Audi A4 2004 and earlier

keninplacitas · July 2001

On mentioning that 'it's not nice to quote other writers without permission' I was referencing myself, not you. I was just trying to make it clear that my earlier notes were not attempts at quoting other authors without permission.

Please don't go away, your regular comments help keep this board alive and friendly.

Best Regards, Ken

nitpicker · July 2001

Hey, Rocco, don't leave! You're one of the most helpful people on this board! I will check Subaru board tomorrow...gotta run now.

rwong1998 · July 2001

Come on back, the more input the better on all posts and questions. Lighten up and don't take it so personally

....I have also found you to be one of the most helpful and informative people on this forum.

keninplacitas · July 2001

Hey Scirocco22, if you insist on going away, the least you can do is let us know who you are (full name). I presume you won't have a problem with that in that you didn't seem to have a problem with presenting my name to the world.

Best Regards and Good Luck,
Ken Cooper

mmcbride1 · July 2001

Settle down. You're the one who put your name in your profile.

spridledog · July 2001

'Rocco, your many posts have always been interesting and helpful - keep it up! I think I speak for most of this group when I say: We LOVE you, man!! If you leave, I'm gonna organize a national boycott of this A4 forum in protest!! There will be chaos and mayhem in the streets!! (O.K., maybe that's a bit much, but you get the point). You just stay right where you are, buddy..

spridledog · July 2001

Mike has a very good point there. That's precisely the reason why Edmunds let's you pick and choose what is and is not public knowledge in your profile.

lauk0dg · July 2001

Due to popular demand, you can't leave the forum until further notice. We need you to post those useful URL's and other stuff :>

Oh by the way, my email is iambb8@hotmail.com. Drop me a line there if you want to discuss something. Yeah and if I come to Seattle I'll hitch a ride in your A4 (and the Forrester too) :>

That said, let me use the 1999 Chicago Bulls technique. Let's say Scirocco is Phil Jackson, and I'm some player in that dream team. If Phil isn't signed to coach again, I ain't gonna stay either :>

Billy

claydj2 · July 2001

Ken,

No offense Ken, but yes, at 170 hp, and this is more than just a matter of opinion, the 1.8Q is underpowered at times. It is not a knock on this car, which I greatly enjoy, and chose as my own. Don't get me wrong, for the money, this is a suuu-burb car! More power; I guess that's why they make the S4. Keep in mind, the A4 is an entry level sports sedan given the right options.

And no, there is nothing wrong with my particular engine. Thanks for asking.

binyan · July 2001

I just got the '02s brochure and it a little on the light side. Actually IMHO it's to arty. There are only 3 pictures of the car in the whole thing. The other shots are of a head light here and a side rear view mirror there. I mean for crying out loud, just give me hires shots and I can figure out for myself the pieces I want to drool over.

Anyway one of the local dealers here in callas said that they are going to be a part of some type of roll out event/thingee and that several dealerships around the country were a part of it. Does anyone have any idea WTF he's talking about? I heard him say that if I want to see one up close that I should go down to crest or the crest around the 19th of this month. Now at this point I didn't want to let on that I didn't have a clue about the crest stuff, so I just nodded my head acted like I'd just been given a hot stock. Are there any Dallasites, who know what this crest thing is??

djrunner · July 2001

I have used the Zaino products and I love them. Goto http://www.zainobros.com and you'll find everything you need. The owner gives great tips and will talk with you if you have any questions. The clay bar is really great as well!

Anyone - When are the 2002's gonna be on the lots? My nearest dealer said that they wouldn't get any until Dec. I find that hard to believe.

jccai · July 2001

Hi! My girlfriend has a 1999.5 2.8Q (sport,auto,bose, etc.). After getting the 22500 mile service, it started developing a metallic knocking noise in the engine bay. It sounded like lifter noise but it was intermittent. It was more obvious when the engine was cold. We took it to the dealer and they claimed they couldn't hear anything unusual. But I know the noise didn't used to be there.

