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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra

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Comments

  • isell_mitsus1isell_mitsus1 Member Posts: 23
    I have never said that the new Hyundais models were crap, I said that the old Hyundai models were crap and the new ones still aren't as good as Honda.

    Sure they may sell 100,000 Elantras this year but the Civic still sells 3 times that not to mention all of the used Civics that are sold in a year, and with a new model on the way it's sales will increase even more.

    As I said, I may view Hyundai differently in a few years but right now I think the Accord/Civic are 2 of the best, most reliable sedans in their respective categories. Maybe the next generation of car buyers will not attach the same stigma to the Hyundai name and Hyundai will be regarded as more reliable than Honda, who knows? But by the time that happens my walker will be a little hard to navigate around the lot so I doubt I'll be selling them.
  • george00george00 Member Posts: 81
    There really is an issue of underequipped Japanese cars compared with Hyundai. I felt that a bit when comparing Elantra with a Civic but it was glaring where Toyota was concerned. A Corolla mid-level model (SE) not only did not have power sideview mirrors, as does the Elantra, the Corolla's mirror assemblies were immovable, meaning that in a brush-by the mirrors would not bend but would rip the door off. The Corolla 5-speed also lacked a tachometer. It was offered to me, after considerable bargaining, at just under $14,000. I paid $11,500 for my Elantra and that even included a Clifford security system. I realize the Toyota would hold value better - though even that's in question as Hyundais become more popular, and I see more and more of them. Meanwhile, I have many amenities I would not have with a Japanese car, and $2,500 extra in my pocket. As for Consumer Reports, which several posters mention, it is not your father's CR. Although Hyundais are becoming increasingly popular, CR has not tested one since January 1997 and includes no frequency-of-repair information on any Hyundai model. CR's recommended small car, the Mazda Protege, sells (according to CR) for $17,000 - half again as much as an Elantra, double an Accent.
  • bri70bri70 Member Posts: 147
    "I realize the Toyota would hold value better -"

    Yes, I would hope so considering it would have cost you more. So in the end it evens out.

    "CR's recommended
    small car, the Mazda Protege, sells (according to
    CR) for $17,000 - half again as much as an Elantra,
    double an Accent."

    The Protege is an excellent car, but with that price it is hard to justify. The Protege is not 4 to $5,000 dollars better than the Elantra!
  • dryfusdryfus Member Posts: 20
    With some research, here's what I found on Hyundai;

    The Accent has been out since 1995.
    The newly designed Elantra has been out since 1995.
    The Sonata has had different model changes, each step with vast improvements, since 1989.

    Yet, all the Hyundai models have "insufficient data".

    Even still, Consumer Reports only do "predictable reliability rating".

    Thus Consumer Reports is not a good source to find reliability data on Hyundais or any other models for that matter.

