High End Luxury Cars

topspin628 · July 2004

Wow! Is it just me or are there some Lexus employees on this board? Sure seems personal.

Anyway as a point of interest, a limo service picked me up today in an 01 S500. It's a small company and the owner uses this car all the time for limo duty. He has over 160K on it and told me that he never had a problem, electrical or otherwise. Only basic maintanince and at a bit over 100K had to have the front end done- is that normal at that mileage for most cars?

He bought an extended warranty for 150,000 miles so it was at no cost to him. Car felt tight and quiet from the back seat and I never would have guessed the miles. I guess "some" benzes are still "good as old".

Another interesting question/point: With car performance,features and reliability improving for all brands, it would be interesting to see a review of a 5-7 year car done now as if it were new and to see how it would rate right now against today's standards.

maxhonda99 · July 2004

A RWD Car is generally more reliable that a FWD car in the chassis dept. So I wouldn't doubt a S500 only having a front end job at over 150K miles.

"Wow! Is it just me or are there some Lexus employees on this board?"

It doesn't seem to you like there are some(well actually one at this moment) BMW employees on this board?

ljflx · July 2004

Stay away from profits - for your own good. It'll take BMW 20 years to make what Toyota made last year. You need GE or Microsoft to top Toyota and that's just barely. BMW doesn't play in that league.

livinbmw · July 2004

"Lexus is outselling BMW again this year by a rather large margin"

As of June it Lexus 115,102 to BMW's 115,737

WRONG, again, MAX.

ljflx · July 2004

Don't know about that because you don't put any sources with your posts. But the last official scorecard I saw had Lexus well ahead of BMW with record sales and they just had a great June. Actually - 18 consecutive months of record sales is what I read.

I'd love to know where you got your demos from on the 3-series. I know the demographic codes backwards and forwards and every company that puts them out and never saw many of the demo profiles you posted.

pat · July 2004

Couple of things here --

First, some of you need to calm down. I've removed some posts and will continue to do so if the messages continue to be uncivil.

Second, if one cannot or will not post a link to a message that appears to have been copied and pasted from another website, the message will have to be removed. The link must be publicly accessible - meaning not to a site that requires a paid membership, for example.

There are several reasons for this - ensuring we are not violating copyright laws is one of them. Showing the readers that the pasted material wasn't completely made up is another. Letting the readers here evaluate the source for themselves is one more.

Email me with any questions or comments, thanks.

And please keep this conversation civil. There is a very interesting debate going on here, but the one or two of you who can't keep the flames out of your posts are out of line.

Thanks.

designman · July 2004

Yeah. Plus this is the geriatric ward of Edmunds and the cardiac monitors are smoking at the nurses station... I'm all shook up! Think I'll sneak a shot of VO in my Ensure... oh Jeez, gotta go... here comes the nurse...

maxhonda99 · July 2004

Think again livinbmw,

Thru 1st half of 2004:
Lexus: 138,139
BMW: 125,824

Both of these numbers are from their respective press releases on 7/1/04.

Better yet, BMW had 3 new or redesigned products for 2004, the 5-series, 6-series, and X3 and sales have only increased 5% over the same time in 2003. Meanwhile with the supposedly cushy cars that nobody wants(and that are unsturdy, bland, chick cars) Lexus increased sales 17% over the same time and with the only new product being the RX330.

pat · July 2004

Hmmm ... all of you who keep quoting sales figures would be far more credible if you'd just link to your source. Dunno why that's so hard.

maxhonda99 · July 2004

oh...ok....you take all the fun out of it..

links:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/- www/story/07-01-2004/0002203827&EDATE=

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/- www/story/07-01-2004/0002203730&EDATE=

lexusguy · July 2004

Wow, apparently people must like the '04 LS430, even though its an unsturdy boring yawn box.

livinbmw · July 2004

I sat in a typical regional sales meeting in the mid 90's with a very successful toyota dealer principal and he interrupted this poor sales manager fellow and walked up to this eraserboard and wrote down one word and said that this is all I care about. "Now let's get the bleep out of here," he said. The word he wrote on the board was ... results.

Can't argue with Toyota/Lexus results.

