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Comments
Why do people criticise the Seville and forgive the A6 for being FWD? I do not get it
Good point. Lexus cars are so quiet at idle, you have to look at the tach to even know if the engine is on. That stryofoam sure must be doing a good job.
One technology Lexus uses to deaden sound is 3-layer sandwiched steel, 2 thin layers of metal and in between is a metallic sound deadening material. It's mainly used around the cabin(front firewall, under the passenger compartment, between rear wheelwells).
Too bad the rest of the Raineer is a Chevy Tahoe.
I didn't have much time that day to test drive MB, BMW, etc. Only tested LS430, ES330, GS430 and Acura TL. LS430 is the quietes, and the others are not too far behind.
I look for audibob to be back with a vengeance any second here. He's probably in a motivational sales meeting right now.
Obviously with a mom that young you must be very young yourself...I don't think anyone on this board resents your relative youth and inexperience, you have a right to prefer any car you wish...Heck, some people liked yugo's.
Toyota Supra, Acura NSX, Toyota 4Runner, Aston Martin Vantage, Ferarri Enzo, Benz SLK, Porsche 911, and, yeah, the Rolls Royce Phantom (or does that count as a 'bimmer).
;-)
I thought I was all grown up at 21 and 31 and 37...I was wrong but we all mature at different rates.
I wonder who introduced that gas filler topic???Hmmmmmmm
Thanks.
How 'bout the Phantom Continental from '36? That's a good one. I sure would like to drive the new one, though or that 100EX is certainly going beyond the "ultimate".
Actually knowing yourself and learning to think with your mind instead of reacting to your sensabilities (heart) would be my idea of the better part of maturity.
There was mention by 'AudiBob' about the 2002-2004 ES300/330 having styrofoam as sound insulation in the front door area. I checked my 2002 ES300 and there is, in fact a long, black styrofoam insert between the inner and outer fender. I have provided a visual reference. It is unlikely this is for sound insulation as the insert is not secured/fixed in place. It moves slightly if I press my finger against it. I then checked my other vehicle (2003 Explorer Sport Trac) and it also has an insert in a similar location although it is soft foam, not rigid styrofoam. I would assume these inserts are there to provide a visual filler between the inner and outer fender, not for sound reducing. I also noted that behind the rear bumper of my ES300 there is a large piece of styrofoam just behind the outer bumper cover.
It really is a shame that someone must belittle another manufacturer for using 'foam' as a component in one of their vehicles. I'm sure if we really examined all the materials that went into making the cars we drive, there may be other items that certainly wouldn't convey Luxury, Prestige or Status.
Even though I don't own a 'High End Luxury Marque' I have enjoyed reading this and other forums. Keep up the good fight!
Regards -
M.J. McCloskey
Things have cooled down here somewhat..I'm visiting London at the moment and was surprised at the Lack of Lexus cars here. I've seen an odd GS around but no LS cars whatsoever. The roads are dominated by BMWs and MB cars as well as Jaguars.
With all the talk of shameless copying...I saw a Rover 75 that looked like complete clone of the S type Jaguar. Absolutely ridiculous. I also noted the great variety of engine types on the Mercedes cars. Why would anyone want an E220? If you've got the $$$ to buy a MB to begin with, I doubt the price of gasoline is a real deterrant.
SV
"You can make a case for either of the German competitors' dynamics or the English Jaguar's styling, but the truth is that right now there's no better luxury car on Earth than the Japanese-made Lexus LS 430."
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7351&sid=18- - - - 3&n=157
My accountant was over last week and he just got a new 2004 LS430 to replace a 00 LS400 that was totalled. Looks nice up close. The new frontend is a big improvement over the 01-03 front end.
The rearend looks a bit better and the wheels are a gigantic improvement over the 01-03 flat dish wheels.
> to begin with, I doubt the price of gasoline is a real deterrant.
A combination of things - most of these cars in Europe are part of professionals' compensation, and you get a car leasing allowance. A big cost element are the emission-based taxes for the car, which encourage smaller cars and very heavily penalize larger engines. Most people prefer to simply stick with their allowance and don't take potential liabilities on - you get taxed based on car emissions for your personal miles on the car, again quite heavily. Thus the very clear tendency towards smaller engines in Europe.
It's a matter of personal preference - some chose to pay out of their pocket to get a larger engine. I know when I was there in the early 90s, the company offered an allowance that covered for a BMW 318. I got a barebone 318is coupe with a nice revvy 4 cylinder engine, and it was a very good car. Most of my colleagues picked the 320i with the base 6 cyclinder engine, and paid about $100+ extra a month plus the gas out of their own pocket, which I prefered to spend on food. :-) By the way, my barebones 318is -since it was Germany I didn't even get aircon, which means I stayed under allowance and saved the company some bucks- was noticable faster than the 320i with aircon, and in my opinion much more fun to drive due to the fact it was very nimble without the added weight of the aircon and 6-cyl engine.
Basically, I think the LS needs some length, a lower greenhouse, and the lamps finessed. I love big ol' luxury battleships... tried to illustrate this here. Let me know what you think.
;-)
Nice photoshop work!
The original is better proportioned both in the picture and in reality.
The photoshopped version has the "I just got squashed Audi A8" look.
Great work.
Do you like the LS430?
I think the luxury sedan world has 2 schools of thought: the first one is the school of stealth & understatement, to which Mercedes used to belong until the new S-class came out. Interestingly, the previous generation 7 series also competed with Mercedes on conservative ground. Lexus undoubtedly has remained a clear proponent of conservative design. VW's Phaeton clearly follows that school of thought as well. Audi's A8 also does, even if in the non-stretch version it has a somewhat more dynamic look.