    J.D Powers which put Hyundai ahead of Mitsubishi, and in the territory of Chrysler and GM, maybe a better indication of reliability. But they only measure initial quality. Toyota Corolla tops out the economy class in initial quality, but as Car Point's reliabilty rating link shows, Toyota's quality becomes worse and worse as the cars age, which JD Powers does not measure. That's why you saw millions of Toyota Corollas 5 years ago. But today you only see the new Corollas while the ones built and bought 5 years ago have mysteriously disappeared (probably languishing in nation's many autoshops).
  • andes11andes11 Member Posts: 62
    Year: 1993
    Make:Honda
    Model:Civic
    NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 94V063000
    Potential Number of Units Affected: 191289
    Year of Recall: '94
    Summary:
    A retaining clip that connects the transmission
    shift cable to the shift lever actuating rod can
    have insufficient retention pressure and may
    eventually come off after repeated shift lever
    operation. If this happens, the position of the
    shift lever may not match the actual transmission
    gear position.
    This could result in unanticipated vehicle
    movement and accident.
    SYSTEM: POWERTRAIN; TRANSMISSION; AUTOMATIC.
    --------------------------------------------
    Year: 1994
    Make: Honda
    Model: Civic
    NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 93V208000
    Potential Number of Units Affected: 31
    Year of Recall: '93
    Summary:
    The passenger-side air bag modules contain
    incorrect inflators which are out of spec.
    for the passenger side air bag.
    In the event of a collision, the air bag may not
    provide adequate protection to the passenger.
    SYSTEM: INTERIOR SYSTEMS; PASSIVE RESTRAINTS; AIR BAG; PASSENGER.
    -------------------------------------------------
    Year: 1996
    Make: Honda
    Model: Civic
    NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 96V106000
    Potential Number of Units Affected: 160689
    Year of Recall: '96
    Summary:
    A soapy lubricant was used to insert the check
    valve into the vacuum hose which causes the brake
    booster check valve to stick.
    This condition can cause a loss of the brake's
    power assist resulting in a reduction in braking
    performance increasing the potential for a vehicle accident.
    SYSTEM: BRAKES; HYDRAULIC; POWER ASSIST; CHECK VALVE.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Year: 1996
    Make: Honda
    Model: Civic
    NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 99E015000
    Potential Number of Units Affected: 935167
    Year of Recall: '99
    Summary:
    Equipment Description: Accessory driver-side floor mats used in 1996-1998 Honda Civic vehicles.
    Due to the shape of the floor on these vehicles, a mispositioned floor mat could interfere with the accelerator pedal.
    The floor mat could prevent the accelerator pedal from returning to the idle position.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Year: 1996
    Make: Honda
    Model: Civic
    NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 99I002000
    Year of Recall: '99
    Summary:
    The accelerator pedal feels rough or notchy when you press it.
    It may feel like the car is not responding properly when traveling at low speeds and are required to move the accelerator pedal to make slight speed adjustments.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Year: 1997
    Make: Honda
    Model: Civic
    NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 97V193000
    Potential Number of Units Affected: 9558
    Year of Recall: '97
    Summary:
    The front passenger air bag modules have been improperly assembled. The cloth flaps covering the folded air bag may have been tucked in too far.
    This condition could prevent proper deployment of the air bag. In a crash, an improper air bag deployment could increase the risk of injury to a front seat passenger.
    -------------------------------------------------
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Now, I'm scared! There terrible recalls!

    I think you will find ALL manufactures have similar recalls. My 1992 Oldsmobile was recalled because the power seat wiring "can" slip out of place and "could" start a fire or something.

    Being a busy person, I looked under the seat, the wiring looked fine and was still fine when I sold the car two years later.

    And...horrors! My 1998 Civic EX Coupe was recalled because the driver's floot mat "could" slip forward and cause the gas pedal to stick!!

    Well...my floormat does not slip, and I've been too lazy to remember to have the dumb pin installed...maybe someday...yawn...

    True, some recalls could involve potentially dangerous situations but most are pretty friviolous. They affect ALL makes and models!
  • andes11andes11 Member Posts: 62
    > I think you will find ALL manufactures >have similar recalls.

    Has Elanta ever been recalled for poor design of
    retaining clip in transmission? No.
    Has Elantra ever been recalled for defective air
    bag? No.
    Has Elantra ever been recalled for careless assembly of brake system? No.
    Has Elantra ever been recalled for poor design of cabin floor? No.
    Has Elantra ever been recalled for defective throttle cable? No.
  • dryfusdryfus Member Posts: 20
    Even we have a Honda salesman, by his own admissions, is afraid Honda is losing the quality race.
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    I can't honestly understand how anyone would buy a Hyundai over a Civic. ? You are fooling yourself if you think Civic quality is not light years ahead of Elantra.
    My 97 in fact had the "factory accessory floor mat could move forward causing gas petal to stick" recall. I didn't have the accessory floor mat.
    I thought it was a joke to "recall" a floor mat.
    My car has almost 77,000 miles with zero problem from the day it was driven off the lot. $0.00 in warranty claims charged to Honda and $0.00 in unscheduled maintence. Claiming an Elantra or an Escort or a Metro is equivalent to a Civic will not work unless you are talking to yourselves.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I have no idea how many, or, if any Hyundais have been recalled for anything. I'll assume you're right and they have had zero recalls. Who cares?

    But, given enough time, I assure you that they WILL have recalls, so don't get too cocky when posting details of recalls of other makes.

    And...most will be frivolous, no doubt, just like the dumb floor mat recall.
  • bri70bri70 Member Posts: 147
    Hello25, have you driven a 99/00 Elantra? In what area did the Elantra fail to match up. Fit and finish? Handling? Fair people can disagree but to suggest that the differences are so obvious I can only guess that you have not been in the Elantra.
  • isell_mitsus1isell_mitsus1 Member Posts: 23
    andes: the Elantra has it's share of recalls so I think the pot better stop calling the kettle black.

