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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I agree with you, but I think you need to consider how long you will own the car. I knew I'd have my Elantras in my family for 10-11 years at least, so depreciation was no factor (the warranty was though!). But if you think there's a good chance you'll trade the car in 2-3 years, the Civic can be a better buy even with the lower up-front costs of the Elantra.

    But in between buying the car and reselling it, there's the owning and driving. I prefer the way the Elantra sits and drives to the Civic, and there's no Civic 5-door in any case.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    Hyundais, especially the new-school Hyundais, DO NOT HAVE SUBSTANTIALLY WORSE RESALE THAN HONDAS. Plain and simple. Consider that the Hyundai Tucson has 3% worse resale value than the Honda CR-V and that the Hyundai Santa Fe actually has BETTER resale value (source: ALG; which shows this information on HONDA'S website).

    The real reason why you would go for the Elantra besides the price is the warranty... If you ask me, Civics don't seem to live up to their reputation of being trouble free any more; the result of cost-cutting and poor automatic transmissions. The Elantra's engine seems substantially more refined than the Civic Value Package Coupe I have to drive's. Why should we have to hear what sounds like cogs moving around in the transmission of a MANUAL? Anyway, the Civic seems less fail-safe than an Elantra in my opinion, and even if it wasn't it is going to be covered.

    I put 25-30,000 miles on a car annually and I could not get a Honda as my next new car because 36,000 mile warranty coverage is unacceptable. At least with the Hyundai I will have 5 years of roadside assistance (which I don't think Honda even has), and around four years of coverage.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I agree there are some Hyundais that have a good real-world resale record, the Santa Fe being one (Tucson is really too new to have real-world resale stats; the ALG numbers are for calculations of residual values on leases and are not based on real-world resale data, at least not on the Tucson). But here we are talking about Civics and Elantras, and it is a fact that Civics hold their value better than Elantras, especially in the first few years of ownership. You can make up for that at least in part by getting a great deal on an Elantra (and they start at under $10k).
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    Actually, if you do the math, LIKE I HAVE, you'd see that pretty much if you spend anywhere $1200 less than MRSP on your Elantra it will have better resale value than your Civic. And nobody pays MRSP on an Elantra, nowhere near it.

    Of course the Tucson's ALG numbers are based on calculations on leases, it hasn't been out long enough for it to be based on anything else, like you said.

    You cannot argue with math, but I am starting to believe that some people actually think that it is possible. Numbers do not lie. Do the math, and show us how a Civic has better resale than an Elantra, Backy, and then and only then will I agree with you that it is a "fact" that Civic's have better resale value. You constantly remind this board of the fact that there is a varitable buffet table of discounts on Elantras that render them considerably cheaper than their MRSP would suggest, and be sure to factor this in. I'd like to see how it stacks up.
  • jkobbjkobb Member Posts: 51
    What exactly is a Vtec engine thats in the Honda Civic. I hear that if you geta Civic get the one with a Vtec engine.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I've done the math, too (hey, I own two Elantras!). And I never stated that it is a general "fact" that Civics have better resale than Elantras. There are certain situations where that is true, however.

    As I stated above (and many other times on these discussions), you can make up for the steeper depreciation rate on Elantras compared to Civics by getting a good deal up front. Say you get an Elantra GLS for $10k and you could get a Civic LX 4-door for $14k. Suppose after the first 3 years, the Elantra is worth $5000-5500 trade-in (pretty close to my real-world experience with my '01 GLS). The Civic would need to be worth $9000-9500 to match that. Could you get that much in trade for a 3 year old Civic? Maybe, based on what I've seen in my area. But maybe not. If you don't get that great deal on the Elantra up front though, then it's a different story. After ten years, the Elantra might only be worth $1000 or so if it's in good shape, which means the Civic would need to be worth at least $5000. No way. So over time, the depreciation is definitely not a factor in favor of the Civic.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    Vtec is what Honda calls variable valve timing. It's like Variable Timing with Electronic Control. Only EX, HX, Si, and Hybrids have VTEC, but within that there is much difference. EX, HX, and Hybrid have E-VTEC which doesn't make your engine any faster, it is just to make it more economical. The Si has I-VTEC like in the RSX and better Honda models, which is for performance.

