High End Luxury Cars

rgsw · March 2005

I copied the following from the Lexus.com safety features for the LS430. If I read it correctly, the LS430 does have "side-curtain airbags" on all LS430s. I know you said "read side airbags", does the "side-curtain airbags" suffice?
Quote: "For added protection, side-curtain airbags [1] run from the front to the rear, across the side windows. We've also equipped the LS with driver's- and passenger's-side knee airbags [1]." end Quote.
Maybe Lexus waites a while to see if the new technology is really going to work before adobting it, thus a better quality rating.

oac · March 2005

Can be found posted at this link

oac, "The Next Lexus IS!" #1317, 11 Mar 2005 12:37 am

If this roadmap holds true, coupled with MB and BMW releases to come, buyers should have plenty to choose from. And maybe provide even more debating issues for die-hard fans on all sides over the coming years....

merc1 · March 2005

That poll just goes to show how much people really know because Lexus and Mercedes sell more high dollar cars than Acura.

M

merc1 · March 2005

Yep they all have a lot on the way, but I think Lexus and Mercedes might have more product on the way than BMW does.

Mercedes' roadmap for 2006 and 2007:

2006 E350 (on sale now, 268hp V6)
2006 E55 Wagon (special order only)

2006 S65 AMG (On sale next month)

2006 CLS500 and CLS55 AMG (on sale now!)

2006 C350 (268hp V6)
2006 C280 (227hp V6)
2006 C230 (200hp V6)
All on sale in June of 2005.

SLK280 (227hp V6) On sale this summer.

ML350 (268hp V6)
ML500 (302hp V8)
Both on sale last week of April 2005

CLK - facelifted model range, including new CLK350. On sale this fall.

R-Class - debuts at New York Autoshow and goes on sale late fall/early winter 2005.

S-Class - debuts at the IAA (Frankfurt Auto Show) in Sept 2005, debuts here at Detroit 2006, goes on sale first quarter of 2006.

2007 and beyond: E, SL facelift w/new V8s for MY2007. Entirely new C-Class for MY2008. New CLK in 2008.

M

syswei · March 2005

What about the G? Also I heard that its going to be just slightly shorter than a Suburban...what do you hear? IMHO that might be a little too big for the luxury market.

designman · March 2005

Regarding the Princess Diana tragedy I would like to point out that the driver wasnt fatally cue-balled by the unrestrained back-seat passengers who were probably projectiles in that crash. This could be testament to the integrity of the front head restraints and seats which I have no doubt is designed into the S. The again, I don't know, was there a privacy partition in that vehicle? That alone could have done them in. Also, it is hard to know what the dynamics were in that incidentthe direction of the forces and level of impactit is virtually impossible to speculate unless it has undergone a thorough engineering analysis which is also speculation, similar to being unable to calculate where pool balls will be positioned after a break. My engineering intuition tells me that because the driver survived there was mostly frontal impact. Surviving lateral forces in a car going that speed is a tough proposition.

The important thing to remember in this safety debate is the original point made when it was started a couple of days ago. With all of MBs reliability problems, it is very reasonable for a buyer to speculate whether safety components are included within their realm of problems. I can easily see how someone focused on safety would raise an eyebrow and say "later for Mercedes"regardless of the truth. That said, I personally believe the safety integrity of the Mercedes helped save the driver in the Princess tragedy and to suggest anything regarding Lexus here is indeed ridiculous.

syswei · March 2005

What CR is saying is that all-red means 'excellent' but NOT relative to all cars of the same model year, its more like relative to all cars in the survey, accross all years. So if you look at every single model in the survey, you see lots and lots of red for 2004 model year cars, but for 1997 models, less red and more black. So if a 2004 model has red but less than other models, especially in categories rated as more important, it still gets an X overall.

pat · March 2005

Once again -- it is time for those of you continuing to argue about the safety issue to agree to disagree and MOVE ON.

If the only way to get you to stop is to remove the posts that continue, that's what I'll do.

