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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    Audi's may sell at a discount and their Quality may be Kia, landrover VW, but they are good driving machines. Other than the FWD A6.

    Why do people criticise the Seville and forgive the A6 for being FWD? I do not get it
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "Doe it matter if it’s Styrofoam, or does it matter that Lexus is the industry standard in quietness? Only Cadillac and Buick come close"

    Good point. Lexus cars are so quiet at idle, you have to look at the tach to even know if the engine is on. That stryofoam sure must be doing a good job.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Member Posts: 491
    Ah, the 330. We're discussing wonderful cars in ths forum, but if I had to nominate a "best car", my vote would go to the BMW 330. It's nimble around to be genuine fun when you throw it around, feline in reflexes, the I6 is one of the top engines in the automitive world, it is ergonomically flawless, offers great comfort, and well built. Being non-practical, I would have taken mine in coupe form. Alas, you see just too damn many of them in the Bay Area. There is no way I could do that. I wonder how many other people out there are like me and start to move away from brands when they stop to stand for a modicum of individuality, and become the choice de rigeur...
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    Lexus definately doesn't use styrofoam behind the body panels. In fact I don't think any carmaker uses styrofoam in great amounts for sound deadening.

    One technology Lexus uses to deaden sound is 3-layer sandwiched steel, 2 thin layers of metal and in between is a metallic sound deadening material. It's mainly used around the cabin(front firewall, under the passenger compartment, between rear wheelwells).
  • pablo_lpablo_l Member Posts: 491
    I think every car maker inject "foam" materials into panels for sound insulation - they'd be stupid not to, since short of vacuum industrial "foams" are the best insulator there is, and they provide serious fire protection to boot. Steel alone won't provide satisfactory sound insulation, so I very much doubt Lexus limits itself to it. Note that "foam" comes in many industrial forms, even though we automatically think box material. See http://www.basf.de/basf/html/plastics/englisch/pages/schaum/basot- - ect.htm
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    But.. but Audibob said they did! He also said that used Audis actually go up in value like classic Ferraris, and that Audi uses extruded magic fairy dust as sound insulation in their cars.
  • mbukukanyaumbukukanyau Member Posts: 200
    Cadillac & Buick (Rainer/La Crosse)are using something called Quite steel, with a sound abosbingh Gel around it. Quite impressive technology I might say
  • pablo_lpablo_l Member Posts: 491
    I think they all use different technologies for different parts of the car for sound insulation. They don't stick to *one* method all over the car, because different things provide -as often- optimized results. Everybody feel free to investigate their car somewhat.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "Cadillac & Buick (Rainer/La Crosse)are using something called Quite steel, with a sound abosbingh Gel around it. Quite impressive technology I might say"

    Too bad the rest of the Raineer is a Chevy Tahoe.
  • jiaminjiamin Member Posts: 556
    I remember two things from the event of Lexus Taste of Luxury that Lexus uses to quiet the car. One is the dimpled panel underneath the car. The other is multi-layer metal with something in between, compared to another piece of regular metal. I knocked at both. The multi-layer metal sounds so quiet. Very impressive.

    I didn't have much time that day to test drive MB, BMW, etc. Only tested LS430, ES330, GS430 and Acura TL. LS430 is the quietes, and the others are not too far behind.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    The Rainier is a Chevy Trailblazer/GMC Envoy.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    "Fairy dust"....funny!! Very funny!!
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Member Posts: 120
    there were 'bimmers there and you didn't drive one? I wouldn't want to be driving the quietest car at a ride and drive event unless I was picking out a car for my 64 year old mom. Then again maybe there was no spirited driving allowed at this Lexus Taste of Luxury.