    The E-VTEC models are not faster than the regular engines. You have to get a Civic EX which will be slower than a regular Civ because it weighs hundreds of pounds more with the sunroof and power everything, blah blah, and the HX and Hybrid are lean-burn engines that can't amount to any performance whatsoever. If you get a Civic, get VTEC for better mileage, not performance, because that is what it does. Though mind you, the Elantra has VVT (which is the same thing) too.

    Moral of the story: when you see Civic EXs with giant VTEC badges everywhere and all the regular street racer attire, know that they have E-VTEC and that their car is actually (probably, if it is all show and no go which most of them are) a pretty slow machine, with variable valve timing to get better mileage.
  • jkobbjkobb Member Posts: 51
    Thanks for the answer mononeo , I just bought a 05 Elantra GLS , and I knew it had Variable valve timing . So in other words the Elantra has the same valve system as the Civic . Honda is just advertising it more heavily as a selling point.Anyway I think Civic, Mazda 3, Elantra , and Corolla , are all very good and reliable cars. I don`t think there is a bad choice of any of these . For me the Elantra was a good choice, I don`t regret it and I really like this car.Comfort , ride , power, price, and warranty are all the reasons that I made this my pick of a batch of very good economy cars. :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I think it's inaccurate to say the Elantra and Civic VTEC have the same valve system. I read an article about the Elantra's system awhile ago and recall it works differently than how Honda's does, but... who cares? The system on the Elantra works just fine and gave the Beta engine lower emissions and higher power.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    Actually, VTEC and VVT actually do pretty much the same thing. The induction and exhaust from the combustion chamber is divided into 2 valves for both the former, and the latter, for four in all. What variable valve timing does is change the rates at which the engine essentially shoots a fuel mixture into the chamber and then at what points it removes it. The only difference in the Honda system is that Honda has I-VTEC, which has an infinite amount of variable rates at which it can do this, and Hyundai does not offer this. Civics, however, unless you are getting an Si, do not have I-VTEC, so they really do have the same technology. Obviously they are different systems, but in regards to the valve TIMING system, they are the same.

    Also, one thing about Hondas and Hyundais pretty much no one knows is that most Hyundais have variable intake timing. It's the same kind of idea as the valve timing, but for the intake, obviously. At different speeds, and this technology is standard-fair on the the Elantra (and not the Civic), various induction components will rearrange themselves within the airdam to increase how well the car respirates depending on speed. Interestingly, this system is available on Honda models, but only higher-end models. Honda seems to think this is an important technology, as it is important enough, if memory serves me correctly, for them to mention it on Acura's website under engine statistics.

    ...and Backy, I don't think he meant that it was the EXACT same mechanism or whatever, but it is the same technology, no holds barred.

    ALSO, it is important to point out that Honda only puts variable intake timing on higher-end models, and VTEC on higher-end Civics, whereas Hyundai puts both standard on Elantras.
  • chidorochidoro Member Posts: 125
    That's the case right now Mono but all civics will be gaining the i-vtec on 2006 models come this fall. This is also the the case on all i4 accords so it's not exclusive to only high end Honda offerings.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    Seeing as how we are not talking about 2006 Civics, and the I4 model Accords don't have it yet, then I actually am right. Correct me over this when it happens, maybe this fall.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Since the '06 Civic has already been unveiled at auto shows and is due this fall, and the next-gen Elantra is also around the corner, why can't we talk about those too--rather than just discussing the current nearly-five-year-old models? I think it will be very interesting to see how these all-new designs compare, and if Hyundai keeps making progress against the best small cars from Japan--or even surpasses them???
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    I was just pointing out the fact that you cannot compare a 2005 Elantra to a 2006 Civic.

    I think Hyundai is purposefully (and this is only seeming conjecture) waiting for the Civic to come out first so it can know what to beat. At least in small things...obviously you cannot design a car in the 4-6 months that the Civic will be out before the Elantra. Engine choices and things like that, however, Hyundai can easily change...fast.
  • chidorochidoro Member Posts: 125
    Actually, the I4 accords already do have i-vtec. The V-6's are regular vtec but the I4's have it oddly enough. And if you're comparison shopping for a car, there is no reason to not consider a rapidly approaching model overhaul.