McDonald's sells lots of Big Mac's, too.

sv7887 · July 2004

Topspin,
That was an interesting story about the S Class car. I'm not surprised, regardless of the stats, the S is a great car. I'm having to replace front end bushings on my 12 yr old LS400.He managed to get a warranty? I wonder how much that must cost.
I don't get all this talk about Lexus being excessively boring..Where exactly can you drive about 70 MPH anyway? I've never gotten about 80 around here..That's probably why I don't see the need for so much HP in these new cars.. The 250 HP in my LS400 is more than enough. If you live in an area with lots of windy roads, then I can see your point..

I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't mind giving those "I don't like SUV's Why do you?" board a run for their money on the number of posts. That would be really amusing.

SV

pat · July 2004

but if you do, you have to keep it civil and on topic. No posts just for the sake of driving the post count up.

Okay?

topspin628 · July 2004

He told me that the extended warranty cost him about 4K but that 150,000 is the max so now he's on his own. He said that he plans to keep the car another year or so and probably be at around 250k on it. Pretty impressive to me.

ljflx · July 2004

The thing I like best about the Toyota press release is that more than 65% of the cars are built right here in the US. Good for America for sure but also shows that Anericans are very good auto producers. It also shows that Toyota has one hell of a production process that maintains great quality and reliability no matter where they build their cars.

ljflx · July 2004

I had an S430 limo take me home from JFK a couple of years ago. The guy also had a troublefree car. What surprised me the most was that the fee was the same as you'd pay in a traditional Lincoln limo that just about everyone else has. Funny - but he was also between an LS430 and an S430 as the car of choice and chose the latter because of the greater leg room in the rear. I haven't seen it develop much but he felt the limo business would move to more high end cars.

designman · July 2004

Id like to know WHAT the hell is so important about sales figures except to show profit/loss trends as it pertains to each model and manufacturer.

THIS IS REALLY GETTING BORING.

Livinbmw, you had more momentum talking about BMW as a performance manufacturer. How about mentioning that THE TREND IS TOWARD PERFORMANCE SEDANS and speculating how everyone will measure up why no has been able to emulate the BMW formula and how only now they are starting to mount formidable challenges.

Want to know why sales talk is usually boring? Because it isnt creative. Everyone quotes statistics but they dont have the guts to PREDICT. I want opinions. I want intuition. I want ideas.

Yeah, I like demographics/psychographics but I want to hear opinions on how and why they are used to a manufacturers advantage or detriment. For instance, the BMW buyer is considered a technophile. Did BMW have the wherewithal to figure out that it couldnt pull the wool over the eyes of its technophile buyers with iDrive and the frivolous self-serving active steering? Nah, instead they figure they have one of the highest percentages of repeat buyers. Sure theyll buy whatever we throw at them and at the same time it will look like we are on the leading edge of technology. BS.

I wonder how the M5 will do without manual transmission. I guess BMW figured they could forget about their enthusiasts, take them for granted and shove SMG down their throats, then drag buyers over from Mercedes. Also, that high revving 8200 redline engine better have some torque at the low end. The average Joe doesnt know how to drive high revving engines and all of the torquey Mercedes could seem a lot better on the surface for real-world driving. Even the high revving Ferrari 612 Scaglietti took a knock regarding lack of torque off the line, and the MB CL600 beat it in certain speed categories. You have to spin that engine to realize its talentnot practical for everyday driving.

From every angle it looks as if BMW has sold its souland that Mephistopheles has double-crossed them!!

Full disclosure: I love Sinatra and most kinds of music. Lexusguy, aren't those cool groups you mentioned the favorites of Beavis & Butthead? I know Metallica is.

;-)

lexusguy · July 2004

Metallica came on the scene in '82-83, long before beavis and butthead. I liked Metallica in those days because they werent like the cheesy "glam rock" of the time. Unfortunately Metallica sold their souls as well, but particularly the '86-92 era was fantastic. Pearl Jam isnt really a B&B kind of band (though they did make fun of the Daughter video). Filter was long after B&B was over.

pablo_l · July 2004

Indeed, this is a point I have made in this board before: sales numbers don't really mean all that much. Ferrari would be an undesirable and crappy board if that was the case. In fact, exclusivity goes hand in hand with the concept of luxury.

And the whole partisan brand religion is ridiculous. Big companies will always have cyclical success patterns.

I do think the German car brands are basically victims of their past success, paying for excess. But it is clear they are changing that, only it will take a few years to show. And ultimately Toyota will fall victim to the tyranny of the growth mandate, too. Momentarily.

