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I actually had to have my Saab serviced at Zumbach once (because I couldn't drive it to the dealer in NJ) and they did a teriffic job. If you go there, ask for Freddy (or Fred) the service writer. His son is one of the Audi Techniciancs there. One thing though, everything is more expensive in Manhattan. They charge something like $120/hour for labor...OUCH!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Thanks!
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I have been researching the Jetta, Passat and A4 with looking to purchase in the near future. I really like the Jetta GLI (the 17" wheels look great) with the leather, sunroof and monsoon. However for the money I could get a Passat GLS similarly equiped (but with 1.8T) but with puny looking 15" wheels. As far as getting an Audi I would probably have to buy used at this time to get the same equipment level.
I am single and would probably own for 1.5 - 2.5 years. I have gone through a career change and probably will have more money to spend in a couple of years. Recently I have owned trucks and SUV's but the best vehicle I ever owned was a '94 Acura Integra GSR. I'm a little older now and looking for more sport sedan than pocket rocket, but as one can tell I like 'drivers cars'. I drove a 5sp Passet in Ireland last summer and really liked it, have as of yet to try Jetta or A4.
looking for other opinions as to which way I should probably go.
First, once you drive the A4, you will probably want it more than the Passat (based on your description of the GLS 1.8T).
However, your other qualifications make you seem perhaps AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME to need to make a "prudent" decision and go with a farily maxed out Jetta. I am speaking only about money here. And, knowing that you may only keep the car a couple of years -- get the Jetta now, then go for either an A4 or a Passat W8.
The A4 is a sweet machine, tho, and of the three you suggested, would -- all things permitting such an indulgence -- be my first choice.
No satan no -- go with the Jetta. Save for the next time -- don't burden yourself at this time with a "self inflicted wound." Enjoy fine dining, wine, women, whatever -- with the difference in the monthly payment between Jetta and the A4.
Just hit 5K on 2002 A4 1.8T - all I can say is solid, solid, solid. What a car.
2 things: In response to previous post which talked about New Country In Greenwich, when I was shopping for my car I hit about 6-7 dealers in the tri-state area 1 being NC. I figured with all the NY Times advertising being the "world largest Audi dealer" I would get the best bang for my buck. Boy was that far from the truth.
They were the highest priced of all dealers I got quotas from and it was on a demo! the place was like a factory and the salesman were the worst I have ever dealt with - like I should be privileged to buy from them. I will take every opportunity short of advertising in the Times that they are the worst dealership in the world.
I ended up getting a phenomenal deal and service from a very small volume, bare bones local outfit. Screw NC
Now that I got that rant out - my question. What have people heard about any changes / upgrades for the 2003 A4? Will we still have the 1.8T rated for 180hp? or are we going to top VW? ANY news or gossip is greatly appreciated.
Now, I do not know if this S4 which should be here in the year 2003 will be badged as a 2003 or 2004 -- my best guess, 2004.
If the economy is back by then, well I do have a three car garage. . . . .
The list of stuff that I read is coming on future Audi's is pretty impressive and even though some of the things that are coming have been on other cars, putting them all together on an Audi should be incredible.
Suspension improvements (semi active); changes in the electronics, telematics, etc. Each Audi will eventually have what would be the equivalent of its own unique URL, automatic this that and the other thing are already in the pipeline. Of course some of the things will come first to the A8 or the RS6 etc, but they are already planned to push downstream to the A6, A4, A3, etc.
We live in some pretty exciting times -- can't wait.
To help me make up my mind, my salesman had a 2003 order sheet for me to examine. Here are some changes I observed from that order sheet. (Hope I'm not repeating old news!)
Leather seating surfaces will be standard on the '03 A4 3.0. This can be upgraded to premium leather. Not sure if that means the door panels and trim are affected? From what I can tell, cloth will NOT be available in the 3.0.
One new interesting package will be the PPX Premium Package, which includes the sunroof, xenon, auto dimming mirrors, driver seat memory, homelink, and a multi-function steering wheel. I wonder if the multi-function upgrade removes the up/down shift buttons from the steering wheel (for automatics)? Interesting: I did not see sunroof or xenon listed as individual options. (?)