    Hyundai still has one important thing to change that it's processes can't overhaul in 4-6 months, that's the publics perception of reliability. Until people regularly see 10, 15, even 20 year old elentras driving around with regularlity like you do with civics, it's going to take some time. Maybe in 2015 when I see a bunch of 200k 2005 elentras on the garden state parkway on my way to work I'll personally consider them
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    That's an interesting theory. IMO the Elantra will wait for early '06 because Hyundai already has its hands full launching four other new vechicles (Tucson, Sonata, Accent, Azera) within a 12 month timespan. Another major launch in the same year would be tough. Only so many marketing dollars (or won) to go around.
  • njdevilnjdevil Member Posts: 19
    we now have driven both our 2005 civic and our 2005 hyundai 10,000 miles and have decided that the hyundai is alot better overall than the civic, especially on long distance trips. the only thing we found better on the civic is the way it shifts, alot more smoother.
  • chidorochidoro Member Posts: 125
    I would be interested in the reasons you prefer your Elantra over the Civic. As an experienced driver of both vehicles, elaborating on the reasons you prefer it could prove to be very valuable info. If you have the 5 door, obviously useful space would be one thing. However, I think people would like to know how you feel about the engine, the handling characteristics, the seats, the overall ergonomics, interior noise, etc between the two.
  • njdevilnjdevil Member Posts: 19
    the elantra we own is a 4 door gt with a sunroof. we bought it on 11/2/04 and it now has almost 14,000 miles. the civic ex special edition was bought l2/31/04 and it has almost 12,000 miles. we do mostly highway driving. the elantra has a more quieter, comfortable ride. the seats on the civic are lousy on long distance trips. the elantra has a trip computer which comes in handy. the controls for the side mirrors and sunroof are in a better place on the hyundai. If you should forget to turn off your headlights in the hyundai they will go off when you turn the car off. in the civic you end up with a dead battery. when you forget to close one of your doors or trunk in the hyundai it lets you know, not in the civic. the hyundai has more pep, disc brakes on both front and back. a bigger gas tank. roadside assistance and a better center console. these are just to name a few things.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It is incredible to me that an $19,000 car like the Civic EX SE doesn't alert you to open doors or trunk--or have some of the other features of cars like the Elantra, or even the Accent. Maybe that's one reason why Civic sales are declining while the equally-old Elantra is still selling well.

    The roadside assistance is actually a pretty nice benefit. I had to use it for the first time on my '04 GT the other day when DW locked the keys in the car. It took only about 10 minutes for the tow truck to arrive and the guy to open the car. That benefit has saved me almost $400 in AAA membership fees in the five years I've owned Elantras.
  • chidorochidoro Member Posts: 125
    While interior ergonomics is a slightly personal thing as I really like the civic seats (drove to and from florida from NJ in my wife's 2001) and the controls are second nature to me since I've been a honda driver of some kind since 1995, those are interesting points. I know my wife would have benefitted w/ the auto-off light feature. How does the car shift (if you have automatic)? How is your gas mileage, are they comparable? My wife's gas tank (and gas mileage for that matter) is bigger than my '98 civic so anything is an improvement ;). We use AAA so roadside assistance isn't a real selling factor but the trip computer is a neat bonus in this price range.
    Thanks for the info.
  • njdevilnjdevil Member Posts: 19
    both of the cars have manual transmission. we get about 36 mpg on the civic and 34 mpg on the hyundai. we are used to the controls on the civic but still prefer the hyundai's. you have to pay extra for AAA, we used to have it but no longer needed it when we bought the hyundai. we do not have it on the civic. the seats on the civic are ok on short trips. we go to north carolina from PA every other month or so for a long weekend. we now use the hyundai for that trip.
  • amandauncbeachamandauncbeach Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2003 civic and recently the air conditioner stopped working at 57,000 miles. Naturally, I took it to the dealer to have it looked at. They told me that the air conditioner has shorted out. But because the car had been in an accident they did not have to fix it under the extended warranty that we bought with the car. I know for a fact that the accident has nothing to do with the A/C problems, the accident was two years ago and very minor. I was wondering if anyone else has had problems with their A/C. What's the point in spending over $1,000 on an extended bumper to bumper warranty if you will never be able to use it? :mad:
  • sheroosheroo Member Posts: 9
    Hi guys, I am new to the forum and have found it to be very informative.
    I have been thinking about getting either a Civic or Elantra and am tempted towards the elantra because of the 2.0 ltr engine. I like to go camping a lot and one of my friends who has a civic recently busted his transmission while driving in the redwoods area. He has taken his car to a lot of the parks but has always complained about lack of power. The second reason is that I hate taking my bike on a carrier so I wanted something where I could take my bike inside. Is the elantra Hatchback space sufficient for a 26' bike?

