Audi A4 2004 and earlier

lauk0dg · July 2002

I think the 02 A4 16" tires are also all season tires.....you can also try to ask the same question over at forums.audiworld.com/a4gen2. It does, however, sound like the tires that are the culprit.

Billy

mbnut1 · August 2002

I test drove an '02 1.8T with Pilot all season and an '02 3.0 with 17" Dunlops. I was turned off to how noisey the 16" tires were.

wie_gehts · August 2002

Thanks for the info on pricing. The 2003 model puts the xenon lights and sunroof into the premium package, so in order to get this, you now also have to buy the auto-dimming mirrors and the other stuff. Still no pricing info yet, but the best the dealer offered on a 3.0 quattro manual was $1000 below MSRP. I am not too happy with that. In general, can anyone recommend me a dealer in the SF/Silicon Vallet area? I was at Stevens Creek Audi-Porsche in San Jose. They were nice in general but didn't want to go lower at the price. Edmunds TMV is almost 1,500 below MSRP though. Also, since they special order the car, the get the dealer holdback anyway vs. selling me one from their lot.
Btw, the 6 speed manual is not too bad, it's not the greatest gearbox, but it isn't as bad as it sounds in the edmunds review. The shifts are precise but they sound and feel a little "metallic". ALso, I loved the denim-blue color of the longterm A4 in the pictures here at edmunds but didn't like the color at all when I saw it in real life. It was way too light, not a cool blue, but a silvery blue, looks a little washed out to me. Audi doesn't have a whole lot of great color choices. They have many silver and grey tones but you see them at every corner and I am getting tired of them. We really didn't want to go with a dark color but since Audi doesn't have a real cool blue, I think we might go with the ming-blue. It is very dark though, almost looks black, but I it still looks better than the other colors. Basically, there are only the choice between half a dozen silver and grey colors, a very dark green, a very dark blue, a red, and white, that's all. I've seen a much nicer blue on the previous A4, or maybe it was the S4, but they don't have this color anymore. In any case, if any of you can recommend me a good dealer in the Silicon Valley area, both price (when you bought it) and service wise, I am very grateful. Thanks.

tiredofmanual · August 2002

It came with the 16" Michelin Pilots, and they are a little noisy on concrete, but for stock tires, they are nice. When I wear them out, I'll probably get something else, as they are very expensive tires.

wie_gehts, I'm about 99% sure that there is no holdback on Audis. I'm also pretty sure that the 3.0 doesn't sell anywhere near as well as the 1.8T, so I would have guessed that you could get more than $1000 off. But... You were negotiating on a 2003, not a leftover 2002, right? Maybe that's the reason they don't want to go any lower.

PS - how should I handle the [full-size] spare when doing tire rotations? It seems to me that with Quattro, it would be important to have all 5 tires wear evenly.

lauk0dg · August 2002

Congrats.....so what's the detail on yours?

Regarding the tire rotations, during the first and only one free tire rotation done by Audi at 5k miles, they did not include the spare in the rotation. My guess is, since it's a spare and they think you are not supposed to drive on it even it's a full-size one, they do not include it in the rotation. I mean, if you have a flat at 20k miles and you need to put the spare on, you are going to drive it for maybe 50 miles max to your shop and fix the tire. I guess they think you wouldn't just slap the spare on and fix and put away the damaged tire. It's especially true when most of us (guilty me) don't check the tire pressure on the spare as often as we check the running tires.

Oh, also make sure when you go to outside tire places for wheel balancing or whatever, tell them you got an AWD car and DON'T rotate them from side to side. Just front to back and back to front on the same side.

Billy

dl7265 · August 2002

Read July 2002 Automobile Mag page 158. An owner of a 2000 Audi TT , said a left front tire was worn,Audi refused to replace one tire only citing rapid cluth wear, and would only replace 4 at a time, a independent "costco" told him the same thing . So is every one buy 4 ties a pop ? id have to pass on Q if thats the truth.