Another new option is 17" 5-spoke wheels with 234/45 all-season tires. Apparently, this provides an opportunity to get the sporty wheels, but with additional traction, and without the extra firm suspension of the sports package.
The exterior and interior color choices seem to be the same as the '02 choices. There may be an additional combination or two, such as the beige interior with the dolphin gray metallic exterior.
Hey MarkCin, talking about exciting new Audi's, how about I read something on C&D saying Audi is going to get a version of the baby Lamboghini cuz Audi had helped Lambo (well ok Audi owns Lambo) on the aluminum body and other stuff? If THAT'S coming to US, I guess I'll eat peanut butter till then to save on $$ :>
Billy
"Edmunds' recent entry in the long-term test of the '02 A4 3.0 CVT didn't speak very favorably of the real-world urban driving traits of that transmission. I'm wondering if the test drivers may be a bit too ritical? "
Where exactly did you get this from?
- D.
So, while I cannot always put my finger on where I read or saw mention of "new" and future Audi's, I generally lend credence to what I have read/seen, if I find it in more than one location.
Audi and VW are both moving "up market" (read higher priced). Audi's direction is apparently more aggressive in the sport-luxury market and VW's in the classic-luxury market. To this end, Audi (according to the above referenced sources) is going to bring a $75,000+ sports car to market. Indeed the relationship with Lambo -- see Billy's post above -- is fostering this.
And the beat goes on -- the upcoming TT's apparently will have V8 engines in them -- I assume that inexpesive (in relative terms) TT's are not in the long term future. A true Audi SUV, not one based on my current fave the allroad (I ordered one since I assume it is just about the end of the line for the car), will be brought to market. Of course the current body allroad will be available later this year (my dealer says hopefully this year) with a 4.2L V8, but no manual transmission.
The new 6spd tiptronic, only coming in the A8, for now, will within a model year or two be widely available across the Audi line -- which will probably mean we are nearing the end of the line for a manual option (in the US at least) -- but, the 6sp tip apparently does just about every thing right and theoretically virtually eliminates what some of us feel is the "manual advantage."
W12 engines, normally aspirated at first, followed by turbo(?) charging, diesel offerings, electric (not hydralic) brakes and more handling electronics -- are, so say the magazines, all in the works for upcoming Audi's.
And all at an upmarket price.
Before you count your current or next Audi as your last one, though -- because of the march up market and up price -- remember that Audi's will probably still remain higher value than BMW's and Mercedes (read lower priced). So if you are into the European cars like I suspect many of us that participate in this forum are -- the future looks like it will be both higher performance and higher cost.
The price of progress.
I will attempt to post the URL below:
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/longterm/articles/59310/page002.html
;-)
Pat
Sedans Host
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I do agree that all-season tires should be offered as a zero-cost alternative to the high-performance summer tires that you get on the sport package.
Later, my 2001 A6 4.2 -- which I also special ordred -- offered the sport package which included the 255 x 40 x 17" wheel/tires, lower suspension and sport seats. The car came with Pirelli P6000's (which are the worst tires I have ever had and will never willingly have again.)
I do not agree that the car will have a 4x4 look -- but I do think for those who really take the time to notice that the sport suspension cars @ 20mm (south of an inch) lower -- ride and handle better and look better too.
The differences in appearence that 20mm makes is minimal. The real difference is in the improvement in the ride and handling.
Please don't yell -- I know some people think that the sport package makes the car ride rougher than the stock suspension. Well, it all depends on how you look at it. But, I have found, with my wife's 2001 225HP TT with 17" low profile Z rated tires (stock) that same size all weather High Performance tires (not Max performance) makes the TT ride better, be quieter inside, still go fast in a straight line, not need dedicated winter tires (we are in Cincinnati -- the HOME of moderate winters, snow wise) and for most of the kind of driving done on the highways and byways of the midwest only have a tiny reduction in handling prowess.
We drive rarely over 80 or 85mph -- and when reaching such speeds it is generally on a limited access very light traffic clear, dry day. We do "hunker down" and take some corners at higher than posted speeds -- but heck not so much as to squeal the tires or even activate the ESP.
