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Comments
A faint light shines through some trees, than over a small hill come 10 Mercedes vehicles, in silver, driving two-by-two, with a Red SL55 alone behind then, with a Santa track played in the background.
And that's the commercial?
Should I get the Mapquest for local Benz dealers, or the Milk of Magnesia?
Milk of Amnesia? :sick:
DrFill
Doc, what's with the "hyperbole"?. "50 times more successful" is entirely unrealistic. As we finally agreed yesterday, it is indeed successful... just leave it at that for goodness sakes. You were more credible then. Now you sound... well, you know.
The facts are that Lexus December sales average an increase of 14%. Some other HELC manufacturers also see increases in December, so the extra few percentage points for Lexus aren't ANYTHING like you are suggesting.
Also, for your information, Infiniti has reported a 25% increase in traffic and sales this December, almost twice that of the Lexus average... so before you go rushing for those pom-poms, consider the facts.
TagMan
Doc, BTW, I forgot to compliment you on your clever use of words there on that post. No matter what, it seems you always have your sense of humor, and that's something I appreciate and will always have respect for.
TagMan
When Lexus started this commercial campaign, in 2000, it set a record for best month ever.
And Merc seems to have a problem showing respect, and giving credit when it is due. Especially since Lexus has taught it's peers lessons in advertising, and Mercedes has learned nothing about it in the 17 years class has been in session.
If you listen to Merc, the Lexus commercial has no merit. When in fact his legendary company still can't script 30 seconds worth watching, going back over the last decade or two?
You don't have such issues, to your eternal credit.
I'd ask you which commercial is truly lame, but I wouldn't subject you to the Mercedes commercial. That ain't right!
DrFill
Very little is certain about the BMW diesels that will sell in our continent by 2008 But what is for certain is that BMW will not be using MB Blutec technology and instead they will develop their own urea based technology to scrub nitrogen emissions.
Fortunately for Honda their diesels do not require urea technology since their cars will be able to self-generate enough ammononia to reduce nitrogen to satisfy the new stringent emissions regulations.
Unlike Honda's 2.2L diesels, luxury German diesels will require urea injections. Why? Because unfortunatley larger diesel engines generate a higher level of nitrogen and self-generated ammonia will not be enough to reduce their higher levels of nitrogen. So by necessity urea injections will supplement self-generated ammonia among the German luxury marques.
If Honda introduces diesels with more displacement(V6 engines) then it is almost with certainty that they also will will be using similar urea technology as the Germans.
And I have no problem with the urea system as it is described. Checking the oil level is likely more of a concern, so the urea is no big deal to me. The tank will get topped up at regular maintenance intervals. Big deal. The urea injection system will be fine and those engines will be terrific.
As far as BMW goes, regardless of the publicity or lack thereof, I'll bet serious green that they will indeed have themselves a good diesel competitor.
TagMan
The words of someone who never experienced owning a BMW and never will own a BMW.
I hate spending money and I owned a BMW for eight years with minimum maintenance/repair costs. Houdini I think you are mixing up BMW with Ferrari. Unfortunately BMWs are not as exotic as Ferarris but here is an interesting article about the maintenance/depreciation costs involved with owning a Ferrari 550 Maranello
Ferarri
Likewise! I am very interested in a future diesel. With regular maintenance there will no major urea bladder issues.
So what happens if a owner ignores low urea levels? The new and upcoming diesel Land Rover(I dont know if it will sell on our shores?) will cut the revs and horsepower of its 3.6L engine to a level in which it can self-generate enough ammonia without the assistance of urea injections. Definitely an inconvenience but that inconvenience would be a non-issue if an owner does regular maintenance on his Land Rover.
British car prices make Canadian prices look like bargains and their gas prices are at least double of ours. On top of that if you are in London you end up paying a hefty toll for driving in the city. And good luck finding parking and if you do find parking be prepared to pay an arm and a leg for that priviledge :sick:
If I lived in the UK I would be doing more bicycling and jogging than car driving.
I love how you never, ever have a point that anyone sees and then claim that someone else made it for your. Again, you miss the point. You fall back on sales because your ranting on the LS can no longer be backed up with anything. Reverting back to something as tired as Lexus' sales is just lame. Feel free to talk about sales all you like. Who cares.
The commercial runs because the commercial sells. It's 50 times more successful than anything Mercedes is doing.
Total nonsense to say the least. You're saying that Lexus' lame, pathetic commercials are more successful than Mercedes' because Lexus sells more cars in December than Mercedes does right? Uh...Hello earth to Doc....Lexus sells more than Mercedes does anyway, it isn't because of some shallow commercials.