Then there's the school of "look at me", which ranges from merely some more ornate elements to the downright flamboyant. The current generation S-class now looks conservative, but it was regarded as a risque design when it came out. People weren't used to that from MB. BMW of course has gone all the way with the Bangle 7. I'd also say the new Jag XJ is a bit more ornate than the cars in the first group.
However, I'm looking for an interior shot that shows a better angle of the entire interior. Not expecting a perfect photo, but something that gives a better feel than the Lexus site, which only shows the front seats / dash area. The SC looks good in saddle given its smaller interior, so the saddle does not become too strong a color. My only concern is whether the saddle is a bit too in-your-face when in the larger LS interior. Assuming saddle is still available, this would be for an '05. Any photos, anyone? Thank you.
Ljflx yes, there are a lot of things I like about the LS interior, reliability, and of course the passion of all you Lexus nut jobs ;-) I find the exterior only acceptable though I'm rooting for the next design bigtime want to see the longer wheel base and finer features. BTW, with this pedestrian safety BS I'm not sure how much we can expect.
A Train are you a Duke Ellington fan or just stuck with a certain daily NYC itinerary? FWIW I like all earth-tone interiors, particularly saddle. I don't know the ins and outs of Lexus but according to the website it seems saddle isn't offered with the LS. If it is available however I wouldn't hesitate a minute to get it but not with black or blue. You pay a premium to get saddle (aka brown) with a Porsche. I think it works great with a medium grey metallic exterior Briarwood, Cypress and Mystic Gold and the silvers on the LS YES THE SILVERS!
Anyway...guess what configuration Porsche sells the most of when it comes to 911s? The 911 C4S in tiptronic from!
No I don't think you're anti-German, but I'm the same way when it comes to German cars compared to Lexus because most (not all) of the Lexi's that rag on German cars here have never even driven or owned a Mercedes, BMW or Audi, yet claim that they're such piss-poor cars, and all of their harping is based on three things, JDP, CR and the WSJ. I couldn't believe it when a LS430 owner came up with so many excuses and so much pure bs to defend what truly was a awful car, a certain Cadillac that was debated a few weeks back. This is the knowledge base I'm supposed to rely on to tell me which car is "best". I don't think so.
Please don't lump me in with posters like audibob.
You think Lexuses are great, obviously others don't think so, it is all personal preference beyonds the surveyed factuals. You tend to talk about stereos, navs and reliability and fans of other brands simply don't place those things as high as styling or driving pleasure, and they tend to define the latter differently. Nav systems and great stereos don't define luxury for everyone, nor is that all to it. What gets me about some Lexus folk is that they seem to think that their criteria for a luxury car is the bible and written in stone and that every car should be as detached from the driving experience like a LS430 or ES330, which are Lexuses biggest sellers are brand-identity cars. The IS300 might put down the numbers of a 3-Series, but the car has been complete commercial flop. Why? Because Lexus buyers simply don't care about a BMW-like car. Something I tried to articulate at the start of this BMW vs. Lexus outbreak. Ditto for the GS. Not even your friend with all the sales rhetoric can deny this. Porsche can help Lexus with the GS, but Lexus' values of smoothness and silence aren't going to be thrown away in the name of handling, so I hardly expect the new GS to do anything to the 5-Series on the track or in the showroom. Furthermore the IS300 is an totally icomplete car compared to the 3-Series. It is too small and has what I'll be nice and call a very un-Lexus-like interior.
I've always said Lexuses were "quality" and if you don't care about a how a car looks or drives, then by all means. If you want something that doesn't put you to sleep, look elsewhere.
M
If a Mercedes wasn't confortable when in the hell did people buy so many of them then? Say you didnt' find them comfortable. That goes along with you not being able to "fit" into the SL so you bought an Allante. Makes sense.
M
If you're a Audi salesman you'd know the Audis most emphatically do not sell at sticker price. That is an absurdity along the lines of some of this Lexi stuff I'm reading.
Audi has the worst reliablity of the three German luxury brands. I say this based not only surveys, but on personal experience. The previous generation A8 will drop a trans much faster than any S-Class or 7-Series.
I personally think Audi's styling makes Lexuses and Acuras look like lawnmowers and refrigerators, but the reliability of the residuals and of the Japanese brands can't be compared to with Audi's right now. Some of the things I just spend the last 30 mins reading here from you are plum no-contests from Audi compared to Lexus, and even BMW or Mercedes.
Audi kills them in design inside and out, this has been stated over and over, including VW by the automotive industry, but those bad things about them have been equally stated.
Argue Audi's racing heritage, Quattro, styling, price, free maintanence, but lay off the other stuff.
M
designman,
Nothing will help the LS430's styling. The 2004 facelift made the car look worse to me, especially in the front. It looks like someone just tacked the grille on afterwards. It is as homely a car there ever was that cost so much, imo. The W140 looked better when it was introduced.
M
IMO Acura did a great job with the new RL. There's a lot of chatter about the "Bangle" trunk lid. What everyone fails to realize is that it came from Honda first in the mid-90s Accord (I think), then was followed up by Chrysler with Cirrus, Stratus etc, and THEN the Bangle disasters. Personally, I think this look was originally influenced by the pill-box-flat-top haircuts that the basketball players made popular in the early 90s.
"Don't the girls all get prettier at closing time."
Mickey Gilley
Mercedes' lineup looks "American"? Uh...ok.
M
Have you truly ever driven an LS430? You said so in some post not too long ago but I never remember reading about any driving experience you had. I know you've said you drove LS400's in the past but the LS430 is a different animal than the LS400, far tighter, better handling with excellent driving dynamics. So if your basis is the LS400 you are far off the mark. I've driven S-class cars pretty often and there is hardly any different feel than an LS430 in my experience.