Thank you.

ljflx · March 2005

OAC - That $100K+ LS is a done deal. When I brought my car in for service and stopped at the dealership (separate locations for me) I got some new info. The car will be muscular, more sporty and a bit larger and will have 3 engines, the 460 (350HP), a 460 hybrid (450HP) and a V10 hybrid (600HP) for the super LS. Lexus research, despite what anyone on this board thinks they know says no problem whatsoever selling $100-150K cars. Lexus name is very highly regarded in all US research done. By the way the new GS, next LS and new $150K sports car are all Italian designs. Supposedly the front of the $150K sports car will be redone (Lexus wants it's grill on it) but the general sheet metal will be what we have already seen. Jury is out on whether an LS LWB is available in production to just the two larger motors, the super LS or all three cars. Betting is that it will be available to all three. $55K entry price for a car with no options and $58K premium car is finished. Prices will be $65-75K for base LS (ML and nav will all be std. now, you won't be able to get premium car lacking them supposedly), $75-85k for the hybrid and $100-125K for the V10 hybrid. The super LS will come to market at same time as, or a few months behind the next LS based on current planning. New LX470 will be a $70K+ SUV with hybrid options and the GX will also go to hybrid options and get a bit larger in size. RX is an even bigger hit than they ever imagined and they won't mess with it while the ES will get a complete redo with hybrid options there too.

pat · March 2005

Okay, let me amend this.

It is the arguing and the nitpicking about the safety issue that needs to stop. It's the saying the same things over and over to the same people over and over as if the more you post, the more likely it is that the other person will just cave in. And of course that ain't gonna happen from either side.

If we can have a calm and thoughtful conversation without the insistence on fighting about whether Lexus is or is not as safety conscious as MB is, that would be great.

Deal?

merc1 · March 2005

"By the way the new GS, next LS and new $150K sports car are all Italian designs.

Do you know the designer because every article says these were designed by Lexus in Japan, especially that sports car concept. The GS itself started out as an Italian design in 1993, and has since been altered greatly. Lexus is working with an Italian designer, I read that somewhere, but the cars you're seeing now the GS and that sports car concepts aren't of Italian design, if they are thats most unfortunate. The next LS might be though.

All luxury car brands are highly reguarded, at least the ones we discuss on this board, doesn't mean there won't be price resistance. Every brand has their limits.

I'll believe a 600hp Lexus sedan when I see it. I hardly see Toyota approving such a car with such a pointless amount of horsepower.

M

syswei · March 2005

Definitely pointless for me personally, but in terms of helping the brand image, no more pointless than the "S65 - 630hp V12 10/2006" you listed not too many posts ago.

merc1 · March 2005

Right, which I why I don't see why Lexus buyers would get excited about 600hp because it seemed to me any discussion about hp was pointless in the past.

M

syswei · March 2005

If Lexus does put out a 600hp vehicle, they won't sell many, just as MB and BMW don't sell that many V12s. I think none of the companies is doing the extreme vehicles for direct profits, it is more to add luster to the brand...indirect profits.

merc1 · March 2005

Yeah thats true its done for brand luster, but actually Mercedes and BMW do sell a decent number of V12s worldwide, especially Mercedes when you look at all the models they have with a V12, but still nothing near the V8/V6/Diesel versions.

M

ljflx · March 2005

You are talking about a LS super car that will sell 1.5-2K US units a year, based on their research, not a car all Lexus buyers will run to. It's just a halo effect car.

He just said an Italian designer headed up the project of the Lexus sports car and is heading the design of the new LS. Nothing was said about the GS. I meant to say the the LS, LS lwb and sports car. I said GS in error in my earlier post. But in one of the mags I got this week - can't remember which but I'll double check when I get home - they had the sports car shown with name and even a picture of the Italian designer involved.

Meanwhile merc - have you ever driven the Pacifica. I'm Disney world bound and have a chance to rent one. I've never driven it.

merc1 · March 2005

The Pacifica - Nope never driven it. I've sat in it a few times though.