So when Mercedes comes up with ONE DECENT commercial, this decade, then do a commentary on how lame Lexus commercials are.
Total lack of credibility here Doc. If you think that Lexus' lame commercials with bows tied on top of those unsightly cars are better than Mercedes commercials for the S or CL or the "Race" commercial you must be living on Lexus koolaid. MB Commercials
No one does more forgettable commercials than Mercedes. Let's look up the word "lame" in the dictionary, and place it on the correct ad campaign.
Here is the difference between Lexus and Mercedes. Mercedes doesn't need a commercial to sell their cars, Lexus does. The Mercedes name alone sells their cars and only names that plucked out of the thin air during a Toyota board meeting need the heavier advertising to get their name out there.
If this about Mercedes' commercials being so forgettable were true then Lexus folks like LG wouldn't have clearly stated that MB has done some good ads. Poof, another one-man theory gone. Total and utter BS doc and you know it to try and sit here and say MB has never made a decent or memorable commercial.
If you, and everyone else, are spending this much energy commenting on it, while Lexus is selling BIG with it, you're probably using the wrong word.
You seem to think that just because something is popular that it is great. It is mentioned because the ads are stupid and their air a jillion times a day. Kinda like those head on commercials.
M
M
There is no respect to be given. Lexus December commercials usually show some twit running out to unwrap a huge bow on a new Lexus. Where is the lesson or innovation for others to follow there? Jaguar does the same thing, but it is far more tastefully done. There is absolutely nothing for any brand to learn Lexus' sorry ads. Period.
Again, where is the proof that anyone has even tried to duplicate, mimic, or be like Lexus when it comes to these ads? Where?
A shiny new car with a bow on top of it during the month of December takes absolutely ZERO brain power to come up with. Lexus is supposed to get some type of respect or special mention for this? A joke at best.
If you listen to Merc, the Lexus commercial has no merit. When in fact his legendary company still can't script 30 seconds worth watching, going back over the last decade or two?
Darn right it doesn't. Again, why don't you take a look at the annoying commercials thread on the News the Views side of the house. Plenty of mention about Lexus there December to forget ads, last I checked I saw nothing about Mercedes. Mercedes hasn't had a single ad in 20 years worth anything, only the most jaded Lexus fan would come up with that.
M
Quite often, ads that seem lame are very successful and others that appear to be clever, slick or entertaining are not. But one thing is for sure. Repetition is most instrumental in successful advertising. Toyota/Lexus seems to put a lot into this and on this level it would seem that they are successful.
I don’t like their ads either but I do believe they work due to, if nothing else, the amount of hits. Another thing, the December to Remember campaign is heavily branded at this point and branding is everything in advertising. Also, it has a warm and fuzzy family quality that I would think gets considerable mileage. Warm and fuzzy works.
For the record, I think most car ads are lame, but too often we are merely looking to be entertained by them and the ultimate goal is not entertainment. In any event we really can't compare a company's abilities to make product with their abilities to market and advertise. I guess it's fun to do it, but I'm not sure how far we'll get because I've spent a good part of my life listening to marketers themselves argue about advertising, this after poring over piles of market research. The funniest part is watching them scratch their heads when ads test gangbusters then flop in reality.
I plan on sending a letter off to Sony Corporate requesting if in their next generation of TV's, they can install a filtering device to block certain commercials from being seen when programming key words, such as "Lexus", "December To Remember" and "hybrid"; and which will also be capable of turning up the volume for commercials with key words, "BMW", "Mercedes Benz", "Porsche", "diesel" and "two year lease."
We'll see what happens.
Doc, I would have to agree with Merc here and with a little thought you would too. Lexus sells better than Mercedes in spite of their lame commercials. Must be pretty good cars, eh?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Advertising is persuasive, of course, but something very important needs to be said here, IMO.
There is a difference between MAKING cars and MARKETING cars.
Sometimes they go hand-in-hand, and sometimes they can be independent from one another. For example, cars that are made poorly might be marketed poorly, cars that are made poorly might be marketed well. And, of course, cars that are made well might also be marketed well, and cars that are made well might be marketed poorly.
Given these combination, we can (hopefully) more appropriately see the truth of how they apply to the real world.
It is foolish to apply credit where it doesn't belong or to remove credit where it does. A great car might have a terrible ad campaign, and to suggest that those terrible ads might have anything whatsoever to do with the car or brand of car itself is ludicrous.
Taking credit for the making great cars when there is in fact only great marketing is equally absurd.
So, I hope this helps somehow and that my words of wisdom (or lack thereof) make some sense.
