High End Luxury Cars

copyrightatty · July 2007

You figure the AMGs have been run a little hard? I was afraid of that. I did find a 2002 S430 with only 11,000 miles on it for a reasonable amount, above my budget but who can beat a car that has basically been garaged for 5 years.

anthonyp · July 2007

Get it checked out---then that sounds like a good operatunity....I noticed you had a suv....so this could just be the special car for special events...Of course I bet the clients you get or have really want you for your knowledge--so enjoy the car, as you will speak for yourself

Tony

knowspinzone · July 2007

I would definitely avoid the E55 AMG. First of all you don't need that kind of performance for your intended use (unless you want to scare your clients in signing with you, LOL!). Plus the repairs and maintainence on that will likely be big bucks.

I noticed that neither a Lexus LS430 nor an Infiniti Q45 are not on your list. For your intended use I think these would be perfect. They are luxury cars, low maintainence, and least likely to breakdown with your clients in the car!

Let us know what you settle on.

500lbman · September 2007

I sell M-B's for a living. I would say avoid the '01-'02 S-Class. It has been a dog of a vehicle, as well as the '00-'03 E-Class. The new cars are MUCH better in the reliability and performance departments. The new S-class is a dream car! The '07 E-Class is a wonderful car that will be reliable for years to come. M-B has done a lot to combat the "not reliable" reputation of the brand. As a used car, the only Lexus I would even consider is the LS430. It is a quiet car with lots of space and would be great for carrying clients or going on trips. The ES and GS are rebadged Toyotas. Lexus makes a good car, quiet and comfortable and affordable. However, the new S-class STOMPS the new LS460L. Lexus is very good at loading their cars with features to combat other car makers, but the drive of a Lexus cannot compare to the drive of a M-B.

I would not even consider an Infiniti. We get them in all the time as preowned cars and I think they are cheap and plasticky, and the interiors wear down faster than other cars. There is no reason to consider the M35 unless you just want a luxury badge. The Nissan Maxima is the same car.

Anyway, if you want a good pre-owned car for your needs, I would say Lexus LS430. If you are willing to step up a little go for the newer M-B's, they are great cars.

toyota2lexus · September 2007

I sold and managed at a Toyota store for over twenty years, things changed at the old place and I now sell Lexus. Only because I am very familiar with both lines I got to respond to your post and take issue with you.

Your comments ---

"As a used car, the only Lexus I would even consider is the LS430. It is a quiet car with lots of space and would be great for carrying clients or going on trips. The ES and GS are rebadged Toyotas. Lexus makes a good car, quiet and comfortable and affordable. However, the new S-class STOMPS the new LS460L. Lexus is very good at loading their cars with features to combat other car makers, but the drive of a Lexus cannot compare to the drive of a M-B."

are very misleading, you either have been sniffing the tailpipes for too long around the dealership or believe all the horse hockey that the Mercedes Corporate Propaganda Machine has been feeding you.

While there are many similarities between the Camry V6 XLE and the Lexus ES in terms of platform, performance and features the cars are not "rebadged" Toyotas.

The majority of Camry's are built in the United States, all Lexus except for the RX which is assembled in Canada are built in Japan. The fit and finish of the Lexus meets a higher standard, the overall noise, vibration and harshness of ride is less, the warranties are longer, servicing is called for at much less frequent intervals, Lexus retains a greater portion of it's value at resale and a Lexus demo is provided free of charge for all service.

There is no car in the Toyota selection that shares the Lexus GS all wheel drive performance or available V8 engine. It can hardly be called a rebadged Toyota.

Obviously you've been standing outside in the sun for too long without a hat and are beginning to see things if you really believe that the new S class stomps the LS 460L or LS 460

The new LS series has an 8 speed transmission - MB only 7, the car retails for $15K less, produces 380 HP from a 4.6L engine as opposed to 382 HP from a 5.5L, has more interior space and more trunk space, I believe in many respects that the Lexus is a superior car, I hardly think that the S class stomps the LS.

Even the 12 cylinder S600 takes second place to the LS 600h, the hybrid motor smokes the S600, has a faster 0 to 60, offers more interior space, has a longer warranty and retails for about $25K less.

