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Comments
I talked to the guy with the Passat who I thought had just installed some "whiter" bulbs (not the blue type) in his projectors but I was mistaken. He actually did a HID conversion ...cost him over $1,000. So nevermind.
Barry-- I don't drive enough to have to had top off yet. *lol*
Curt-- No Audi dealer in my area will use synthetic under the Audi Advantage Coverage. You're lucky!
I'm continually "hunting around" for the 0W-40 Mobil 1 so I'll let everyone know if I find it.
Karen-- I know you could clear it up for us! I feel much more at ease now. "...keeping hassles to a minimum..." --I like the sound of that! :-) Thanx.
--'rocco
Thanks for any help, opinions or advice.
I could probably come up with some more pro Audi arguments if I had more time to think about it because I'm always trying to find the good points to sell to my family and friends. I'll let you garner the cons from the 3-series board. *lol*
But try to drive them back-to-back for comparison. I've heard many testimonials describing the surprise as to how well the A4 compares with the 3-series ...and that was with the old B-5 platform. The new B-6, IMO, should surpass the driving experience of the awd 3-series.
Good luck and keep us informed.
--'rocco
Personally I don't like how the BMWs with AWD are raised .9". You get free maintenance for 4 years/50,000 miles with the Audi and only 3 years 36,000 miles with the BMW. The 3.0 in the A4 will definitely feel faster then the 2.5 in the BMW.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Further A4 pros: Better interior (little drawers, ambiance lighting, better feel and materials), New exterior.
Quattro was the biggest deciding factor to me.
Billy
I own an A6 4.2, which is often compared with the BMW 540 -- yet a friend of mine bought the "lesser" 5 series bimmer and the price difference bewteen his and mine was "hundreds" not thousands of dollars and my lease payments for a shorter term are slightly less than his.
Yet, he didn't consider the 4.2 because he thought it competed with the 540 ON PRICE.
A BMW 330 with AWD should, IMO, be compared with an Audi A4 3.0 with quattro -- and if stick is your pref, compare apples to apples, both in driving and on the sticker.
The Audi A4 3.0 compares to Bimmer 3 series with the 3.0 -- now look at the price.
If you are looking at a Bimmer 325 based car and compared to an Audi A4 3.0 based car, you find that the prices are similar, well, you have a clear "winner", the Audi. Now, therefore, however -- try comparing an A4 1.8T quattro with sport, xenons, manual and perhaps a luxury option or two with the Bimmer 325 based AWD vehicle -- again, I think there will be a clear winner, price weighted, that is -- and that will be -- ta daaa ---- the Ooodi.
Not maxed out BMW 325xi $36,145
The 325xi pricewise is closer to an A4 3.0.
Yup, the comparisons should be:
A4 1.8TQ vs 325xi
A4 3.0Q vs 330xi
S4 vs M3 (ok that's not right cuz the S4 is an AWD and the M3 is a RWD)
I was carshopping and was looking at both A4 1.8T and the 325ci (the xi wasn't available yet). It was easy to determine which one got the most value.....the Audi got Quattro and the options I want for couple of thousands less than the BMW with RWD. OK I gotta admit the BMW coupe looks very nice, but for the price difference I'm just buying the looks and the BMW name....and a plain BMW interior :> Doesn't worth that.
Billy
1) Go to http://shopping.yahoo.com and enter “mobil 1 0w-40” in the “Search box”
2) When you execute the search, your hit list should include a dealership called “Park Place” which I have seen show up as “Park Place Mercedes-Benz” and “Park Place Porsche”.
3) Those folks are currently selling the oil for $6.00 per quart (when you are the only game in town, you get to set the price).
When I ordered my oil, they took a couple of days to send me my “Order Confirmation” via E-Mail, and the shipment itself showed up a few days later.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Given the fact that I couldn’t go on a test drive last night, my only observations are thus far, tactile and visual. To that end, one of the coolest things I noticed about virtually every 2002 on the lot was that they had dual exhaust tips cut into the bumper like a late 1960s or early 1970s muscle car, IMHO, GOD Himself/Herself intended dual exhausts to look just like they do on then new A4. ;-)
The one thing that I did not get was the armrest. How do you shift with that thing sitting there right where the elbow (at least mine anyway, and you can trust me on this, I am no knuckle dragger) wants to be?
