Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

High End Luxury Cars

1959698100101463

Comments

  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I hear you. I like the idea of those "toys". They are not to be outgrown!
  • aggie76aggie76 Member Posts: 266
    Bigger toys for older boys is what I continue to believe in. Whether it is somewhat functional like a John Deere tractor to just revert to childhood by mowing things down on a warm summer afternoon with a cold drink or something for the curves like an S2000 in the fall, they have a place.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Here's a press release outlining Lexus' plans for the Japan launch in August 2005. Note they mention everything from development to sales will be totally independent from Toyota.

    http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/04/0526.html
  • carshopper1carshopper1 Member Posts: 5
    hard to argue with all that the LS has to offer. like i daid, my smarts are telling me the same as well. thanks!
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    This is from the press so not 100% reliable: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=45233

    I believe Lexus has said publicly that hybrid will spread beyond the RX. You can also check http://www.lexus.com/models/hybrid/ to see how serious they are about it.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Wondered where the topic went ? I had Cadillac for at least ten to twelve years. Man I was treated poorly..If they were to offer a great product, and I read a number of posts for a few years I could be tempted to try one again, but I seriously doubt they will accomplish that...It takes a long time to overcome a past abuse Tony
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    As an LS owner myself, I HIGHLY recommend the car. Take a drive in an '04 with the sport package and 18" wheels, its a very different animal than the rather soft '01-03 model. Considering the car was just refreshed for this year, I doubt there will be any major changes for the '05 model. Maybe a few new colors and thats it. Lexus has other introductions to worry about. In a recent C&D comparo, the LS beat out every German lux-o-barge on sale here, Audi, VW, M-B, and BMW, as well as the newly redesigned XJ8. Car and Driver is not a magazine that cares about reliability. If the LS is good enough to impress THOSE folks, its worth a look :)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Hey Lexusguy-which issue of C&D was that? I would like to read that comparo.
    Thanks.
    Howard
  • aggie76aggie76 Member Posts: 266
    December 2003. I agree fully with Lexusguy, I also have an '04 LS430 and it is a truly fine car.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Thanks a lot. I will try to get a copy of that issue.
    Howard
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The comparo of the first place LS430 with other $70,000 comparably equipped luxury sedans can be found on C&D's website.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    Yes, Lexus has said the hybrid will spread beyond the RX400h. But it hasn't said how much it will spread. Lexus also hasn't said how much horsepower a supposed LS hybrid would have. So, I do not know where all these claims of 600bhp and so on come from. Not just that but the more ridiculous claim of the LS hybrid basically being a monster car that will put all other competitors to shame is a bold and ridiculous statement 3 years before the new LS comes out. Second, that would imply Mercedes, BMW, Infiniti are just going to stand still while Lexus moves forward. Now, we all know how much B.S. that is.

    And the press is usually less than 100% accurate on stories. After all, they do have to sell issues & get advertising dollars. Blowing news out of proportion is one way they do it.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Maxhonda:

    Infinty Q45 only sells a few 100 cars a year...they are not in the game no matter what Lexus come up with.

    You seem so desperate to deny the truth of what is coming...Mercedes and BMW will probably counter with something maybe even license the Toyota hybrid technology...But they will have to move quickly.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    BMW is developing their own hybrid technology, it would seem they would not want to license Toyotas'.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I wasnt surprised to see Ford and Nissan liscensing hybrid technology from Toyota, but for BMW and M-B to do it would be a whole different story. I think its a matter of pride, BMW and Mercedes I think still feel superior to Toyota, and to actually ask them for help seems unlikely.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    I think most of the 600hp talk stems from the article in the first link I posted. Whether it turns out to be true remains to be seen.

