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Aston-Martin, Ferrari, Lambo, Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Panoz.
were not on the list.
mattox, how do you know S/7 were not in the survey? Did you read it anywhere? I didn't!
Perhaps they project future 5 year old BMW's will retain the most value, because current used BMW's retain more value than anything else. Lexus might or might not pass BMW in resale 5 years from now. But how come you think your guess is better than the professionals who're paid to project these things?
These are independent firms that estimate these things. They have access to a lot more data than anecdotal evidence of you & me. Anecdotal evidence can be very misleading, you can always find a Cavalier in mint condition that retains better value than a beat up LS430 of the same age! It's hard, but you can!
There is a list of cars in various catagories over on the right side of the article you linked us to....Non of the Luxury cars we discuss on this board were mentioned as I said.
There was not one line on the car I didn't love.
There have been some previous posts suggesting this car looks like a Sebring. To anyone who sees this car in person and thinks it's a Sebring take-off, my response is these people have been sniffing gas fumes when they fill up their cars.
Was th announcement for all Jag cars or just the XJ?
I fell instantly in love with looks. I would never get an $80K car I didn't love inside and out. Different strokes for different folds.
The new BMW's have a certain "presence" on the road that so many others do not. IMO, their biggest challenge is with the driver/vehicle interface. I miss the cockpit feel I have in my e39.
As long as they are engineered with excellence and built with quality. I wish the only points of contention were the designs!
That post ought to get the juices flowing in the forum again..It's not about who brings it to market first, but who makes it work reliably. MB granted has been great with being first, but Lexus is doing smart business. It's probably why Toyota/Lexus is in the best shape financially. Why spend all that R/D money? Let someone else do it! What you consider "Best" is simply a subjective argument.
SV
For the BMW 7 and Audi A8 (both cars I like but can't afford) the L versions are 5 inches longer and that translates into 5 inches more rear seat legroom. Has anyone sat in a XJ8 L or have any ideas on this?
For the BMW 7 and Audi A8 (both cars I like but can't afford) the L versions are 5 inches longer and that translates into 5 inches more rear seat legroom. Has anyone sat in a XJ8 L or have any ideas on this?
It has been pouring rain up here in Western N.C.The Lexus has not had a leak, but the road under it is in bad shape, and had to move it to the otherside of the river so it doesn`t get swept away. Miserable conditions the last few days Tony
1. They are eliminating free maintenance during the warranty period starting with 2005 models. The program was launched four years ago. Mercedes claims owners often got confused because normal wear and tear items still had to be paid for. Dealers will also start offering maintenance packages.
2. All-wheel drive is being offered at no charge on 2005 S430 and S500 models to help boost sales before the redesign comes in early 2006. Although it is normally a $2,900 option, the S430's price has gone up by $1,050 for 2005, and the S500 by $1,200.
Seriously - Let's hope he's OK. He's a young guy and the board's not the same without him.
Tony the bad news is that Ivan looks also to be destined to hit the gulf or even the west coast of Florida as a category 4 or 5 storm late this weekend and will also ride up the eastern seaboard. Most of the rain has missed me to the west, north (4-7" in the NYC area) and east as it has come in off the atlantic. Be glad there haven't been any tornados as Frances has caused around 100 of them.
Anyway, I couldn't help but think of all the conversations around here about Mercedes hitting the skids. You'd never know it out there. BMW and Lexus sedans were hard-to-find. Most of my BMW sightings were previous-generation 7s. Lexus SUVs and X5s were abundant but I hardly saw any LSs. Lots of Ss, SLs, CLK cabs, 911s, gorgeous vintage SLs and more than enough Ferraris. I remember plenty of Jags from yesteryear but didn't see many this time.
Ljflx caught Frankie Valli in concert in Westhampton one night. The old goat doesn't have the enduring panache of Jagger but it was worth it nonetheless. He did most of the songs I was weaned on but to my dismay he didn’t do "Marlena" br-r-r-r-r-oop dupe doobie doop, doop dee doobie doo. He was beckoning people to sing along but the crowd was littered with reserved types who seemed to be above that sort of thing. But this boy and his goyle (wife) who grew up in Dion country were right on it trying to hit his high notes, voices cracking like drunken sailors. It seems he even brought the songs down a few keys because they'd probably have to cart him away in an ambulance if he tried to hit those original high notes.
Hey what's your read on the new 3 series and the new Lexus GS?
I don't buy Lexus going after BMW. Why mess with the great success they've had. They will tune-up the GS and IS handling and sportiness and definitely improve car sales a lot (probably at some expense to BMW) but I don't see an image change to chase down BMW. Dumb business and I think what their intent is was misunderstood. By the way I don't like the new 3 series at all and wonder how anyone sees it as a lower Bangle effect. To me it's a shrunken 5 series and the crease (that's what it looks like to me) on the side looks cheap. Bangle must hate smooth even flowing cars and he must love the disjointed look. I do know a few people though that hated the old 7 series style and think the new one gives it the massive look that a big lux car needs. But the funny anecdote to that is these same people hate that same bulgy look on the 5 series. Go figure. Personally I think the 7 is beautiful up to the front passenger door and then all hell breaks loose. But in the rear view mirror it looks great.