But none of this is relevant to the virtues of a particular car this board may discuss.

callmedrfill · July 2004

So the low-volume M5 makes sense from a marketing standpoint, if they want to get a ROI from their SMG R&D dollars.

    Are they enhancing the M5, or selling what the people want? Don't think so. With the new engine, it would sell with a 3-speed column-shifter!

    Stop player-hatin' on Lexus' sales numbers. They'll only get better once the new IS and LS get here in '05, plus Toyota's hybrid power proceeds to take over the luxury landscape.

    I'm surprised the A8 doesn't do better. It's selling like a Q-ship!

    DrFill

livinbmw · July 2004

thanks, for getting me back on point.

Performance and the driving passion that goes along with it .......that's BMW's forte.

You know this SMG thing in the M5 is great technology but it's going to leave some prospective buyers scratching their heads in disbelief and frustration. The several M5 owners that I know are most definitely going to have some serious reservation about not having a clutch. However, I'm confident that the car will have waiting lists and for every person that won't consider the car because of the lack of a manually controlled clutch there will be someone else willing to pilot this monster. I can't wait to get my hands on one.

lexusguy · July 2004

I still dont like the styling of the new M5 at all. And if history is any indication, BMW will be first to break the 500hp barrier in the midsize class, only to be beaten by M-B and Audi maybe 2 years down the line. I dont know how much more than 450hp Audi is willing to go, but its clear that M-B is taking a back seat to no one, especially BMW, on horsepower.

rroyce10 · July 2004

..... ** Plus this is the geriatric ward of Edmunds and the cardiac monitors are smoking at the nurses station.. ** ..... l..o..l...

Terry.

oac · July 2004

Hey, DrFill, nice to see you around here.

100+ posts in a little over 4 days ? Geez !!! this forum made it into Edmund's top-10. What's the fuss all about here ???

I haven't read all the posts, but have to make a small comment addressing Designman's post. Yes, sales may not be important to the art of driving and performance, but it is bottomline, afterall this is a *for-profit* business, and if those profits don't come in as expected, you'll have the issues some companies are facing today.

Hey, designman, Merc1, maybe you both wanna take an 04 LS430 out for a spin. Here is how an owner describes the 6-speed shifter/tranny in the 04 LS.

mapleleaf "Lexus LS" Jul 16, 2004 7:51pm

Think the LS is that mush and boring car you all claim it is ?? Maybe a test drive will change some of your views on this car, eh ?

Now back to my lounge chair, while you all have more fun.

dieselbreath · July 2004

I just discovered this forum this weekend and can't stop reading. Its the best. I have many things to do and you guys are messing up my plans!

RE: "2. Lex fuel filler on left, Benz on right, huh?"

Most design decisions on German cars are based on occupant safety.
(VW discontinued the optional driver-side sliding door on their vans the same year that chrysler "invented it" because of kids & traffic)

RE: GAS-CAPs
============
So, you run out of gas at night on the highway and pull to the side of the road. When your friend/spouse arrives with the gas can, do you want to be standing IN the traffic to fill up, or safely on the other side of the car? This is typical of the subtle differences between European and Japanese design.

Here's my gross generalization on design criteria:
The Japanese go for style & efficiency.
The Europeans for safety, utility and efficiency (& in Europe, performance/handling is a safety feature ... esp. at 150 MPH).
The American makers slap together the car in whatever fashion is cheapest (with CARB requirements driving any efficiency aspects)

hjcanter · July 2004

So, what is the opinion on the new A8? I am looking at that and the new A6 4.2

highender · July 2004

agree designman.....wish they can get act together really quick and bet the cAyenne up to excellent in reliability....

I had a 2000 boxster S, and loved it...but had to sell due to 2 kids and wife...

lexusguy · July 2004

"So, you run out of gas at night on the highway and pull to the side of the road. When your friend/spouse arrives with the gas can, do you want to be standing IN the traffic to fill up, or safely on the other side of the car? This is typical of the subtle differences between European and Japanese design."

Various Lexus cars have gas caps on either side. They put the gas cap on the side where the gas tank is genius.

livinbmw · July 2004

how 'bout a 3 series convertible......

back seat, trunk, a viable family car? why not

livinbmw · July 2004

This is either total spin or better logic......