    I have had 5 or 6 Hondas and they have all been perfect. The 2 people I know with Hyundai's have had myriad of problems and swear they will never buy another one. So again I ask you to show anything that shows the Hyundai is significantly mroe reliable the the Civic.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    A few postings of "troubles" from the millions and millions of Hondas that have been sold!

    I guess now we are supposted to wring our hands and run from Hondas like rats from a sinking ship?
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    Help with 92 Civic, 93 Civic, 95 Civic, 96 Civic?
    Does it occur to you that these examples are meaningless? A car having a "recall" problem and a car malfunctioning in the light of no information about the maintence history are not the same issue. As you know, you can not do things to a car-- which will mess it up and you can do things to a car which will mess it up. The statement I am reading on my screen right now: "...this is common on all civics" is wrong.
    You don't judge quality and reliabilty of any car by random owner statements going back to 92.
    It would be more helpful to take the consumer complaints of the most recent year and years in a current generation and find out if there are problems that are recurring and not statistically anamolous. www.nhtsa.dot.gov

    Korean automaking is not at the level of quality and refinement of Japan if you are talking about Japan's best companies Toyota and Honda. If saving $3,000. makes the car a better value than it is a better value. You'll pay the $3,000 down the road because between 75,000 and 150,000 the difference in quality will become obvious. In truth you'll probably find out the difference long before that. I'm not trying to disparge Hyundai.
    My point is that you get a discount economy car for the discount price. Honda has made the Civic since before the famous 1973 Civic CVCC engine, they are leading with ULEV technology, and have the first commerically avail. hybred. www.insightman.com What makes you think Honda is not better at making economy cars than Hyundai.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Like the idiot who threw his car into neutral before shutting off the cruise control? did I read that right?

    Warped brake rotors? These are usually caused by hard driving or overtorque on the lug nuts.

    And the other "problems" Well...how many miles did these horrible cars have on them? Usage, care?

    Give us a break! I wonder how many Hyundai stories of woe a person with time on their hands could drag up?

    All cars need repair sooner or later! some just need repairs more often...like Korean cars!
  • dryfusdryfus Member Posts: 20
    Do you have any proof that Elantras need repairs more often than average, just because it's a Hyundai? Prove it.
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    JD Power long term dependability study
    www.jdpower.com

    Does this help?
  • andes11andes11 Member Posts: 62
    NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation ID: 716923
    Make: HONDA
    Model: CIVIC
    Year: 2000
    Date of Failure: Sunday, December 12, 1999
    Incident: No
    Fire: Yes
    Number of Injuries: 0
    Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:IGNITION:SWITCH
    Summary: WHEN THE CAR WAS 2 WEEKS OLD, WE RETURNED FROM A DRIVE AND FOUND THE CAR WOULD NOT SHUT OFF, EVEN WITH THE IGNITION IN THE "OFF" POSITION AND THE KEY REMOVED.
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    I'm pleased you went to the NHTSA site.
    Please do quote the part about the fire.
    I don't see it.
  • andes11andes11 Member Posts: 62
    JD Power..
    Here's an Accord owner who says most recalls
    ordered by NHTSA are "pretty frivolous."
    Suppose this gentleman gets a JD Power survey form in the mail.
    What are the chances of this man, who attributes the warped rotor on Civic to "hard driving" and lied to us on the Honda distributor problem,
    answering to the questionnaire correctly and honestly?
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    I'd like to read about the fire.
  • daytripper3daytripper3 Member Posts: 4
    i do not really even think that it is fair to compare hyundai to honda...honda has been around for a long time...they made their share of mistakes when first importing cars to america...so why should this be any different for hyundai? why is hyundai consistently bashed and made fun of? were any of you even around when honda first started importing cars to america? and if so, were you one of the ones calling them "japanese junk"? you have to think back to the roots and beginnings of honda in america. i bet you didn't own one when they first hit american soil! i bet it took you years of chevy's ford's, dodge's before honda got it's reputation for reliability before you would even look at one...then you all happily jumped on the honda band-wagon...i bet you wouldn't have sworn by them 25 years ago...get a grip...
  • dryfusdryfus Member Posts: 20
    How accurate is this study? Since it's a survey of owners, it doesn't show what the nature of the problems are. There could be something wrong with the whole engine, or there could be something wrong with a squeeking brake peddle that needs a little dab of lubricant. But they all count as "problems". Another thing, the study doesn't measure long term reliability, only "initial quality". Another thing, even with this incomplete study, Hyundai's J.D power rating in Britain(my home town) was 9th last year, in the upper echlon (why such difference?), while Daewoo Britain came in 4th. Another thing, in the US, Hyundai scored higher than Mitsubishi, and beat out such established makes as Volkswagen, Suzuki.
    Another thing, earlier we've looked at Carpoint's link which clearly showed Hyundai Elantra/Sonata as very reliable over the years. You are all probably mistaking Ponies/Excels/Stellars which have all been out of production for years, with Hyundai cars. I suggest you all keep up to date,
    we're not in the 80's anymore.