Mercedes enjoyed a reputation for years as building the best large luxury sedans in the market, with the introduction of the new LS series Lexus has climbed on top of the pedestal, you just can't beat the Japanese for innovation and quality.

lexusguy · September 2007

There is no reason to consider the M35 unless you just want a luxury badge. The Nissan Maxima is the same car.

Actually, having driven every single one of the mid-lux cars currently on sale, I can say that the Infiniti M easily ranks among the best. It thoroughly trounces the RL and the GS, and it beats the rapidly aging E-class, both in performance and technology. It takes a BMW 5 to outperform the M.

The "they are a rebadged Toyota\Nissan" is a tired, stale and cheap argument from the entrenched trying to defend their turf. It's no different than saying the E-class is a rebadged Chrysler 300.

cdnpinhead · September 2007

". . .no reason to consider the M35 unless you just want a luxury badge. The Nissan Maxima is the same car."

Well, so long as you pay no attention to which pair of wheels drives the car, or what the fore/aft weight distribution on said wheels is, or any of a number of other things, you're exactly 100% correct.

If you do, you're not. Say after me: "RWD is different from FWD."

I knew you could.

topspin628 · September 2007

I have become smitten with the XJ as I find it an interesting departure from my current LS430.
I've narrowed the field down to the Jag, the 7 series or if I want to go sport, the BMW 535.
I'm am a little unsure of the Jag, never having owned one before. I drive about 15K per year for work and do need reliable comfortable transportation so it won't be a garage queen.
Any experience with it?
By the way, I recently tested the LS460 and the MB S 550 back to back for about 20-30 minutes each. The MB is a heavier car with a very smooth ride. The LS feels lighter in every way but is also smooth and quiet. I know that MB had some quality issues with the last S Class but I prefer the way it drove over the new one. This one felt a bit ponderous to me but it does exude class and quality. The interior is of a very high quality but in a "serious" almost austere way. I'm sure it will last forever. The LS460 is a half notch up in all departments from my LS 430 but to me it is very much the "same" car from a driving perspective. The salesman must have said ten times that "it's a completely different car in every way than the LS 430". They must be trained in that "mantra". Maybe because the average guy who has been used to leasing LS's for 800-900 per month for the last 10 years is suddenly faced with a 1250-1300 per month car.
Yikes! And guys, it really feels very similar, not that it's a bad thing.

pat · September 2007

Here's the link: touringchef, "Audi A8: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #55, 16 Sep 2007 10:15 am.

stkntraffic · September 2007

Word.

You forgot to mention the Maxima is also the most singularly fugly car on the road today. I had an '02 6-speed, but they lost me on buying a new one when they came out with the new styling and CVT.

I love the Infiniti M-series... M45 in particular.

lexusguy · September 2007

You forgot to mention the Maxima is also the most singularly fugly car on the road today. I had an '02 6-speed, but they lost me on buying a new one when they came out with the new styling and CVT.

I agree, although the Maxima really lost its way years earlier when they went to a beam axle for the sake of rear seat room. So much for the "four door sports car".

Karen_S · September 2007

A reporter from a national newspaper is hoping to talk to consumers who have been shopping for a European vehicle (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Audi or others) and have found them to be more expensive because of the Euro exchange rates. Please reply to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Monday, October 1, 2007 with your daytime contact info.

houdini1 · October 2007

In CR's latest reliability ratings Mercedes Benz has plummeted to the bottom.

The only Mercedes with an above average rating is the lowly C class. That means their luxury cars are really, really unreliable. As a result their sales have suffered. I am surprised that they sell anything above the C class.

This is unacceptable and inexcusable for an auto maker that was once known for good build quality and reliability.

My take is that they are desperately trying to hold onto their profit margins by scrimping on quality. In their frantic efforts to compete with Lexus they have, indeed, thrown the baby out with the bath water!

stkntraffic · October 2007

I don't have a dog in this fight, since Mercedes doesn't really appeal to me anyway, but I would take what CR says with a grain of salt. Their testing and rating methods have come into question in the past. Their ratings are based on the responses to member surveys, not necessarily a stringent quantitative methodology.

houdini1 · October 2007

I see your point and agree with it somewhat. I have owned more than one Mercedes in the past and they have been OK. But when CR and Wards both put them near the bottom there has to be some truth there.