    Has anyone taken on trails in national/state parks. How has the elantra behaved there?
  • lovetosavegaslovetosavegas Member Posts: 73
    I didn't go to the parks but am sure that 26' weel bike will fit fine in a hatchback with the back seats folded. If you want automatic, Elantra is probably a better choice. I really like the stick on Civic though... For going camping hatchback Elantra definetely will have more space then Civic. Get the GT - you will not be disappointed ;)
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    Has anyone taken on trails in national/state parks. How has the elantra behaved there?

    Get a mini SUV for that.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yeah, we already tried that path (probably on another discussion--cross-posted). No go.
  • therealpotustherealpotus Member Posts: 42
    Can someone please solve this mystery for me? When will the 'completely new' Elantra be released? Fall 2005 or Spring 2006? It seems I've seen conflicting stories as to whether the 'all new Elantra' will be the 2006 (fall 2005) or 2007 (spring 2006).

    I think I've even seen a forum on Edmunds.com that's a 2007 Elantra site...

    Can anyone help me out???
  • iowaelantraiowaelantra Member Posts: 58
    Hondas are better than Hyundais! Hyundais are better than Hondas! Japanese is better than Korean! Which brand is more reliable? I have a new slant for all you people to look at. Since I haven't read all 63 pages of posts maybe this was discussed somewhere in between the beginning and the end posts. You have talked about various problems. I have no facts or figures to back me up but you have talked about this problem and that problem regardless of the brand of car. In all seriousness, what percentage of these problems would be considered design/engineering problems and what percentage could actually be chalked up to assembly problems??????????? If you would happen to come back and say that most could really be chalked up to assembly problems, I then have to ask this question. How many of these companies, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, Toyota, etc. now have USA assembly plants? What percentage of cars being sold actually come from Japan or Korea and what percentage of cars are actually being built here in the ole USA???? I don't know that answer, maybe someone out there does so don't be too hard on me for suggesting this new slant on things. Carrying my logic to its end, if most of the problems everyone sites is actually assembly problems and if a high percentage of these "foreign" cars are now being built in the U.S. then does it not follow that the assembly problems are not Korean or Japanese problems but American problems????? If Americans are doing a sloppy job of assembling a Japanese or Korean designed product, do we whip the Japanese or Koreans for the problem? Should we not be placing the blame on sloppy American build for these problems? Now, you guys who are more familiar with the cars, their particular problems, and where they are built can discuss this line of thought. I'm curious to see if I've hit on something or if I'm way out in left field.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    From what I have seen through my personal experience with Hondas and Hyundais and by observing these forums for the last five years, I'd say that almost all major problems regardless of brand are due to either 1) design issues, or 2) problems with specific parts. The assembly problems seem to be pretty minor ones, e.g. a paint flaw or loose interior trim or mis-aligned door or trunk lid. And from my experience, both brands have those. However, I've seen more visible assembly problems on U.S.-built Hondas (Accords and Civics) than I have on U.S.-built Hyundais. But that's kind of a moot point here, since Elantras aren't built in the U.S. nor will they be in the near future.