    So your assertions that Hyundai is "worst in its class" is certainly false, and at worst, complete lies.
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    25 years ago if we are 25 it would be the day we were born. If we are 50 today we would have been 25. If we were 50 years old we probably would not be debating on Edmunds about Honda Civics. Are you talking about America? Driving a Toyota Corona in 1966 or a Honda Civic in 1971 was radical because 1. foreign cars were rare and 2. most cars were huge. It would be like driving a Honda Insight. Driving a Hyundai is not that brave.

    JD Power long term dependibility does not measure initial quality. They do have an inital quality survey also. www.jdpower.com
    The most recent study is 99. Car has to be 5 years old. Toyota's Lexus has won for five years running. In fact Hyundai sold cars in 94. I looked it up. Hyundai is not worst in its class.
    Kia is worst in its class. I think Hyundai bought Kia. Kia is the worst car being sold in the US
    because we don't have the Yugo anymore.

    I guess I'm not going to hear about the fire.
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    You want to claim a Hyundai is the same quality as a Civic?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I guess you don't know much about cars.

    Brake rotors are warped by overheating, or by over tightening the lug nuts. Any mechanic will tell you that.

    I "lied" about distributor problems on Hondas?

    I'm done with you!

    Enjoy your Huyndai!
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Why is it that Honda owners have such a hard time believing they may have actually paid too much for a percieved quality/reliability advantage? Why is it they cannot understant the maybe, just maybe an automanufacture may build somthing of better value/quality than a Honda.
    Boy, I wish I would have kept those numbers that convinced me that Hyundia is no joke any longer. All I remember is their sales have double, customer satisfaction has skyrocketed. Honda is surviving on one thing alone, its reputation. What happens when people start to realize they don't have to pay the extra 3K for reliability?
  • integra_gsrintegra_gsr Member Posts: 1
    i have owned a 97 Accent which i sold to my brother when i started college which now has almost 60k on it with not one problem.

    i bought a 99 Elantra Sedan in which i was involved with a headon collision at 50 mph. i did not have a scratch on me. I think Hyundais are excellent cars. Between my parents and my brother and i, we have owned 10 since they have been brought to the US. We all whole heartedly recommend them to anyone.

    After the accident i bought a Kia Sephia to replace the Elantra. what a horrendous car. The brakes shudder like crazy, the passenger side window has extreme trouble going up all the way, and its only getting around 22mpg on the highway.

    I am shopping around for a Civic to replace the Sephia. I think that the Hyundai Elantra and the Honda Civic are two of the best small cars out there.
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    See I think that's what people don't like-- the presumption that Honda owners can not judge car quality and overpaid based on reputation.
    It's insulting, isn't it? And isn't it more objective, in spite of how the different owners of cars might feel, to think that Hyundai sells at $3,000 less for objective reasons, not because Honda and Toyota buyers lack judgement?
    Honda is leading with engine technology, ULEV, VTEC, Insight (www.insightman.com). You think the quaility, the efficiency, the long term durability of the Civic engine and the rest of the car are not better? Sometimes you get what you pay for.
    I don't know what a better value is for someone else but what I know is that there is a huge difference between a car running to 80,000 miles with oil changes and having a car that falls apart or fails. Hyundai may have improved its reliablity but it still isn't famous for it. At any rate, shoppers should also consider that for not much more money (or less) you can get the lowest trim level Civic ($9,999), or a Toyota Corolla or Echo.
    If you take the base Civic or Corolla and add air conditioning, then consider that you pay invoice + a %, not MSRP they might not be as expensive as you think. I don't think Hyundai is any kind of joke.
  • dryfusdryfus Member Posts: 20
    I got this little bit of interesting fact from another forum.


