Audi A4 2004 and earlier

dwgutwir · June 2003

Is there a way to determine if a dealership has an ABS (other than calling)?

Thanks.

lauk0dg · June 2003

He's bluffing. First of all, the way they set up the track, there is no way you can hit 172mph. You can go fast from turn 3 into 4 and down the straight from 4 to 1, but that's it. There were slaloms, tight turns, and cones set up along the speedway. Even the instructors (professional race car drivers) when they drove the 6 cars racing each other didn't go anywhere over 100. I didn't see the exact speed (cuz of the excitement), but I'm pretty sure we didn't go 3-digit speeds. I'd say both for safety (3 guests with the race car driver) and insurance. But even going at 90mph with 6 cars going within feet from each other taking turns and everything and power drifting slightly through the turns were exhilarating enough.

That is unless, he got a private showing of the car before or after all the festivities cuz he has owned numerous Audi's before and AoA wants him to buy one. But I highly doubt it.

Billy

merc1 · June 2003

Sounds like you have a hell of a time, thanks for the report. How did you even find out about the event? The format of the Audi event sounds just like the Mercedes-Benz Powerdrive of 2001 that I attended. I have invitations from everyone this summer for something, Land Rover, BMW, Cadillac and others...but no Audi. I want one from Audi!

M

lauk0dg · June 2003

Well in the Audi Quattro Challenge in 2001, when I logged on to the "MyAudi" on AudiUSA's website, I got an invitation there. The prerequisite is you have to own an Audi that's 98 or newer. Unlike the M-B event when they put out new cars and invite anyone pretty much with a driver's license to attend.

This time around, they were trying to invite the ones that were on the waiting list in 2001 to go, plus people who just bought an Audi. So I didn't hear about it until 2 weeks before the event at an Audi Chicagoland Club event. People there told us that they were able to get in because of cancellations. So I called up 1-800-FOR-AUDI and got in too.

My suggestion (for myself too) would be to call up Audi like around mid-late winter and see what they got in store. Ask them if they have a Quattro Challenge event set up somewhere. Just make sure you mean that and not the Audi Driving School organized by Panoz. I heard it's a very fun event there too, but that one costs money and you need to go there, versus Quattro Challenge when they actually travel around the country and "come to you".

Billy

merc1 · June 2003

Ok, thanks.

M

wantnaudi · June 2003

So I've been doing some car shopping and have pretty much narrowed it down to either a Volvo LSE which is full of options or an Audi A4 1.8 with pretty much no options except maybe some metallic paint. Because of the ride and feeling of the car I've pretty much decided on the audi but i have some questions about the pricing. i have the invoice at about $24466 including destination charge, but the dealer said invoice was somewhere in the upper 25s because of ad charges and such. Are they being honest or just trying to get money out of me? If the invoice is what i have it as, would $25k be a good deal?

andys120 · June 2003

40, 60 or 70 series. Why not check the invoice price on Edmunds? In some areas dealers muyst pay an ad charge per car sold, so it does legitimately represent a cost to him of $200-$500
per car, anything more is ludicrous.

wantnaudi · June 2003

Volvo LSE is the new volvo Limited Sports Edition. It comes in a lot of different models, but basically I'm looking at the S40 limited edition. I've checked invoice prices at a lot of different sites and for an automatic it's 23804, plus 660 destination charge. Basically, the problem is that I'm a 19 year old student in college and my parents will pay anything up to $25000 and I'm going to have to put up the rest, which is going to be a bit difficult. Anyway, this Audi Ad Association charge thing is really bothering me

andys120 · June 2003

You'd be better off with a used A4 rather than a new S40. You may be able to get a CPO A4 1.8T for a little more than $20k (CPO=Certified* Pre-Owned). The little Volvo is regarded as a lackluster car, check out some comparative road tests.

As for the ad charges etc, they seem excessive. I'd try another dealer. They're hungry to move cars ion this poor economy.