TagMan
I was a young single man when I had made a decent business decision that hit some good paydirt and I was no big investor or anything, and being crazy about cars all my life... I bought a Ferrari. Hah! I was in for a rude awakening alright.
After completing the first maintenance, I got the shock of my life when the bill was thousands of dollars! Usually nowadays there is sufficient paperwork to estimate the likely cost of service before it is done. Back then, I guess that wasn't the case.
Anyway, I met my wife when I owned the car... so she obviously married me for the car... and not my charming good looks (lol) ... but I decided to get rid of the Ferrari. No way I wanted anything to do with that kind of maintenance costs.
As it turns out, she has cost me more a month than that Ferrari ever could have! (And worth it, of course!)
TagMan
Ouch. If I was going to spend that kind of money on a car, I would expect it to be better built than a car costing 1\10 as much, not worse. To date, I think 911s and the Acura NSX are the only exotics that can be driven regularly without $10K a month in repairs. The Lexus GT500 will probably be another car on that list.
Yeah, from you Merc, when your company can't get up to "zero brain power" to come up with it. Didn't have an idea in 2000 and, obviously, still don't. :sick:
Unless you think "Santa tracks" are pure genius.
You danced around my other post, how God-awful and "lame" the current Mercedes ad campaign is. Or am I missing some "brain power", and this is a ad we should see every year?
Please enlighten me, and explain away this current cutting-room material they call a commercial.
DrFill
You now see my point.
Merc can't have it all the way around. The cars are lame, the ads are lame, hybrid is lame, interiors are cheap, no innovation.
Only one problem. Lexus can't build enough of them! Mercedes has been scrambling after Lexus, inside and out, since 1989?
Someday, Merc will have a legitimate explaination for that.
DrFill
I love those things myself. Except I can live without big SUVs or pick ups. Oh well at least the burly and hairy Grizzly Adam-types pick smooth and soft Lexuses instead. :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I actually like the MB Santa's Sleigh commercial. And regarding the Lexus "Bow" commercials, these are far from original. Lexus may have started 'em in 2000, but I'm fairly sure VW was doing the same thing in the 60s or 70s. And I will believe that they are effective as they reinforce the fantasy of Santa leaving a new car under the tree...
In fact, after seeing the VW ads oh so long ago, come Christmas morn the first place I would go is to the front window to see if Santa had fulfilled my dream. Still do, still waiting. Although, in '02 Santa did deliver a shiny white RX300 to my wife. Thanks, Santa. Wasn't I good, too??? Santa's shiny red SL would certainly make up for a lifetime of dissapointing views from that front window...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
And I would like to pre-empt anyone from accusing me of writing this review. Honest it wasn't me that wrote this. In fact it was a very fine fellow by the name of Jay Shoemaker that wrote this very engaging and insightful review below.
Lexus LS460 Review
Driving a Mercedes E63 AMG just prior to testing the Lexus LS 460 was a big mistake. The German and Japanese machines define the opposite poles of the luxury sedan spectrum. The E63 is for driving enthusiasts. The LS 460 is for people who hate cars.
At first glance, the LS 460 has finally stopped cribbing its design cues from Mercedes– and started cribbing from the BMW 7 Series. In the flesh, it’s clear that Lexus has turned inwards for inspiration. As I patrolled my dealer’s lot to scan color variations, I couldn’t distinguish an ES from an LS. In fact, the Japanese brand’s “L-finesse” design philosophy Lacks-finesse across the entire model range. There are no exterior character lines worth mentioning. I like the way the LS’ exhaust pipes integrate into the rear valence. And, um that’s it.
This deeply conservative (not to say bland) approach carries over into the interior, which seems carefully designed to avoid offense. While you can’t fault the LS 460's ergonomics or the luster of its wood accents, the $61k-and-up car's cabin comes off just a little bit, well, cheap. The buttons are made from plastic that Audi wouldn't use for the A8's trunk release. And Lexus can buff that leather as much as it wants; it still feels like it came out of a Camry. Of course, the LS 460 boats— I mean boasts every luxury car toy on earth, including intuitive parking assist (Danger Will Robinson!) and power everything you can imagine (and much you can’t or wouldn’t).
Firing-up the LS’ 4.6-liter V8 is about as aurally exciting as switching on a pool heater– which is fair enough. The driving experience is a bit like swimming in warm water. Helming the LS, I thought I'd become an automotive quadriplegic; my mind was operating the vehicle rather than my extremities. I had no sensation whatsoever from the steering wheel, throttle or brakes. Every control involved with the vehicle’s operation lay just within the range of human perception.
