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Comments
I never remember whether it's hear hear or here here but I second your wishes that all have a safe holiday.
merc1,
Your post made no sense to me. He wanted to race under the name Mr. Mercedes therefore his daughter was named Mercedes? What? I thought the daughter was named Mercedes and Mercedes was chosen because it was believed to have market appeal in South America or somewhere because it did not sound German. It is improbable that Daimler and Benz invented the car and the real story is that one name was dropped in favor of anyone's daughter's name. If I made your point for you I am glad to have done it.
ferrari11,
Thanks.
hear-listening, i hear you
please remember this, mixing up homophones gives other people bad impressions of the offender...
And you still didn't answer the question
If we are in a crowd of people and someone says
something and another person says ________,________ is it hear hear?
Hello26,
No the point was that the name Mercedes actually came from something other than a think-tank at a car company. Like most if not all Euro and American car they have a person or an entire family behind it. Even Toyota has that much.
M
I've been looking at Volkwagen Passat GLX 4 Motion. It wipes the snot off the face of a Lexus ES300 but it's branded "Volkwagen." An ES300 is branded Toyota in Japan. Daimler changed the name of its car so can Toyota. I think you have lexusphobia. If you don't get help at Edmunds, please get help somewhere.
hear [ye], hear [ye], but I'm open to being corrected:)
I went with the most reliable of the three. I will say this though. The BMW 740 has excellent performance and handling for a car its size. What drew me away were horror stories I heard about 7-Series complex electrical systems. For the most part these cars are trouble free however electrical problems on a 740 is something I wish on no one. A friend of mine bought a preowned "certified" '94 740 and within weeks the dashboard was all lit up like a Christmas tree with problems and the starter motor went bad. The cost to fix all the problems would have added up to nearly $3000. Great engine & powertrain & performance but the electrical system can be a nightmare if you happen to be unlucky.
Mercedes Benz is very solid, vault like construction, long lasting car again reliability is not the best contrary to many peoples' opinion, again due to problems mostly with the electrical system. My fatherhad an older ('90) Mercedes 300E. It broke down once - the thermactor pump (ie smog pump) seized up at 110K miles while driving, caused the serpentine belt to pop off & the car died within minutes (no alternator)so much for the Mercedes brand. Again these cars have excellent engines & powertrains but the problems arise in the peripheral systems and they can be very troublesome and difficult to fix right. If I'm spending a lot of money on a car, it better be trouble free and it better last.
I own a '96 Lexus LS400. Never had a single problem, not the smallest thing. After 40K miles its still dead quiest and rides just like the day it was new. Very quick and smooth though I would like the suspension to be firmer/sportier. When I take it in for service the guy asks me " Sir would you like coffee & danish while we rotate your tires" ? Customer service reigns supreme. Lexus is the hands down winner of reliable, TROUBLE FREE luxury. Sure, if you have money to burn and like to brag, buy an S500 and good luck with the electrical system down the road or trade it in after 3 years for a new one if you want to avoid headaches. I plan on owning my LS400 for many trouble free years.
Lexus for the most part is more reliable than the others. The way they handled their errors was not acceptable though. The best customer service I've had has been from Mercedes and Jaguar(which I own presently:Vanden Plas and XK8). The Jags have been fairly reliable to.
You make good points about the cars and why you chose the Lexus. Makes sense. Most people who buy luxury cars though, are not thinking reliablity first. They are thinking prestige first. A short (2 to 3 year) lease handles the reliability issue for the most part. Although I enjoyed driving the Lexus products, they're not S-class, 740il or Jaguar. Prestige and heritage. People still look for these intangibles in automobiles. My Lexus experience was horrible, but most people seem to have good experiences. Logically, the Lexus should be the no.1 choice, if you exclude prestige and heritage.
For all of us who send 60k plus on a car, we're burning money. Reliability can be had with an Accord or Camry at 20k. We really want the prestige that goes with driving an LS, S, 7 or Jag. Excluding my experience, if I was going to buy one of these cars to keep for the long run, the Lexus is the choice, hands down in engineering.
Basically, all I am saying is that they all have major shortcomings. I would advice anyone to buy what the like, period. They all have disappointed me in some way, but I will probably always own a luxury car. Good luck with the LS.
ferarri11,
I guess I understand what you are trying to say. However I don't know about the Bentley's name recognition, I don't know anyone with a Bentley, much less their top 2-door model.
M
There is one remaining problem which is rather vexing and I was wondering if any other S-430 owner has experienced the same problem.