Now a week has passed and the noise is becoming more pronounced. And it gets louder at higher rpm. She has an appointment with the dealer in a couple of days. Before the dealer feeds her the same "unable to reproduce" BS again, I want to see if anyone on this board has had similar problems. Maybe we can be armed with a bit more information before talking to the dealer.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

uafly1 · July 2001

Billy-I talked to your Mike, they are coming in real low with my trade. I worked out a good deal price wise with the Audi Exchange, but they can't find anyone to buy my car at a fair price.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get rid of 99 Volvo C70, completely loaded? Carmax is not an option and my dealer is surprised on how low the numbers are! HELP!

scirocco22 · August 2001

OMG!!! I was trying really hard not to come back here for awhile but it got the better of me again and jeez!!! *looks embarrassed* --I didn't expect such responses and support! Thank you, Karen, Rich, Mike, Jonathan and Billy. Yes, I may take things too personally at times but the bottom line is that I do in actuality spend way too much time on message boards. Not only about cars but I have several other boards that deal with other topics in which I participate and they, in aggregate, are taking up WAY too much of my time so I guess I needed some excuse to wean myself away from at least one of them. Some of you know just how addicting this is and to those who don't, I think you can imagine what it's like. Everytime you get on the internet for something, you run over to Edmunds (or some other boards that you may participate) to see what the new topics are or to see if someone has responded to a message that you previously posted. As I've stated before, I definitely am an Edmundsaholic! I keep coming back here because I love talking and reading what others have to say about new cars and Edmunds has one of the best moderated forums about cars on the net. I guess I will keep reading this forum but you guys have my word that I'll try really hard not to post quite as often *chuckles* --thanks again, everyone!

Ken-- Although appearing cordial and accommodating, the tone of your recent posts were trenchantly masked in sarcasm so yes, I got your point. Again, I apologize. The intent of my participation in this forum is to keep everyone involved and not to make anyone feel ignored. I know how it feels to be ignored for I have been through that over on the Subaru boards. Here, I endeavor to address everyone who posts, although it is not always possible for I sometimes get busy and miss some of the inquiries from time to time. In trying to keep the banter informal and to make everyone feel welcome and part of the discussion, I try to address people by the name that they divulge in their profile. As to why I don't give my actual name in my profile, I did discuss previously on this forum. But I'll briefly summarize again by saying that originally when negotiating with dealerships for my A4, one of the dealer's sales rep's whom I was dealing with was reading and responding to posts on one of these threads here at Edmunds. I therefore wanted to keep myself as anonymous as possible so as not to jeopardize the negotiating process. You, on-the-other-hand, opted to include your full name in your profile so everyone in "the world" has access to it anyway. In keeping with the terms set forth in the Member Agreement here at Town Hall, I will not pursue this particular discussion with you any further as we are not here to debate personalities or the demeanor of our fellow members but to discuss and debate about CARS. Best regards to you too, Ken.

--'rocco
scirocco22@softhome.net

jerrydog · August 2001

In todays world their is no such thing as privacy. the sooner you realize this, the better off you will be. Times's change and this is one of the consiquences of the electronic times.

nitpicker · August 2001

Hey, Rocco, welcome back! I think it's safe to say that those of us who have been tuning in to this board for quite some time really value your input and your friendship; glad that you're still part of the family. And yeah, these forums are addictive, aren't they?

Anyway...I've just hit the 800-mile mark in my new 1.8T, and here are some more impressions based on the first two weeks of ownership:

In a nutshell, I am just blown away by this car. Now I understand why people are so obsessed with their A4s. Yes, there are some little details that I wish Audi had done differently, and there are some options I wish I had gotten, but I can't remember ever before looking for reasons to go driving, or going out in the garage just to look at my car, or just sitting in the car and marveling at how well put-together it is.

Some specific likes and dislikes:

The mileage calculator seems to have corrected itself somewhere between the 500- and 800-mile mark. At the last fill-up, the calculator said I was averaging 24.4; actual was 24.7 (mostly highway).

The car continues to impress me with its solid construction. The only exception to this is wind noise, which I didn't notice initially. The brake tension feels just right: responsive and fairly light, but not "grabby." Steering is tight and responsive. The stock stereo system is just OK; the stock Panasonic system in my '89 Integra was better. The stock headlights are also just OK. The sport seats are great -- very supportive and comfortable. Apparently these won't be a separate option (sans sport package) in the 2002s; if that's the case, I think Audi is making a mistake. I'm pretty happy with the Tiptronic. Although it doesn't have the quickness of a manual (at least not the way I'm driving it), it does allow for a zippier, more responsive ride than a typical auto tranny.