I suspect it won't be to your liking if you're used to a GX470. Its a nice crossover, but some of the interior materials are cheaper than they should be. Beware this is wide and squaty vehicle with smallish side windows like an 80's S-Class. Just like the Chrysler 300. I was amazed at how wide this thing was riding behind one.

M

michael_mattox · March 2005

Merc:

With the Lexus entry WORLD WIDE (could be the reason for the big engine) Mercedes and BMW will sell a lot fewer of these cars...

kdshapiro · March 2005

A hundred posts back, but there was an episode of cops where a Mercedes wiped out at 125, and the driver got out and ran from it. So, so what?

designman · March 2005

Doesnt matter who the designer is or what his cultural influence is. If the design director and the corporate culture of the company handcuff him the chance of design succeeding are severely compromised. Corporate culture does not work in artistic circles, never did, never will. Todays horrible design directions in the automotive world are living proof of this except in boutiques where there is distinct and single-focus vision.

The exception is the Bangle story. The opportunity afforded him was incredible and may never be offered to anyone in his position again. He single-handedly blew it. A true artistic visionary in his unshackled position would have had customers stepping on each other to get at BMWs. The problem is that Bangle is a corporate warrior first, and an artist with very limited talent second.

The Italian designer working for Lexus is Leonardo Fioravanti. He was Pininfarinas chief designer for 24 years and also worked for Ferrari. He is mentioned in an article originally provided by oac. Here is the link again:

http://www.automobear.com/WhatThe2006LexusISIsAndIsnt.html

Who knows how many handcuffs they took off him. If he was the pen behind the GS and IS the results are limited IMO. Looks like the design direction there was take the generic Japanese design of Honda, Mazda, Nissan and try to improve it. Well, SOMEONE screwed up the GS. If you ask me it was the companys corporate grinder. You know, "teamwork" is the specious buzzword.

Cmon Norton. Youre not boomfing right!

pablo_l · March 2005

> .. With the Lexus entry WORLD WIDE ..

They are world-wide. The major market they're not in is Japan itself. It is a commonly held misconception that Lexus does not exist in Europe - it does. Check out www.lexus.de or other European sites. The problem is that Lexus isn't as successful In Europe as it has been in the USA. The aggressive roadmap is in large part to capture a larger share of the European market.

syswei · March 2005

The impression I have is that Europeans are more conscious of brand and status than are Americans. Anyone else agree/disagree?

If true, then Lexus will continue to have a harder time in Europe than in the U.S., and it may be quite a few decades, or never, before they catch the others, sales wise.

pablo_l · March 2005

Disagree quite strongly - car brand is not that big a deal in Europe. That's why MB and BMW can go bring the A class or 1 series to market without "diluting" the brand, as their US operations fear. It's also why VW has been able to appeal upmarket (we're talking the Passat, which is seen as entry luxury in Europe), the Phaeton's downfall is simply that it's not original enough.

kdshapiro · March 2005

Disagree with you. He single handedly changed for the better the direction of one of the worlds most elite symbols. They went from a niche to more of a mass-market (which they needed to do).

But we shall forever debate this as theorists debate how the universe was born.

ljflx · March 2005

Pablo - agree completely with you. The key issue in Europe will be to start building cars there and establish a separate distribution network from Toyota.

ljflx · March 2005

KD - no more disputes on theory of the universe's birth - just the details of the before and immediate after. But if it were up to bangle he'd of put some eyelashes on the first atoms.

oac · March 2005

"But in one of the mags I got this week - can't remember which but I'll double check when I get home - they had the sports car shown with name and even a picture of the Italian designer involved.."

Len: See post #8315, or this link

http://www.automobear.com/WhatThe2006LexusISIsAndIsnt.html

which shows the name AND face of the Italian designer implicated/speculated to have a hand in the L-Finesse direction.

oac · March 2005

Thx, Len, for confirming and/or firming-up some of the info on the roadmap....