So, for those that want an excellent compromise of performance, ride and looks -- my choice (and if one such as the following is avail from AoA and YOU are so inclined -- order it) would be:
an A4 with sport suspension and the cool looking wheels, sport seats and High Performance or Ultra High Performance all season tires with the same stats as the Max (or summer) performance tires Audi generally mounts on cars with Sport Suspension.
For those selecting this, they will be rewarded with more controlled handling (than with the standard suspension), higher cornering capability, firmer, but not ROUGH suspension movements, a quieter interior (primarily because some of the Max perf tires ARE noisier than the all seasons), greater miles between tire changes and in many parts of the US no snow tires needed. It does not appear that such a combination is avail from the option list -- but you could always have the tires swapped the moment the car came in on the truck for probably a "modest" sum -- a couple hundred bucks, I'll bet.
Like my wife, you'll probably love the improvements in many areas and not miss the loss of "stickyness" closer to the limit.
And, she hates to change tires in winter and summer -- so this works here in the eastern part of the mid-west. Probably would work well south of here too -- probably wouldn't want this set up in Minn. though.
I'll stick with the higher performance tires, but frankly I don't mind the additional "stiffness" on me bum!
Just a thought or two.
Any word on what the new A6 will be like? Same rounded body style... Any new powertrains... Will the 2.7T still be available? It would be nice to have a Turbo/s in that car to allow upgrade possibilities and that is the only A6 offered with a manual in the US of A. I would also like to see the fender flares from the 4.2 added to the 2.7T. That would be a nice touch. Thanks in advance for any info you have.
Brian
I wouldn't mind getting Mark's discards when he moves on to the next 4-ring hot-rod.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I noticed this the first time I drove the 2.7T. I then discovered that all the Audi's have the "wide" center console that could possibly restrict the driver's right leg room.
If you look carefully at pics of the new A8 coming out- Audi has redesigned that "wide" console, the interior is noticeably restyled.
MarkCicinnati- I don't remember you specifically writing about legroom (or lack of) on the 4.2. Are you satisfied w/ the "driving position" on your Audi and how does your wife rate the interior space on the TT?
Thanks again for your informative answers- I have learned so much about Audi from reading /participating in this forum!
I can understand the concern, but it has never been one to me.
I hear the 2003's BTW will be little changed from the '02's in anticipation of ALL new 04's.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
My employer is probably going to be laying people off when we get in to work today, and I was planning on hitting up the Audi dealership next week if I survive...
I rode in the back seat and found it to be less cramped than the 2001 A4's.
I liked the new A4 -- currently I find it to be about the best Audi out there (well, apart from the S6 Avant -- which is off the scale nice).
I read some time ago (in European Car or Car magazine) that there were new Audi's coming in 2003 (new as in refreshened, moving forward designs). That has apparently been postponed -- or probably more likely, was never in the cards anyway. Now, both Car and European car talk about new Audi's for 2004 and 2005. Now, I cannot imagine much will be done with the A4 line, since it is the freshest. But the A8, I believe IS the oldest (1994) and the A6 (1997) and the upmarket moves that are being pushed by VW and Audi AG, would lead me to believe new A8 for 2003 (but I am not certain it will be calendar 2003 and model 2004) and new A6 and TT in 2004 (magazines claim model year 2004 A6 and TT will have new bodies). The A8 Avant will be here too -- again, I imagine as a model year 2004.
Now, let me make one thing perfectly clear -- the magazines often seem to only distinguish markets "when they actually know something concrete." The A2 and A3 which are oft mentioned are apparently NOT US bound for the forseeable future. New A8's, A6's and TT's ARE. Apparently there will be much more widespread availability of Audi's with V8's -- I can find no further mention of 2.9T's in any magazine, for example.
The new S4 will be a 4.2 V8 equipped car and will have both auto and manual transmissions -- this information came from the "quattro quarterly" a publication of the Audi Car Club of America which generally has reliable information and generally has information after everyone else's speculation articles. The Audi Car Club often sites Mark Trahan (of Audi of America) or Len Hunt (VP of AoA) as its source.
One last note -- while attending the Audi Driving Experience in Seefeld, Austria in January of 2001, we got to use A4 2.5TD quattros with 6spd manuals and sport suspensions -- this, IMHO, would blow away the A4 3.0 owners with it's low end torque, economy, weight distribution, lack of anything that would give away that it was a diesel and probably reliability.