As far as the cockpit design goes....I thought the third visor sounded kind of silly, but I've found that it does help me. It does allow a little sun to peek through, but it does help. The dash layout is pretty logical, but my middle-aged eyes wish the odometer numbers and gear settings on the dash were a little bigger. Also, the lighting on the stereo console is a bit much -- kinda reminds me of a Christmas tree. If they're gonna use that many lights, I wish the lights would have been white, not red.

My only other gripe is the ubiquitous brake dust. I do like the design of the stock wheels, though. The 16" wheels do look better proportioned than the stock 15s, though.

If anybody is into horseback riding, here's an analogy: This is a dressage horse. The overall impression is one of beautiful balance. It just glides through curves and inspires confidence with its sure-footedness. I just love this car.

nitpicker · August 2001

Actual mileage was 27.4, not 24.7. Sorry --dyslexic typing!

lauk0dg · August 2001

Uafly (you work for UA or you fly UA a lot? LOL), that's true Schaumburg Audi did give me a low tradein value on my Accord, but heck, their bid was actually higher than all other Audi dealerships. The only higher bidder was Carmax, so I traded mine over there. So why not Carmax?? Low numbers they offered? I dunno, but you can try to put up an ad on the paper and see if someone will buy it. Of course you will run into all the hassle of scheduling and people test driving it and what not.

This morning I hopped into the car and found out that it just turned 6900 miles.....did I drive too much or is there something wrong with that number. Still flawless, and putting 1st to 2nd shift is a lot easier than when the car was new, although the clutch let off point is still tricky at times.

Billy

scirocco22 · August 2001

Anthony-- *looks frustrated* I know and REALIZE that there's no such thing as total privacy!!! I was just trying to imply that I wanted to keep as anonymous "AS POSSIBLE" as I didn't want to reveal my identity too easily to the salesperson. Sure, with a lot of electronic legwork, he could've found out who I was but I just didn't want to make it too easy to truly identify myself here on this board during the negotiating process for my own reasons.

Ok, I've vented ...now let me get back to reading about people's comments about their CARS! *winks*

--'rocco

keninplacitas · August 2001

Good to see you back Scirroco22.

Nitpicker ... Sure was glad to see that your milage came in all right. 27.4 MPG for overall driving sounds about right. As far as the clutch is concerned, when I purchased my 2000 A4Q the choice was between my present loaded Quatro 1.8T and a less expensive red one without a sports package (I tend to lose all financial sense when I buy a car). Now, the clutch on the car without the sports package was quite a bit smoother. Why is that? Do they put a harder composite clutch plate on the sports model? Does the clutch just respond differently as a result of the high speed tires or larger wheels? I have over 31,000 miles on this car and the clutch hasn't changed one iota in the way it functions, so it doesn't seem be an effect caused by the way it was initially driven. Any ideas anyone?

By the way, that center visor is a real Godsend for us tall folks when heading into the sun.

As far as the red lighted center console is concerned, I think you'll find that, almost universally, others who ride with you at night will comment on how cool it looks. Having once been a P2V patrol plane crew member, I can appreciate the red lighted console for the fact that it doesn't hurt your night vision (look in any plane's cockpit or Navy ship's weather decks at night).

Clay, You are right, you know. Years ago I bought a new 67 Pontiac Tempest station wagon (growing family). I don't remember the horsepower on that car with it's 327 cu.in. V8, but it sure would haul a--. True, if I compare the Audi 1.8T with that car, the Audi is definitely under powered. One other point, to me, the 2.8 V6 seemed like the under powered of the two. At this elevation though (~6,000 ft.) all naturally aspirated engines suffer from a sort of suffocation. I used to love driving my non- turbo '86 Saab to visit family in California. The car slowly progressed from wimp to hotrod as the air density increased with each incremental drop in elevation. The turbo, especially at higher elevations, does a nice job of providing denser air for combustion.

NOTE: This 'spell check' almost changed Saab to Scab. Is this a little something planted by the Edmonds Audi family, or what ... :-) .

scirocco22 · August 2001

Ken-- Thank you. *offers right hand* As far as the clutch goes, I too originally thought there might be a difference in the sport package clutch vs the one without because of the slightly different feeling in the clutches of the cars I test drove. After having had my car for several months, I asked to drive a friend's sport package equipped A4 to evaluate this and found the clutches felt identical. The friend also thought there should be no physical difference in clutches. I haven't seen that discussed over at AudiWorld but maybe I'll ask that over there when I get the chance. Also, do you know if those lights in the center control console dim with the instrument panel lights? ...I haven't dimmed the panel lights enough to notice.