    "according to www.nhtsa.gov, complaints filed to
    the nhtsa for 1999 are as follows: Toyota
    Camry-117, Honda Accord 83, Mitsu Galant 26, Kia
    Sephia 158, Hyundai Sonata 5, DAEWOO LEGANZA 1. For 2000, so far; Accord 25, Camry 12, Galant 2,Sephia 12, Sonata 2, and DAEWOO LEGANZA 0."

    Since Hyundai is so unreliable, they've had 5, complaints to nhtsa for all of last year. Of course you'll say there are more Hondas on the road, but look at how many Kia's are on the road and see how many problems they have. Shouldn't Hyundai be like a Kia at least if some of you guy's theories about Hyundai being unreliable is true? Thankfully for Kia, Hyundai bought them out recently.
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    Yes of course that's what we're going to say.
    The #1 selling car in 1999 was Camry. The number approaches 500,000. The number # 2 selling car was Accord. I haven't said Hyundai is not more reliable than Kia.
  • dryfusdryfus Member Posts: 20
    Look at the number of sales versus problems
    reported. Look at the ratio and tell me Hyundai is
    not reliable.
  • bri70bri70 Member Posts: 147
    Those stats you relayed are interesting. Of course it is true that there are more of those other vehicles on the road. But the point stands.

    I remember Vince8's link which stated something to the effect that after one year the number of Hyundai vehicles with problems were only a few percentage points higher than Honda's.
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    You do the math. We'll do the geography.
    Cars selling at high volume have a high number of NHTSA complaints. Cars selling at a low volume have a low number. It proves nothing. Kia's numbers are incredibly high because Kia is the problem child of the auto industry. Kia is owned by Hyundai (doesn't inspire confidence to me).
    You haven't proven that Hyundai is as reliable as Honda. Why do you want to think a Hyundai is as well made as a Civic which is easily one of the two best cars in its class the other being Corolla. You got a discount car for a discount price so be happy the price was fair.
  • daytripper3daytripper3 Member Posts: 4
    why can't we just tolerate our differences?
  • bri70bri70 Member Posts: 147
    Last I checked the Elantra (and just the Elantra) was selling over 8000 vehicles a month and growing. I would consider that high volume. Not as high as the Civic, but high nonetheless.

    You said it. I got a discount(and very good)car at a discount price. I just want to let others know that they do not need to pay premium price for a discount car (Civic).
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Down the road when you find out about the terrible resale values on Hyundais!
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    If you think Honda with VTEC and ULEV engines is a discount car you don't know much about cars.
    The entire world including Mercedes Benz
    is involved with price points for parts suppliers and Hyundai can magically make the same car for less money? Or Honda is a total scam on the public?
    Why do need to trash Civics to feel good about yourself? Forget Civic. Compare Hyundai to Kia if you want to feel good.
  • dryfusdryfus Member Posts: 20
    "Why do need to trash Civics to feel good about
    yourself? Forget Civic".

    I think this question must be answered by the Honda supporters as well, except switch the word Civic with Elantra. If I remember correctly it was a Honda owner who first said Hyundai's are trash because they are unreliable which Hyundai supporters with links and figures, are saying that is not true. I haven't seen anyone trashing the Civic.
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    To tell you the truth I like to talk about Mercedes-Benz and Lexus and Hyundai and Kia
    because I like cars and I like all cars.
    I was reading Kia posts and and I found
    one that said "KIA, Kind, Industrious, Automobile"
    Here were 1 in 3 posts saying it stranded me 4 times in 2000 miles and it's the biggest piece of junk in the world! and still someone had kind, temperate, loving words for the car.
    All I'm saying is the cars in this topic are at different price points and really isn't because anyone is stupid or anyone is getting scamed.
  • bri70bri70 Member Posts: 147
    I have always said that the Civic is a good car. I have even stated that the Civic had a slightly better ride than the Elantra. Refinement is a little better in the Civic. But is it 3 to 4K better. No way!
  • dryfusdryfus Member Posts: 20
    What makes you think Hyundai is responsible for Kia's current reliability problems? It was only very recently did Hyundai purchase KIA. And even then, it would take years to iron out all the bugs. Just as Japanese companies do not have same quality level, same hold true for KIA and Hyundai.
  • hello25hello25 Member Posts: 30
    What I can tell you is that my Civic is between
    70k and 80k and $0.00 warranty repairs charged to Honda and $0.00 unscheduled maint.