DL

kycchicken · August 2002

I called AoA last week and asked about the pricing on the 03 A4 1.8T Q, the representative told me the 03 base is $50 more than last yr model and most of the options are the same EXCEPT there will be no more leatherette seat anymore! Either you get the cloth or pay for the new optional leather. HOWEVER, by getting a leather seat you need to option a Premium Package which include Sunroof, homelink and leather for $2000. Which mean it will push the price highter than this yr model (except if you want a cloth seat). If anyone planing to get a A4 1.8T, you should better get the 02 NOW before they are gone!

dej0 · August 2002

Hi Gang,
It has been a while since I posted. I still like my '02 A4. It is definately a better driver than my '97. However, I think I like the 1.8T engine better than the 3.0. The bigger engine does have more power, but the fuel mileage is abysmal. I know, what did I expect? Anyway, we put about 2500 miles on it in two weeks of vacation this summer and it did great. It is a comfortable car for long trips. Also, I must say this is the best air conditioner I have ever had. It crushes the AC in my wife's 325 (which is also an '02).
Besides the fuel mileage and the hard to press radio buttons, my only complaint is using the car to pick up those occaionally large purchases. The trunk space is great, as my vacation demonstrated, but the opening is small. I am tired of borrowing my friends' minivans and SUVs to go to the store and pick up things that don't fit. Has anyone purchased the Audi rack system in a bid to make the car more useable? How about other aftermarket racks?
I agree with wei_gehts, the new blues are not that exciting. I loved the santorini blue on my '97, but not the new colors. I guess that is why the red is selling so well. I must admit, I like it and get lots of comments. Of course, the Pooh Bear window shade gets lots of comments too.

Ned

nyccarguy · August 2002

My friend has an '02 A4 3.0Q SP and has to replace his Z Rated Continental Tires after 15,000 miles (they can go a little more, but not much). He doesn't want to sacrifice the Z rated handling by getting all seasons, but doesn't want to have to go through tires (expensive ones at that) once a year for the duration of his lease. He figures he'd compromise a bit of the performance for slightly longer longevity with a set of V rated tires. Can anybody reccommend a set of V rated Tires? Thanks!

marleybarr · August 2002

Dej0,
You didn't mention what kind of mileage you were getting in your '02A4. For comparison, in my'00 2.7T w/tip I get 18-20 mpg (city) , around 22-24 mpg (hwy). Also, do you have the manual or tip setup?

white951 · August 2002

Hi everyone,

I am new to Edmunds townhall and never owned an Audi. I have found a local independant dealer with off lease A4's directly from Audi. Here is an example. early 1999 A4 1.8 Q, 5 speed, Leather, loaded, sport wheels, 36k miles, $17,900!!! Price seems very good. I would have a pre purchase inspection and he is OK with that. I have heard about the control arm issues and i am wondering if this is a recurring issue or if it won't happen when and if it needs to be addressed. Also, wondering about any other potential issues. I think it has original timing belts. He said 60k is Audi reccomended interval, but have others snapped before that. I own a 1986 Porsche 944 turbo, so i know all about premature timing belt failures. Do these have water pump failures like every other German car except for Mercedes?

John

andys120 · August 2002

'98 A4 w. 84k. 60K is the recommended interval for the 2.8, don't know about the 1.8T.

Independent dealer w. off-lease cars directly from Audi?? I'd worry that he was getting the rejects from Audi's excellent CPO program. Have it checked out thoroughly.

wie_gehts · August 2002

I called Audi USA and they also gave me pricing info on the A4 3.0l quattro 6 spd. In this case, the base MSRP is $200 more than last year. Plus the xenon and sunroof is rolled into the Premium package which now costs $2250. The other packages remain the same. They dropped some colors. I lastly decided on the Atlas Gray only to be informed that they are not going to offer that color. I went to the German Audi site, and there you can configure your Audi with some 20-25 different colors including some extremely cool blues and reds! I just don't understand why they don't offer them here. I didn't want silver, but hey, what else to get? There is no nice red, blue or green, not even a medium grey (the doplhin grey is very dark). It really is annoying and doesn[t make sense, but what can you do.
It's true that there is no leatherette anymore, but I think the 3.0 models have standard real leather now, you only pay extra for premium leather.

lauk0dg · August 2002

Actually I think in AudiWorld people are saying the recommended timing belt changing interval is at 90k and most people recommend 60k cuz a bunch of owners have them snapped right after 60k. So I'm thinking of changing it at 60k.

Oh also there is no leather available on the pre-02 A4 1.8T's. It must be leatherette you are looking at, which wears great and looks and feels like leather.