Karen-- I gave you a quick response over on the main Forester board ...thank you! Yes, I'm envious! ...27.4 is better than I'm getting right now but I would have to say that my driving is probably 80% city. I'm glad to hear that the discrepancy between the actual mpg and the one stated on the trip computer has now somewhat disappeared. As Ken stated, the lighting of the controls for the HVAC and audio head really impresses first-time riders at night. I had a friend use the exact same words: "wow! It looks like a Christmas tree!!" And how about those two miniature red lights located in the overhead console that continually bathe/give ambient lighting to the center control console!!?? ...it lights up your hand in red before you even touch the controls!! ...impressive! Now the wind noise is one of my major complaints. I'm surprised that a car of this caliber would have so much wind noise. I first thought it was coming from maybe the poor air circulation around the left mirror but I pulled the mirror into the body for a few seconds (lol, I did this while driving on the freeway, then rolled the window back up) and it didn't make any difference. As someone put it: "...just turn up the volume on your favorite tune."

flo-- ...as Billy asked, why not Carmax? I've talked to several people in the Chicago area who've sold their used vehicles to them and were very impressed with the appraisals ( http://www.carmax.com/about/faqs/index.asp#trade). We don't have a Carmax in my area but sure wish we had! Good luck... keep us posted.

James-- Is the noise more of a "tappet" sound or a pinging? Oh, I just noticed you started your own thread. I'll have to read what's being posted over there, brb.

Donna-- Me too. I've used Zaino with excellent results on my previous cars. As for when the new 2002 will be in the showrooms, man, there's been so many conflicting reports recently. We pretty much know that it will be in October but I've also been hearing about the "trickle" introduction.

Wendell-- Yah, please tell us about this "crest" thing that you're referring to when you finally find out what it is!! lol

--'rocco

lauk0dg · August 2001

Wind noise? Is it really that bad? I guess I turned my tunes too loud to notice it.....I heard *some* wind noise, but not bad enough for me to complain.....or maybe my ears are bad.

Yeah the center console got a lot of attention from my friends. And I like the LED's that light up your hand when you try to figure out what your fingers are touching at nite. I agree if the lights were white, your eyes actually got tired after a while. Although I got to admit the white needle on red numbers on the dash on the S4 (opposite from our A4's) is very cool.

My buddy just gave me a ride on his Nogaro S4 2 nites ago.....and all I can say is, WOW. He didn't even get it up to 5000rpm where the torque curve drops.....only 4000rpm and that's enough.

Billy

keninplacitas · August 2001

With the sunroof closed and the sunroof shade open, I get wind noise on my A4. Closing the shade reduces the noise significantly. I stated this as a problem on my 10,000 mile service visit and was told that all Audis with sunroofs have that wind sound. Haven't had any other wind noise problems.

Yes rocco, the red lights on the center console dim when dimming the lights for the gauges. Again, glad to see you back.

bethyg · August 2001

I am a first time Audi owner and I have to say I am having many problems with this car. My water pump cracked, fuel pump has failed, headlight went out, clutch went, trunk wont lock, ratteling in my AC, reverb on passenger side of car that affects speaker, coolant gage broke etc all within the first 10,000 miles of my car. Is it normal to have so many problems? Has anyone else had similar problems - please help as I think I now own a lemon? PLEASE HELP!

scirocco22 · August 2001

Beth-- That can't be normal!! Are all or some of these recurring problems? Lemon laws vary from state to state but I think that most require that the problem(s) be reoccurring with the manufacturer not being able to find a solution. Many of us reading and posting on this board are first-time Audi buyers/owners and have only had our cars a short time so I certainly hope that your problems aren't the norm! None of the problems seem to be directly engine related so that's good. Has the dealer replaced all of the parts and has it fixed the problems? What model year is your car? ...and is it a 1.8t or a 2.8? You also have a BMW?

Can anybody help Beth? I'm pretty dismayed listening to her story.