If you haven't noticed, let me confirm how excited I am about the new IS350 so much so that I am favoring it over my favorite 330i. And why the IS over a 330 ? simple answer, HP. Can't compare a 300+bhp IS350 against a 255hp 330i ! That is one purchase decision I didn't think I'd be doing for another couple of years, but it appears it may actually precede the '07 LS purchase for me. I am still shopping for the LX for the wife, but have differed that purchase to Sept this year.

The idea is a total revamp of our current household lineups. Replace the '99 LS for the new LS, the '03 Matrix for the new IS350 or 330i, and the '01 Sequoia for the LX. My major beef is that I want the IS or 330i in stick, no auto slush-box for me. But I hear neither BMW or Lexus will bring a stick in their top-line entry-level lux car. That will be sad, really.... 'cos, my goal is to have that car SOLELY for me and keep the spouse from ever wanting to drive it being a manual tranny....

I am going to be looking real hard at these cars/trucks for the next year to see where I go spend my $$$. Gonna be fun tho'.... Oh, I have not put MB or Audi on my shopping list for obvious reasons

syswei · March 2005

I'm not so sure its going to be over 300hp. I've seen somewhere, I can't remember where, speculation that it would be 280hp.

pablo_l · March 2005

There's a big article in Germany's largets car mag, www.autobild.de, on the Lexus product offensive with many pics of the new IS and GS as well as the concept cars. Very impressive, and I must say the new GS is quite an original looker compared to its peers - I like the near hatchback look. I wish someone made a 2 door luxury hatchback, because I'd be all ove such a format that combines sportiness with practicality and dares to look different. Of course Lexus would have to find the other 4 people who'd buy one in the USA. :-) I will be in the market for a mile-eating car in the near future - right now I am pocketing in the car allowance, but after the summer (which seems to have started in CA, ha ha) it will get old to drive and put miles in a convertible or the motorcycle, because it is noisy and at the end of a long day one does notice that it gets tiring. But I am quite clueless as to what to go for, honestly. I heard Audi was going for a lux hatchback, but not until '07 and for over $80k, and given Audi residuals that should make for the type of lease payment that makes you consider buying a tropical island as a conservative financial alternative...

oac · March 2005

Tells me Lexus has Germany's ears and eyes, correct ? If you read this forum, you'd think Lexus is some company that Germany has no need to fear... Disparaging and dis-respecting your competition is one sure way to bankruptcy. MB has felt the Lexus sting before, I hope they don't repeat the same mistakes AGAIN. BMW may not feel Lexus can compete, but I'd like to see a GS430 go against a 545i without the sport package. WOuld the BMW clobber the new GS ? I guess we shall see soon enough.

ljflx · March 2005

OAC - let me tell you a simple thing about an exclusive car for yourself - "it ain't gonna happen". I have fully lost control of my LS430. Wife has completely taken over. Unlike Bill Cosby who didn't know "how I lost it, when I lost it or if I ever had it" (ever see "Himself"), I know precisely when it happened. It all started when I saw the car seat come out of the GX and go into the LS. It went steadily down hill ever since. Full confirmation came a week later when my Walmart DVD system exited the GX and moved into the LS.

The IS looks really great and should do some big sales numbers. I also love the styling of the GS as do many from what I've read and heard. Don't like the new 3 at all. To me it looks like a car that was designed to be big and was compacted down.