*CPO cars are generally off-lease units with strong service histories, low miles and factory warranties-I have one.

tiredofmanual · June 2003

What is your location? I don't recall any ad fees when I purchased mine last year in the Chicago area. Perhaps you should go over to the Smart Shopper forums and post in the Any Questions for a Car Dealer thread. Some of the salesmen that post in there may be able to tell you if you are being had or if the charge is legitimate.

One thing is for sure - at least around here, Audi doesn't advertise very much at all. I probably see 10 BMW and Mercedes ads for every Audi ad.

bmwdriver02 · June 2003

Anybody have good experiences with Anchor Audi in Lynbrook, NY? My wife and I are considering replacing her 99 Accord EX with a A4 3.0 Quattro in either Light Silver Metallic, Dolphin Gray Metallic, Denim Blue Pearl, or Ming Blue Pearl.

And does anybody have an opinion on Crystal Blue?

onie1 · June 2003

Bought one last week. I picked the color because there are too many silver cars and i would never buy a dark color again. Light colors are easier to maintain. Swirl marks and scratches do not show unless you are really up close. That's just my opinion. You should pick the color you like best .

phisch · June 2003

Sorry I never read your reply to my post. I didn't see any posts so I haven't gone back for a while. The dealer and several independents called it a flex connector to my husband. It is apparently made of stainless steel I think and is attached to the catalytic converter, therefore making it neccessary to replace the whole unit. I never listed to it when the car was on the lift, but it must have sounded like some kind of hole/leak in the system because the independent audi guys picked it up right away. they said they get brittle with time. Audi declined to assist us in anyway.

gearhead10 · June 2003

Dealer I bought from had ad fees of around $480 so they are legit but anything more than $500 is probably bogus. I see the invoice including these fees at around $23800 so I'm thinking you could probably buy one for $24400 or less. Actually, I think you biggest problem may be FINDING one that has absolutely no options like you're looking for. Since the '04s are coming in soon, if you are not in a hurry you could probably find an '03 for close to invoice once the '04s come in.

I also got 1.9% financing but I'm not sure if that is still available. This might help your parents out to maybe 'soften' the price limit if they have better things to do with their cash than save 1.9% ;-)

bmwdriver02 · June 2003

What interior color did you get? At the NYIAS they had a 3.0 in Crystal Blue with the beige leather interior. That was nice...

onie1 · June 2003

Leather Ebony. I saw a white 3.0 with blue interior. It's a beauty. But it was around $38k which i think is too much for an A4.

need4speed1 · June 2003

I'm thinking of purchasing a 2004 A4 Quattro Tiptronic w/ Sport and Premium pkgs. My understanding is that it would have to be ordered according to my specs. How does this work with trade-ins? Is the price negotiated up front, or when the car finally comes in 2-3 months later? Do they simply require a deposit up front and when it comes in, you work out the trade-in? I don't want to let the dealer know that I plan on trading my Acura right now.

speedracer3 · June 2003

Why don't you just get a 2003?. You'll probably save a lot more money since the dealers have to unload them. Anyway, most A4s that I've seen at the dealers have the premium and sport package on them anyway. You shouldn't need to order anything.

need4speed1 · June 2003

Yes, it would seem obvious to purchase a 2003 model wouldn't it? If I find a 2003 optioned they way I want, I have no problem. I forgot to mention that I'm also interesed in heated seats and the premium leather--neither of which I have been able to find on. Furthermore, I am also looking for Dolphin Gray/Ebony. I figure if I'm spending over $35k on a car, might as well get it configured the way I want! Besides, the 2004 models will eventually have body color painted lower trim as well.

speedracer3 · June 2003

Well, then order away. I would call your Audi dealer and ask how the ordering process works. Sorry I can't help you there, I know that the lead time is usually around 3 months. I was ready to wait for the 2004s but I was lucky to find a 2003 optioned exactly the way I wanted.

Good luck....and enjoy your Audi.

markcincinnati · June 2003

. . .about ordering a car EXACTLY the way you want it. I know instant gratification is nice, but once you've ordered one you'll probably be hooked on doing it. This is especially true if you lease.