--'rocco

keninplacitas · August 2001

Is this an Audi A4 and did you buy it new? It almost sounds like the car's been in an accident or something. So far with my 2000 A4 1.8 Quatro with over 31,000 miles on it, the only problems I've had is a sticky cigar lighter and a window that started squeaking when I rolled it down.

scirocco22 · August 2001

I closed the sunroof shade and it did seem like the wind noise was less noticeable. It seems the shade must give more sound insulation in general but I still do hear a slight bit of wind whistling around the left A-pillar area ...seems to be coming from between the A-pillar and the left mirror... not a window seal leak type of whistling but definitely on the outside of the car). I'm satisfied with the wind noise issue now that it is somewhat reduced by closing the shade so I'm happy! Thank you... that was a very good tip.

hmmm, didn't I say that I was going to try to reduce the amount of times I post?? ...ok, I'll shut-up now! (see how addicting this gets, Ken? :-P)

--'rocco

uafly1 · August 2001

For those wondering why I just would not do carmax, well here's my living nightmare. I did take it to Carmax and was given $4500, more for my trade,except they will not take it because it had been involved in a accident. Now I bought the car with 14,000 miles on it and it was certified by Volvo. NEVER told about body work. So yes,I would love to take to carmax, but that is not an option unfortunely. I just decided to take the big hit and go with the 1.8t on-quattro. I shopped around and the I am getting the car for about $25,000. The other dealers that I dealt with were coming in about 6% over invoice, which seemed high. I did put the car on bay a lot of inquires but no bids. All I can say is that I learned my lesson. Oh and Billy, I do work for A and also fly A a lot!

lauk0dg · August 2001

Beth, wow, I'm sorry to hear that you got so many problems with yours. I have 6921 miles on mine so far and apart from a single glitch on the power to the stereo system (I pulled the fuse, wiped the prongs clean and it came back to life), I don't have anything wrong with the car, ok at least I don't notice anything. I am crossing my fingers and hope I won't get all those problems in the next 3079 miles, but as Scirocco said, if they have to fix your car too many times and on the same problems, claim lemon on the car. I guess it's one of those things that happen on some but not all products. My mum's Nokia phone went bizzerk after 10 days of ownership, had to fix it 3 times in the last 2 weeks, while mine worked like a gem in the past year. SImilar analogy, sorry to hear that Beth, and hope dealer can fix them in a timely manner, or tell AoA to buy it back and get a new one.

Wind noise....I try to see if I got any wind noise, but really it only starts to be noticeable after i hit 85mph or so, and of course I am not going to drive that fast that frequently so I'm ok with that. I can understand by closing the shade should help as that will insulate the sound coming from the sunroof edge turbulences. Good that it relieves the problem.

Uafly, yeah Carmax doesn't like to take in cars with accidents. $4500 for a 98 Volvo C70??? Wait a minute, I thought getting $5000 for a 96 Honda Accord LX from Carmax is bad. So did you end up getting your A4 from Schaumburg Audi?? Yeah they usually come in the lowest, but some people had commented on better buying and servicing experience when buying from Continetnal or other dealers. I got pretty good experience from both, other than that they forgot to put in my Mobil 1 during the 5k service. Told me to go back and promised to finish the task in 20 minutes. Not bad. Good luck!

Billy

private1 · August 2001

private1 · August 2001

i have been wanting an A4 for a year and finally have the means to purchase. After shopping for A4 1.8t quattro w/ celebration and cold weather package, what should i expect to pay. I've seen 24,5 to 27,5. Any ideas on a lease rate for 36 months with minimal down. I apprecitae any input to help get me in a fabulous car.

mmcbride1 · August 2001

I got a 2001 A4 with MSRP of $29,600 (Quattro, Celebration, Bose, Xenons, MEtallic paint, Cold Weather, manual tranny). I leased it for 39 months at $425/mo. before tax. The only out of pocket fees was the first payment. No deposit, no inception fees. It is through Audi Financial. I would think you could do about the same, which is a good deal on an almost $30k car...

lauk0dg · August 2001

I got the same car as mmcbride's, only without the Xenons. MSRP was $29,040, got it for $26,700, invoice is $26,100. I've heard numerous people saying they got theirs (on www.audiworld.com) for $1k over invoice, so check on Edmunds for the invoice and add $1k and go from there.

jccai · August 2001

I just posted an update on 2.8L engine noise on the thread in Maintenance & Repair, if you are interested. I'll post more updates once we hear back from the dealer. Thanks.