Armrest not withstanding, I really liked the car, however, I won’t be able to test drive a 3.0 until January at the earliest (the dealer is busy with the “year end push”). If any of y’all have had the opportunity to compare a 330i to an A4 3.0, I would be very interested to hear your impressions.
One more thing, I heard some rumblings last year that Audi was going to launch a program for European Delivery sometime this year, has anybody heard of such?
Best Regards,
Shipo
I was tempted to price a 330xi and attempt to configure it like an A4 3.0 quattro w/sport package could be configured -- to see how close the two were.
In my comparison above, I did choose Silver exterior (which is extra cost from both Audi and BMW) and a non-leather interior, Xenons, sound systems, sport, etc -- on both. On the Audi, I checked every box except automatic transmission to get the Audi price "up there."
It was still almost $4,000 less than the Bimmer.
BMW 330xi quattro also manual transmission and most options available $44,510 (I chose option packages to try to reduce the cost) I noticed, for example that the cold weather package in the Audi included front and rear heated seats, but the Bimmer only included the front seats heated.)
Both cars: Silver and Leather and as close as possible to "identical" as the web sites would permit.
FYI
Best Regards,
Shipo
My assumption is that the $2K+ number you cited was for the BMW, in that the Bimmer was more than $2K more expensive. AWD is incredible in the performance, safety and fun factors it provides, it would seem that the Audi still wins on "logic" alone.
But cars are only partially logical acquisitions, and for many people, logic takes a back seat to the "emotion" of the vehicle (heck, I even included fun in my three "logical" reasons that I would select AWD over 2WD).
So, on this board, I assume those who are already inclined to Audi's emotionally, have just been given a financial "justification" for their purchases. Objectively you get more for your money with Audi, when compared "logically" to a BMW of similar class and configuration. But, then again, who cares? We buy cars subjectively -- unless you're Consumer Reports, that is.
Here's the way I look at it, I would be very happy to have a BMW 330xi if someone would give it to me or if I got it for less than a comparably equipped A4 3.0 quattro.
But then again, I really like having heated rear seats, and they aren't offered on the BMW, but if the Bimmer cost oh, say at least 10% less than the Audi, I would probably tough it out -- I don't ride in the back seat much anyway.
But, for the BMW to cost 10% less than the Audi it would have to drop from $44K to $35K -- or about $9 grand -- not likely to happen in my lifetime.
Allen-- Yeah, I'd agree with the other opinions that were posted. Yes, actually, you should be comparing the A4 3.0 with the 330xi but I can see where you were just going mainly with price. I think if you really started comparing the totally configured price with similar options, you'd find that the 3.0 will start to approach the 330xi price although I haven't really played around with configurations myself. Billy's right when he points out that a nicely equipped 3.0 will be getting pretty close to the S4 price ...in the neighborhood of 40K. I also think Mark has a valid point about the value factor when comparing both the 1.8T with the 325xi and the 3.0 with the 330xi ...Audi will win without a question. And Bradd's comment about the extra year of free maintenance is a good one! He also pointed out the suspension being raised almost an inch ...that's quite a bit and will definitely lead to more "clunkier" handling IMO (if you can call any BMW clunky in handling). Reliability wise, Consumer Reports always rates the 3-series "above average" and the A4 "average" but I think you'd have to take that with a grain of salt. The ratings on the B-5 Passat are actually getting better and are now rated as "above average." And hopefully, as the B-6 platform evolves, reliability will improve too. And IMO, once the warranty is up, if anything on a BMW should "break," it's going to be more expensive to fix than with an Audi.
Kelly-- You guys got drawers under your seats? Wow!
2003 S4: I know some of you may have seen this because it's been out for awhile now but if you haven't, here's some pics of the new S4; well if you trust this article: http://www.4car.co.uk/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=240&storyid=1235
--'rocco
p.s. Allen-- I composed this before I read Dale and Mark's last posts... what they came up with is interesting.
--'rocco
Pant pant.
--'rocco
$33,990 - BMW 330i base price
$00,645 - Destination Charge
$00,475 - Black Sapphire Paint
$02,900 - Premium Package
$01,200 - Sport Package
$00,700 - Xenon Headlights
$39,910 - Total Price
$32,090 - Audi A4 3.0 base price
$00,575 - Destination Charge
$00,450 - Ebony Pearl Effect Paint
$01,320 - Ebony Leather
$00,550 - Premium Package
$00,750 - Sport Package
$00,650 - Bose Premium Sound System
$01,000 - Sun Roof
$00,500 - Xenon Headlights
$37,885 - Total Price
Total difference, $2,025.