The problem I have with CR is how do they know their respondents are being truthful? For instance, the Prius was rated #1 in reliability but I have heard of many, many problems with that particular car. I have a tough time with that one.

cdnpinhead · October 2007

". . .the Prius was rated #1 in reliability. . ."

Oh, ye of little faith.

You have to remember that a hybrid is a "lifestyle statement" and that CR is pimping big time for those who will make one.

Their highly-regarded (by the brain-dead) reliability studies come from a self-selected cohort. The self-righteous among them who have had trouble with their hybrid vehicles would rather spend time with Rush Limbaugh (in person) than report trouble. They're silent, and CR continues to pimp the green agenda. Oh boy.

Calming down a bit, it's important to remember that the CR reliability stuff comes from only those who choose to respond to a tedious survey form that takes quite awhile to complete. Unless you have a message to send, I'm guessing you're going to blow it off.

Go figure.

houdini1 · October 2007

Lol. Just what I was trying to say but you said it much better than I could!

houdini1 · October 2007

In the category, "Sports/Sporty cars" there were 12 entries.
The "sporty" Volkswagen GTI came in dead last, number 12! Right behind the Hyundai Tiburon! Amazing, but not really surprising I guess.

elias · October 2007

1/4-ton-dude, you say the Maxima and the M35 are the same car and that makes me wonder if you are engaging in posterior speech egress.
Isn't it true that M35 is RWD and Maxima is FWD? so right off the bat don't we see that they are very different cars, not the same at all? thank you.

houdini1 · October 2007

Lol! Infiniti used to have the I30 but it has been dropped. It was pretty much a re-badged Maxima... but nothing like the M35.

theinric · December 2007

Why would you choose a Mercedes instead of a BMW as your luxury car of choice? I own a Mercedes CLS500 and chose it over a BMW but am interested in why others may have made a similar decision.

benznessman · December 2007

The level of comfort in a Mercedes for me, surpasses that of the BMW. I have a Mercedes 420sel that I've had the past three years and not once at high speeds was i uncomfortable it handles well and i have very little reason to think of buying a new car. But if i had to think of a reason to buy a new car it would be because of how hard it is to find small parts replacement badging etc. And yes i looked at BMW as well before i bought my mercedes and i just couldn't see my self driving a BMW as old as my Mercedes and keeping it as long as i have my Mercedes. Be sure to open your Mercedes up to at least 120mph other wise it would have been a complete waist to have made that purchase!

houdini1 · December 2007

I have owned a couple of MBs and a BMW in the past and I much prefer the MB simply because I felt they were built better, looked better, drove better, and were more reliable.

benznessman · December 2007

I agree. The design of MB vehicles are timeless, not to mention after the last of a model rolls off the assembly line they instantly begin to increase in value and its given the designation of being a classic, trust me on this my benz is 21 going on 22 years old. I paid $700 for it a few years ago when it was worth $3000 and i can sell right now for $10K. :shades:

bmlexus · December 2007

seems to me every1 is favoring the mb.

But i am sure many will surely have hesitations buying a mb after reading these messages,

My dad had owned a couple of mbs in the past he says its the best cars through could never found out the reliability because of accidents :sick:

He still says its the best luxury cars,

But no offend guys i am seriously a bmw fan, specially the x5.

theinric · December 2007

Yeah, you know what I found in doing my research? That there's an ageist component to the demographics of MBZ afficionados, which is really weird to me. According to some of those surveyed, they thought MBZ "was for old people." I responded, "well maybe it's because they last so long!" I plan to keep my 2006 CLS500 for over 120,000 miles, a) because I drive ALOT and the trade in value will probably be negligible after 5 years; b) it is a GREAT, SEXY car. Thanks for your responses! I got a great review on my speech and your feedback was motiviating

.

moxie · December 2007

Lexusguy, what do you mean by "beam axle" ? The Nissan website lists the Maxima as having "independent strut-type" front suspension and "multi-link independent" rear suspension.