The LS 460’s electronic brakes were designed for women wearing high heels; the slightest touch of a stiletto brings the car to a complete stop. Steering feel isn’t. There's only one way to know the slushbox is changing gears: watch the tacho needle bouncing gently up and down. Unless you depress the throttle at 45mph. Then there's an unacceptable hesitation as the transmission rows through a few gear changes before finding the meaty part of the engine’s torque range. Remind me again why Lexus needs an eight speed transmission? Oh yes; Mercedes has a seven speed.
The LS 460’s handling reminded me of a 10-month old Golden Retriever puppy: affectionate but clumsy. Turn-in is irrelevant. You can’t feel the car settling into a corner and you only realize that you are exceeding the vehicle’s limits when the door’s angle of attack relative to the road exceeds 15 degrees, and the traction control wrests control (you mean I was driving?) away from the driver.
Lexus claims the LS 460 wafts from zero to 60 in 5.4 seconds. Given 380 horsepower and 367 lb. ft. of torque in a 4244 pound luxobarge, that sounds about right. But it felt a lot slower. It could be the complete lack of sensual feedback or the effects of that pesky E63 again. Anyway, the LS 460 desperately needs a sport package. Alas, none is available. I suspect Lexus knows its target audience will be more impressed with (though not concerned about) the sedan's extraordinary 21 city and 27 highway miles per gallon.
I last drove an LS in 1990. Compared to the competition over at Mercedes and BMW, the LS was a breath of fresh air: bargain-priced and elegantly engineered. I almost bought one. OK, I’m trying to impress you with my open-mindedness. And it's true: I can see the virtue of a machine that functions without any apparent effort from man or machine. But I struggled not to giggle at the LS 460’s “Luxury Car for Dummies” perfection. If Lexus added an in-dash popcorn maker, I’d find more reason to buy this mobile entertainment lounge. But nowhere near enough. :lemon:
The only thing I disagree with is his rather ridiculous statement that the LS460 is for people who hate cars.
I would change that to the LS460 is for people who know nothing about cars and couldn't care less.
My question is how does Lexus justify charging so much for a vehicle which offers so little?
TagMan
OK Howard I do agree his statement above is a bit extreme. But other than that one very extreme sentence the rest of his review appears to be fairly balanced, objective and unbiased
2)This review seems to target the same lengthy list of the LS460's weaknesses as most of the other reviews, however the writing style seemed a bit too harsh and sarcastic, IMO.
Tagman,
I am almost hundred percent convinced that this reviewer must of had a heated dispute about that MEGA BOW Lexus Ad with one of our forum members just before test driving the LS.
I would like to see a new December to Remember commercial where when confronted with a new LS460 topped by a red ribbon, the person is shown pouting and says, "Well, I really was kind of expecting a Longines."
I've noticed something unusual over there lately. There are lots of posts trying to determine who now writes the proper reviews of the LS... and interestingly, they are discrediting all those magazines and reviewers that criticize the LS, and giving high marks to those reviewers and magazines that like the LS.
Is "selective criticism" a new terminology for the 21st century?
Oh well, I guess some hear what some want to hear...but I still believe there is always more than one side to a story.
TagMan
link title
I gave this little present to the LS forum. It ought to pump them up for a while.
TagMan
I guess we know the true author of that insipid piece.
As we segui from MT reviews (highly positive, and poignant), to obscure footnotes (both good and bad), let us review.
I'm making a list, and checking it twice:
The New LS is:
A poor value
Ugly
Lame
Slow
Deceitful
Poor handling
Poor steering
Has cheap buttons
Has small foot space
Has dumb owners
Has ignorant owners
Is hateable
Has many weaknesses
Anyone else wanna call Babe Ruth fat? Babe Zaharias crude? Ali a loudmouth?
You guys sound like a bunch of Audi engineers. All steak, no sizzle. Our car is better that theirs! Why can't we be Lexus, and they sit here and be scrubs! :mad:
Haters never win. At the end of the day, the customer is always right.
You guys get your quality up, make about 5 years worth of quality ads. Get people to come back for their second car. Win a few hundred awards. Sell customers, not journalists. Then maybe you can be a Lexus! :surprise:
Maybe.
I guess it would be a bad time to bring up another EASY Lexus win in the HELM division, customer retention.
If Lexus is wrong, I don't wanna be right!
Lexus owners sleep the sleep of the righteous.
So do Lexus-backers! Good night.
And I want some real jealousy tomorrow, but make it sizzle! I want to feel the envy, the total exasperation at Lexus' ascention.
Pretend it's 1936 in Munich, and you see Jesse Owens winning race after race, or something.