Now, just to stir the pot a little bit ;-), the 330i can be had for $1,400 over ED invoice from at least one dealership here on the east coast, which means that the same 330i as shown above can be had for $34,980, plus the cost of a plane ticket.
Best Regards,
Shipo
--'rocco
By the way, I am a former Scirocco driver as well; 1979 5-Speed, one of my all time favorite cars. I would *Love* to get my hands on another one and drop a 1.8t into it. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Look at the other Audis, while I grant that this engine is a big step up over a 3.0, I can only imagine a fully loaded A4 3.0 at $39K will translate to $43 - 45K as an S4 fully loaded.
Light Silver $0,450
Leather $1,320
Sport Pkg $0,750
Premium pkg $0,550
Heated f/r seats $0,525
Bose® sound $0,650
Sunroof $1,000
Xenon hd $0,500
Audi Navigation $1,350
Power rear and manual side window
sunshades $0,375
Rear Parktr™ $0,350
Rear airbags* $0,350
Ski sack $0,175
AM/FM + CD included
Total price $39,690
=====
BWM 330xi $36,385 + $645 destination (AWD and 5spd manual) 214 ft lb torque @ 3500 rpm
Sport Package $0,900
Cold Weather Pk $1,000
Premium Package $2,900
Bi-xenon headlights $0,700
On-board Navigation $1,800
Park distance control $0,350
Silver $0,475
AM/FM +CD included
Total $44,510
This is as close to comparable as you can get based on their web configurators.
I don't know about you, but I still would have to drive them back to back to find out where the extra almost $5 grand is in the BMW.
Shipo-- Ah ok, yeah, I didn't know what you meant by "ED" but shouldn't the price even be lower than that? From what I quickly looked up, the invoice price of the MSRP'd $33,990 330i would be $30,750 so add $1,400 to that figure and it comes to $32,150 + $645 destination = $32,795 (metallic paint charge not included). That's really not too bad!
Hey! ...me too! A 1979 Scirocco 5-speed is what I had too! I miss that car sooooooo much! I really wish I had kept that car. I should have kept it in cherry shape and just hung on to it forever as a classic ...well, classic to me but maybe not to anybody else! *lol*
--'rocco
p.s. ooops, I posted this before reading the previous post from Mark. Okay Mark, but why would I be paying $44,510 for a 330xi if I can get, according to your speculation, a new '03, 340 hp S4 fully loaded for 43-45K? No question in my mind which car I'd choose! *lol*
Hey, I don't know if you still feel the same Billy but if anyone needs a little more room for whatever reason then the A6 with the S4 engine is something to consider..You can still shift for yourself, you are in that "magic" 40k price area and the extra space is nice. You don't lose much time in the 0-60 sprint. Not that that is important. For 2001 it was a tenth of a second. My wife really likes the TT full blown 225hp hardtop etc. but like most of you have found out once you test drive an S4/TT etc. then you "HAVE" to have one. She won't test drive it let alone get in one! Smart woman I guess. This from someone that has had Dom Perignon and understands those primal urges that have to be relieved once discovered. I still like the A6 with the 4.2 but no manual is a bimmer, I mean bummer! So, since I have no 50k laying around in the backyard in a mason jar the new S4 is not an option. Such is life. Later.
Brian
Best Regards,
Shipo
Brian-- If I were in the market right now, I would go with the A6 2.7T. I'm sure you could make a better deal on one of those than a new A4. Plus, it still has "my" voltmeter and oil temp. gauges! :-P Btw, *laughs* you've got a gift playing with words! *thumbs up*
--'rocco
It's RWD or AWD for me, and I'd equip my BMW with RWD because that's what makes the BMW special. If I have snowy climates, then I'd drop the BMW from the list altogether rather than consider the xi. So basically, if you want a sporty AWD car, you have to go with Audi because the xi isn't it.
So for me also, the BMW is only $2K more than the Audi since I would opt for the RWD model.
(check my math, I've had a few)
A4 3.0L Q auto tran.
33140 base
450 metalic paint
550 premium pack
1000 sunroof
500 xenons
575 destination
36215 TOTAL
325xi
28850 base
2700 premium pack
1275 auto trans.
475 metalic paint
700 xenons
1000 cold weather pack,( for fold down rear seats & headlight washers. heated seats are a plus but not necessary.)