    It is possible that the 600hp, if it happens, will be in a 'super LS' sort of car, kind of like a 760 or S600 in terms of pricing and unit volumes.
  • sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    There was a press article some months ago, I think I posted the link in this forum...basically it said MB was talking to Toyota about licensing hybrid technology from Toyota. Don't know what happened after that.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    "You seem so desperate to deny the truth of what is coming"

    you're funny.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    BMW seems committed to hydrogen as an alternative fuel source, so I don't think it's a matter or pride.
  • rgswrgsw Member Posts: 333
    I found a comment in the current C/D that the new LS500GT will borrow styling cues from the Lexus LF-S concept....the production LS500GT will have a hybrid system providing all-wheel drive by sending electric power to the front wheels. The total output is expected to reach an incredible 600 HP, 200 of which will be provided by the hybrid system. The LS500GT is expected to top $100K in price when it goes on sale fall 2006.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Then its a matter of being committed to a pipe dream. Reliable, cheap hydrogen is a LONG way off. Sorry mr. Bush, but 2010 aint gonna happen.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Don't shoot the messenger on this, however, more companies than BMW are committed to hydrogen. The as yet unproven hybrid systems are at best a stop-gap measure. I say unproven because we really don't have long term pluses and minuses of them.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Both Toyota and Honda have developed hybrid systems that are so relatively simple and effective that they have been incorporated into their hybrid cars for several years now with no problems.

    I know Toyota has a 100% guranatee on their battery system for the first 100,000 miles...after 100,000 the batteries need to be replaced at a cost of about $2,500.

    Lexus will be coming out with their Hybrid system in an SUV next year.
    several auto companies have purchased lisences to use the Toyota hibrid system.

    THESE ARE NOT UNPROVEN SYSTEMS.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Toyota and Honda are clear leaders in this area. Ford is coming out with a hybrid Escape using Toyota's (older) first gen hybrid system. Which century are they in ? Even Ford is smart enough to do the right thing - go with proven technology.... Hydrogen fuel-based power is a pipe dream, just as lexusguy said. It ain't gonna happen in twenty years, at the least, imo. The gas-electric system remains the most viable alternative for now. GM and BMW developing H2-hased system will learn soon enough not to throw good money after bad business model. Didn't GM promise this by 2010 ? Yeah, right....

    Max: LS500GT, GS350GT, VXxxx (Lexus version of the Sequoia), 2006 Tundra and 2007 Sequoia are all rumored to have a hybrid engine option when they all debut. Guess, we'll see if this ultimately pans out as *speculated*. But Toyota is a proven winner in hybrid system so I'd bet these to happen soon enough, especially as the politics of oil heats up (pun intended) in coming years.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I dont think 15+ years qualifies as "stop-gap". I applaud Toyota and Honda for looking at a current environmental and geo-political issue, and DOING something about it. BMW can send out as many press releases as it likes about how great hydrogen is GOING to be, but the all new 5 and 6 series use plain old 93 premium, and lots of it. The RX400h gets what, 2.5x the mileage of the X5?

    You're probably looking at 2025 before there's a hydrogen station on every street corner, and the PEM fuel cells and batteries are small enough to fit into your average Civic or Focus.
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    Roamer's first rule of innovation says:

    "New technology needs to co-exist with that which it is going to replace".

    That exactly what hybrids are doing today. Helping us make the transition to more effective chemical and electric solutions to transportation technology.

    Hydrogen, OTH, can't until there's at least enough 'hydrogen refueling points' for vehicle to go from point a to point b.

    Maybe the right answer for hydrogen is a hydrogen hybrid. We'll call it HyHy.
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    Some folks here love to tout the 'heritage' of certain makes and how they were the top gun in 1930 or so. Well, that's great but you know that was 70 years ago.

    In the meanwhile, others have been competitive.

    For all the fans of BMW, Audi, VW and Mercedes, let's welcome you to the best engine manufacturer on the planet: Honda.

    The Indy 500 just ended. Race cars powered by Honda finished in the first 7 positions. No BMW, No Mercedes, No Audi, No VW, No Porsche.

    You want something that puts out max power, at 200+ mph for 500 miles or more, where do you go? Not Europe. I read that the MB V10's blew up again in todays Grand Prix F1 race at Nurburgring.

    Toyota is 2nd in the IRL standing, Chevy a distant 3rd.

    Heritage is one thing, reality is another.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Nein!!! Suh Cherman cars are suh BEST!!!!!! Vee are superior unt vee vill vin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Someone had better develop and throw money at alternative energy source. Gas/electric hybrid systems just delay the inevitable, more reliance on oil.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    I watched the race until the rain delay and that was it for me. I was surprised to see Honda engine-powered cars so dominant in the race. Buddy Rice, the pole sitter, qualified doing 222+mph. Astounding ! Is this the same Honda company that will not put a V8 in their high-end RL ? Strange....