I was rather surprised to hear the V10 with a hybrid will likely go into the big LS. I expected it to be a V8+battery. Apparently Lexus is going for big headlines and halo effects as that sports car looks like it's coming also. They will actually have a helluva line-up when all is said and done. I'm curious to see what the SC becomes in 2008. My bet is it will be the hatchback Pablo is talking about.

flyfisher1 · March 2005

What in the heck are you talking about.

flyfisher1 · March 2005

of the new IS. Think about it. Those that like German brands, by and large go for more conservative styling. The new IS (looks way too "boy racer" to me) is an edgy design for a young demographic.
I would think it to be quite normal for there to be considerable differences of opinion as regards styling.
As regards German styling, I follow Audi and can tell you that Audi has put out any number of concept cars over the last several years. Many of which HAVE been copied. For example: the dodge magnum station wagon is strikingly familiar in shape to an Audi styling exercise done ~5 years ago. Look at all of the machined aluminum look. It got much of its influence from the Audi TT concept car.
I could go on...

kdshapiro · March 2005

"The latest issue of C&D just tested the new 3er, w/6mt and ran 0-60 in 5.6 seconds, the 1/4 mile in 14.3 @98 mph. Not too shabby."

Have you seen this? Maybe the new IS will be faster, but HP isn't everything.

oac · March 2005

0-60 in 5.6s with a 255hp I6 ???? quarter-mile @ 98mph ??? That ain't shabby at all..... Geez, I better get my behind off to the BMW shop by April when the '06 Bimmer shows up. I want to put that car through its paces so badly now. I've always known BMW kinda deceives the public on their hp ratings. Their engines are so strong..... Gotta love it. But that exterior and interior styling of the new 3- is a turn-off, but how much I don't know until I see one in person. For now, I'd take an e39 over the e90 anyday.

oac · March 2005

"..let me tell you a simple thing about an exclusive car for yourself - "it ain't gonna happen". I have fully lost control of my LS430. Wife has completely taken over.."

Hehehe....

I hear you. It's slowly but surely happening to my LS as well. It takes a major effort to get my wife to drive the Sequoia. It's either the LS or Matrix. I suggested getting rid of the Seq., but she won't hear of it cos she loves SUVs, just that after driving my LS she feels more comfortable in a lux car than a basic Toyota truck. So I suspect if she gets a Lexus SUV she would let go of my LS and that'll work for both of us.

At least that's the plan, for now

sv7887 · March 2005

Hi Guys,
I feel your pain...Right after I bought my LS430, I had to come here (London) for an extended business trip..My car had 200 miles on it when I left. My wife proudly says there is 1,200 on it now. I should have taken the keys with me. She's paying me back for making her drive a 4 Cylinder Camry. (Hey I thought it would slow her speeding tickets down..)

I think she knows full well what she's doing as I keep getting phone calls telling me how nice MY car is. I can't wait until I get back there next week, "NO Ma'am that's MY car!!!" Oddly enough she didn't take much interest in my Silver '02...I got yelled at for trading it with only 25K miles.."Men and their toys" she groused. Maybe it's the navy blue/white color combo on the new one..

SV

cove148 · March 2005

Still lucky, mine is scared to death of the smart key. I just show her the 4" owners manual and tell her "You ought to know what is in here before driving the car". Works so far.

paldi · March 2005

Is it alive, dead, still breathing?

oac · March 2005

Ahhh..... but can history repeat itself ?

Its now BMW discounting Lexus' global ideas.

http://europe.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=55582

"BMW's Krause said he will consider Lexus a true global rival when it has:
Designs that appeal worldwide
A consistent brand image in markets around the globe
A factory in Europe that can provide tailor-made build-to-order cars, which European premium customers demand."

Hmmmm...."designs that appeal worldwide" ? From a BMW exec ? You gotta be kidding me !!!

Have we seen/heard this before, circa 1988/1989 ?

ljflx · March 2005

Hey OAC - I read thru the 3 series review in R&T and it's real clear where their predjudices lie. Last sentence of the article says it all - "for sure it is still the ultimate driving machine in its class". So you can bet the bank accopunt that the 3-series will win any road comparo with the IS or any other car in the class. They've already committed beforehand without tests of the IS or other cars. I'm sure it's a great car with a great feel but comments like that are what makes me so distrustful of these guys. Sounds like a weather forecaster who declares the first storm of the winter will be the biggest of the winter.