35645 TOTAL
I chose the 3.0 over the 1.8 because of the interior features available on the 3.0 that are not available in the 1.8, ie power seats & wood trim. The additional 50hp over the 1.8 is great but not that critical for my priorities.
The 220hp A4 vs the 184hp 325xi is significant but again not that critical for my driving, both cars are quick enough for me to enjoy.
I believe I can buy either car for ~35200. It has taken several weeks to get the BMW dealer in Anchorage to budge off of MSRP. The Audi dealer has been more open to negotiating and my feeling is they would match the BMW price to earn my business. I envy you owners who have several dealers to shop in your area. These 2 dealers are my only options within thousands of miles.
Below is my old fashioned side by side comparison ranking features on a scale from 1 to 5. (my charts not formatting correctly but you should be able to figure it out)
Feature BMW Audi
HP 2 4
AWD 2 5
Ext. Style 4 2
Int. Style 3 1 cockpit kinda wraps around you
Int. Features1 3
Leatherette 2 1
Seats 3 4 (more adjustable)
Eng. Sound 2 1 (hey it's got the BMW growl)
Warranty 1 2
Heated Seats 1 0
Resale 3 1
Reliability ? ?
TOTAL 24 24
Well, maybe I should flip a coin.
Common sense tells me to go with the A4 but I am very concerned with Audi's past reliabilty history. The sophisticated Quattro is a better choice for Alaska driving conditions but it's probably much more expensive to repair. There is something about the feel of the 325 (I can't explain it) that the A4 doesn't have, but so far it's not enough to sway a final decision.
And the wife, she's no help, has left the final decision to me. "I don't honey, I'd be happy with either one". When's the last time your wife hasn't had an opinion?
Happy Holidays
If getting the BMW will make you feel better cause it's a BMW with a BMW engine growl. Get the BMW. I don't agree with comparing the A4 3.0 to the BMW 325xi.....and I think Alumninum trim in a black interior beats any color interior with wood trim.
Both cars are exceptional. Both 3-series and A4 are fun to drive, hella expensive, and head turners. BMW has a snobby persona in some areas, others there's BMW's at every corner. My home town would look at you as a snob if you drove around in a BMW. Where I work nobody would think twice.
If you're hung up on price, and you don't think the price difference in however you're comparing them is that big of a deal, decide by which ones makes you smile the most. If the BMW name is what's gonna make you proud and smile when you drive it...get it. If the A4 does it for you, get the A4. If both make you smile, GET BOTH!
(sorry if I sound bitter. I've worked about 35 hours in the last 3 days. I'm not a happy camper)
Thanx again!
Oh, I also just noticed that I missed your post that followed the Mobil 1 message ...had to do with your impression of the A4. Yes, the dual exhaust extensions are extremely attractive but the argument over at AudiWorld was that they are not true dual exhausts in the definitive sense. Evidently, they do not individually extend from the exhaust manifold up front but originate as one pipe and split off at some point. But still, I agree, they look damn nice!! And the armrest does fold backward 90 degrees to clear the area between the seats if, like you noticed, it gets in the way of shifting or your elbow. It also is height adjustable ...assuming that they're the same as in the '01.
--'rocco
I have an A4 in my crossharis but I don't know which one and if the extra $$$ is justified in getting the 3.0. Here's my driving environment: traffic, stupid drivers, no great hills or curves...yes, Charlotte, NC. I love driving a stick but traffic is really starting to irk me...I currently drive a 96 Saab 900Se turbo w/stick. I would like to get a 6 cyl. but don't know if it is worth the extra $$$...is the tip really taxing on the 1.8T? Any advice would help. By the way, if I had the extra dough it would be the S4 right away...tip or manual.
Thanks for the "Heads Up" on the height adjustment of the armrest, I did notice that it would pivot up and back about 100 degrees from horizontal, but I failed to notice the height adjustment. Call me lazy (I am on the down slope to 50 nowadays after all ;-)), however, I do like having an armrest (as opposed to holding a perpetual 9 o’clock – 3 o’clock on the steering wheel when just cruising along), I just want it to clear my elbow when shifting into 2nd, 4th and 6th gears.