You can plan your new car about a year after you lease the first one -- and you can read up on the evolutionary changes that Audi makes every year. So you can lease a brand new 2004 Audi (which if you get it at the beginning of the new model year will probably have a LOWER monthly payment than last year's model due to the residual.) This 04 Audi will be custom ordered exactly as you want it, you'll know when it is coming in (+/- a week or so) and the anticipation is exquisite.

Then sometime when you are in the dealer and the 05's are available, you can take a test drive to see how the breed is advancing. Then when the 06's are out you can place your order for an '07 and refine the order as the option list is made known.

Insofar as the process.

#1 configure your car with or without the dealer (I'd rather do it with the dealer's rep)

#2 depending on the dealer, either no deposit or at most $500 fully refundable deposit (this applies to cars that are "normal" -- if you ordered metallic purple, which is an available special order color, you probably would not be able to have the deposit refundable.)

#3 when the car comes in, and only at that time, make your "deal" with respect to financing and trade in -- the term of the lease and the money factor change reqularly as various programs or "pushes" become available.

For example there WAS, last month a big push on A4 cabriolets -- 3.0 only. The money factor on the 3.0 model was way less than the 1.8T model. If you had ordered a car and the push comes on it, you win.

Conversely, you may miss an opportunity for a push, if your timing is off.

When I ordered my A8 (which took more than 6 months to come in) there was a push available for the money factor -- I was able to lock in the push at the time I ordered the car.

Sometimes you win and sometimes you don't.

It does not matter what or when you tell them about the trade in. It only matters when you actually trade the car in since the value of the trade is determined NOW not some prior time.

When you order the new car, they probably are not at all concerned with your trade-in since the trade in will not happen for at least 3 - 5 months from the date you ordered the new Audi.

My wife and I order all our Audis -- we love to do it that way!

speedracer3 · June 2003

with Mark's recommendation about ordering is that if you don't negotiate the car price until it arrives, the dealer has the upper hand. The dealer knows that the car you ordered is the one you want and he will squeeze you to get the most money out of you. If you wait till your car comes in and the dealer decides to play hardball and not give the price you want, you essentially waited 3-5 months for nothing.

Just keep it in mind

markcincinnati · June 2003

The experience that I have had with respect to ordering is that you get what you want and that there is a discount that tracks well with the discounts that are customarily offered at that dealer at that cycle.

I have talked with my friends who have purchased off the lot and ordered, the discounts of course are not identical -- because the cars aren't. But, the discounts are comparable.

I have never had the feeling that I was being held hostage because I had ordered. Quite the contrary, I was made to feel as if I had joined a special club of Audi owners.

Now, full disclosure: I have only actually bought all our two dozen Audis from the exact same dealership since 1978 (our first was an Audi 5000 followed quickly by a Fox GTI). And, the dealer I buy from also sells Porsches and the same salespeople sell both. Many more Porsches seem to be special ordered with long lead times (our first TT lead time was over 1 year from the date we made a $200 deposit until we drove it off the lot). The second TT -- about 6 or 7 months after the first one took about 6 months to come in after we ordered it. The point is that the salesreps are used to selling ordered cars and when you are picking up the car you ordered, there is less selling than there is educating going on -- or at least it "feels" that way.

I do not disagree with the spirit of what John is saying -- it is just that my experiences ordering cars has been overwhelmingly positive!

speedracer3 · June 2003

You are lucky that you have a dealer that you know and who knows you. Personally, our A4 was our first Audi so I didn't know which dealer I could trust and I felt awkward ordering and finding myself in a dependent situation. Luckily things turned out great for me since I found exactly the my favorite color (ming blue) and the car with the options I wanted on the lot. BTW.. my dealer sells Audi, Lotus and Lamborghini.

widow1 · June 2003

I have a 2002 A4 Avant 1.8T. Have been trying to sell it on Ebay using Edmunds private party pricing rather than that of KBB. Cannot drum up any buying interest. Can anyone enlighten me as to why the market is so bad for the Avant ? Is it anything more than Audi special financing in effect ? Any wisdom out there on this one ?

ouimet · June 2003

HAS ANYONE EXPERIENCED SERVICE STATIONS NOT BEING ABLE TO PUMP GAS INTO AN A4 FROM TIME TO TIME ?
AUDI DEALER SAYS ITS NOT THE CAR THAT IS AT FAULT.

speedracer3 · June 2003

widow1,

Avants are not common cars, not everybody wants one, the dealers carry very few of them. It is understandable that you are having a hard time selling it.

ouimet,

Never had a problem fueling an A4, I dunno how you mean.

lauk0dg · June 2003

I have no problems fueling my B5 (96-01) A4.....is yours the B5 or B6 (02-) A4?

I think I've heard comments like that on AudiWorld.com. Go there and find the right forum (B5 or B6) and post the question there as well.

Billy

need4speed1 · June 2003

Sounds like great advice!

We have 5 Acura's (CL,TL,RL,MDX,RSX) in our household and I would love to do the same with Audi some day!

So as far as ordering is concerned, the deposit is indeed refundable--correct? If so, then why wouldn't I still have the upper hand in negotitiations even after the car comes in? I would simply ask for my deposit back and walk away if I didn't get the deal that I was looking for. I have no problem waiting for the right car at the right price!

markcincinnati · June 2003

dtwleungnyc · June 2003

You order something really bizarre, like hot pink for color, cloth interior, 5 speed, no sunroof, base package only. In that case, the dealer might ask for a non-refunable deposit, just to see how serious you are.

markcincinnati · June 2003

Only I used the color Purple metallic which actually is available special order.

If you order an A4 with every possible option on it, though, and choose a regulation color scheme, MOST dealers will gladly (well they'll say so) refund your deposit.

My dealer held my check and didn't even deposit it until the car came in, last time. And for my current car, I didn't even have to put down a deposit.

But I buy all my cars from him and only once did I not take a car that I had ordered.

Even then, I still bought another car from him, just in a different color.

need4speed1 · June 2003

Does anyone have a definite clue about the options/features of the 2004 Audi A4 3.0?

I've heard on AudiWorld.com that the 2004 models will be available with painted lower trim and an "ultra sport" package for <$3k with 18" wheels, aero kit, sport seats, and aluminum trim. Is this true, or just a bunch of hot air?

If so, I would definitely wait for the 2004's! When do they arrive at the dealership anyway?

markcincinnati -- sounds like you got Audi connections, can you find out?

speedracer3 · June 2003

Sedan front trak 5spd 1.8t 8E2524
Sedan front trak Multitronic 8E25H
Colors

Brilliant black
Light silver
Arctic white
Canvas beige
Cambridge green
Dolphin grey
Ocean blue
Moro blue
Brilliant red
Crystal blue
Crimson red

Interiors

Ebony
Grey
Beige
Platinum

Standard interior trim is color matched fiberglass

Cloth N3A
Leather seating surfaces available only with PPX

PPX Premium package - sunroof, homelink, leather seating, 12 way power seats ( includes lumbar ), driver information display ( cannot be ordered with N3A ).

PPS Sport package with performance tires - sport suspension, 17 inch 5 spoke wheels and 235/45/17 tires, aluminum interior trim ( cannot be ordered w/ PSW or PRV )

PSW Sport package with all season tires - as above but with all season tires

PAW Cold weather package - heated front seats and ski sack

XLP Lighting package - Xenon headlights, auto dimming interior mirror with compass, and light sensor package

PBS 215 watt Bose stereo system - includes indash 6 changer

4X4 Rear side airbags

PRV 17 inch wheels with all season tires

9ZS Onstar with 1 year subscription and pre-wiring for Motorola digital phone

1QE Northeast emissions requirements

OLM California emissions requirements

Port installed options are:
AWL Security wheel locks
APK Phone cradle and brackets for 9ZS
ASR Sirius radio ( requires PBS )
AXM XM radio ( requires PBS )

_________________________________

Sedan QTR 6spd 8E2529
Sedan QTR Tip 8E252Z

Colors and interiors as above

Additional options are:
RSR Infotainment system - Sirius with Bose 215 watt system
RXM Infotainment system - As above but with XM radio

________________________________

Avant 1.8t 6spd 8E5529
Avant 1.8t Tip 8E552Z

Options and colors as per Sedan QTR above except exchange Dolphon for Atlas.