I have a 6-disc cd changer in the trunk. Whenever I reinsert the magazine into the player (because I changed the discs) the car forgets were it was over an engine restart. Example: when I shut off the car, disc 4, song 5 is playing. When I restart the car it resets to disc 1, song 1. After a couple of days (and not removing or reinserting the magazine) the car remembers where it was when the engine was turned off and will not fail again until the magazine is ejected and reinserted.
MB acknowledges the problem and has replaced the cd player twice. This has not corrected the problem.
I told them that the new cd players did not fix the problem and asked them to diagnose further. They are not willing to look into it anymore - essentially saying to me "learn to live with it, it's working as designed" which of course is not true. They also said the MB engineering is aware of the problem in a subset of cars and its very low priority with respect to fixing it. I am contemplating contacting the our state's consumer protection board or pursuing the lemon law (I believe that my aggregate set of problems might qualify me for relief).
Any other S-CLASS owner having this same problem. Have you been able to have it resolved?
It does seem that I found a work around - after reinserting the magazine, I sequentially choose disc 1, let it play for a few seconds, pick disc 2, .... pick disc 6 and then the car remembers where it was from the 'get go'.
Thanks in advance for any responses. Objectively, this is my last Mercedes. (Just picked up a BMW X5 SAV as a second car and it is incredible!)
Thu have 6 Discs in the magazine. You pull the magazine out, to replace the discs, and then the CD Player starts over at Disc 01, Track 01.
If this is the problem, then you have no problem. The CD Changer is supposed to start over at Track One anytime you remove the magazine.
However, if this isn't your exact problem, pleace clarify.
M
a while ago you mention reliability as a no factor for rich folks with money to burn. I'm not rich but I think yes, it matters even for rich folks. While money to repair is not the main issue, putting up with going to the dealers often and driving their loaner car is not the lavish lifestyle one dreams about.
Having a 60-70k luxury vehicle that needs repairs often makes you think is it prestigious or a sloppy workmanship? Prestigious items has excellent workmanship as well. Unless, of course, prestigiousness only applies to sheet metal shape, dash design, and brand recognition.
I'm not implying that non-lexus luxury brands are totally unreliable, but just pointing out importance of reliability.
Just my humble 2 cents.
Aiman, I'm not rich either. 60k-70k for a car is still expensive to me to, but I've been fortunate to be able to afford them. Honestly, it is more prestige than anything that lured me to these cars. Not reliabilty, not safety, but luxury and prestige. Each of these car companies and products have advantages and disadvantages over the others. It really what you like. For anyone that whats the car for the long run, I would recommend the Lexus, period. For prestige, the Jaguar or Benz, and for the experience of driving a excellent piece of machinery, the BMW is the "ultimate driving machine". Thats a fact.
By the way, your 2 cents is always welcomed.
Please don't think that I'm rude - I'm just trying to be fair.
Personally, I'm a BMW fan and I'm 6'4" tall. I'll tell you later why this is important.
1. Image.
MB - just about everything - image! Never saw MB drivers pushing hard! From this point of view - S500/S600 just the matter of prestige. Moscow itself has more S600 than REST of the world combined! Why? Because new Russians want to show that they are rich! That's it! Nothing else matters! "MB drivers want to be seen behind the wheel, but BMW drivers want to drive". True!
So, if you want to show others how rich are you - buy a MB, if you want a car to drive - buy BMW.
Jag - even Vanden Plas can't accomodate me! I was out for XJR 2 times, but not even a chance to fit! So, if you are taller than 6' - forget about Jag.
2. Performance.
MB - do not pay attention to performance data!
MB always posts the data which could be possibly squized from the car at ideal condition with super driver behind the wheel!
Example? Just some latest from Automobile magazine. MB claims that ML55 does 0-60 in 6.5 sec. BMW claims that X5 (regular with 4.4 engine) does this in 7.5. Actual test shows that acceleration wise they are basicly the same! So, ANYBODY in X5 can make it in 6.8 and NOBODY in ML55 in 6.5! And this is a point.
BMW claims 740i - 6.9 and Sport Package in 6.8. Actual results for Sport - 6.1 auto and 5.8 if you push it hard!
However, I never checked for latest S500. But I tried 740 vs. S500. On paper they are identical. But we almoust CRASHED Mersedes trying to perform simple for BMW ride.
3.Power.
Who told you that S600 is most powerful? By absolute quantity of horse powers? Well, 389 for latest SL600 and 0-60 in 5.7 for the coupe. XJR has 370 (and not from V12) and 5.4 for the sedan!
BMW M5 has 400hp. So, what? What about hp/lbs ratio? Conclusion - power is not a point. Torque maybe, but not power! Actually, power is just amount of heat prodused by engine when burning a fuel. Nothing about ability to spin the tires.
4.Reliability.
Nothing is perfect. German cars are famous for mechanical superiority and ... electrical problems. Which is TRUE. But that was BEFORE. Not NOW. You can experience some - but not likely and those problems are not crucial.
These days NOBODY BUYS luxury cars! They are all leased! Who cares about broken bulb if everything covered by warranty and you have excellent service, complimentary ride or a free car (I enjoy driving 328i with Steptronic during regular maintanence stops) to play with?
5. Which one?
MB - if you want the image and prestige.
BMW - if car is for you, but not for gawkers. Looks like for now much more people prefer BMW over the MB. Or should I say DC - Daimler Chrysler? Ford killed the Jag, don't you think same could happen to MB? BWT, Daimler trademark belongs to Ford, am I right?
JAG - I have no clue. Old style was good. New one looks and, probably is, the clearly Ford. To me it's hard to imagine somebody who wants to pay 70K for the Ford. I never tried to drive XJR which is only one I ever wanted from Jag's line, but believe me, Jeep Crand Cherokee handles and performs better than XJ8! Amazing but true!
LEXUS - buy it if you are a broker or Real Estate agent. Car is good, fast, reliable, not overpriced. So, if you want to show how SMART are you paying only 50K for the "same" car, if you don't need visual impact of a MB, if you don't need superiority of a BMW, if Japanese car for 50K doesn't hurt you budget - Lexus is for you!
I leased 740iSport for several reasons.
1. 2002 7 series most likely will be available only in about 2 years.
2. I don't want to get just released car. I want a polished one. So, after a year in production.
3. Just arrived cars are always way too expencive. No special leases, no ability to nagotiate.
4. 740i Sport 2001 is a SUPERB car. Nothing comes even close. Maybe I'll extend my lease after 24 month. This car is SOOOO GOOOD!
i have to disagree about the Jag comments, the new S type looks and feels like a jag, though the interior is a bit anonymous, less wood and more plastic.
BMWs are also about impressing people, as much as MB. also, MB hasnt released the S600 yet so you must be refering to the old body. where did you get this statistic, it seems so obscure. i'd like to find info like this too.
M
M
As far as self esteem is concerned, I probably have one of the biggest egos of anyone I know, and with good reason. Your comments kind of remains me of what poor people say about what rich people buy and do. "I wouldn't do this, that, or the other, if I had that much money". You said that people should buy what they wanted. Well, I wanted a Benz,Bimmer,Lexus, and Jaguar, so I bought them. Why I wanted them is irrelevant. Don't really see what that has to do with you.
As far as a feeling of power is concerned, I have a black belt and can bench press over 350lb. Thats powerful enough for me. The cars didn't make me money. Money made me able to buy to cars. The power is in having the money. The Golden Rule. To the feeling of importance thing, I've been in the spotlight in one way or another see I played little league baseball. My feeling of importance draws me toward luxury items. I feel that this is what I deserve. Shallow, maybe. Silly, maybe.
Since, I've been on edmunds, I've never out and out insulted anyone. I have defended myself own several occasions however. We are talking about cars, and even shallow little me knows that this conversation does not warrant insulting anyone character. Its all good though. Peace.
1. I've red a lot about. Technological marvel. Aluminum body, space frame, all-wheel drive, unique design, 300hp... I started to fond...
2. I checked the car at expo. Impressive! Fit and finish, materials, front seat space - outstanding!
3. Friend of mine purchased cabrio, I believe '97 with 172hp. Supposed to be more than enough for such a small car, but actual driving experience TO ME was extremely dissapointing. Mostly because of lack of power, especially at low revs. I started to criticize... Oh, BTW, later he was trying to improve performance by tuning and even got it S badged. But to me, only the badge was actual improvent. He sold the car after about 6 months.
4. New A6 came on the market. I visited dealer and took car for a ride. Even worth! With such lack of power (200hp on paper) even Tiptronic was absolutely useless. And when I tried back seat - I got TRAPPED! No kidding! I barely was able to get out!
5.My wife was crazy about A8. So, we went to get one. I tried and ... WOW! What a car! Everything was just right, but only from the driver's seat and that's why:
a)That car was black on black and to me interior was even more spartan that on old MB.
b)Sound was terrible.
c)Don't remember exactly now, but something was wrong with a/c.