    For example, if you look at the recalls for the Civic and Elantra over the last five years you'll see lots of design issues and parts issues--gas line design, bad airbag sensors, bad radios, etc. And where do the parts come from? Almost all the parts for Hyundais, even those built in the U.S., come from overseas. I don't know the percentage for Honda but I would guess the majority of Honda parts come from overseas too.
  • iowaelantraiowaelantra Member Posts: 58
    Thanks backy, I really had no idea how many if any of these vehicles people keep going back and forth over are built in the U.S. or not. It was just a thought that I had because I knew that some manufacturers build here in the states and therefore I thought that maybe some of these problems were assembly problems that maybe were brought on by shoddy work here in the states.
  • iowaelantraiowaelantra Member Posts: 58
    Backy, I have a running argument with a friend of mine who lives over along the muddy Missouri River. He is sort of berating me for thinking about a "new" car. He has been thinking of replacing his Dodge Spirit and kind of liked the Dodge Stratus. I did some computer checking for him and the Stratus is not cheap. Stratuses with 30k 40k even 50k miles on them are going for anywhere from about $12K to more than $17K. Then, on top, you don't know how well the car has been cared for or what problems might be lurking that you don't find about until after you take the car home. I try to tell him my thinking is that why buy a used car for that kind of money when I can have a brand new car with all the bells and whistles for the same amount of money? Especially, when in reality, this car purchase would most likely be my last. I'm 56 years old and my health isn't all that great. I strongly suspect that this would be my last car purchase. Why not make it a good one (new car) rather than a bad one (used car)?
  • zoomzoomitiszoomzoomitis Member Posts: 45
    Something interesting along a similar line of "thinking". Not sure (haven't studied all the "stuff") about the Honda Civic, but the Korean twins, Spectra & Elantra are both assembled in Korea, 95% content or so. Different assembly plants but both are basically assembled start to finish in ONE location in their respective factories. Same can be said for the Mazda3 being built entirely in Hiroshima (same plant as the ol' Protege' in my garage - bulletproof "quality" BTW and it turns out that the 3 is doing pretty good in that regard as well. Not surprising.). Anyways, where it gets interesting as far as "quality" is concerned is when a manufacturer starts deciding to go, what I call, the world car route. Take for instance the Mazda6. On the surface, pretty sharp car, first appearing on the scene back in '03. Rave reviews yada, yada, yada. Now, two years later CR is hammerin' the thing on "reliability" or lack thereof. The key, I am convinced, is how the thing is put together. Not so much the design IMO. The four banger in that car comes Mexico. Transmission I think Japanese and the assembly, USA. IOW, all over the place. The six cylinder, don't hold me to this as I'm going from memory, is an American assembled thing with the same Japanese transmission again, put together in The States. The Zoomer 6 is clearly not as reliable as the Zoomer 3 as the real world tests are indicating to date.Where a car is stapled, glued, welded, rivoted, rubber-banded etc. etc. together matters...all IMHO of course.

    PS. I'm getting closer and closer to my launch date (hittin' the dealer lots and doing some serious hagglin'.) End of quarter comin' up. End of model year getting real close. Come on '06 Elantra's. Need ya to start showing up on those lots anytime. :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, let's try putting this back in the context of this discussion with a used Civic vs. a new Elantra. You can get a new Elantra GLS with full warranty for about the same price as a 2-3 year old Civic LX (or 3-4 year old EX) in my town. The Civic will probably be out of warranty, unless there's an extended warranty. I think a lot has to do with how you like driving the used car vs. the new car. For me, that would be an easy decision because I prefer driving the Elantra to the '01-'05 Civic even when the Civic is new. I also like the peace of mind of knowing that the car is warranted for five years (and ten for powertrain). But suppose the used car is much more car than the new car, e.g. you can get a slightly-used 2004 Sonata or Optima or about the same price as a new Elantra. Some people might prefer the larger car. If I were to go the used route, it certainly would not be with a Stratus, which is IMO (and the opinion of many professional reviewers) one of the worst mid-sized cars on the market.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    The Edmunds TMV price for a 2001 Stratus is $6280 for a personal sale and $7326 for a dealer sale. I think that's a mediocre car that depreciates rather quickly, and I can't believe that cars with that mileage would bring $12-$17K in any market.
  • iowaelantraiowaelantra Member Posts: 58
    that is what the darn things are going for in this area. I don't really want to get off the subject of Civic vs Elantra, it was supposed to be an example of a real world situation I had run in to. I used to know a guy who had a civic and often times thought it was kind of a neat little car. However, he was a single guy and kind of a pig and the interior upkeep of his Civic bore that out.....think rolling garbage dump. :( Anyway, the civic always seemed a little small to me while the Elantra seems like a larger car. I don't really know what the actual comparison of size is between the two. I haven't really compared the two as the Civic has never been on my list of possibles. The Elantra or maybe a Spectra5 seems more like a size that would be more appropriate for me. Not too big and not too small. Back to my original thought, when thinking of cars that are roughly the same size, it just seems more feasible to me to purchase a new car over a used car IF the asking prices for the used cars are nearly the same as the prices for the new car. I guess maybe I'm like a kid, I'd rather have something new and shiny rather than something another kid has played with for a year or two. :D
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    iowaelantra said, "what percentage of these problems would be considered design/engineering problems and what percentage could actually be chalked up to assembly problems???????????"