The fuel lid door is on the passenger side (BMW) because most collisions occur on the driver's side (making left hand turns).

Consequently, the possibility of fuel tank ignition in an accident is reduced.

dieselbreath · July 2004

"Various Lexus cars have gas caps on either side. They put the gas cap on the side where the gas tank is genius. "

Oh ... so you're saying Toyota/Lexus doesn't care about customer safety, but that they apply the Detroit policy of doing whatever is cheapest?

That goes along with their refusal to recall all those Camry's with faulty master cylinders in the early 90's ... it would be "bad publicity" ... who cares if your customers die ... they already paid for the car and that's all that counts, right?
Like I said, in Japan style and image drives design and corporate culture whereas in Europe its the customer's safety.
Different philosophies produce different cars that suit different buyers needs. Lets hear it for the free market system!

ljflx · July 2004

Is this the next big thing? Lexus had it on the right on the LS400 until either 1998 or when it became the 430 in 2001. I forgot when the actual change came. Frankly I preferred it on the right because Jersey has multiple island stations for the most part. So you pull in and the line can go two or three deep and you wait but if you had the filler door on the right you'd be able to pull right up to a free gas pump - most of the time. I am impatient so I loop around but I hate doing it.

footie · July 2004

What brilliance the Europeans go to and put the cap on the "passenger" side. Do they move it to the left when they sell the car in the UK? Nope!

As I remember the Japanese also drive on the 'wrong side' of the road and so do the Aussies.

So they do it right for their country and try to kill us instead?

And can you imagine a CEO authorizing a decision about a gas cap location based on the likelihood that someone is going to run out of gas and needs a safe place to stand while they gas up? How often does that happen? How about 0 point 0 0 0 etc.

The safety argument seems to be more marketing doublespeak.

michael_mattox · July 2004

Hmmmmmmm

Suburu has the gas tank filler tube on the right.....

I know it is often that we need to use a can to fill our tank because we ran out of gas at night on the FREEWAY. Some innovative companies put a gas gage thing and a flashing light to warn you to put gas in your car.

I also know that a 150MPH car is a safety feature in itself.

Some really safety nut companies even build cars that almost never break down and leave their driver at the mercy of the first crazy person, thief or rapiest that drives by. Too bad the German companies haven't mastered this safety feature.

dieselbreath · July 2004

RE: "...a gas cap location based on the likelihood that someone is going to run out of gas and needs a safe place to stand while they gas up? How often does that happen? How about 0 point 0 0 0 etc."

Actually, there are dozens and dozens of Americans killed while putting gas into their cars on the side of the road. I saw a stat on it once and unfortunately can't remember if it was over 100 or under 100 per year. And its not just at night.

But remember that VW recalled the Beetles because there was a plastic clip that wasn't as tight as the engineers specified, so IF the clip came loose the wire could hang down, and IF it stretched over time it might touch the engine, and IF it did rub on the engine for a long time it could expose bare copper, and IF it exposed bare copper it could make a spark, AND IF the engine was covered in oil or gas at the time of this potential spark it could start a fire. So they recalled them.
I have never heard of a fire caused by this problem, but if they didn't do the recall it might have happened.

So, there's a manufacturer saying "this was not to spec, so we are recalling to fix it because there is a remote risk to our customers".

People get killed filling gas tanks on the highway.
Several police get killed every year when their car is hit on the side of the freeway and its got reflective tape and flashing lights!
And kids get killed stepping out of the back seat of vehicles into traffic, whether the door slides or hinges.

As I said, in one culture a recall is usually for the benefit of the customer and many buyers of european vehicles understand this. The manufacturer is not "losing face" to save the lives of even a small number of customers. But look at Camry brakes or Pinto gas tanks, and you see the approach if the bean-counters control safety recalls.

Personally, I don't want to buy a car from a company that does internal studies to compare the cost of the recall against the cost of the potential law-suits from the surviving family members! I don't care what their reliability ratings are. But you are free to do as you please.

warthog · July 2004

I wanna know how we all make enough money to buy these freakin' cars when all we do with our time, apparently, is write and read lengthy posts about where the gas filler is.

dieselbreath · July 2004

Interesting comments:

RE: "Some really safety nut companies even build cars that almost never break down and leave their driver at the mercy of the first crazy person, thief or rapiest that drives by. Too bad the German companies haven't mastered this safety feature. "

If you like that argument, how about: "Some really safety nut companies even build full-size cars that travel over 1000 kms on a tank so you don't have to stop between cities and leave your passengers at the mercy of the first crazy person, thief, rapiest or car-jacker that drives by. Its called a turbo-diesel. Too bad the Japanese companies haven't mastered this safety feature. "

That argument is just as silly and just as valid!