    I look for audibob to be back with a vengeance any second here. He's probably in a motivational sales meeting right now.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Livingbmw:

    Obviously with a mom that young you must be very young yourself...I don't think anyone on this board resents your relative youth and inexperience, you have a right to prefer any car you wish...Heck, some people liked yugo's.
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Member Posts: 120
    Very young ............ indeed, born in '67. I like that. Here's a few cars that I like that are (gasp) not BMW's:

     Toyota Supra, Acura NSX, Toyota 4Runner, Aston Martin Vantage, Ferarri Enzo, Benz SLK, Porsche 911, and, yeah, the Rolls Royce Phantom (or does that count as a 'bimmer).
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    You're officially an old goat when Uncle Sam doesn't want you anymore. This thread should be renamed "Old goats with nothing better to do". And if you think otherwise, go back to last Saturday night when the hot topic of conversation was positioning of the gas hatch. You have to admit it, we all have to get a life.

    ;-)
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    So you like a nice firm riding sports car...What year Phantom (it may or may not count as a BMW.)

    I thought I was all grown up at 21 and 31 and 37...I was wrong but we all mature at different rates.
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    designman:

    I wonder who introduced that gas filler topic???Hmmmmmmm
  • quemfalaquemfala Member Posts: 107
    Come on now, be nice! I don't like it when people tlk aboutt mi drnkin problime
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hey folks, could we get back to the subject? We're here to talk about the marques, not each other.

    Thanks.
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Member Posts: 120
    Sensibility is probably the best part of maturity.

    How 'bout the Phantom Continental from '36? That's a good one. I sure would like to drive the new one, though or that 100EX is certainly going beyond the "ultimate".
  • michael_mattoxmichael_mattox Member Posts: 813
    Would the 1933 phantom have been built by BMW?

    Actually knowing yourself and learning to think with your mind instead of reacting to your sensabilities (heart) would be my idea of the better part of maturity.
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Member Posts: 120
    BMW got in the Rolls Royce business in '98. That had to be a lot better than being owned by volkswagen for such a prestigious name plate. Frederick Henry Royce designed this version of the Phantom himself.
  • mmccloskeymmccloskey Member Posts: 168
    Greetings:

    There was mention by 'AudiBob' about the 2002-2004 ES300/330 having styrofoam as sound insulation in the front door area. I checked my 2002 ES300 and there is, in fact a long, black styrofoam insert between the inner and outer fender. I have provided a visual reference. It is unlikely this is for sound insulation as the insert is not secured/fixed in place. It moves slightly if I press my finger against it. I then checked my other vehicle (2003 Explorer Sport Trac) and it also has an insert in a similar location although it is soft foam, not rigid styrofoam. I would assume these inserts are there to provide a visual filler between the inner and outer fender, not for sound reducing. I also noted that behind the rear bumper of my ES300 there is a large piece of styrofoam just behind the outer bumper cover.

    It really is a shame that someone must belittle another manufacturer for using 'foam' as a component in one of their vehicles. I'm sure if we really examined all the materials that went into making the cars we drive, there may be other items that certainly wouldn't convey Luxury, Prestige or Status.

    Even though I don't own a 'High End Luxury Marque' I have enjoyed reading this and other forums. Keep up the good fight!

    Regards -

    M.J. McCloskey
    image
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The 4Runner is a bit different from the rest of the vehicles in that list. Why that one? And just curious, how do you feel about the GX470?
  • livinbmwlivinbmw Member Posts: 120
    The early 90's version of the 4Runner is a vehicle that I've had some great experiences with and it is just such a stout little stud that looks the part. I actually am partial to that little toyota 4x4, pre-tacoma. The GX is a little on the big size for me even though it's without a doubt the choice for someone looking at that premium SUV segment where you need the 3rd rear seat.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Was just wondering because, as Im sure you're aware, the GX is the Lexus version of the 4Runner.
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hi All,
      Things have cooled down here somewhat..I'm visiting London at the moment and was surprised at the Lack of Lexus cars here. I've seen an odd GS around but no LS cars whatsoever. The roads are dominated by BMWs and MB cars as well as Jaguars.
       With all the talk of shameless copying...I saw a Rover 75 that looked like complete clone of the S type Jaguar. Absolutely ridiculous. I also noted the great variety of engine types on the Mercedes cars. Why would anyone want an E220? If you've got the $$$ to buy a MB to begin with, I doubt the price of gasoline is a real deterrant.