    More to your point tho', the IRL or CART may have Honda and Toyota dominance, but the counter to that is F-1 racing where Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW and others are dominant, and the likes of Toyota and Honda either don't even play or are small potato (I suspect). So it may be a wash anyway.....
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    And just who is going to do that? Cheney?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    No. Kerry.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    Hang it up on the politics.

    (You're both wrong anyway. LOL)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    As long as there are rampant profits to be made in oil, nobody will invest in alternative ideas, except Japan.
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Lexusguy,
      Good point. I sincerely doubt the Oil companies are going to allow alternatives such as hydrogen to eat into their market share. In creating the Hybrid, Toyota and Honda have presented a viable technology. Okay, it's not a replacement for oil, but it at least makes for a more efficient technology.
       I'll be very impressed if the RX400h lives up to the hype. The allure of the hybrid technology is almost enough for me to trade my 02 LS in 2006/7 when the new Hybrid LS is expected. This is what I call revolutionary technology.

    SV
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    Ferrari is.

    Current constructor points:

    Ferrari 106
    Renault 61
    BAR-Honda 46
    Williams-BMW 36
    Sauber-Petronas 10
    McLaren-Mercedes 5

    Jag has 3 points and is further down.

    MB engines aren't reliable, BMW's fading from competition. Honda moving up.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Indeed, my wife and I will be closely looking at the RX400h. I think Toyota has a chance to revolutionize the industry, as well as grab that 15% market share they've been after..
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I don't think the OIL companies have a choice, I don't know about you but I don't want to pay $3 or more a gallon. Hybrid technology is a band-aid, real alternative sources need to be found. GM and BMW both investing in hydrogen/fuel cell technology. It doesn't matter how proven hybrid technology is if there is no oil to make gasoline.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    NUCLEAR MAY BE THE ANSWER...
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    There is actually plenty of oil on this earth to take us for another centry ...there is plenty to satisify our needs just in the US territories ...The problem is the enviormental people who do not want us to drill for it and I am not just talking about Anwar. We have huge Coal reserves from which Oil can be extracted and there is hard to reach oil in our current fields that can be reached with R&D and good old American enterprise. Nuclear Plans for electricity should replace current plants that eat up Oil and Gas (Mostly Natural Gas) Nuclear has proven to be the Cleanest and safest form of energy and if we can get the lawyers out of the way and start building these plants it is also the cheapest

    There is huge reserves off shore all our coasts...The California coast has massive oil resources as does Florida.

    The thing that I find curious is that our enviormental people object to our drilling in the US which has the best laws for protecting the enviorment in the world...

    If this is truly one small earth ship and the cleanest drilling is preferred to the dirty countries drilling, we should be drilling all our oil at home.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    wouldn't you become a dirty country by drilling all the oil? by building more oil wells?

    "The thing that I find curious is that our enviormental people object to our drilling in the US which has the best laws for protecting the enviorment in the world..."

    Well, if the US increased oil drilling off the shore of California, in remote parts of Alaska, then you would be doing more harm to the environment. Wouldn't you?
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    It seems to me that with all of our advanced technology, real technology leadership, especially in 'luxury' vehicles that tout technology as a heritage or forté, should be strong on very low emissions per vehicle.

    It would be smart and the extra money well-spent.

    Instead, I think the horsepower and land barge SUV wars, are doing just the opposite.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    You would be doing far less harm drilling in the US...our people can drill in a clean, Enviormentally save way....Other countries don't care. My point is we would become a cleaner World....

    Not drilling in Anwar is the most Moronic decision this countries Envormental people have stuck us with....I Have been to Barrow..In fact my brother spent years working up there..I know what that part of the country is like....it is 100s of miles of nothing, drilling would not and probably could not harm anything in that enviorment.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    Aren't you doing harm by drilling for oil to begin with? If you drill for more oil, it would put more oil on the market, thereby lowering oil prices, which in turn lowers gas prices by increasing supply, which in turn leads to more gas being used by drivers either by buying bigger gas guzzling cars or by using a lead foot.

    Isn't it wiser to find alternative clean fuels? Such as Hydrogen.