    The check transmission light came on. I had spilled soda into the shift assembly.

    The wiper motor broke a few weeks ago. I had
    turned it on with snow and ice covering the blades.

    There was a recall. It was a floor-mat that was getting stuck on gas petals. I didn't have the floor-mat and so it didn't apply to my car.


    The car is 100%. It shows every sign of going to 150k with oil changes and the scheduled timing built.

    It was worth it to me to pay for it. I got what I paid for.

    The Koreans are industrious but they have not achieved what Japan has yet. In the case of Honda and economy cars ULEV engine develpment proves
    Honda's engineering superiority. Build quality is higher because of price points for suppliers is nothing else. You can't sell a car at the bottom of the market and put the same material quality in it. Honda Accord is having a huge reliablity/ reputation crisis (Edmunds Accord Topic, NHTSA
    leading complaints see above). When the same happens to Civic then you can call it a rip-off.

    In the US:
    Kia is a joke (I like it but it is a joke)
    Hyundai has stabalized its reliablity
    Daewoo is unproven.
  • dryfusdryfus Member Posts: 20
    What makes you think a Hyundai can't achieve the
    same or near same reliability and quality as a
    Honda, as you have talked about, but for thousands
    less? If you take the early Hyundais like the
    Pony/Stellar/Excels of the 1980's out of the equation, Hyundai has actually has been good reliable cars. The numbers of repairs indicate that which we have already seen. Even my local
    newspaper did a nice article on the 1995 Accent
    which was praised for its near Honda-like reliability minus some refinement, but for thousands less. Major complaints with this car has been far and few in between, except for few niggly little problems, according to the newspaper.

    I dare you to go over to the Sonata vs Camry vs Accord page, and start reading from post #7.
    This person did a heck of a job comparing OBJECTIVELY, the cars involved. And guess what,
    a Hyundai came out on top, tied with Toyota.

    You say Hyundai isn't there yet. But I say they are already there just in terms of quality and reliability. How much more do you really want from Hyundai before you give in and give some credit where credit is due?
  • andes11andes11 Member Posts: 62
    VTEC(in 1.6L): only kicks in after 4,800 rpm.
    Useless for everyday driving. Noisy.
    ULEV: 2000 Civics are not ULEVs.
    Anything else?
  • andes11andes11 Member Posts: 62
    >The wiper motor broke a few weeks ago. I had
    >turned it on with snow and ice covering the
    >blades.

    Here we go again. Faulting the driver.
    Remember the posts on the warped rotor? What did the Hondaman say about the cause?

    In this case,
    Something is wrong with the motor and/or related
    components.
    If there's a overcurrent, the fuse protecting
    the wiper motor circuitry will blow before
    the damage is done to the motor.
  • andes11andes11 Member Posts: 62
    What are the chances of these Civic owners
    answering survey questionaires correctly and truthfully?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Last two posts aren't even worth a rebuttal.

    Most people are too smart to fall for such rubbish!
  • greentrees77greentrees77 Member Posts: 7
    I own a 2000 Odyssey and a 2000 Civic HB. In looking at both car's boards, it is amazing how Hondas get under some people's skins.

    The 2000 Civic HB replaced a 1990 Civic HB with over 230,000 miles. I spent very little on repairs; in the last 80,000 miles or so, I spent amazingly little on maintenance.

    In other words, that car saved me thousands and thousands of dollars. So we bought another. Was it overpriced? I won't know for ten years or 200,000 miles.

    For me, reliability means going 10 years/200,000+ miles with relatively few problems. While Hyundai has apparently improved significantly, I don't think you can say Hyundai is there with Honda until the newer and better cars are still performing well after ten years.

    It is interesting that Honda is dropping the HB's for the new model. I think this means the entry level Honda will be even pricier, conceding the low priced car market to Hyundai etal?

    Finally, I am in the engineering/construction business. For the construction of pressure vessels, the Koreans are bidding at half the price of the American shops. We have some in their shops, From what I here, it is going well so far.
  • gbuck1gbuck1 Member Posts: 2
    I recently dumped my 1994 Honda Civic LX and bought a North American made car. I fell into the imports are better quality propoganda and bought an import. They are cheap and it's like driving in a tin can.

    In the six years I had my Honda, I went through three head gaskets. Honda replaced the first one at 35K miles. The car chronically would run hot and every dealership indicated that they could not duplicate the problem. Buy a quality car.
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