Billy

lauk0dg · August 2002

I think in 2002 Atlas Grey was offered only on Avants. You didn't say if you are looking for a sedan or an avant but if you are looking for a sedan, it didn't have atlas grey at all. What about crystal blue? I haven't seen the car in that color in person but it looks alright on the audiusa website.

I like the amulet red the most.....it's a spicy red color and with the genuine Audi front lip and trunk spoilers and underbody kit installed in an example of a 1.8T in a local dealership, I just love it.

Billy

srhom · August 2002

I have a 2001 Santorin Blue A4 that got pooped on by a bird or birds (had to have been big) twice; within hours both times I washed the car and there were visible blemishes in the clear coat. Tried every wax/polish/bug&tar remover/cleaner, but can't get the blemishes out. Anyone had this happen, or can anyone offer a suggestion? Can a professional buff these blemishes out? On another topic, at about 5000 miles one of the "coil packs" failed, which means I lost one of four (1.8T) cylinders. The dealer replaced all four packs plus the plugs (under warranty). This incident didn't exactly make me feel good about Audi reliability. Anyone had a similar problem?

mbnut1 · August 2002

Andys120
Which engine do you have?

Laukodg
I'm at 66k with my '98 1.8T and honestly pretty worried. Which engines had the belt snap at 60k? 1.8T or 2.8's. My dealer told me to replace it at 60K because of having seen the 60K failure.

Srhom
Nothing to offer but sympathy. My black paint is a mess. Tried everything that I can think of. I think that the only thing that I have accomplished is dulling the clear coat.

jaydoll · August 2002

dejO,

I'm stumped!

What is it that you like more about the 1.8T compared to your 3.0? Is it the low end turbo lag that requires using first gear all the time? Or could it be the whinning noise you would have heard from the 1.8 T on the highway during your vacation as the 1.8 T is turning 4K RPM at 80mph? Must be the leatherette seats.

tiredofmanual · August 2002

Billy, mine is a 1.8T Quattro with manual tranny, sunroof, premium package, heated seats, and 16" wheels. I got the dolphin gray and the platinum interior.
If you were to put the spare into normal rotation, I don't see anything wrong or unusual about just putting the fixed tire in the trunk and keeping the spare on. After all, in less than 5000 miles, the fixed tire will be back on the car.

Don, you really should be replacing all 4 tires at a time with the Quattro system. In fact, any full-time/automatically engaging 4wd system is going to be that way. Part of the way they work is sensing the differences in each of your wheel speeds. A brand new tire is going to have a greater diameter than a slightly worn tire, so even going in a straight line on a dry road will register a slight difference in wheel speeds. This can potentially cause unnecessary wear on drivetrain parts, among other things. You can get away with buying tires in pairs (front/back) with a 2wd car, but if you regularly rotate them, you'll end up buying them in sets of 4 anyway. The cost ends up being the same as well - you just pay twice as much half as often.

dl7265 · August 2002

Makes sense ,if it was normal wear , not too bad, but say you have 10k miles on your set and blow a tire beyond, repair. All of a sudden your flat is costing you $600.00.

DL

lauk0dg · August 2002

srhom, nope, I haven't had problems with the coil pack for the 22k miles I've put on my 2001.5. Sorry to hear you needed to go thru all those issues when the car only had 5k miles.

mbnut, most of the guys on AudiWorld have the 1.8T engine cuz it's easier to mod and tune. As a result it might not be surprising to hear more snapping timing belts on the 1.8T engine. However I think there is a guy there who just had his timing belt snapped at 89k on a 2.8 engine. I'm replacing mine at 60k, no doubt.

jaydoll, you don't hear the engine whines at 4k at 80mph on the highway. You only hear it when you are accelerating (increasing boost). And it's not a bad whining noise either.....it's pretty sweet. Low end torque is definitely why I picked the 1.8T engine.....and it's fuel economy that's far more superb than the V6.