Besides better performance, car-jacking (at gas stations) is a serious problem in Europe and one of the factors in choosing a diesel engine over gas, especially for executives who are driven long distances to meetings. I don't have stats on how bad it is in the US, but I do know lots of people who don't like to travel on the highway at night because of the unknowns of filling stations, rest areas, or (as you mentioned) potential break-down. This was a real problem on I-95 in Florida when I was there ~20 years ago, but I don't know if its spread or not.

BTW one of my favorite vehicles was a 1984 Toyota Land-Cruiser Diesel Wagon. At 245,000 kms the engine still ran great! Too bad the body rusted away so badly around that nice reliable engine.....
I replaced it with a vintage 1970 Benz 300SEL-4.5v8 that had even higher mileage, and never broke down once or showed a hint of rust while I owned it.

dieselbreath · July 2004

RE: "I wanna know how we all make enough money to buy these freakin' cars when all we do with our time, apparently, is write and read lengthy posts about where the gas filler is. "
especially on this forum ... there are snipers in every tree!

and to think it all started with someone mentioning Lexus put it on one side and Benz on the other, and that wasn't even 100% accurate!

designman · July 2004

LMAO. The best part is that it's Saturday night.

Dieselbreath... yeah, warthog snipes. You don't want to be doing a Vegas stand-up act with him in the audience.

lexusguy · July 2004

Comparing a Camry to a Pinto is just insulting. Camrys dont blow up when rear ended. Only Pintos, and Crown Vics do that.

ljflx · July 2004

Have my own business with a couple of partners, and this is a nice away of easing the pressure. It works great. Keeps you sharp, takes your mind off of business matters and then your refreshed to deal with business issues anew. Of course sometimes it gets pressure oriented in here. The trick is not making it personal.

dieselbreath · July 2004

Comparing a Camry to a Pinto is just insulting.

I sincerely apologize to all Pinto owners.

dieselbreath · July 2004

But I wasn't comparing the cars, I was comparing the companies. The cars don't decide whether to disclose their safety problems or not, its the manufacturer. The fact is that Toyota, like all manufacturers of modern, autos (which are extremely complex marvels of engineering, materials science, human factors, aerodynamics, electronics, software, and many other disciplines) that are revamped/restyled/upgraded/revised on a regular basis makes mistakes.

My point is that I am concerned with how a company deals with its mistakes. In some cultures the customer, as the ultimate provider of your livelihood, is the ultimate master and you disclose any concerns (and rectify them) to appease them. But in asian cultures the company is the ultimate party that matters, and to admit to an error or defect would cause one to lose face. So the problems are covered up, even at the risk of harming customers.

Ford tried to cover up the Pinto problem until it was already public anyway. Toyota has been lucky so far, but if you get a chance to talk to an ex service-manager or technician (a current one would lose his job discussing this) you'll find that there are some simple, unofficial rules of customer service:
#1 - the cars have no problems (even if you see the same defect 10 times in a week)
#2 - the customer must be told its the first time you've seen this problem and ask them about their driving habits. Gently suggest that they may have caused the problem.
#3 - don't give the customer reason to take their complaint elsewhere, because no one else must know of the problems.

What they do is create an environment where customers feel embarrassed to admit they bought a car with a defect, and better yet, to feel guilty that they may have caused it themselves.
In this case, they will choose to NOT report their problems and Toyota can keep this urban legend about high-quality going a bit longer.

Its funny, but the US & Canada are the only places where this marketing brain-washing has taken hold. In Britain (where the average person seems more knowledgable about cars in general) a Corolla is something you drive if you can't afford a Golf. But in the US a corolla is considered a status symbol in some circles. I don't get it.

I think Toyota has the best marketing skills in the entire world!

designman · July 2004

Hmm, don't know about those Toyota marketing skills per se. IMO, what Toyota has working for them is the biggest mass-market benefit known to mankindmore for less. Always worked, always will. Marketing starts with a quality product that sells itself. The really skilled marketers can sell potholes to New Yorkers. I've known a few of these types and they never cease to amaze me, mostly because of their ability to spin without scruple.