Best Regards,
Shipo
--'rocco
I live in northern New Jersey where we have basically wimpy winters, in the last 9 years there have only been a dozen days or so where the Quattro would have been a necessity, and for 4 or 5 or those days, the roads were closed to all but emergency vehicles. For the remainder of the time, I was more than contented to sit in front of the fire with my family, or if necessary, drive our AWD minivan.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Ooops, yeh, I was thinking 100 degrees but mistakenly typed 90 degrees for some reason. And the height adjustment is only a 3 position choice so it isn't like it has a myriad of adjustment positions or anything. But I notice my forearm seems to just rest naturally on the armrest even when I'm shifting. Although I haven't yet retrofitted with a short shifter, I seem to be able to easily shift with mainly wrist action. But I've only got a 5-speed ...maybe with a 6-speed I'd want to get my whole body involved with the new intensity of the driving experience --then damn the armrest; get it out of the way! :P
--'rocco
Cosworth V8 confirmed in the new S4?--
I asked for responses over on the S4 board about the validity of that article that I posted yesterday about the new S4 and someone that actually is from Ingolstadt replied that the new S4 will definitely have those specs. steher "Audi S4" Dec 14, 2001 3:57am
So here's that article again: http://www.4car.co.uk/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=240&storyid=1235
--'rocco
Edwin
Yup I agree with the concensus.....RWD, go with BMW. AWD, go with Audi. There is no point to get an AWD BMW and a FWD Audi. And Shipo, before I got the Audi I thought I'd use the AWD only during snowy weather.....oh by the way we folks at Chicago finally got the first snow.....but no accumulations on the ground so can't have FUN yet. Anyhow, after I went to the Quattro Challenge hosted by Audi, they showed us how good Quattro is even on dry pavement and wet pavement (water). We can downshift, make a turn, and because it got all the wheels sharing the engine torque, it's just incredibly smooth coming out of curves. When you go and test drive the Audi with Quattro, ask the salesman for a very curvy road if he/she didn't do that. Power through the curves and Quattro's amazing. Of course you don't want to get into understeering situations but even so, it's easy to get out of it.
03 S4's w/340hp and a V8? Isn't that going to be too heavy up front? I thought they're going to get the current RS4 biturbo V6 engine and stick it into the S4. Good enough horsepower I thought, with 375hp and 325lbft of torque. Either way, gotta save up now. I am, however, a little bit disappointed that (according to Rocco's pics) the new S4 might just look exactly the same as the 02 A4 plus a lip spoiler like the new M3. I'd expect it to differ a little bit.....like the 3 series coupe and the M3. Hope Audi does a little bit more mod to the S4.
Billy
Billy
Technically speaking, they are both 0 weight oils (hence the 0W), as such, the 0W-30 and the 0W-40 have the same flow characteristics when cold. The difference is when the engine is hot, the 0W-30 thins out more than the 0W-40, the result is that (when hot), the 0W-40 will protect the engine better that its thinner sibling.
It is my understanding that Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Audi & BMW all use 0W-40 Synthetic (not necessarily from Mobil though) as the "Factory Fill".
Best Regards,
Shipo
Thanks for the props concerning my play on words! Thought everyone would like the tongue in cheek reference. I am not very good using the emoticons so have to show my sense of humor in other ways. I think IMO that since Sept. 11th we sometimes complain about insignificant things at least to outsiders and thought that keeping it light is the way to go. With the economy and the "war" etc. etc. I'm sure all of us can use a laugh now and then.
Many posts earlier I stated if I had the money to burn an M5 would be the way to go! But if Audi would put a six speed in the A6 4.2 and then hop it up a little, it would get me in to a dealer in a heartbeat.. and BMW would be shaking in their boots. Doesn't look like it will ever happen so why keep beating a dead horse right? Gotta see if I can find a snow covered parking lot after work tonight. Later.
Brian
The A4 1.8T FWD with CVT is supposed to be available in the U.S. next month. If you haven't read anything on Audi's new Continuously Variable Transmission, do so. Before you make your decision, try one. From what I've read it's well worth waiting for if you're willing to live without Quatro (Audi says it will be available with Quatro within 2 years). It's like having a lossless automatic transmission that optimizes to the torque curve and doesn't clunk through the gears. Audi has even provided, if you choose to use it, Tiptronic like manual shifting with this new transmission. Personally, right now I like the manual for driving the hilly, twisty roads around here but if I had city commuting to worry about, I'd definitely look at the CVT.
The rationale, I was told, is that the US buyer cannot tell enough of a difference (except behind the wheel) between an A4 and an S4 and that the upcoming model will not depart too much from this "stealth" appearance.
Therefore, he argues, about $5K will be tolerated.
Thoughts?
Best Regards,
Shipo