Billy

parker19 · August 2002

Here is an offer for 2002 Audi a4 1.8T with 2800 miles ... asking price 25,000 ... would you buy this over a new accord v6

Features: ABS, Air Conditioning, Alarm, Alloy Wheels, AM/FM Radio, Bucket Seating, Cassette Radio, CD Player, Cruise Control, Driver-Side Airbag, Leather Interior, Moon Roof, Passenger-Side Airbag, Power Locks, Power Steering, Power Windows, Rear Air Conditioning, Rear Window Defroster, Remote Alarm Control, Side-Impact Airbags, Sun Roof

Dolphin Gray 4DR Sedan, 2800 Miles, Automanual Transmission, 4 Cylinders, Excellent Condition. Car is 2 months old, incredible condition, just as new....Need to sell because moving to another country.

nyccarguy · August 2002

I'd seriously have that car checked out before you buy it (with the servicing dealer). They might be having some problems with the car and want to get rid of it. Moving to another country? That sounds a little fishy to me. Who buys a new car and then moves to another country 2 months later? You've got to have some idea or notice that you're going to move.

andys120 · August 2002

rated @190hp. That brings up a question. Why doesn't the new 3.0 develop more power?

At 220 HP it has less power than the Yamaha V6/4-valve in my '91 SHO had (225hp).

FWIW the Yamaha felt better @ high rpms than my 2.8 which gets buzzy over 5500 rpms.

parker19 · August 2002

Here is an offer for 2002 Audi a4 1.8T with 2800 miles ... asking price 25,000 ... would you buy this over a new accord v6

Features: ABS, Air Conditioning, Alarm, Alloy Wheels, AM/FM Radio, Bucket Seating, Cassette Radio, CD Player, Cruise Control, Driver-Side Airbag, Leather Interior, Moon Roof, Passenger-Side Airbag, Power Locks, Power Steering, Power Windows, Rear Air Conditioning, Rear Window Defroster, Remote Alarm Control, Side-Impact Airbags, Sun Roof

Dolphin Gray 4DR Sedan, 2800 Miles, Automanual Transmission, 4 Cylinders, Excellent Condition. Car is 2 months old, incredible condition, just as new....Need to sell because moving to another country.

lauk0dg · August 2002

Couple of features sound fishy:

- there is no leather interior in the 2002 A4 1.8T available.
- there is no rear air conditioning in the A4's. Just the rear seat heaters if it has that option.

I think it's not a bad deal if you like the equipment and color combo in the car.....but I bet it should be close to year end 02 sale for new 02's so you might get similar deal on 02's.

Billy

audibon · August 2002

Dej0- We chose the 1.8T for the same reasons most chose it in 2001. It has good low end grunt and after driving both cars back to back could not see spending the extra $$$ for a 2.8 with that engine, leather and power seats. A seat of the pants test to my wife and I told us the 1.8T would be more fun to drive. Spend $500 on a chip then you have something really exciting to play with. Plus a lot of S4 owners sell their stock parts which fit on an A4 if you want to upgrade that way. If we had the cash we would have bought the S4 and not the 2.8. My friend who tested the '02 A4 extensively drove both the 1.8 and the 3.0 and had the same reaction. I don't need to use first gear that much at all, I usually heal and toe or blip the throttle to keep revs high and turbo lag low.
Lauk0dg- I agree with Billy the low end grunt and mileage are better, it is easier to modify and it won't cost an arm and a leg to do it. My Suzuki Grand Vitara in 5th gear (Yes, my small SUV is a stick!?!?) at 80mph spins the 2.5L 24 valve V6 at 3500rpm. That is kinda of on the high side as well, but manufacturers are choosing gearing for manual cars to keep the engine in the powerband which is between 3k and 4k regardless of turbo or not. This spins the engine faster but you won't have to row the stick through as many gears to pass. I think most engines are well made at this point especially if you change the oil, filter and air filter to keep all the gunk out it should not be an issue.
Andys120- Good question! I had an '83 Toyota Supra with the Yamaha straight six DOHC, fuel injection and 5spd. My friend always thought that car was cool because it had a lot of torque. I could light up the 235's with no problem on that car and the engine was solid. I think that when it comes to normally aspirated engines Audi is missing something. I think when you have an undersquare design that aids low end torque with a turbo that may hurt when you don't have a turbo. They should talk to BMW, Honda, Nissan, Yamaha, Mercedes and get some feedback to improve the 3.0 a little bit. That engine almost reminds me of the Lexus IS300 with great numbers but a let down on the test drive. Just some thoughts, sorry so long. Later.
Brian

audibon · August 2002

FYI ALL:
Undersquare--An engine with the stroke larger than the bore, a design conducive to low-end torque, but usually not to horsepower. Undersquare motors were much more common in the prewar period than they are today.
3.0 1.8T 2.7T 4.2
Bore-3.25in. 3.18in. 3.19in. 3.32in.
Stroke-3.65in. 3.40in. 3.40in. 3.66in.