    SV
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    The car connection just did a review of the LS 430 and seems to think it is the best luxury car out there:

    "You can make a case for either of the German competitors' dynamics or the English Jaguar's styling, but the truth is that right now there's no better luxury car on Earth than the Japanese-made Lexus LS 430."

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7351&sid=18- - - - 3&n=157
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    They have it right. It is one phenomenal car - second to none in the segment. I would say about Lexus what I say about the best business people I come across - "They know what they're doing - glad I'm not competing with them."
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    Now if they could only get the styling right...
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I love the looks of my car. The sharpened edges on the 2004 are a definite improvement over 2001. The car looks awesome to me in black and flint mica and very good in just about any color. If you mean a more sport look then that will come in 2006. But I still think the 1995-2000 LS is the best looker of all and a classic timeless luxury car among any lux sedan.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    I think the current '04 LS430 looks good too. And so did the 2nd generation, especially the 98-2000 LS400. I just wish that it was more distinctive, that it had it's own style completely through. The current LS430 is pretty nice, but the rear(C-pillar and rearward) looks a little like the old S-class Benz.

    My accountant was over last week and he just got a new 2004 LS430 to replace a 00 LS400 that was totalled. Looks nice up close. The new frontend is a big improvement over the 01-03 front end.
    The rearend looks a bit better and the wheels are a gigantic improvement over the 01-03 flat dish wheels.
  • pablo_lpablo_l Member Posts: 491
    > Why would anyone want an E220? If you've got the $$$ to buy a MB
    > to begin with, I doubt the price of gasoline is a real deterrant.

    A combination of things - most of these cars in Europe are part of professionals' compensation, and you get a car leasing allowance. A big cost element are the emission-based taxes for the car, which encourage smaller cars and very heavily penalize larger engines. Most people prefer to simply stick with their allowance and don't take potential liabilities on - you get taxed based on car emissions for your personal miles on the car, again quite heavily. Thus the very clear tendency towards smaller engines in Europe.

    It's a matter of personal preference - some chose to pay out of their pocket to get a larger engine. I know when I was there in the early 90s, the company offered an allowance that covered for a BMW 318. I got a barebone 318is coupe with a nice revvy 4 cylinder engine, and it was a very good car. Most of my colleagues picked the 320i with the base 6 cyclinder engine, and paid about $100+ extra a month plus the gas out of their own pocket, which I prefered to spend on food. :-) By the way, my barebones 318is -since it was Germany I didn't even get aircon, which means I stayed under allowance and saved the company some bucks- was noticable faster than the 320i with aircon, and in my opinion much more fun to drive due to the fact it was very nimble without the added weight of the aircon and 6-cyl engine.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    image
    image

    Basically, I think the LS needs some length, a lower greenhouse, and the lamps finessed. I love big ol' luxury battleships... tried to illustrate this here. Let me know what you think.

    ;-)
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    My2cents

    Nice photoshop work!

    The original is better proportioned both in the picture and in reality.

    The photoshopped version has the "I just got squashed Audi A8" look.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Supposedly the 2006 will have a LWB version.

    Great work.

    Do you like the LS430?
  • a_traina_train Member Posts: 2
    Does anyone have a photo of an LS with the saddle interior? I have seen the SC with saddle and like it; wondering how the larger interior of the LS looks with it. (I already searched edmunds, eBay, autotrader, and cars.com for photos -- no dice.) Thanks ahead of time for posting!
  • pablo_lpablo_l Member Posts: 491
    Very subtle revisions, which corporate bosses would love since it leverages established identity. Of course, detractors of the current design would not be persuaded by very subtle tweaks - but the big problem with a major revision is that you might alienate an existing customer base that is sold on the existing concept and will stay loyal as long as you don't screw around with the recipe. Just ask BMW... :-)

    I think the luxury sedan world has 2 schools of thought: the first one is the school of stealth & understatement, to which Mercedes used to belong until the new S-class came out. Interestingly, the previous generation 7 series also competed with Mercedes on conservative ground. Lexus undoubtedly has remained a clear proponent of conservative design. VW's Phaeton clearly follows that school of thought as well. Audi's A8 also does, even if in the non-stretch version it has a somewhat more dynamic look.