I believe in you guys, so don't let me down.
DrFill
There are bound to be different opinions. But the criticisms are far from just being thrown at the LS.
You should hear the crazy stuff posted about BMW's recently. Heck, if I were to believe that hyperbole stuff, I'd expect every single part of a BMW to completely fall apart (except for the engine, if it's a diesel!) in only 3 years. The S-Class has been called a lemon, and the Audi has been called a loser, and the junk goes on and on.
Perhaps I should research some of YOUR wonderful remarks over the last year?
Still think you deserve a more righteous sleep, eh? I don't think so.
TagMan
link title
TagMan
A car that appears "slow" given its 5.4 seconds 0-60 mph time.
Do you think most of the reviewers have conspired to trash the LS460?
As illogical as saying BMWs fall apart in 3 years.
UK pricing is much higher because of the tax imposed by the govt.
Currenty standard XC90 in US is starting below $40K, So it doesn't make sense to price the Executive edition more than twice the standard edition. But look at the Porsche Cayenne, the standard edition also starts around $40K, but the Cayenne Turbo S is about $100K. Boy that's a bit on the extreme just for a different engine plus a few bells & whistles but same body style. My guess is the XC90 Executive will starts between $60K-$70K
You danced around my other post, how God-awful and "lame" the current Mercedes ad campaign is. Or am I missing some "brain power", and this is a ad we should see every year?
Yeah sure, and you've continually danced around taking a look into that thread I've mentioned 3-4 times already to see if Lexus is mentioned as having some of the worst Dec commercials going. I'm far from the only one that thinks Lexus' Dec ads are pathetic.
M
Again, you mixed me up with someone else. Where did I say that a Lexus had a cheap interior? Where? Apparently you've never read anything I've ever posted about the TOL or an auto show concerning Lexus. Have stated that their interior designs are no different from a top line Toyota's design, not that they were cheaply made material wise. Big difference.
Where did I say that hybrids are lame Doc? When and where? The only thing I've ever said about Lexus hybrids is that they aren't all that and that the GS450h in particular hasn't set the world/segment on fire like some used to say it would.
Please stop putting words in my posts. Oh hell yeah I've said that Lexus doesn't innovate squat and that they don't drive or look like anything (IS350 excluded), but at no point did I say that they had cheap interiors or that hybrids are lame. Ccould you at least get the charges correct beforehand?
Only one problem. Lexus can't build enough of them! Mercedes has been scrambling after Lexus, inside and out, since 1989?
Funny, they surely have been able to build enough GS and SC models. They surely can build enough GX and LX models too unless declining sales mean increased demand in your world. Keep hyping it up like every Lexus is in hot demand and sold out, it is specious rhetoric at its best.
M
Intersting, but Lexus is supposed to get some type of medal for this. Jaguar does the same thing, but in a much more tasteful way.
M
That said, this review does go a little overboard. For one why is a car like the LS being compared to a E63 AMG?
I agree with the overall opinion of the automotive press that the LS460 isn't anywhere near the event relative to the current competition that the 1990 model was, but this review is a little too precious.
M
LOL, you are right. This article couldn't have been written by you, only you. It looks like a masterpiece by Tag, HP, YOU and some other Lex haters.
Btw, I still don't get the complaints about the LS not being a bargain any longer :confuse: Given that the price range has expanded quite a bit, but the regular LS can still be had in the mid USD 60's. For me, this car is quieter than the S class, or BMW 7; just as quick when needed; and this what this class of cars is about.
Why don't the folks who take issue with certain points in the review by Mr. Shoemaker post some arguments against the specific points he makes?
Instead we get, "It looks like a masterpiece written by Tag, HP, YOU (Dewey) and some other Lex haters."
Can't you refute anything he wrote?
Everytime I poke my head into a Lexus forum just to have a very friendly and cordial chat it always ends up feeling like I poked my head into a gas oven :sick:
this is getting a bit too serious now. But unfortunately you better prepare yourself for that brochure-diet you vowed to go on when a new MB S convertible is introduced.
I know you go on an annual Detroit pilgrimage during January and you will be able to see it with your own eyes next month according to Automotive News Report.
Which brings me to the important second matter. Our BMW 5 vs MB E sales bet for 2006. Oh what a shame this one bet was a gentlemens' bet. Next time we make a bet whoever loses will have to eat a hardcopy of War and Peace. :P
GS did you say the words bargain? From an American I understand what those words mean. But from a Canadain who is faced with a 87K CDN$ LS460 SWB MSRP I have not a clue how you can those words without a tinge of sarcasm :confuse: