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Comments
Good luck in your repairs and let me know where the dealership recommended you to go get the repairs and if they are good in doing it.
Billy
I always try to take good care of my cars, because the car might end up giving its life for mine one day.
Brian
I am currently in the 31st month of a 39 month lease on a Volvo S80 2.9. Since I have basically decided that I am turning the car in at the end of the lease, I have started (rather early) doing some research on a new car. Since the S80 was leased under odd circumstances, I am looking at a car that better fits my age bracket (24) and one that is somewhat cheaper.
After looking through tons of web pages and attending the New England Auto Show here in Boston, I have narrowed my car choices down to the following: Audi (1.8T and 3.0, possibly quattro), BMW (325i and 325xi), and Saab 9-3 (Linear and Arc). Before doing in for test drives, I would like to have my choices narrowed down to 1 from each group with specific options.
I would like some suggestions on the following: Is the Audi A4 3.0 worth the extra cost over the 1.8T or is there really no noticeable difference? Is Quattro necessary/better for value on the Audis? How does Audi's quattro compare to BMW's AWD? With the Saab 9-3 being a total redesign and under GM's control, will it run into reliability problems? Since the A4 is also a new design, will it too run into reliability problems?
Thanks for the help.
Michael
In the northeast area, buying an Audi without Quattro is like ordering ham and egg without the ham. Plus, it will hurt your resale value down the road, if you care about that.
The Audi's quattro system is IMHO, more advance and better implimented than the one offered by BMW, especially in the 3 series.
The Saab do have some torque steer issue, but drive it yourself and decide, plus the interior fit and finish is no where near the Audi or BMW. If that's important to you.
First of all the AWD makes handling better and in snow the AWD is terrific. It is definitely worth the money if you will encounter snow.
The 3.0 is much smoother and probably accelerates better from 50-70 MPH which is the only acceleration that is meaningful to me. That is not to say that the 1.8 is slow or that you have time to drink a cup of coffee due to turbo lag. The 1.8 is a quick car, all that I will ever need, although HP, like money is nice to have around to show off.
The big difference between the 1.8 and the 3.0 is gas mileage. The mileage in the 3.0 is terrible in town. I live in a small town where you cannot go 35 MPH for long distances. It is stop and go and the 3.0 will be lucky to get 14 MPG. The 1.8 is in the low 20s. On the road the 3.0 will go about 24 MPG and the 1.8 around 30 MPG at the legal speed plus 5 MPH. IMHO, there is a clear choice between the two. If you want the smoothness, go with the 3.0, but initial cost and operating costs will be larger. The incremental advantage in performance with the 3.0 isn't worth much to me as I never carry 4 people on trips where passing is important. It's kind of fun driving a 4 cylinder in an extremely good looking small car that is getting really good gas mileage. This little car is equipped with almost everything you could ask for and then you mash the accelerator pedal and the turbo kicks in and turns you into a pretty respectable high performance vehicle. As I tell my wife in her Passat 3.0, you can have it both ways.
Quattro does do nice things for the handling on dry pavement as well as in yucky weather. Be sure you drive a quattro equipped car before you decide.
I've owned several Saabs, the most recent being a GM ('96 900S) and IMO GM has done nothing but good for Saab. I don't know if I agree withe the comment about Saab interiors being of poorer quality than Audi's or Beemer's. They are a bit plainer but materials are good and the seats (especially w Leather) are the best.
Back to A4s....I think I'm the A4 mileage champ in TH w 90k on a '98 Quattro Avant 2.8. AFAIC
reliability has been excellent, on a par w Hondas I've owned--I had an '85 Prelude for 12 years.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I can only relate what my considerable experience has been. Perhaps we have a reader who has a similar experience with the 3.0 V6 who can state that the 3.0 is indeed a screamer and gets good gas mileage in town and is cheaper to own and operate than the 1.8. Until then I will stand by what I posted earlier with the caveat that I was in error about the difference between the Passat and Audi V6s.
I like the BMW line just a few points to remember on them is you will not have comparable trunk space as an A4, the price climbs quickly with options and the AWD system that BMW uses is no match for quattro. I have not driven or riden in a 3 series only looked at them on the lot. I have ridden in a 540I and felt rather cramped in comparison to an A4 and especially an A6. The 540 is a great car nonetheless but it behoves you to drive all of your candidates and then make an informed decision.
I have no experience with Saab other than that they were offering deep discounts a few months ago to make room for the redesigned models for '03... Maybe others on this board can comment on Saab from firsthand experience. Good luck shopping and let us know your thoughts whatever you choose. Another perspective is always welcome.
Brian
1. Low RPM Turbo lag- The 1.8T has it and the 3.0 doesn't. The 1.8T does get up and go after the turbo starts spinning. The 3.0 is get up and go from very low rpms.
2. At 80 mph, the 1.8T is at just about 4K rpm. While not obnoxious loud noise, you hear the engine working. The 3.0 is cruising very comfortable at 80 mph doing approx 3200rpm. Step on the gas in 6th gear at 80 mph and it will give you instant passing power.
3. Gas mileage- who cares.
J
I have never driven a 325, but my co-worker has a 2000 323 that's nice enough. I just don't expect manual seats or a slightly austere cabin in a car that costs $30,000+. It handles nicely though, and rides like a dream.
I don't know anything about Saabs, except that their parts are very expensive when they go and that the cars don't hold their value well at all. Another one of my co-workers has a 9-5 and hasn't had any trouble with it though.
Drive all 3, then decide which one you like the best.
The A4 1.8T with all the toys, stick shift, sport everything and about $500 in a chip will be a screamer compared to the 3.0 and will be an even bigger bargain.
The 3.0 on the other hand, has some luxury appointments and options that the 1.8T does not have.
Overall it is a cheap way to get grunt.
I got to waterloo, found my radiator had just started leaking, and had the car towed to the dealer. Found that the car had really been banged up quite badly - to the tune of 3,500 US. Well, thank God for insurance - Plus, my premium wont be going higher as an animal collision is not my fault - the proof? - dog hairs stuck in the front bumper:P
Well, I suppose it's a great learning expirience - I should get my car back in 2 days, its at Crosby Audi/VW in Kitchner, ON.
I guess ---- happens.
All the best,
Mishal
It must be a big dog.....yeah.....glad you are ok and poor doggie.
Billy
2003 a4 quattro 5M (dest incl) 24961 27360
premium package 1424 1600
sport package 890 1000
dolphin gray pearl 401 450
totals 27676 30410
The dealer says he will do 5% over invoice, but he claims that I have to add another $401 for metallic paint onto the invoice price listed above. But we agree what the msrp is on the car. I asked him if we have to add something into the invoice price shouldn't are msrps disagree. Didn't get a satisfactory explanation to that, he insists the correct invoice is $401 + $27676. Isn't he just trying to gouge me out of another $401? My figures come out the same on kbb.com and edmunds.com
Rich-- Welcome. Personally, I've only seen one application for the rack system on the sedan. From what I can recall, it doesn't "touch" the paint but I have no personal experience with it. Here's a bit of information from "The Audi Collection:" click here
--'rocco
I"m looking to acquire a a4 1.8t with quatro. While i'm leaning toward a 03, i'm concerned with the depreciation when I drive the car off the lot. Is purchasing an used Audi a bad idea? Is Audi a car that should always be leased due to it's reliability? I guess the base question is: are Audis reliable cars?
Lastly, can anyone give me the lowdown on the different purchase programs. IE. premier purchase, lease, etc.
Thanks for all your help!
I'll probably go for another CPO. I recommend the same to you if you want to avoid the big depreciation hit.
Be aware that 02 1.8Ts have had a batch of faulty coil packs that have left owners stranded. Audi
warranties cover this problem and they've acknowledged it and are apparently going to a new supplier. Be sure to ask your dealer about it.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
What is "CPO"?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
And as part of their option, they have the Navigation system, but how and where do they display the map? is it as nice and fancy as it is on other cars, ie Lexus, or do they just display a very tiny map in the retangle box in between the speedometer and tach?
Are they worth the price? Can anyone tell me their opinions? perhaps someone who has them or at least seen them?
Thanks in advace~!
The nav in the 3.0 is the "nav lite." You're right, its display is in the little rectangular area between the tach and the speedometer which also serves as the Driver Information Display which includes a condensed radio display, active Auto Check system with speed warning device, pictogram display for open door/trunk lid and 6-function trip computer including outside temperature gauge. So the nav isn't one of the full-featured ones with the detailed display. If you have read the posts at AudiWorld, you'll see that some people really like "nav lite" --including Mark, our resident Audi expert here on these boards-- and some don't think it's worth the "trouble." To me, I tend to think that it isn't worth the price they're charging and probably wouldn't order it myself unless Audi finally decides to put a full nav system in which I'm hearing is in the works for the A4. I believe the 3.0 Cabriolet already does have "full" GPS nav as an option ...or does it?, I don't know for sure.
--'rocco
Bad traffic in Pittsburgh -- punch in my return destination, and tell the computer there is traffic and please come up with an alternate -- +3 miles and ta da -- home (to my in laws).
I would prefer the full sat nav plus system. I would pay for it. The sat nav lite is "worth" the MSRP minus the normal discount off of list, IMHO. Mine is "coupled" with Audi telematics, a built in phone and Sat Nav lite. I love it. My On*star had a bug in it, now 100% fixed.
Very impressed -- again, just wish it had full sat nav plus and a DVD map (you get 11 CD's with it). I did not have to change any CD to go from Cincinnati to Pittsburgh to Columbus OH to Dayton Oh and back to Cincinnati.
The weekend was made "stress free" and I would argue safer thanks to Audi Nav lite. I never did like to stop and ask directions -- and read a map? Fugetaboutit!
Don't leave home without it.
Billy
NavPlus will probably be priced between $2495 and $2995 -- my Nav lite was about $1300, with all the maps (my friend's BMW only had one map).
On the Mercedes, even the Nav Lady is the same -- and we all know how things are priced on a Merc.
So, even though I do want the Nav Plus, I think its value -- excluding its sizzle value -- is actually less.
Driving in snow, in heavy traffic in an unfamiliar urban situation, with four other people in the car (which I did this past weekend in Pittsburgh), I consider even the sat nav lite to be a very worthwhile safety feature AND a convenience feature.
Don't sell it short, because it "ain't Victoria's Secret" sexy (which it isn't).
Hopefully we (in the US) will get the Nav Plus and the map will be a DVD and the price will be "realistic: @ $1995" perhaps (or less). But in the mean time, this is a very nice feature that is very very cool in functionality and utility and value, but not too cool in implementation (it looks clunky when compared to NavPlus). But it does the job very well.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I think half of the reason of getting the nav system is that it looks cool with the diplayed map, haha. But if it does serve the job well, and is cheaper, then I guess it's not too bad.
Here's a pic of one in a S4 Avant: http://www.audiworld.com/news/02/new_s4/2003s4005.jpg
--'rocco
How come the Europeans get to have so much more options.....if you guys are interested, go to the Audi site at UK and try to configure one.....you can even order a debadged Audi.
http://www.audi.co.uk/newcars/model.jsp?section=/models/a4/saloon
Billy
Good luck finding a bodyshop in Jersey.
Billy