It's clear they don't like the style though. The best they can say is that "the styling is not the least bit offensive". The more I see the 3, the more I think they have screwed this car up to. Frankly I think the IS is the class leader in style once it arrives.

flyfisher1 · March 2005

Terrific post! You showed a wonderful evolution of MB's styling. Looking at your pictures, you make a powerful argument for the MB evolves their models but always remain true to their heritage.
Your Japanese friends, on the other hand, started the Lexus brand by copying MB's iconic styling cues. What interests me is that their new models today (especially the E) are clearly German and MB but are at the leading edge of luxury car styling.

sv7887 · March 2005

"What interests me is that their new models today (especially the E) are clearly German and MB but are at the leading edge of luxury car styling."

Aren't you hyping that a bit too much? MB is hardly on the leading edge in this regard. I'd give that title to Jaguar. I'd put MB somewhere in the middle, and Audi right after Jaguar. Also, VW did a nice job with the Phaeton. It's a sleek handsome car. I still think they should have marketed it as an Audi.

As for Lexus' worldwide plans I don't anticipate them being as successful there. Europeans tend to favor their home brands more than Americans do. Some of it is nationalism. I sincerely doubt Lexus is going to make headway in a country like Germany, but has and will be successful in the UK. I see LS430's everywhere here in London. There are several Lexus dealers around the area. Plenty of GS's and RX's about too. As usual time will tell.

SV

merc1 · March 2005

I know you like to poke fun at everything a German luxury car CEO says, but seriously why would he think anything of Lexus when don't sell more than 30K cars a year in all of Europe. Until the new IS appeared they didn't even have a single diesel model to sell in Europe, a 40 percent plus diesel market.

You're implying that he said that he thinks nothing of Lexus, quite the opposite, he also said that he welcomes them as competition. You only gap a snapshot of the article for specific purpose.

Doesn't sound like 1989 to me. Nobody said anything about "welcoming" the Japanese back then. I'm sure Lexus will have some success in Lexus, but it seems to me BMW's guy was just stating the obvious and current Lexus situation, not what their future would be.

M

merc1 · March 2005

I agree totally that the Germans are the style leaders, well minus BMW, but the Dodge Magnum looks like an Audi concept? Which concept was that? The Avantissimo?

To be fair the TT's interior has influenced a whole generation of interior designs.

M

merc1 · March 2005

"Aren't you hyping that a bit too much? MB is hardly on the leading edge in this regard. I'd give that title to Jaguar. I'd put MB somewhere in the middle, and Audi right after Jaguar."

I agree, MB isn't exactly cutting edge more like traditional turned up a bit, Audi is indeed cutting edge to me. Jaguar though is trapped by their past, the new XJ proves that. Not even Lexus gets knocked for the lack of change in redesigns like the press has done with XJ. Jaguar more and more to me seems bound by traditional styling cues a little too much. They need a fresh approach, BMW didn't.

"Also, VW did a nice job with the Phaeton. It's a sleek handsome car. I still think they should have marketed it as an Audi."

Well they more or less do, its called the Audi A8...lol!

M

designman · March 2005

Paldiyou have good taste.

The Phaeton sure does sit well with the nice home in the background. This car has the restraint, sophistication and quiet grandeur that I expect from a pure luxury car. It presents magnificently, better than every vehicle in this class IMO, perhaps even better than the XK which is getting long in the tooth. I give you credit for going with it and hope that it succeeds. Despite VW's image and problems I consider them to be one of the best at styling. And from that photo I can see you know a thing or two about styling.

Ljflxit's a little early for excuses.

"I read thru the 3 series review in R&T and it's real clear where their predjudices lie. Last sentence of the article says it all - "for sure it is still the ultimate driving machine in its class". So you can bet the bank accopunt that the 3-series will win any road comparo with the IS or any other car in the class."