_______________________________

Sedan 3.0 front trak Multitronic 8E25FH

Options and colors as per 1.8t front trak except add memory seat and mirrors for PPX option:
PNK Audi Navigation system

______________________________

Sedan 3.0 QTR 6spd 8E25F9
Sedan 3.0 QTR Tip 8E25FZ

Options and colors as per 1.8t QTR but with memory seat and mirrors for PPX option, PNK navigation option, PLD premium leather option, and interior choices of Ebony, Blue, Beige, and Platinum.

__________________________________

Avant 3.0 6spd 8E55F9
Avant 3.0 Tip 8E55FZ

As above but with optional manual side rear window shades 3Y4

_________________________________

lauk0dg · June 2003

The aero package you are talking about is available since 2003 model year. Check out this pic posted on the Audi Chicagoland Car Club Chapter during our Spring Picnic at Continental audi in Chicago:

http://www.audichicago.org/main/Events/2002/Picnic/PC_02_Pics/SP_- 02.htm

(Check out the 2nd to the 4th pics)

You mentioned it'll be 18" rims but I'm pretty sure the ones in the pics are 17" sport rims.

Billy

need4speed1 · June 2003

speedracer3: Are options for U.S.-bound A4's? Is your information directly from Audi? If it is, sounds like all they are adding XM and Sirius (whoopee!). I can't believe that Audi took away the REAR heated seats (avail in 2002) from the Cold Weather Pkg in 2003...looks like they're not bringing it back either.

lauk0dg: I am aware of an aero kit (made by Votex) already available through Audi. I was referring to an "ultra sport" package that included the kit among other options.

markcincinnati · June 2003

is only on the Avant?

Parktronic is a great "feature." I thought at first it was a throwaway -- but since it came with Sat Nav on my A6, I have come to appreciate it.

And no heated REAR seats either?

What is this, the year of decontenting?

need4speed1 · June 2003

Yes, I think 2003 was the Year of Decontenting for Audi!

Among other things, I think they took away the standard "aluminum" trim in the 1.8T and put some gloss colored fiberglass/plastic trim instead.

Why does Audi change things from cars year-to-year so much? I think Audi must be the only manufacturer on the planet that actually takes away features instead of ADDING them to new models! I think they even change things up mid-year! From what I have heard, only *some* 2004 models will have painted lower trim...it all depends on when the car is ordered/built. What a bunch of crock!

speedracer3 · June 2003

When I drove a 2002 A4 I thought the steering wheels shifter buttons were a great feature. When I finally leased the my 2003 the steering wheel shifter buttons were gone. I still cannot understand why Audi would do away with such a great feature. Go figure!

markcincinnati · June 2003

Assume for a moment that I/we understood decontenting from a financial perspective.

If in year one heated seats mean front and rear and then in a subsequent year heated seats mean front only and the price is slightly lower -- well I sort of understand. But what I don't understand is that once the feature/option is removed, it is unavailable even for an extra fee.

I would pay extra for heated rear seats, even if they were separately priced and required one to purchase heated front-only seats.

Now, I do have my limits -- but not only are they decontenting which is a "nice" way of saying raising the price, they are reducing my number of choices.

If, in year one heated fron and rear seats were $400, and in year two heated front seats were $250 and heated rear seats were a separate option for $200, I would probably opt to pay for them (a 12% price increase approximately.) The issue I have is that we are not given the chance to be charged more in year two than we were in year one.

Now while I might be willing to pay 12% more for some things, I might not be willing to pay 24% -- but some people would be.

What I have learned owning a business for 19 years is when the customer wants to give you money for something -- take it.