varig · August 2001

I'm anxiously waiting for the 2002 A4s to show up at the local dealership so I can see it in person. Although I've read a few internet postings about the improvements made to the 2002 model, I'd like to test drive the car to see if I can notice an improvement over the current model. Interior images from the German website seem rather bland. I really like the current interior design. Maybe it will look better in person. Up to now, I've really only been considering the 1.8T, but I wonder if the 3.0 would be a better choice. Debut year of the 3.0 engine makes me a little concerned whereas the 1.8T is tried and true and one of Wards top 10. It also appears most of the folks that post have purchased the 1.8T. The price increase to get a 2.8 is pretty substantial for the HP you get. Anyone have a 2.8 that is happy they did not get a 1.8T??
I saw that the local dealer has a few 2001 S4 in inventory. Wonder if I could get a deal on an S4 and forget about a 2002?? Anyone have any opinions.
Thanks in advance.

lauk0dg · August 2001

My opinion is that, it doesn't worth it to get the current model 2.8. The price gap between a 1.8T and a 2.8 is far bigger than the one between a 2.8 and an S4. In other words, if you got the $$ for the 2.8 and love the amenties on the 2.8, save for a little more to get the S4. Faster, more things as standard, and resale value will stay after Audi discontinues it (supposedly) after model year 2002. The reality price difference between an S4 and a 2.8, so far I've heard from people here in Chicago, is about $4500. If you can shove out $35,000 for a loaded 2.8, why not the extra $4.5k? All I could say was "WOW" after my buddy gave me a ride in his S4.

Billy

scirocco22 · August 2001

D.J.-- Have you considered a 2.7t A6? I know that dealers in this area have been running all kinds of ads on 2.7t's and from glancing at the A6 forums, it sounds like you could really get a good deal right now on an A6 ...especially the 2.7t. Remember, that's the same engine that powers the S4 and is also on the Wards 10 best list. Is the 3.0 a brand new engine or has it been available in Europe previously?

James-- I read your update. Man, that sounds like the typical service department response, doesn't it? lol. Why would they ask your gf which side the noise is coming from? ...can't they tell themselves? Well, at least it sounds like they're going to fix it. Keep us posted.

--'rocco

spridledog · August 2001

I recently bought a 2001 S4, and have since erected a shrine for it in my garage, where I worship daily - I am completely and unabashedly in LOVE with this car!!! When I started out shopping, I decided that around $38,000 was the most I wanted to spend. I was going to wait for the 2002 A4 3.0 6-speed w/sport pkg, but then I noticed that local dealers seemed to have a number of S4's on the lots, and I started thinking that maybe they would deal on them since the all-new A4 is coming so soon. Also, the idea that the 2002 A4 is pretty much all-new kinda made me a little nervous. Even though I totally loved the S4, I initially ruled it out because it was too much money. However, I was right - I bought my Silver/Silver S4 (6-speed, Bose, Cold Weather Pkg, Premium Pkg) for $38,500 (the MSRP was $41,925)! Yes, the 2002 will be new and trendy, but you won't be able to deal on them for a while, the reliability is at least questionable, and personally, I like the classic looks of the current design better. Also, after not too long, new A4's will be everywhere, and my S4 will be a rare jewel! I say, if you can swing it, get the S4...and don't look back!

jcordray · August 2001

Have there been any reports of problems from Europe? I thought the car has been out there for a while now if there were any issues don't you think they would have surfaced by now.

claydj2 · August 2001

That is truly one hell of a car!!! I am a jealous owner of an 01 1.8T Q with 17'' sport, q celebration, and winter. You will have a gas! Congrats!

amr3 · August 2001

My next car will be either an Audi A4 or a BMW 325. Any thoughts/opinions which can sway me one way or the other are appreciated. I've test driven both and I like both of them. The wait for a BMW is 2-3months these days. Can anyone give me an idea of how long one has to wait for an A4 (1.8 or 2.4). I live in MA.
Thanks!

scirocco22 · August 2001

Hi and welcome! Well, you know what we're going to say on this board, lol. The responses you'll get over on the BMW board will obviously be pro-BMW and here we all chose to purchase A4s although many of us would prefer to have a BMW if it represented a better value. If you read back over some of the posts on this board, you'll find that an A4 will sell for thousands less than a simalarly equipped 325. The 1.8t is hard to beat when it comes to what you get for the money spent.