    What percentage of problems are due to owner neglect, maintenance, abuse, stupidity or ignorance? I had a Ford Aspire (built by Kia) for nearly 10 years, and it had one major problem in warranty (CV joint replaced) and one out of warranty (a bracket inside the transmission broke along a weld, costing about $400 to fix). Everything else was normal wear and tear. I only replaced the clutch once in almost 120k miles. The car was to large extent, bulletproof. Yet, overall reliability ratings for Aspires were not so good. Why? I would say the owner is a big part of the equation. Most people who buy a car like that are doing so because they want a new car but can't afford it. This was true for me at the time, but I knew enough to maintain it regularly, not abuse it, and fix little things before they turned into big things. I suspect I was not a typical Aspire owner in that respect.

    Bottom line, if you take care of your car, a lot of these problems just don't happen.

    By they way, have you bought your car yet, iowaelantra? I'm lovin' my new Elantra in Electric Red!
  • jojojojojojo Member Posts: 6
    "The roadside assistance is actually a pretty nice benefit. I had to use it for the first time on my '04 GT the other day when DW locked the keys in the car. It took only about 10 minutes for the tow truck to arrive and the guy to open the car."

    hey, backy,
    i had read in previous posts that the elantra has a feature where you cannot lock your keys in the car.. true?

    jo :confuse:
  • jojojojojojo Member Posts: 6
    Hey.. hi everybody and thanks for all the good information. I am posting here cuz I think I will be on subject since I currently own a Honda and am thinking about replacing it with an Elantra. If my Honda doesn’t pass smog in 2006 I will be forced to get a new car.

    I purchased my 1984 Honda Civic Wagon DX in Feb 1984 for $8k. I am one of those “bad” car owners. At some point in the past 21 years I stopped maintaining it. I take it thru the car wash maybe once a year. I do make sure it has oil. Sometimes the oil level is pretty low; almost to empty on the dip stick. Due to its age EPA has offered me some money to get it off the road. The engine dies at every stop. I have learned how to pop the clutch so that I don’t have turn on the engine every time. In 2001 I threw another $3k at it to fix a broken cv boot (?) and other suspension related problems. Ever since that repair my Honda has had the most amazing acceleration power. It runs like a champ!

    I think the Honda Civic Wagon is the best car ever designed and that makes it very hard to give up. I thought that when Honda brought out the CRV and the Element that they would be a good replacement for my little car but they proved to be much larger and way more expensive. I am soo angry at Honda for wanting to be a truck company instead of a little (small / subcompact) car company. They showed up on the SUV market so much later that everyone else. It seems that they can’t curb that momentum and go back to making little cheap cars.. which is how they started out.. remember the first Honda car with the little back window and tiny tires?

    I never thought that I would consider anything other than a Honda but they just aren’t offering what I want. There was talk about the Fit/Jazz but I haven’t heard anything more about it. Of all the cars currently on the market, the Elantra Hatchback comes closest to qualifying as replacement vehicle for the Civic Wagon.

    I am very encouraged by the positive experiences some of you are having with your Elantras. I am beginning to feel like a desperate shopper. It feels like the price of the Elantra will soon be more than what I will be willing to pay.. so I have to jump on it now while Hyundai is still offering rebates.

    I will be reading the forum on Elantra problems before I purchase one.

    Just another possible convert to the Elantra 5-Door Hatchback.. I too don’t care about the resale value since I will run it into the ground. I will be happy if it lasts for 10years. As has been mentioned in previous posts, poor resale value does not necessarily mean poor quality. I truly hope this is the case with the Elantra GLS Hatchback. I love its styling and all the standard features.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    That may be true--if the keys are left in the ignition. I haven't tested it, though. My DW left the keys sitting on the passenger seat. And she did that twice in the space of about two weeks. :cry: After the second time, I went right out and bought three extra keys.

