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Comments
Glad you mentioned it because this has been festering with me. It’s amazing how the Carrera is evolving toward techno-luxury sport and forsaking the visceral, elemental attraction of the sports car. It has passed a threshold that I am willing to accept. I went shopping for a 911 at the end of the year and I finally got to drive a couple of 997 setups with and without PASM, both C2 and C2S and was thoroughly let down. I haven’t driven a GT3 yet but I think this might be where one has to go to get the characteristics of the 911 as we once knew it.
Equally disappointing is the recognition the 911 still gets in the press. They allude to its refinement but the writers seem reluctant to be overly critical which is testament, I think, to the 911 icon and its racing success in previous years. Then again, it still sprints, darts and wails like hardly any other.
However, it might be an older 911 for me and I have yet to decide which way I want to go. As far as I’m concerned, a sports car must rattle one’s teeth and have uncompromising feedback from the road. What with active steering, the level of power assist in the steering, the electronic damping of the suspension which is necessary to compensate for these low-profile tires, there’s a disconnect with this 997. The mechanical damping in the non-PASM version has also been softened, courtesy of this low-profile bling scourge.
After following Porsche and driving many of them since my first ride in one in the 70s, I never thought I would come to the day when I wouldn’t want a new Carrera. I am willing to give it more test drives, especially if they can give me a loaner, but I really think this day has come. And to think I was pretty ready to buy. It just felt too good getting back into my 986, feeling my teeth rattle and having every road undulation speak to me. I certainly didn’t feel this way after driving a 996 loaner. I was reluctant to give it up.
First BMW succumbs to the lure of technology with all of its illusions, and now this. What a shame in my opinion.
M
Interestingly, the IS-F looks to be substantially slower 0-60 than the hybrid FT-HS described here.
The side scoops are very fast and furious looking.
Now the LF-A is really shaping up, there is some real potential there. It looks really slick and once the details are finalized for production they could really be on to something.
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Wow, I absolutely hate it. The IS350 is a good looking car, this is not. It reminds me of the Volvo S60R which also has all of that unnecessary body kit junk to disguise the fact that its not that good. Why couldn't they take a page from the S4 or M3? Flare the fenders a bit, darken the headlamps, and give it some mean looking wheels. Leave the rest alone. Let the performance speak for itself.
What were they thinking with those vertical stacked exhausts? Absolutely hideous. At least that part can be changed relatively easily.
Yep, a '93.
I had a '91 560 SEL classic. Damn I miss that car.
Wow you had an early W140, a Panzer.
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Sure the GT3 will rattle you silly, but I would never want that on a regular basis. I tried that with the Lotus Elise, all the while thinking the Porsche was too soft, but eventually I got realistic again. The PASM sport setting is more than adequate to get anyone's adrenaline rushing... and on a regular basis to boot.
TagMan
Dare I say there is some Porsche or Aston-Martin (gulp!) in it. Just like I said when the original concept was shown, the proportions are right, the only thing that needs work is the front snout. I actually like the rear cooling ducts. Now come on Lexus don't muck up this when production time comes!
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The hood bulge is no doubt because of the Euro pedestrian regs, but it tells me that Lexus didn't initially plan on a V8 for the IS.
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I am wondering where they'll price it. I think just over 100k would be a smart way to do it, if they want to sell reasonable volumes.
Good question. I think you're right, somewhere in the 911 C4S\Turbo\V8 Vantage level would work. They definitely won't pull any buyers away from a Gallardo or F430.
True.
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The Acura has some interesting lines too, but the Lexus is much closer to production. Then there is the Lexus interior compared to an "Acura".
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Ah, but I wonder who's going to do the suspension tuning for Acura. Ayrton Senna did the last one. Lexus isn't exactly known for world class suspensions.
I have my work cut out seeking older Porsches. The ones that are at the top of my list are the 993 Turbo and 993 C2S. I could also see myself going back to the 80s and working myself forward, perhaps a different one each year.
Bottom line, Tag, the new Porsches are different, very different. Too bad because it's still one of the best-looking vehicles around and they stayed the course with styling. I’m glad you like yours and hope your back is better. I really think I’ve reached my tolerance threshold with technology one-upsmanship among the manufacturers. At least I’m not one of those who say the 356 was the last real Porsche.
;-)
That's a very big statement. In the real world it's a two-edged sword. On the one hand there are the benefits, but on the other, it explains why guys like me would try the Lotus Elise or Exige. You are an enthusiast no doubt, a purist at heart.. and that's OK in my book.
At the end of the day, we can only choose from what is available in the marketplace, and pray that something out there satisfies most of our driving preferences.
Hpowders gets the performance and seating capacity and room for luggage out of his 5-Series. Blkhemi gets a car for every day of the week or every mood he's in. Some of us get a combination of luxury sedan and sports car and perhaps an SUV to accomplish all our needs.