Also, the sales rep didn't mention about the 4matic no cost option. When I went back and asked him, he claimed that he didn't even know about this. I had to show him the MB USA website! Yeah, sure.
Ricky
Monrovia, California, USA
There aren't too many 4 Seasons songs I don't like. If forced to pick I'd have to go with Working My Way Back to You. Frankie's favorite was Your Just Too Good To Be True which was his first song when he went out on his own.
designman - He does put a lot of emotion into that song and also "my eyes adored you" which is a great song and what I would have guessed was his favorite. I also would be hard pressed to find a Seasons song I didn't like. I also love Stay and even love the way Jackson Brown did it.
Have seen so many MBs here in San Diego especially the high-end ones. Lots of SLs, CLs and CLKs. Not to mention countless 3s and 5s everywhere. Lexus is holding its own pretty well here too. But luxury cars/luxury SUVs/high-end sport cars are huge around here. Way too many nouveau rich guys and gals living here. We are a city defined by what we drive rather than what drives us ! At least thats being my experience in my 6 years living in this city.
With so much talk of the 2006 S, has anyone sighted a 2006/2007 LS preview car anywhere ? Does anyone know when Lexus will start a roadshow for the new LS ?
In all, there's not being much change here, which is a good thing. From time to time, as work lessens over the next few months, I'll stop in here and put in a word or two. Hope you all keep things civil as usual... wink wink... And best to Merc1 wherever he may be.
Personally, I'd take a Lexus or a even a 545 over the Jag in a heartbeat.
Livinbmw... Bangle as man of the year is dubious. I think Hitler was once Time magazine's man of the year, now he's in history's trash bin. If Bush got into body piercing and shaved his head he'd make man (person) of the year also. This is a bad, bad period in BMW history and I believe this will be reflected as such in the future.
Ljflx... Wow, I think the 1-series is another freak of nature. However, I always say the smaller the car, the freakier it can be so by that axiom it may have worked. It's the big luxury cruisers that should be buttoned-down conservative. Hey, remember Freedomland? Saw the Seasons there!
Interesting note.......Bangle's father worked for an aircraft engine manufacturer in Wisconsin that supplied the engines for the P-51 Mustangs that US pilots flew against the BMW Luftwaffe engines that were used by Hitler's pilots in WWII.
Such a "bad period" in which they have surpassed Mercedes in world wide sales.... BMW sets the industry benchmark for both product development and marketing.
The rumored engines being released in the next few years, should have already been options.
The 6 cylinders are probably where there could have been some more recent upgrades. Other makes have ntroduced engines that boast big HP's (in direct response to the segment dominant 3 sereies) but still nothing meets BMW's overall smoothness and performance in my book even if the HP doesn't appear on par with some others in the segment. The 3.0 is still the premier (ULTIMATE) inline 6 in the industry but an overdue upgrade would create a little buzz.
Of course, the Formula 1 inspired V10 is right around the corner.....HOLD ON!!!
Freedomland! We must be the same age. I went there a few times when I was real young. Wasn't that near the Whitestone or Throgs Neck bridge?
Designman: Thanks for the warm, fuzzy welcome. I am no Rambo, I just play one on cyber space.... You can be anything you want to be on this faceless medium. As to work, it is such a pain these days. More M&A, more work and more stress for everyone. This is the 5th acquisition in 4 years. Ever gonna stop ? I guess not. If you cannot grow organically, then acquire. That's the American way !!! Sheesh... Makes talking/chatting/arguing about cars so much refreshing :):)
BMW's not designed for the masses? Come-on now. 3-series leases are barely more than V6LE Camry leases and cheaper than some V6 XLE ones. That's mass territory. Make the BMW legend be whatever you want but its business is selling cars to as many people as possible. The "ultimate driving machine" niche they love to hype and people fall for is called marketing.
Certainly, there is a consciousness of volume but it is more of an outcome based on the vehicle's attributes than a contrived strategy to get more deals. BMW's branding is one that stands for balance, brakes, power-to-weight ratio and over-all road manners.
Branding is an interesting issue in the segment and I think that BMW is more brand conscious and has done more to protect and elevate it's brand image than any other car company in the world.
Here you go again: Branding is an interesting issue in the segment and I think that BMW is more brand conscious and has done more to protect and elevate it's brand image than any other car company in the world
IMO, the highest mass-market car brand today is MB. Followed by everyone else. BMW appeals to more younger folks, but monied people go for the marque brand - Mercedes. Period... If you need a lecture on this, just read back several of Merc1's diatribe on MB and why they rule the world... blah blah blah....
BTW, livingbmw, have you read the recent comments from Denny Clements, Lexus NA General Manager ? He claims Lexus is going after your market... If I were you, I'd be worried.
BMW people and Lexus people are totally different. If Toyota wanted to promote Lexus as a performance brand than they should have made Lexus as a Formula 1 competitor instead of Toyota. The IS300 is a great example of how toyota competes with BMW in the performance segment, total failure.
I'll be worried when I see the Lexus dealer with a bunch of used 540's, 330's,M5's and M3's on the lot.
Very low volume sales in the U.S. and high losses.
Maybe Jaguar should merge with U.S. Air.