    Which would have a bigger beneficial impact on the planet? the US drilling more oil in remote areas or simply doing away with drilling for oil and finding better energy sources?
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Member Posts: 619
    Would someone please explain to me where the hydrogen for fuel cells is supposed to come from? I have read that natural gas is a potential source, but there doesn't seem to be any surplus of that. Nuclear power could be used to generate hydrogen, but the environmentalists go ballistic when you talk about new nuclear power plants.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Max:

    I have a brother-in-law with patents on fuel cells...He says it is unlikely there will ever be Hydrogen fuel cells that are practical.

    Yes if we could run cars on water of something cheap that would be great but..at the moment there are no practical alternatives to what we are already doing....If you want to volunteer to ride a bicycle every where you go...Great we will save some oil...Hybrids will save some oil..Nuclear will save lots of oil and gas..The enviormental people don't want us to build hydro....

    Tomorrow you and I will need to drive somewhere or fly..That take gas and gas comes from oil. (NOT TO MENTION PLASTIC PRODUCTS THAT WE ALL USE)

    It is good to dream about a better fuel and more efficent cars but the fact is we will get up tomorrow and need to drive somewhere.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Got three quarters af a tank today..Thirty two dollars.
    Went to a nice resturant the other day and steak for two eighty five dollars plus tip..I find everything expensive, but everything is relative, and my income is also up and I might add , alot more than these new expensive prices...I`l stop if they stop....Tony ps I`,m not buying a hundred thousand dollar Lexus period
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Nuclear isnt particularly clean or safe. What exactly DO you do with all of those spent rods? Where do they go? We dont want them in THIS country. Biomass power seems to be the answer, or at least, a way to cut down on coal and oil. Biomass is very clean, and leaves none of that messy nuclear waste that has to be sealed for 10,000 years.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    syswei,

    "You are pretending that a wider model/price range hurts sales rather than helps sales. If we used your reasoning, then if Lexus were to introduce a 100k or even 200k super-LS, it would hurt overall LS unit sales."

    Until you acknowledge that the price is higher than any Lexus for the upper S-Class models your point is moot with me.

    "S-Class sales are NOT limited by the existence of the higher-trim lines, as long as the S430 is still marketed."

    And the S430 still costs more than LS430. You're ignoring price at every turn. You pretend it has no bearing on anything.

    maxhonda99

    You are also ignoring price. Yes having more variants could help sales overall, but they're priced even higher than any LS430. This whole discussion got started because of some half-baked theory about the S-Class having more models should equal more sales and my point is that isn't always going to be the case because those extra models costs waaay more than the LS430.

    Maybe we've been arguing about nothing because you two didn't make the original ridiculous statement. Are you both saying that the S-Class should sell more units because it has more variants, though the price difference is pretty steep in some cases?

    I still think someone else is using your ID in some of your other posts...lol.

    michael_mattox,

    No offense but I haven't responded to any of your recent posts because I found them largely irrelevant to the discussion. Its basically always the same thing with you (nothing factual) so I don't bother anymore. To me personally you're not on the same page as the other Lexus owners/fans. I didn't post one "dig" about Lexus or at you before leaving, the whole thing was started (this time) by a certain Lexus fan who remains lost on the facts whenever they post.

    lexusguy,

    Long time ago (lol) you asked me had I driven the BMW M3 SMG, nope just the good ole manual version. WOW to sum it up.

    mbukukanyau,

    "If the MB's of this world were that good, they might as well show up for one season, show people the dust and move one."

    Then the gold ole boys would come to F1 and DTM etc. and do the same right?

    footie,

    Lost footie... Do you not understand that different racing series are for different makers? Gee whiz...why doesn't MB compete in rallying with Subaru? Why doesn't Chevy compete in DTM. Utterly ridiculous.

    MB isn't dominate in F1 but they've won before. What has Lexus done in F1. Oh wait, "Lexus" isn't in F1 because it is synthetic nameplate. Forgot that. I don't think you even understand racing at all. Example:

    "You want something that puts out max power, at 200+ mph for 500 miles or more, where do you go? Not Europe."

    Bull! Where the hell are Ferrari and Porsche from? They have more racing victories than Toyota will ever have. Period! Ferrari builds the most reliable/durable engines in the world's premier auto racing series..Formula One.

    M
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Yep, that should put an end to the nuclear energy talk but good. Today will be must-reading here. Stay tuned folks.
Sign In or Register to comment.