AND FINALLY - that car was the WAY more expensive than S420, 740 or Vanden Plas! Surprise? Not really. In 1999 Audi sold less then 2300 cars (A8) in USA and this with very aggressive advertisement campaign, free cars for celebrities etc. I think that only relatively successful A4 allows Audi to stay in business in the US.
SO, LEASE COST on Audi was about 30% higher than for the equally priced car (68K) from MB, BMW or Jag!
Now comes decision making process:
1. Is Audi better looking? Not really.
2. Is Audi faster? Not really.
3. Does it have the appropriate prestige recognition? Definitely not.
4. Does it have more power? Better handling? Better safety? Again not really.
5. Am I crazy about interior? Not really.
6. Do I want to pay 30% more for it? NO!
MY CONCLUSION - no more Audi! I emphasized this intentionally - this is ONLY MY opinion!
Everything is a matter of personal preferences, blonds or brunettes, Canon or Nikon, MB or BMW ...
Actually, such kind of discussion has no point at all. I'll never be able to convince MB owner that BMW is better and otherwise..., so I'm just expressing my OWN perception, just because somebody may find this interesting or useful...
And new Jag's S-series, again to me, looks just like a slightly polished latest Taurus. Take a closer look - you'll notice!
My true happiness comes from my beautiful and pregnant wife,and 2yr old daughter. Family has always been the thing that meant the most to me. I believe family is what life is really all about.
Back to cars. I think that most people who buy luxury cars are doing so for prestige as well as luxury, safety and so on. Peace.
i dont see why you think the new MB S is much better than the A8, check the CandD comparo, and the A8 does place it ahead, and their complaints about lack of leg space is remedied in the A8l. also it had the fastest acceleration. but enough about the A8. i dont think any of these cars are bad. it troubles me when people only buy things because they like to impress others or try to put on an image that really is hollow. if you like an MB, get it. if you like the jag, get it. but dont buy one because you want to impress the neighbors. i can tell if someone buys a car because they like it and a person who buys a car and wants to show everyone how rich they think they are. why do you think many of the richest people drive ordinary vehicles. bill gates drives an LS400. i doubt he drives it because it is prestigious or will impress the neighbors. they dont buy a car to put them into some esoteric league obtained by only a few, they dont care. it's a car and it made them happy.
kappaman-don t kid yourself into thinking that you've obtained some exalted status by driving the world's finest vehicles...for one thing, there are so many other things to do with your money. find a cure for cancer. feed the starving. and 6 different cars over the span of what 10 years, isnt that excessive esp when you obviously dont buy them because you like them but buy them because you think the neighbors will think you are rich. people so obsessed with self image and worth suffer from the narcissist complex. it's treatable. you could start by pleasing yourself and buying whatever you like regardless.
Bill Gates driving a LS400 does mean much to me. Ophray driving an A8 does mean much to me. My driving a Jaguar mean a lot to me. You see I've want a Jaguar since I was about 15 years old. The only reason I waited to get the Jag is reliability concerns. When J.D. Power and Intellichoice gave them excellent report I took my chance with them, and they have been no less reliable that the other brand that I've owned.
ferrarri11, I am a legend in my own mind. I was that way when I was driving a Cutlass. My head was already pretty large. Remember, I told you I have the cars because I belief I deserve this type of luxury. Now I can afford them, so I have them. As far as seeking help, I married a woman with a psychology degree, and she helps me buy them. I know, we both need help.
One question for you ferrarri11. If you think luxury car buyer are crazy, why are you chatting about high end luxury cars, and what makes you think that I would pay this type money for a car that I didn't initially like?
stick with a car you like and dont even bother what everyone else says, you dont need to impress somenoelse to be happy only yourself.
The cars are not where my happiness lay. I've had some problems with all them. They are material wealth. While nice, I understand they are not the keys to life. I have not had the fortune of my family having money for a century, but then again, "God bless the child thats got his own". We've done fairly well, and our offspring will benefit for years to come.
ferarri11, its obvious that we look at things differently. Thats cool with me. It takes all types. I'll accept you calling me shallow, silly, and all that other stuff. Hell, I can laugh at myself and actually may agree with you. Its all good, I ain't mad at you. I still will do my best not to insult you like that though.
Well, don't much more we need to discuss about the luxury car thing. When I look at it, we really haven't talk much about cars at all. Anyway, peace.
when will the XJ8 be redesigned?
M