    P.S. The Hyundai Roadside assistance was just as quick and courteous the 2nd time, too. Also, when the clutch on my '01 Elantra broke from misuse by my teenage son and he had to get a tow off the freeway access ramp to our house, Hyundai towed the car from there to the dealer and reimbursed me for the tow to my house. (They didn't pay for the clutch replacement, however.)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Try to wait to buy the Elantra if you can. Rebates are at a near-historic low on that car, and I really think they will increase as we go into 2006. The main reason for that is that the '07 Elantra will be all-new, so they may have to clear out the '06s as they did with big rebates on the old Sonatas. No guarantees on rebates, just a hunch based on watching the market and particularly the Elantra very closely over the past six years.

    Also, if you can wait until March or so you might want to at least try a few other cars that might meet your needs: the Honda Fit should be out by then (and may remind you a lot of your Civic Wagon), and also the '07 Accent 3-door hatchback, the Yaris 3-door hatchback, and the Nissan Versa 5-door. The Rio5 and Spectra5 are worth a look, too. Might as well check them all out before you put down your hard-earned money.
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    I agree with just about everything Backy says. As usual. :blush:

    Anyway, I found this out with respect to extra keys and locks and stuff: I had an extra key made up from a blank, with no fob or whatever. I can use it to unlock the door, but if the alarm is set, it goes off and the engine will not start. So it is helpful in a situation like Backy's wife got herself into where the "real" keys are inside the car, but if you lose the keys the spare will not help you out too much. (Maybe hide a spare set of full keys with fob in the car if you're worried about it?)
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    If you liked the old Honda Wagon: The Suzuki Aerio SX. Quite powerful with I think 150-160 hp out of a 2.3l 4-banger, amazing storage space and headroom, similar profile to older Civic wagons. They have a 7-year, 100k powertrain warranty. I looked at it but decided to go with the Elantra instead.
  • chidorochidoro Member Posts: 125
    I'm curious, how many miles do you have racked up on that civic?

    As far as the cars being looked at, the scion xA and xB could probably be added to the list as well.
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    Yep, them too. The xA was too small for my tastes, while the xB was too xButt-Ugly.
  • warnerwarner Member Posts: 196
    I've read most of the posts here and agree with several of them. Basically I think it comes down to how frequently you will replace your car. If you're going to get a new car every 3 or 4 years, there's no question that you should get a Honda Civic due to the retained value. Alternatively, if you are going to run your car into the ground then the Hyundai makes some sense. The real question is just how far into the ground can a Hyundai go before it's buried, versus how far into the ground a Honda will go before it's in a similar condition? I can't answer that because I haven't owned either that long. Here's what I have experienced, though. In 2000, I bought a new Hyundai Elanta Wagon for $11,600 (which I think was well under invoice that year). I put 82,000 miles on it over 4 years before wanting to get a new car. I tried to trade it in on a 2004 Civic, but what I was offered for trade was so low that I opted to sell it myself. (I was offered $1,800 in trade by the dealer). I ended up selling it privately for $3,650 (in other words, it lost $7950 in 4 years of owning it, or more than 68% of it's value.) On the other hand, I just traded my 2004 Honda Civic in on a new 2006 Civic. I bought the 2004 for $15,100 new 18 months ago and put 41,000 miles on it. I got $11,900 when I traded it in last week. So 18 months after buying the car (and let's be honest, that's when MOST of the depreciation of a car takes place...in the first 24 months) I lost $3,200 in 18 months (and 41,000 miles). I'm fairly certain that one could NOT get that type of trade in on an 18 month old Hyundai with 41,000 miles on it, whatever model it may be. I had to do zero maintenance on the Honda other than what was scheduled. I had the Hyundai in for several issues in it's 4 year stay with us....nothing overly expensive (We spent three or four hundred bucks on non-scheduled maintenance), but it is inconvenient to have to bring (or tow in our case) a car in for service. Would I buy another Hyundai? Perhaps, but not if given the choice between that and spending a few grand more and getting a Honda. I know I'm not "stuck" with the car for an extended period with the Honda, and I also know that if I decide to drive the wheels off of it, it should last quite well in that regard. I can see both sides of the equation though....this is simply my opinion after having both makes of cars.