    Then there's the school of "look at me", which ranges from merely some more ornate elements to the downright flamboyant. The current generation S-class now looks conservative, but it was regarded as a risque design when it came out. People weren't used to that from MB. BMW of course has gone all the way with the Bangle 7. I'd also say the new Jag XJ is a bit more ornate than the cars in the first group.
  • hjcanterhjcanter Member Posts: 31
    The Lexus website has a pic on it. You have to look at the interior pictures and change the color. That pic of the interior looks pretty good.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Lexus scales back color options and combos late in the model year - from April or May on. Saddle may not even be available. You may have to wait till 2005 - assuming they will still offer it. I don't like it on the SC or LS as I find it too "orangy". But that's just my taste. I haven't seen it on a new LS but did see it on a 2000 LS that was certified in the showroom. I've seen it often on the SC though. It's better looking on the SC in my opinion because of the smaller area coverage.
  • a_traina_train Member Posts: 2
    Thanks, hjcanter.
    However, I'm looking for an interior shot that shows a better angle of the entire interior. Not expecting a perfect photo, but something that gives a better feel than the Lexus site, which only shows the front seats / dash area. The SC looks good in saddle given its smaller interior, so the saddle does not become too strong a color. My only concern is whether the saddle is a bit too in-your-face when in the larger LS interior. Assuming saddle is still available, this would be for an '05. Any photos, anyone? Thank you.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Footie… "squashed A8 look"… that's funny… actually, I think the previous generation A8 was one of the best sedan styles ever made! Don't like the new one though, it's too rough-hewn IMO.

    Ljflx… yes, there are a lot of things I like about the LS… interior, reliability, and of course the passion of all you Lexus nut jobs ;-)… I find the exterior only acceptable though… I'm rooting for the next design bigtime… want to see the longer wheel base and finer features. BTW, with this pedestrian safety BS I'm not sure how much we can expect.

    A Train… are you a Duke Ellington fan or just stuck with a certain daily NYC itinerary? FWIW I like all earth-tone interiors, particularly saddle. I don't know the ins and outs of Lexus but according to the website it seems saddle isn't offered with the LS. If it is available however I wouldn't hesitate a minute to get it but not with black or blue. You pay a premium to get saddle (aka brown) with a Porsche. I think it works great with a medium grey metallic exterior… Briarwood, Cypress and Mystic Gold and the silvers on the LS… YES THE SILVERS!
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Been away for a while, so I'm responding to your post #6168. You're right there has been a whopping 175 posts since I last checked in. The reply button used to include the post # you were replying to, I wonder what happened to that feature?

    Anyway...guess what configuration Porsche sells the most of when it comes to 911s? The 911 C4S in tiptronic from!

    No I don't think you're anti-German, but I'm the same way when it comes to German cars compared to Lexus because most (not all) of the Lexi's that rag on German cars here have never even driven or owned a Mercedes, BMW or Audi, yet claim that they're such piss-poor cars, and all of their harping is based on three things, JDP, CR and the WSJ. I couldn't believe it when a LS430 owner came up with so many excuses and so much pure bs to defend what truly was a awful car, a certain Cadillac that was debated a few weeks back. This is the knowledge base I'm supposed to rely on to tell me which car is "best". I don't think so.

    Please don't lump me in with posters like audibob.

    You think Lexuses are great, obviously others don't think so, it is all personal preference beyonds the surveyed factuals. You tend to talk about stereos, navs and reliability and fans of other brands simply don't place those things as high as styling or driving pleasure, and they tend to define the latter differently. Nav systems and great stereos don't define luxury for everyone, nor is that all to it. What gets me about some Lexus folk is that they seem to think that their criteria for a luxury car is the bible and written in stone and that every car should be as detached from the driving experience like a LS430 or ES330, which are Lexuses biggest sellers are brand-identity cars. The IS300 might put down the numbers of a 3-Series, but the car has been complete commercial flop. Why? Because Lexus buyers simply don't care about a BMW-like car. Something I tried to articulate at the start of this BMW vs. Lexus outbreak. Ditto for the GS. Not even your friend with all the sales rhetoric can deny this. Porsche can help Lexus with the GS, but Lexus' values of smoothness and silence aren't going to be thrown away in the name of handling, so I hardly expect the new GS to do anything to the 5-Series on the track or in the showroom. Furthermore the IS300 is an totally icomplete car compared to the 3-Series. It is too small and has what I'll be nice and call a very un-Lexus-like interior.