At the time, and continuing through today, I would say that AoA has brought the second best A4 to the US (the 3.0), when they could also bring the 2.5TD (which at 180HP and lots of low end grunt would be an instant favorite -- simply becuase the dieselly-ness has been wiped out of the thing).
I test drove a Mini as well today, and I have to say that I'm impressed with the amount of interior room they have... for front-seat passengers.
?
--'rocco
For my tastes, knowing that I would like leather, sat nav, 6spd, etc., I would probably consider the A4 3.0 over the 1.8T -- but the 1.8T is GREAT in every way (with the stick shift).
My comments were more a lament that the fantastic 2.5 turbo diesel is not available on our shores. I think it would be the best of the lot (until the S4 comes along).
Now, if I am wanting to tune my Audi, I would always pick turbo gasoline engined models.
The A4 1.8T and the 2.7T A6's (today) are the best candidates for performance tuning.
Putting the 225HP 1.8T in an A4 would be very nice, too.
Alas, not here (and as far as I know, the 225HP 1.8T is not available in the A4 body even in Germany.)
Someone living in CT reported on AW that he had seen the 03/04 S4 and A4 Cab running around over there.....anyone here had seen that in their neighborhoods?
I haven't seen them here in Chi town.....
Billy
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
vince...8o)
Saw an S8 (black with tinted windows) yesterday with busted plastic backup light cover.....my heart almost stopped pounding for a second. Too bad the guy turned at the next intersection.....almost wanted to roll down the windows and yell, "I felt your pain, man".
Oh by the way my 01.5 A4 1.8T hit 21,900 miles with no problems. May take it to Toronto from Chicago in August on its first long road trip :> Can't wait for that.
Billy
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
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sorry, I tried to resist saying that, but I just couldn't.
Billy
Thanks a lot!
I would look for the price to stay close to what it is now.
Chuck
The current year Audi's are made for about 26 weeks (so in 2002, we have already been making 2003's for a couple of weeks -- assuming the die replacements and other retooling were started exactly @ the end of either week 25 or 26). Sometimes, the TT & S4 are examples, a car will be called either a current year (extension) after the new cars are already out (the 2002 A4 was a new car, the 2002 S4 looked pretty much like a 2001, but was still called a 2002) or an eary next year car -- my wife took delivery of her 2001 TT in early July 2000 (which meant, according to the build sticker, that it was actually manufactured about 90 days prior to delivery.)
Generally next year's Audis are made commencing in July of the current year -- generally. Of course there are no 2002's being built anymore -- the '03's have already come on line. The fact that the first ones we'll see aren't here yet is a combination of several factors: AoA wants to get rid of the 2002 inventory and we are just at the very beginning of the 03 manufacturing cycle, and depending on how many "dealer or customer pre-orders" there are on the books, we probably won't see any 2003's for a least a few more weeks.
Sometimes, the new cars are "held in port" to aid the dealers (in the US, that is) get rid of last year's cars. The thought is that if you had a brand new last year's model and a brand new this year's model, the price reductions on last year's models would have to be even larger than they already are. Moreover, since a significant portion of Audi's are not purchased, but leased, the lease payments are often more favorable on the new car (because the residual is higher on the new than on the old)-- so some folks will lease an '03 over an '02, even though the price on the '02 is less (due to discounts).
They -- whoever they are -- say that the best time to BUY (in cash) a new car is when the MSRP is discounted the most. If Audi would ever offer 0.00% financing, that of course would be the way to BUY one of these cars if owning one was what you really wanted.
When financing a car, (i.e., Buying) end of year often makes sense -- and don't get me wrong, sometimes the lease deals at eoy can be very aggressive too.
So, the Audi folks in Germany told me that they make the new ones generally starting in July sometime. What AoA does with respect to bringing them to market may (often does) change the date when you can pick one up.
Being a car buying dinosaur, I always order my cars often as much as a year in advance. It takes way too much patience to do this, but the anticipation is exquisite.
As of today I have not received a response from the dealer where I had my car serviced and one of my CD's was taken. I will keep you all posted if I receive a response and what the response is.
Brian