Regards.

benznessman · December 2007

MB is not always for the older people, i'm 19 and have owned my benz for years. And dont bother selling your CLS500 thats a modelthat MB no longer makes and in 15-16 years it will be worth far more than you think. Oh, I did NOT by my MB as a status symbol either.

lexusguy · December 2007

Lexusguy, what do you mean by "beam axle" ? The Nissan website lists the Maxima as having "independent strut-type" front suspension and "multi-link independent" rear suspension.

Thats for the current model. The Maxima started out life having an IRS. They changed it to a live axle in order to increase rear seat room I think two generations ago ('97?). The current car switched back to an independent setup.

gmannj · December 2007

I am interested in getting some perspectives on a lease for a 2008 MB S550 4Matic. The MSRP of the car is $98, 950, and has the premium III package. The lease specifics are: 39 month lease with 15K per year, with a MF of 3.00, and a $5k down payment. The residual is $49, 801. The monthly payment works out to be $1,695 per month. Is this a good deal? Thanks for the help!

pat · December 2007

Looks like you found the best place for this question gmannj, "Mercedes-Benz S-Class Lease Questions" #81, 12 Dec 2007 10:22 am.

Good luck - let us know how it works out for you.

michmport · January 2008

This forum was helpful in my recent purchase of an Audi A8L.

The car currently has 45,500 miles on it. I purchased it for $32,000.

The dealer wants to sell me an extended warranty for $4988\ 4 yrs or 50K additional miles.

does it make any sense to buy the warranty or should I just invest the money and pay for the repairs myself.

stkntraffic · January 2008

Don't know if this is helpful or not, but I work with a guy who's got an A6. I think he bought it new a few years ago, but I know he also got the extended warranty. He says it saved his bacon a few times already. Your A8 may be different, but he told me when he had transmission problems, the dealer just put in a new tranny to the tune of $5K+. He said they don't even have tools to take apart the transmission, they just replace the whole thing if anything goes bad. Without the warranty, he would have been sunk. Good luck, maybe my coworker just had a lemon.

lexusguy · January 2008

does it make any sense to buy the warranty or should I just invest the money and pay for the repairs myself.

I would suggest going for the extended warranty. I know a few people with A8s. When things go wrong on those cars, they go very wrong, and will cost more than the price of that warranty to fix.

pjsent · April 2008

I am seriously considering starting a "limousine" / ground transportation service company. Want to provide customer base with something which is a cut above the DTS / Town Car sort of a vehicle. Candidate cars I am considering would be: A8L, LS460L, S-class. Would appreciate comments from operators who have practical experience using these vehicles in a commercial environment. Thanks for your insights.

lexusguy · April 2008

In terms of luxury offered to back seat passengers, I would suggest the LS460L or a Jag XJ VP. The LS is also likely to be the most reliable and have the lowest maintenance costs long term.

pjsent · April 2008

The LS is also likely to be the most reliable and have the lowest maintenance costs long term.
Completely agree. Toyota reliability is not to be scoffed at, based on experience. Would need to look at interior specs on Jaguar. My initial impression was: beautiful machine, but don't have many customers willing to ride further than 1/4 mile with their knees tucked up under their chin.

houdini1 · June 2008

Sometime in the next few months I will be buying a new car. Right now my candidates are: 1 or 2 year old LS 430 or 460, Acura RL, and though I know little about it there is something about the Hyundai Genesis that fascinates me.

Anyone have any thoughts on these cars?

lexusguy · June 2008

Sometime in the next few months I will be buying a new car. Right now my candidates are: 1 or 2 year old LS 430 or 460, Acura RL, and though I know little about it there is something about the Hyundai Genesis that fascinates me.

The best year to get for an LS430 is a 2004. If you're looking in the full size lux class, I think the Acura RL would probably be too small. It's really cramped compared to an LS, and also just not a great car. The A6 and M are both more comfortable, more spacious, and much better to drive. I would suggest considering a certified used Jaguar XJ, possibly a VP depending on how much room you want in the back. As for the Genesis, I think I'd rather have the real thing (LS460) than the imitation.

houdini1 · June 2008

I respect your opinions but there is just something about the RL that I like. I have owned several Acuras in the past with no disappointments.