    I've always said Lexuses were "quality" and if you don't care about a how a car looks or drives, then by all means. If you want something that doesn't put you to sleep, look elsewhere.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Mike you're run out of gas give it a rest. You're quoting things I never said in the first place.. You're confused and lost, again.

    If a Mercedes wasn't confortable when in the hell did people buy so many of them then? Say you didnt' find them comfortable. That goes along with you not being able to "fit" into the SL so you bought an Allante. Makes sense.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Please stop, you're embarrasing my favorite underdog brand - Audi.

    If you're a Audi salesman you'd know the Audis most emphatically do not sell at sticker price. That is an absurdity along the lines of some of this Lexi stuff I'm reading.

    Audi has the worst reliablity of the three German luxury brands. I say this based not only surveys, but on personal experience. The previous generation A8 will drop a trans much faster than any S-Class or 7-Series.

    I personally think Audi's styling makes Lexuses and Acuras look like lawnmowers and refrigerators, but the reliability of the residuals and of the Japanese brands can't be compared to with Audi's right now. Some of the things I just spend the last 30 mins reading here from you are plum no-contests from Audi compared to Lexus, and even BMW or Mercedes.

    Audi kills them in design inside and out, this has been stated over and over, including VW by the automotive industry, but those bad things about them have been equally stated.

    Argue Audi's racing heritage, Quattro, styling, price, free maintanence, but lay off the other stuff.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    All of that is pretty much wild speculation on your part about Cadillac. When Cadillac actually builds an SL55 or M5 killer I'll be one of the first to (grudgingly) admit it. Mercedes has no rivals in the current hp war going on in Germany/Europe, at least among the luxury car makers. Cadillac is about 200hp short already compared to Mercedes biggest hi-po offerings.

    designman,

    Nothing will help the LS430's styling. The 2004 facelift made the car look worse to me, especially in the front. It looks like someone just tacked the grille on afterwards. It is as homely a car there ever was that cost so much, imo. The W140 looked better when it was introduced.

    M
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Fact is, all of the luxury battleships are struggling in the bathing suit segment. Winner XJ, no contest. Personally, I don't see how anyone can knock the LS and defend the S. The whole MB lineup looks American. At least the LS resembles what a Mercedes is supposed to look like. W140 is a box. Most of today's cars need serious help.

    IMO Acura did a great job with the new RL. There's a lot of chatter about the "Bangle" trunk lid. What everyone fails to realize is that it came from Honda first in the mid-90s Accord (I think), then was followed up by Chrysler with Cirrus, Stratus etc, and THEN the Bangle disasters. Personally, I think this look was originally influenced by the pill-box-flat-top haircuts that the basketball players made popular in the early 90s.

    "Don't the girls all get prettier at closing time."

    Mickey Gilley

     
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    We'll just have to agree to disagree there. The current S-Class shames the bloated wannabe W140 S-Class LS430 in styling, imo. That is a no-contest for me. A Mercedes is never supposed to be ungainly or homely looking like the LS. My pick for a styling winner in the segment would be the A8L.

    Mercedes' lineup looks "American"? Uh...ok.

    M
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I'll pull the opposite on you. I'll bet most critics of an LS430 have never sat behind the wheel of one. I'll also bet that many LS430 buyers have owned MB E or S class cars before. Do I have statistics - no. Just my feeling because its the situation with the people I know and I'd bet it's representative of a large part of the buying group.

    Have you truly ever driven an LS430? You said so in some post not too long ago but I never remember reading about any driving experience you had. I know you've said you drove LS400's in the past but the LS430 is a different animal than the LS400, far tighter, better handling with excellent driving dynamics. So if your basis is the LS400 you are far off the mark. I've driven S-class cars pretty often and there is hardly any different feel than an LS430 in my experience.
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