Audi gets some decent Hp and torque (but not M5 numbers) out of the 4.2 especially in the S8 because it breathes well and the compression ratio is high at 10.8:1. The 3.0 compression is at 10.5 and all the turbo engines are under 10 (9.3 to be exact) which makes sense because you want to avoid preignition in a turbo engine at all cost. Just wanted to explain the terminology to everyone a little bit more. Thanks for listening.
Brian

schwitzer1 · August 2002

Now, after some extensive playing with aftermarket parts, I'm even happier. The chip gives more power, and the exhaust reduces back-pressure. I get better gas mileage on the highway with more horsepower. It's the best of both worlds.
My car has been very reliable, safe, and enjoyable to drive.

andys120 · August 2002

why doesn't the factory put in more aggressive chips? MPG tradeoff? Turbo life? Just curious.

tiredofmanual · August 2002

It may be because it would be even harder to sell the 3.0 if the 1.8T was putting out 200+ HP. Don't forget that the 1.8T in the TT is the exact same engine as the 1.8T in the A4, and it puts out 225 HP. Actually, I think the TT has a little bit better exhaust routing, but that doesn't make for a 55 HP difference.

Don, you make a very good point about the costs of an unrepairable flat with Quattro, although you would likely just put the spare on and hope you don't have terrible luck.

audibon · August 2002

All:
I think you guys jinxed my wife and I or I did it to myself reading about the tire issue. Our right rear went flat the other day!? My dealer wants $25.50 to fix it IF it is repairable?! Seems high to me... Anybody ever change a tire on an Audi before? Kind of a goofy way to have the rim attach to the rotor isn't it? Actually have been looking at new houses under construction around the neighborhood and picked up a nail during one of our trips to a subdivision most likely. Just a tip for other owners when checking out houses you may be in dangerous territory for your tires. Safe driving.
Brian

dej0 · August 2002

Marleybarr,
I am getting about 18 mpg in the city and maybe 25 highway with my '02 3.0Q. I have a manual. The '97 1.8T did about 25 mpg city and 30+ on the highway. I did not think the poor mileage would bother me so much, but it does. I also hate having to fill up so often. I would think that Audi would offer a larger fuel tank in these things.

Jaydoll,
Yes, the 3.0 sounds better, but you weren't paying attention in your haste to be sarcastic. I don't like the poor fuel economy and I don't like the hard to push stereo buttons. Yes, this is nit picking. On the 3 series the stereo controls are on the steering wheel also. They are easy to push and don't leave indentions in your fingers. However, I hate the placement of the window controls on the BMW, they are in the center console near the parking brake. Hey, if you like leather enough to spend the extra cash for something that cracks and stains, all the power to you. Maybe when I don't have to haul a 2 year old around I will agree with you. Please keep in mind that I do love this car, and yes, I do like the bigger engine. I just wish that it got better mileage. I will have to keep that in consideration for future purchases.

Now back to my original question, does anyone have any experiences with putting a rack on one of these things?

lauk0dg · August 2002

Oh go to Discount Tire and they fix tires for you for free, regardless if you bought it from them or not. Did you see where you got the puncture "wound"? Is it on the sidewall or on the tread? If it's on the sidewall you are ready for a new tire. If it's not too big on tread they'll patch it for free.

I also had a nail who got its way into my driver's side rear and for 2 weeks I noticed a very slow leak in tire pressure but just couldn't find the nail. One day walking over to get the car under bright sunshine and there it was, the devil shiny rays reflecting from the nail head.