I have to believe Toyota would approach Microsoft proportions if their styling was spot-onthey are totally bereft in this area. But then again, every time I get carried away thinking that styling matters I say to myself, you fool, look at Toyota. I find only two of their cars acceptable in manner of stylingMR2 and LS430. The only vehicle that is a standout is the IS SportCrossliving proof of the more-for-less axiom, because this car just can't compete with the likes of Subaru, and is probably living proof that when it comes down to the nitty gritty, styling is not as important as I would like to believe.

Glad to see new faces around here. These pizza-butt Lexus fans were getting a little too smug. Nyuck, yuck lo-o-ve you guys!!!! Oac, I think you cost us the top hot-thread ranking by going on vacation will never forgive you man ;-)

Hey, gotta go root for Lefty to win the Claret. Good to see Tiger back in the hunt too. Think I'll nuke some leftover pizza and kick back.

Quiz:

"Hello-o-o ball!"

Who said it? First one with correct answer gets the Designman YoodaMan thumbs up.

ljflx · July 2004

I have two Lexi, my mom has a Camry and my inlaws have a Camry. What on earth are you talking about? Several other people in my family have Toyotas. They are problem free and the service is excellent. The only thing that ever went wrong was a warning light remaining lit on my mothers car. Service said it has happened on occassion to others and repaired the bulb for free. No one can put words in your mouth and that would be the dumbest marketing program in the world. There's no such spin put on anything let alone in the manner that you are talking about. Give people a little more credit for smarts than that and give a company that earns $12bln a lot more business smarts credit.

Now how about VW - with all their major problems the last few years trying to BS the consumer on the ignition coils.

Designman - Oh the Honeymooners - just bought the 39 episodes on DVD. Remember the best line about rags to riches - "be kind to the people you meet on the way up - because you're gonna meet the same people - on the way down". What was the episode? The golfing episode was classic - but I also loved "Kranmars delicious mystery appetizer" and the $64,000 answer.

quemfala · July 2004

Gee, how about putting the gas cap in between! I think someone did that about 20 years ago!!! Or, put one on EACH side! But, who cares! Maybe it's a problem remembering which side it's on. Put a post-it on the dash with a big, red arrow indicating where it is.
Have fun! Life is Better at the Beach

lexusguy · July 2004

" a Corolla is something you drive if you can't afford a Golf. But in the US a corolla is considered a status symbol in some circles. I don't get it."

Funny, here you buy a Corolla because you dont want your car to be in the shop more than its in your driveway. Your statements are rediculous. Toyota's sparkling reputation is based on product, not extorting stupid people. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan have all made recalls when necessary. Several forum users have complained about the '00-'03 Acura transmission issue, and Honda made the necessary steps including replacing the transmissions and warrantying them for 100K miles. They did not tell people it was their fault because they were driving their cars too hard. Toyota has EARNED its number 1 status, just like VW has earned its last place status with cars that are a joke when it comes to actually working correctly. I suppose when Audi chose to ignore shipments of faulty, rusted brake rotors and put them on A6s anyway, that was VW being "responsible"? Ask the PA\NJ lemon law firm, and they'll tell you the A6 was one of the worst cars Audi\VW has ever done. There are all kinds of things on that car Audi never told anyone about.

dieselbreath · July 2004

I have a VW truck that is 12 years old and has been in the shop as the result of 2 accidents. (the S-10 pickup that rear-ended me at a cross-walk was totalled). Its been to Mexico and back, spent more time off-road than on for its first few years.
... so Toyota isn't the only one who builds cars that work without service. EVERY maker does!

As for VW's ignition coil bungle. Stupidest action they've done in years!!!

The A6-2.8v6 ... worst product in the last decade from VW/Audi, but I've met people with them that haven't had a single fault.

Now have any of you talked to a Toyota service manager?

thomsonc · July 2004

I am close to purchasing a 1996 750il and I was curious to know if anyone knew where I might find figures on the number of 750's and 740's produced each year by BMW. I had heard from someone an incredably low number on 750's produced for that year but it seemed too low in my opinion.

Also, does anyone know the difference between the 750il for 1995 & 1996? Thanks.

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