I'm hopeful that you will find the "right" vehicle for your sports car need, without too much compromise.
Truth be told, there are days I miss that Lotus in a certain sense, because as great as this Carrera S is, the Lotus was like a laser shot to the senses. Total and pure exhileration.
Now, if only there was a way to transform the Porsche into the Lotus once or twice a week, because on the other five or six days it is a perfect 10. See what I mean?
Good luck with your quest.
TagMan
With regards to the IS-F... no thanks, thumbs down, IMO. It will be interesting to see the comparisons to the 3-Series however.
BTW, that Toyota FT-HS hybrid sports car in the $30K range could be a real winner.
TagMan
That set of statements may have been valid at some historical time on some specific (non-HELC) models, just like "buying usually work out better than lease," but not at all valid at current time on some (or the majority of)specific models from that particular mfr that are the purview of this forum.
The auto industry as a whole sees less than 10-20% of cars going off the lot as leases; however, BMW and MB see over 60% of their cars going off the lot as leases. That phenomenom alone should tell us that BMW and MB are subsidizing leases far more than the rest of the industry on average. The overwhelming majority of BMW's and MB's are returned at lease end. That alone should tell us that there is a significant gap between lease residual vs. how much the used car is actually worth when the private owner tries to sell it at that time. Either that, or BMW/MB drivers have terrible financial sense. I tend to have more faith in BMW and MB drivers's ability in optimizing their own finances. Large number of independent decision makers tend to reflect the underlying cost/benefit very well, just like a disproportionate ratio of the same result is a good indicator of the coin or dice being loaded.
BMW 7 series, which is the purview of this forum, never had good resale value. BMW 3 series historically had good resale because they were hardly discounted until the last few months of previous model runs; that is, a few months out of a typical 72-month model run; BMW has 6-year model cycles. That was a very unique market situation. E90 changed all that. E90 has not been able to maintain selling average close to MSRP for even the entire first model year. Discounting started as little as 6-9 months after E90 was introduced. The lease residuals have so far pretended it's still the good old days. The lease residuals on 7 and 5 series don't even jive with historical realities. It's going by some kind of historical BMW fleet average, which was heavily skewed by the historical high resale of previous generations of 3-series because 3-series outsell 5 and 7 combined, several times over.
By the way for everyone's benefit, this is the problem with "I'll make one more comment and then I won't say anything else." Someone wants to respond to that with "one more commment" then there's a reply with just "one more comment" to that.
That's why I have to draw a line in the sand. And I'm doing that here. No more leasing debates here.
:shades:
Honda is an engineering/racing company, Toyota is a manufacturing company.
Obviously they both play in the other sand box, but, on tradition, I'll take the Acura, and go with their racing heritage to get it right.
FWIW, I'll go with Lexus to get a barkocruiser.
All of this could blow up in my face of course.
Actually, they'll probably both do some things right, and be pretty close.
Still, my nod goes to the Acura for the traditional enthusiast. [They'll probably offer a proper stick]
And the Lexus gets the nod for the "recent lottery enthusiast"
Never thought about it that way, but what you state is bascially true. Of course they both do engineering and manufacturing, but they both have a slant in either of those respective areas.
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That car, on average, only saw maybe 6k miles a year, WOW!
This comes as the guy who wants to buy the S600 is really ready to buy it. He's sweeten the deal by 2k if I can get out of it by the beginning of next week.
Jaguar has the greystone metallic XKR that I want in stock. So does MB and Porsche, altho Porsche's Turbo convertible was very exhilarating today in it's Super Red paint. The blistering performance also left my eyes with a matching hue of red. And also, there was an '06 SL65 in the showroom in the usual silver hue for "only" $129k. Very tempting folks.
Very close gang, very close.
Why not take the S4 or M3 approach to it all? Give it just a little dash of appeal on the outside and all glitz and glamour under the hood and underside of the car.
TagMan
All valid points, but there is something more alluring about the Lexus to me at this point.
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blkhemi, how's the wife enjoying the S8?
Also, how can you expect me to do my job of wishing I was your prodigal son, when you have stopped talking about the Aston?
In order for me to properly continue in this fantasy land, I'm going to have to insist that the Aston be reconsidered.
Back to merc, and design. Being such a design guy, wouldn't the Aston be your first choice for blkhemi?
LG, what do you think of the Jag concept?
Yeah I find it nearly impossible to get with an ugly or dull looking car.
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I knew it was only a matter of time before these awards started piling up. This is probably the finest automobile ever built, by far. Of course this is just my opinion, but my opinion is extremely important to me.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
TagMan
Well for the first time in years the E has an optional sports packace that is more than just cosmetics so that is what they've been harping about. It is also a no-cost option so most of the 07' E's I've seen have it.
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A deserving award for a very respected automobile