Billy

marleybarr · August 2002

dejO,
Those figures on a manual sure seem somewhat low.I'm almost getting the same out of my 2.7T w/tip.
Do you drive the vehicle excessively hard or are you running w/ low tire psi?
It would seem that this Audi could do better than 18 mpg (in town) , especially w/stick???

wculbert · August 2002

I am ordering an 03 A4-3.0. Does anyone know anything about the phone systems Audi offers? The literature is confusiing to me as all I want is a handsfree phone. Thanks!

wculbert · August 2002

Does anybody know anything about these 2 entries into my, already confusing, new car search? Price, availability, etc?

jaydoll · August 2002

lauk0dg,

Sorry no experience putting a rack on one of these. What type of rack are you looking for? Top of car ski/bike or back bike rack? Have you checked into Thule or Yakima if it is for either of these applications?

Hope this helps

markjenn · August 2002

I think people minimize the issues with chipping the 1.8T motor. Yes, the basic motor makes 225-hp in the TT, but that doesn't mean the only difference between the 170-hp and 225-hp engines is the chip. The TT motor has a number of modifications including a different turbo, different wastegate, changes in the induction system, changes in the exhaust, etc. Many chips just push the boost higher without making these other modifications and reliability and driveability can be affected.

There is no free lunch, although chipping the 1.8T motor is a pretty cheap one.

- Mark

lauk0dg · August 2002

OK the 03 Cab will have a 3.0L V6 engine but NO Quattro. At least not when it's introduced. Audi cited that 60-75% of the buyers of Cabriolets will be living in the sunshine belt and they're not going to venture into the snowy areas. So no Quattro for now.

The S4 won't come out till next year as a 04 model, I think. It's confirmed to have a V8 engine making 340hp. It's of course going to be based on the current 02 A4 with a few visual mods and different rims and maybe different suspension.

Isn't it fun to go through car shopping again.....

Billy

tiredofmanual · August 2002

I completely agree with you. The differences between the TT and the A4 are relatively minor, and they're nowhere near 55 HP worth of difference. I do believe that the internals of the engine (which would be my main concern, along with fuel delivery) are most likely identical for ease of manufacture. To me, the engine can handle a lot more than it is putting out and still be just as reliable.

As for me, I'm about 50/50 on whether I will chip mine when it gets to 10 or 15,000 miles. If I did, I would get a mild one (200 HP max) and put the TT bypass valve on (can be had for ~$30). This will be a year from now, so by then we'll have a lot of evidence on how well the chips work with the new A4.

dl7265 · August 2002

i didnt jix ya. Ditto on the Discount tire free fix. i just seem to pick up a nail ever new tire i get, and yes a lot of those are in new housing areas...

dejo, ive looked for a bike rack for my 3er , without any luck but the Thule has ad's showing Audi's so they should have several...
DL

a4holic · August 2002

hey folks just wondering if anyone here has any experience with after market springs to lower thier a4. im planning to buy just the base model, and would like to lower the car to decrease the wheel gap for added looks and performance. whats the worst that can happen? can it be reversed? also the sports package with 17's seem to common. probably going to ebay for different audi rims. btw the springs will be from eibach. thanx all.

markcincinnati · August 2002

I am pretty certain that the cost of the factory sport suspension is less than you will pay for a decent aftermarket set up. And you will get the factory touches which MAY make the car less problematic. If you are looking for an ultra low suspension, this is a different matter. The typical factory setup lowers the car about 20mm over standard comfort suspension. It is possible to lower the car 35mm with some aftermarket spring kits.

Of course the really lowered suspensions may benefit from front and rear antisway bar upgrades and even strut upgrades -- then it really adds up $. If you can get the factory sport set up you will probably be pleased and the cost will be less.

Just a thought.

greggsa4 · August 2002

I owned an A4 1.8T and it was the WORST car I ever owned. Although it was a great looking car, my problems were many. It was a 97 with 38000 miles. I am very meticulous about the care of my vehicles. The car was out of warranty and I put $ 2,800 into it in a 6 week period (including $1700 for a new turbo. I spoke with Audi about the problems I had and sent them all of my records. They said tough luck. Learn from my mistake and buy the Honda.

markcincinnati · August 2002

My wife and I have had many Audi's since 1978. They have not been perfect. We have never kept one without a warranty -- not because it was an Audi, not even because it was an import car -- just because anything as expensive as a car can have expensive issues.

I am certain that there are Hondas and Acuras and Toyotas and Lexus' cars that have failed and caused their owners to write checks and become disgruntled.

Do you own a house (or do you live in a house the bank owns that you make payments on?)