    Warner
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    So your four-year-old Elantra (which was not nearly as good a car as the current Elantra) lost a bit more than twice the dollar amount in depreciation compared to your two-year-old Civic, which had 1/2 the miles of the Elantra. The dollar difference, comparing like miles and years, is a few hundred dollars. Based on that, I'd conclude that if the cars themselves are a wash (in this case they are not because Honda didn't offer a Civic wagon in 2000), then it would be worth it to spend maybe $1500 or so more on the Honda, since you could recoup that much more in four years. It would be interesting to see what a four-year-old Honda with 80,000 miles would fetch. Would it get over $7000? Maybe. I know for a fact that I didn't lose more than $3200 on my '04 Elantra GT in the first 18 months. I bought it for $13,200 + TTL and the last time I checked on its resale value, it was well over $10,000. So a big part of the equation is the initial purchase price. If you can get an Elantra for several thousand less than a Civic--and you can--then it can be a good deal financially even after 3-4 years. But if the price is close, the Civic has the advantage in the short term. It will be interesting to see what happens next year, when the price of the Elantra should go up substantially.
  • warnerwarner Member Posts: 196
    So your four-year-old Elantra (which was not nearly as good a car as the current Elantra) lost a bit more than twice the dollar amount in depreciation compared to your two-year-old Civic, which had 1/2 the miles of the Elantra. The dollar difference, comparing like miles and years, is a few hundred dollars.

    Well, this is faulty logic because cars lose the most value the first two years of ownership. Do you agree?

    I know for a fact that I didn't lose more than $3200 on my '04 Elantra GT in the first 18 months. I bought it for $13,200 + TTL and the last time I checked on its resale value, it was well over $10,000.

    According to Kelly Blue Book, the trade in value today on an '04 Elantra GT with 41,000 miles on it is $7,420 compared to the '04 Civic LX 5-speed with 41,000 miles (and alloy wheels, which mine had and were figured in to the cost of the car at $15,100) whose trade in is listed at $9,730 (or roughly $2,300 difference). As I mentioned in several other posts on here, I actually GOT $11,900 for my '04 Civic on trade. I doubt that the Hyundai would get an equal boost on trade in, but I'd like to hear from anyone who has. And the $11,900 number is real - the price of the new car wasn't boosted to make that $11,900 number - I paid over $1,000 under MSRP for the new civic, in-line with smart shoppers on here who didn't trade anything in. So based on the numbers on www.kbb.com the civic depreciated $5,370 since I bought it (although I only lost $3,200) and the Hyundai would have depreciated $5,780. Only about $400 less based on KBB.com, but the question is what are the real world numbers? Based on my 2000 Hyundai wagon, it should STILL be worth $3,800 in trade in and I could only get $1,800 offered by the dealer (and this was a year and a half ago) and $2,600 offered by carmax. As I stated, I finally sold it privately for $3,650 which is WELL under what the listed private party value is for it today ($5,000) let alone a year and a half ago. So the numbers listed anywhere don't really mean squat. The only thing that matters is what you actually GET for the vehicle. Maybe some people can post their personal experiences when trading in their Hyundais (or even selling them privately) so we can get an accurate picture of what's really happening out there, instead of some crazy "book values"

    Warner
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    There's so many variables in resale value that I don't know that you can say as a rule that cars lose most of their value early on. I think that happens more with higher-priced cars, vs. a low-end car like an Elantra which might have been purchased at a huge discount.

    I do think it is not apples-to-apples to compare depreciation on an Elantra GT automatic with leather, ABS/traction, moonroof, alloys, six-speaker stereo, foglamps etc. to a Civic LX. At the least the comparison should be to a Civic EX automatic. But even with this disparity, the difference in resale is only a few hundred dollars (btw, my Elantra didn't have 41,000 miles on it).

    $13,200 - $7240 (assuming that is correct for an automatic GT hatchback with ABS and moonroof) = $5960
    $15,100 - $9730 = $5370

    Even if this is the true picture, I'd rather pay the extra $600 over the Civic LX and have the benefit of the hatchback versatility, automatic, ABS/traction, and moonroof. (Shoot, I learned on the Civic discussion recently that Honda charges over $500 for foglamps on a Civic--there's most of the difference right there!)
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