Which prejudices would they be? The IS was barely shown. Didn't the outgoing IS garner favorable performance reviews? There's no false indictment here. Face it, the 3 came through where it is expected. The reviews seem to be unanimous about its desirable driving qualities and you can get it without the BS that plagues the 5, that is iDrive and active steering.

Now that the forecasted IS 300hp engine (or whatever it is) will be a pricey deal, the car has its work cut out. Not sure how many buyers are going to want to fork over the rumored $45K for this vehiclethis price commands a bigger car for everyone but the sport enthusiast. The smaller engine is not going to cut it and there is also a rumor that the 350 will not have a 3-pedal optiona crime if it's true.

Styling notwithstanding the IS needs to be baggage-free and may have to compete on the 3's terms. Now that it may be the first Japanese car to be priced on the same level as a German competitor, it had better be more than a dumb blonde. The playing field is level now and I am quite sure the IS will get its day in court so don't blame the reviewers. You know who the culprit is if it doesn't turn out right.

oac · March 2005

"I know you like to poke fun at everything a German luxury car CEO says..."

Au contraire, Monsieur Merc1 ! To me, the auto business is like Football, you don't call out your opponent. If you do, it becomes bulletin board material and every member of the opposition comes out swinging for you.

Lexus is doing their business in the traditional Japanese way - quiet effectiveness. First is the obsessiveness for quality and excellent customer service. Success. And with that comes reliability, which translated to name brand recognition, at least here in the NA market. And Lexus became the #1 lux plate here in only 15 yrs in the market. Outstanding accomplishment !

Second phase begins, where Lexus goes its own way, starting with its own styling. For good or worse, no one can pin the new GS and new IS into any derivative style. Its the Lexus way. They will compete with BMW not by being the best handling and balanced car, but by being a good handling and performance car in the Lexus way - quiet, smooth, refined, well-built and luxurious in and out. That is: be like BMW yet remain a Lexus true-and-true.

Let's not forget that Toyota is #2 in worldwide sales with 7.5M cars and trucks sold in FY2004, and threatens GM's 9.1M worldwide sales. There is no DCX or BMW close to Toyota in WORLDWIDE brand recognition. Should we mention market cap, since Toyota is higher than its competition combined. If I were BMW or MB, would I be calling out a company that strong in every facet of the car business ???? Just arrogance, IMO.

Add to the fact that BMW's highest sales comes from non-luxury cars.... tons of diesel-/gas-powered stripped 3-series in Europe. Ditto MB, where they find most work as "sherpas". Here in the NA market where they are considered *luxury* marques, they are way back of sales to Lexus. Granted Lexus sells more SUVs, but doesn't MB and BMW sell more low-end (suspect) lux cars here in the US anyway ? The 3- and C-class being sales leaders for BMW and MB, respectively.

So when we talk GLOBAL, BMW should not be throwing stones at Lexus. Lexus was Toyota and we all know who is more global between BMW and Toyota, don't we ?

Now I get off the soap box and head for the golf course....

footie · March 2005

Toyota has been doing 'build to order' for all of their cars in Japan for a couple of decades. Folks there don't buy them off the lot, they order at the dealership or the salesguy comes to their home. Toyota started moving the processes to make that work in North America in 2004.

There's a good assessment of Toyota's overall experience thus far in moving to build-to-order in North America at:

http://www.forbes.com/global/2004/0705/022_print.html

The net-net is typically Toyota, they found a way to change the best manufacturing process in the world to be more efficient, they saved money by reducing factory cost while improving options and choices for their dealers and customers. The story about the paint robots using changeable cartridges is classic!

They are now doing 10% of their NA production as build-to-order, where a dealer goes on-line, finds a vehicle in the manufacturing plan/pipeline and submits changes to it. The dealer gets confirmation the next day and the vehicle arrives in 14 days.

There are some other details in the article that are interesting about how they manage production, delivery and distribution - like building orders that are grouped for a distant location sequentially to insure that shipment is coordinated.

I don't think they will have any trouble providing a very successful build-to-order business in Europe.

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