Since you are obviously thinking about ordering a car, if you were to order a new 2002 A4 today (I'm hearing this from those who are), you'd be looking at a late November delivery date. Now obviously you can look on the dealer's lots and maybe pick up a left-over 2001 for a terrific price. Many of us prefer the styling of the 2001 to the new '02. And incidentally, it's "1.8t or 3.0" ...those are your engine choices for the 2002.

Thanks for posting and let us know what you decide!

--'rocco

scirocco22 · August 2001

I just picked up my '02 Forester S+ yesterday and although it's a nice car overall, I'm spoiled by being an A4 owner. Like some people describe the fit, finsh and overall atmosphere of the WRX as having that of the typical Japanese econo-car, so is the Forester's ambience ...nice but "blah." The A4, on-the-other-hand, just exudes that certain uniqueness that seems typical of European cars. When shopping for the A4, I looked at models of Lexus, Infinity and Acura and although they displayed that typical Japanese detail to fit and finish, they too just had that same "blahness" compared with the BMWs and Audis. I think I would be really impressed with the Forester had it not been for already owning an A4. I really like the Forester but I'm almost "in love" with my Audi.

Years ago when owning a Honda, I remember telling friends and acquaintances that once you own a Honda with it's jewel like quality (I hear that quality has degraded a bit in recent years) that you'd be hard-pressed in going back to any other car. Now, after owning the A4, I'm thinking it might be difficult going back to a Japanese car and my purchase yesterday is kind of proving that fact. In my spare moments of thought, I find myself thinking about what German car I want to buy next... an A6, S4, 3-series, 5-series, etc?? (jeez, that's pathetic, lol). I guess the factor that would change my opinions is if the A4 suddenly starts to give me all kinds of problems. I cross my fingers not only for myself but for all of you A4 owners out there; that we may have many more miles of trouble-free and "put-a-smile-on-your-face" driving!!

Here are some impressions of the "pluses" that the Forester has over the A4:

* Huge sunroof that almost extends over the rear seats. It also seems to start further forward so it's more noticable while driving. When I open the sunroof on the A4, I sometimes don't even notice that it's open. In the Forester, it almost feels that the whole roof is off when it's fully extended. It also has a built-in (low profile but very effective) wind deflector that pops up and down with extreme slickness when opening and closing the roof ...I wish the A4 had that.

* Day time running lights. I believe this is a definite safety item. Yes, I can turn on the A4's headlights but I don't want to "wear out" my Xenons. I've been seriously thinking of doing the "foglight mod" that allows you to turn on the foglights independently of the headlights (of course, this is illegal but most jurisdictions will not pull you over and site you if you're only running with foglights).

* Muti-reflector halogen headlamps. Although I'm getting to like the Xenons more lately, IMO, the best lighting for everyday needs is the multi-reflector halogen. Now multi-reflector Xenons would be the ultimate! For me, I just don't like projectors.

* Auto-off headlights. All exterior lights turn off when the ignition switch is turned off.

* Less twitchy steering. The Forester seems to have more neutral steering with less understeer. The A4 is obviously more "sport" oriented in its handling (even though I don't have the sport package *sheds a tear*).

* Lower clutch pedal engagement. We've discussed this before so I won't elaborate.

* 6-disc in-dash CD changer standard. Overall, the sound system actually sounds just a bit better in the Forester than the Bose system in the A4.

* In-glass heating element in the windshield to keep the wipers from freezing. This will come back to haunt me when it comes time to replacing the windshield when it gets cracked. I hear that cracked windshields are quite a frequent occurrence on these cars.

* Side mirrors that DON'T dim! yay!

Pluses that the A4 has over the Forester:

* Too numerous to mention!

Okay, I hear an argument coming from the garage as to which car is begging to be taking out for a drive... I think the A4 is winning

--'nuff said for now.

--'rocco

keninplacitas · August 2001

Hi Rocco,

Comparing the A4 with the Forester is kind of like comparing oranges with apples isn't it. Which transmission do you have on your Forester? I had the manual (only time I ever wished I had purchased an automatic - long story). I agree with you on the daytime running lights. They're a good idea. I like Saab's approach where you can either leave the light switch on or leave it off. Either way, the lights are off when the ignition is off. I also agree with you on the sound system. I'm hoping that the 2002 A4's sound system will be significantly improved (a sub-woofer and center front speaker is being added in the 2002s - The sub-woofer, especially, should help a lot).