I want the availability of a 1.8T with 225HP, a 6spd manual and at least a power driver's seat and the option of leather and heated front an rear seats and a heated steering wheel.

These things are all for sale on Audis of all ilks -- but here in the US, someone decides that in 2004 we no longer need heated rear seats and we are not even offered the chance to pay extra if we really do want them.

Color me confused.

Audi -- take my money, please (with homage to Henny Youngman).

speedracer3 · June 2003

I would have been very happy with leatherette seats. I can understand that Audi wanted to make more money and equip all their cars with leather, but if BMW still sells leatherette why can't Audi??.

need4speed1 · June 2003

Maybe they did away with some features simply to make up for the coil pack fiasco! Makes sense doesn't it?!

tiredofmanual · June 2003

Audi is not the only manufacturer that decontents cars. It seems to happen with a lot of them.

andys120 · June 2003

The dollar is sinking like a stone relative to the Euro forcing import makers to either decontent or rise pricesconsiderably.

Tax cuts aren't free, no matter what they tell you.

markcincinnati · June 2003

The decontenting is bothersome, especially when the Fed chairman claims there may be deflation or at least disinflation -- and it is no better in Germany.

But, be that as it may, my complaint is less that there is a decontenting than it is that apparently the options (choices) are being taken away from us.

The number of examples are endless, but it is counter intuitive to me that Audi won't take my money for something that they offer everywhere else.

We don't, apparently, have the choice in an A4 in 2004 of Parktronic. Now, granted this is not going to change my life -- but I have now had parktronic on two cars -- the first one because it was bundled with sat nav and the second time by choice. I keep eying the A4 line (and the upcoming S4) and so does my wife.

Now that I have lived with Parktronic, I believe it to be "worth" the price of admission. OK so maybe they would have to up the price $25 per copy -- I'd pay it. But I am no longer given the choice.

Another example -- heated steering wheel. I have had it on two cars and was looking forward to it on my 03 allroad (it was on the 02) -- pow, zap, it is gone -- and they took away memory passenger seats too. Now I would not pay extra for a memory passenger seat, but I would like to have a power passenger seat and would probably take it if it came with memory.

Heated front and rear seats -- OK price them separately if this helps YOUR bottom line, Audi, but at least give me the option of giving you my money.

This concept seems simple. Take the customer's money for options that are being offered and are just an entry on a computer check sheet somewhere -- as the car is going down the assembly line in Ingolstadt, what difference does it make if they put in heated rear seats for Pete's sake (assuming the person ordering this option was aware of the cost.)

Check out the Mercedes web site or the German or UK Audi web site -- Options R Us.

need4speed1 · June 2003

I totally agree!

"Audi" comes from Latin--to listen. Well LISTEN to us AUDI! We want choices! They should be glad to just take my money and make me smile!

It doesn't make sense that here in the US, where we have a lower cost of living and a higher disposable income than in Europe, we do not have as many choices as other countries do.

speedracer3 · June 2003

Instead of "Never follow"

"Never listens!"

lurker01 · June 2003

I have a question regarding the so-called 'random' setting on the 6 disc in dash CD player in my Audi A4. When I set it to Random Changer it does not behave like most other CD players with a simular feature. I would expect it to change CDs often as is shuffles the tracks. Instead, what it does is play random tracks from the current CD for a long time, then eventually change to another CD and repeat the process. Only once it has played most tracks on each CD does it start to change CDs often, looking for an unplayed track.
My guess is the algorithm they are using picks randomly from the current CD's tracks plus one other selection that mean 'change CDs' So, only after many tracks are played and removed from the list, does it statistically hit the 'change CD' selection and move to another CD where it repeats the process.

Is this what your units do as well? Is there an update to the code on the unit to change this? Does everyone agree this is a dumb way to make a CD changer operate?

andys120 · June 2003

and kind of disappointing.

tiredofmanual · June 2003

Well, it takes a long time to switch discs sometimes, so it might get frustrating to wait 15 seconds between every song while it switches to a new disc.

Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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