The LS is at the top of my list and I will reserve judgment on the Genesis until I can drive one. The dealership is the problem there.

bmlexus · June 2008

The LS is at the top of my list and I will reserve judgment on the Genesis until I can drive one. The dealership is the problem there

With the LS you will probably be happy for a long long time.

houdini1 · June 2008

Thanks bmlexus. The LS is probably what I will end up with.

houdini1 · June 2008

I notice that on another board you are seriously considering buying an S6. My question is have you driven one of them and for any extended period of time? If so, what are the upsides and the downsides? Your impressions of course.

In a recent comparison on Edmunds, it was noted that the A6 was extremely uncomfortable and that "the ride could not get much worse". This was an A6 but I would imagine that the S6's ride would be even more harsh.

The A6 tied for 3rd (last) with Merc, behind the XF and BMW.

lexusguy · June 2008

In a recent comparison on Edmunds, it was noted that the A6 was extremely uncomfortable and that "the ride could not get much worse". This was an A6 but I would imagine that the S6's ride would be even more harsh.

When Edmunds declared the Lexus GS430 "Japan's best sports sedan", their comparison tests lost all credibility with me. That said, the XF SV8 is a brilliant car, and I would take one over a 5, E, or A6 4.2. The S6 though is a different matter. The ride is firm but not overly harsh, and the seats are very comfortable. It's very good around town and exceptional on the highway, and can be quite fun to drive, though its not as playful as a 5 or M.

stkntraffic · June 2008

I know sales of new and used pickups and full-size SUV's are in the crapper these days. Reading the Real-World Trade-ins forum is pretty depressing when people find out what their trucks are worth.

Just wondering if the same effect has been felt in the V8 luxury market or not. And if so, would it be a good time for a savvy buyer to get a good deal on a slightly used model? I'm thinking Japanese or German. Any thoughts?

houdini1 · June 2008

I have had the same thoughts as you and I think this would be a good strategy if you are very careful. Obviously you would not want one as a daily driver where you had to drive it 30 or 40 thousand miles a year.

I currently have a 2000 LX that still looks and drives like new but was thinking it may be a good time to get a newer one. It does not seem that the new LX 570 is being discounted much, if any, so probably smarter to go for an 05,06, or 07. This thing is a horse, very comfortable and we only drive it 5 or 6 thousand miles a year so gas doesn't kill us. You simply cannot beat it for versatility, etc.

Your best bet would be to find an individual that has "panicked" and wants to dump one. I am sure they are out there.

lexusguy · June 2008

Just wondering if the same effect has been felt in the V8 luxury market or not. And if so, would it be a good time for a savvy buyer to get a good deal on a slightly used model? I'm thinking Japanese or German. Any thoughts?

I think now is a great time to buy a lightly used V8 luxury sedan. A new M45 is about $7K more than an M35, and a new A6 4.2 costs a good $10K more than the 3.2. When you look at the used market though, those differences are basically erased.

If you're looking for something a bit bigger, a CPO Jaguar XJR is an absolute bargain. You can get very low mileage '05 examples in the low $30s.

houdini1 · June 2008

When Edmunds declared the Lexus GS430 "Japan's best sports sedan", their comparison tests lost all credibility with me

This had just the opposite effect on me. Different strokes.

stkntraffic · June 2008

I was in fact thinking about the M45. You're right, a quick search of on-line listings shows a lot of price overlap between 2-year-old M35 and M45s. There are a number of 06 M45s with low mileage listing in the low-to-upper $30K range.

I hadn't considered the Jag, but I guess their reliability reputation has improved in recent years. I wonder if maintenance parts would be sky-high or not.

lexusguy · June 2008

I highly recommend the M, its one of my favorite cars and "reliable as a wood burning stove" as they like to say on Top Gear, which makes it a smart used buy. I haven't found Jag maintenance prices to be significantly different from what Lexus charges.

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