It's nice that you now own a high off the ground utility AWD vehicle that you can haul lots of stuff in . In my experience, the Forester is good in the mountain snow and on poorly maintained dirt roads. Also, it gets good gas milage for all it's utility. Good luck!

Just listened to a phone message from my Audi salesman. He says he has a 2002 silver A4Q five speed coming in (probably November). All his other allocated A4s have been snatched up. The temptation to take the hook is maddening.

Ken

keninplacitas · August 2001

Rocco,

I love the auto dimming side view mirrors. In the Forester, I found that I had to tilt the side view mirror down (rendering it useless) whenever someone came up behind me with their 'brights' on.

I'm curious about your statement, "Side mirrors that DON'T dim! yay!" Please tell me more.

nitpicker · August 2001

Hey, Rocco, congratulations! What a perfect stable: a Secretariat and a nifty workhorse! I'd be tempted to use the A4 for my "fun" driving and everyday driving and use the Forester for hauling big stuff and dirty stuff -- and I'd probably take the Forester out when roads are slushy/messy.

About the Forester "pluses": doesn't the Forester also use regular gas?

lauk0dg · August 2001

the exterior lights on the A4 also go off if you kill the ignition.

Yeah when I had the Accord I always thought I had a nice vehicle already. Not until I get into the A4 and completely forgot about Japanese cars. I guess I might really get spoiled and won't go back to them. Maybe the maintenance bill will sway me back, but heck, the car is solid after 7200 miles. Well the vent on the passenger side broke.....I took it out and tried to fix it but the linkage broke.....looks like I'm going to get it replaced in my 10k visit.

Oh one more thing the Forrester should be better than the A4.....brake dust. Hate 'em absolutely. But then that might be a signature for all cars made in Deutschland.....BMW rims seem to be covered by the brake dust as well. The Mercedes.....well their owners brought their cars to car washes too often I can't really tell.

Billy

scirocco22 · August 2001

Ken! *laughs* ...yes, it is an apples and oranges comparison. I guess I was just listing the features that I would've liked to see on the A4. And also, nitpicker (Karen) was at one time considering a Forester and I suppose that I was just trying to make her feel good about the decision to go with the A4 (as if she needs convincing at this point *laughs*).

The Forester is replacing an older model 4Runner that I was using primarily as a utility vehicle. The Forester is definitely not a 4Runner either. The 4Runner was a truck; the Forester is a car that is a wannabe truck. I don't see either the ruggedness or the cargo space in the Forester.

You had a Forester, Ken??? I didn't know that! Mine's a manual, of course... through my "years" of driving, I've never owned a car with an automatic. I'd like to listen to your "long" story about why you wish you had purchased an automatic when you have the chance.

Yes, the exterior lights are all off when the ignition is off. Not like those on a time-delay. I remember when those time-delay headlights first became popular (Cadillac, I think) where you'd go to tell a person that they left their lights on and they'd give you that smug and arrogant response that they'd turn themselves off. I'd be very wary of walking away from my car with the headlights still burning... what if the time-delay malfunctioned? --you'd come back to a car with a dead battery!

I can only guess that the sound system that you'll get in your new 2002 will be far superior than the current Bose ...how can it not be! *lol* (sorry, Billy :-p)

And wow! Dealers are already running out of their allocations of 2002's?? If you have an opportunity of getting on the "list," what's holding you back, Ken? Can you wait until spring when the novelty wears off or is it important that you get one ASAP? And 5-speed instead of a 6? ...or isn't it a 3.0?

Auto-dimming side mirrors: Please refer to the banter that Billy and I had starting with post #1352 through #1356: scirocco22 Jul 1, 2001 12:01am

Please keep us posted on the progress of getting your 2002!

--'rocco

scirocco22 · August 2001

Karen-- Yes! It uses regular gas and should get a bit better mpg than the A4!

And yes, I will probably doing exactly what you described!

--'rocco

scirocco22 · August 2001

Billy-- Right! I know for sure that there will be less brake dust on the Forester than the A4!

Now when we turn the ignition off on our A4s, isn't it just the headlights that go off and not all the other exterior lights (and intstrument panel lights)? ...that's the way VW products have been for years but I really have't noticed for sure on the A4 (I mean, that helps but it will still drain the battery if you forget to turn off the light switch on a foggy morning). I'll have to go check on that.

--'rocco

Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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