If you do, would you dream of living in it without full property, casualty, theft, flood, act of god insurance coverage? Owning/leasing/financing a car without "breakdown" insurance (factory or extended or aftermarket warantee) is, IMO, analgous to living in a house you own without coverage in the event that there is a fire, flood, theft or other disaster.

I would be very upset with Audi if I had to pay the outrageous repair bills that I am certain they would charge if my engine, transmission or power window motor would cost. But this applies to any car manufacturer's product.

If you decide on a Honda or an Audi -- protect your pocketbook. A blown engine in a Honda or an Audi or a Ford or a Jaguar, etc. will be very expen$ive indeed.

Everything mechanical will fail eventually. I find Audi's so much of a joy to own and drive, pehaps you will too.

And, no matter what, this is not a "dis" on the Honda. I just happen to enjoy the Audi when I am behind the wheel. And since I have protected my pocketbook from catastrophies, I am much less likely to find fault with them.

greggsa4 · August 2002

Yes Mark I do own a house. Actually I own several as I am a part time real estate investor. Having mortgages on my propeties, I'm required to have insurance. My wife was an F&I manager at a dealership for several years. I am very familiar with the pros and cons of purchasing extended warranties. After purchasing warranties on ALL of the former cars we have owned (Toyota, Mitsubishi, Chevy, Pontiac) we have never recouped our expenditure. Buying a "quality" car like Audi we opted against it for the first time ever. What a horrible mistake. After speaking to the service dept. at the local Audi dealership, the rep told me to contact Audi. He said that they might be willing to compensate me for the parts or labor. No such luck. Nothing! My brother works for a Ford dealership and he said he has seen Ford do just that many times( I have no interest in a Ford product). My expereince with Toyota has been so wonderful, I sold my Audi and bought a new Highlander. I couldn't be happier. Good luck with your vehicle, personally I will never buy an Audi again and will discourage others from doing so whenever I'm given the opportunity.

markcincinnati · August 2002

And perhaps will make an effort to compensate you. Of the things you wrote the most disturbing was the fact that AoA apparently did not come to your aid.

I have never had a claim on my home or auto insurance, so I guess I too have not recouped my "losses" on these premiums. But if my house burns and I am compensated, it will probably have been worth it. One claim in a lifetime may make it all worthwhile.

Just another point of view. Good luck with your Toyota!

mbnut1 · August 2002

The issue isn't only about the potential cost of repair though that is certainly a major factor, but also the likelyhood that the repair will be required. I certainly would never pay much money to get an extended warrenty for a Toyota. That position is based on the ample amount of anecdotal evidence that it is not LIKELY to require a "breathtakingly expensive repair" whereas IMHO for an AUDI that case get's more difficult to make.

markcincinnati · August 2002

Are breathtakingly expensive to repair and maintain. Their cousins include but are not limited to:

BMW
Jaguar
Mercedes
Saab
Volkswagen
Volvo

My friends who have the above brands -- even those who love the brand -- have stories of hyper expensive maintenance and/or repair costs (usually, thankfully, covered by warranty or factory service agreements). A few of my friends have Japanese cars, usually Nissan or Toyota or Honda's upscale machines.

It is my observation that the Japanese brands are also breathtakingly expensive to repair and maintain -- but, in all objectivity that is possible for one person to muster -- I would agree the Japanese cars "seem" to require less maintenance and repair.

Of course there are those with the 200,000 mile Volvos and decades old Saabs and VW beetles from the 60's and 70's -- but those are, admitedly rare.

One of my friends has an Acura, his previous car was a BMW, prior to that a Saab. He says the Saab was his best and worst car. Best to drive worst to maintain. He said "I give" and got the Acura which is not much fun to drive but is seldom in need of a visit to "the shop."

My wife's TT now has 37k miles on it and has had very few non maintenance issues. It is probably the most reliable car I have ever known from Europe -- period. And, it "seems" to be the most reliable car I have ever known of from any country or manufacturer. Although she did have a flat tire last Friday.

Based on my experiences and my friends stories -- European cars ARE LESS RELIABLE and more desirable. Now if the twain should meet and produce a German engineered and Japanese "realized" car -- perhaps THAT would be automotive Nirvana. I'll keep the German car with the extra protection until such an offspring is born however.

Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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