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Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis

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  • iusecadiusecad Member Posts: 287
    twice now I've been close to buying 2 different '99 CV's (one w/15K other w/19K miles) and I passed because they didn't "feel" right... too floaty; the shocks were good on them 'cause they put them on a rack and showed me... I have a '90 CV w/158K on it and I prefer the ride in it to the newer ones. Don't get me wrong, I love the looks and the interior comfort of the newer ones (and the new car smell) but are there shocks that can firm it up some? both '99's were LX's w/o the P&H package and my '90 CV is a base LTD. Otherwise I drive a '95 Silverado (4x4 for the snow in northern MN tho we don't hardly get any any more) and I don't need a new car BUT I have the itch AND my CV is going on a month now at the Ford shop waiting to have a short found while the dealership is being sold and new people brought in. I miss it very much and hate having to drive just my truck, of course I'd have to trade my truck in to get a new CV, but they are a hell of a car. What do you folks think?
  • bthompbthomp Member Posts: 69
    The 98's had Traction Control and ABS together. If you got one, you got the other. The 99CV/GM allowed TCS as a option divorced from the ABS.
    iusecad: The P+H package makes this car a lot less floaty. It also makes the car a lot more drivable. You probably could use a stiffer shock with the base model springs, but the thinner sway bars will become apparent in turns. Try driving the P+H option. I have never had any complaints that the P+H was too harsh. In fact I have gone to aftermarket shocks to stiffen it up even more. You will spend more money "fixing" the standard CV/GM suspension to meet the P+H standard than if you get it from the get-go. I believe you also get a full size spare as well as the self leveling suspension. You can get the base CV/GM with the P+H as an option. That shouldn't break 21k. Hold out for a used 98+CV/GM P+H if you want a better ride but don't have the new car cost $$. Most people who have driven these cars as rentals don't realise the difference between this car with the P+H option. It takes a typical floaty, soft (uncontrolled feeling) underpowered car, and transforms it to a car you are not afraid to toss into (and launch out of) a corner. I freak Honda's out all the time by starting slow in a long decreasing radius turn and ACCELERATING out. The look of panic in their eyes when they try to catch up and find their front end going off the road is priceless:-) Yes these cars stick.
  • iusecadiusecad Member Posts: 287
    thanks bthomp. the salesman for the second CV told me I wouldn't like the P&H package, so without actually saying it he was telling me to buy his without it... of the 4 Ford/Mercury dealers within 70 miles of my house, I bet they have a total of 5 and only one (a GM) had the P&H. I might go try and test drive it; don't know if they'll let me; that dealer sells Cadillac, Lincoln & Mercury, the sticker is $28k and I'm only 22... they'll probably laugh me out the door. I guess I'll see. I'm supposed to help my brother move in a couple of weeks so I can't trade off my truck just yet anyhow.....
  • bthompbthomp Member Posts: 69
    My neighbor's relative works for a taxi service. He occasionally waits for a few hours when picking up his mother-in-law. I have had some time to talk to him about the car he drives, a 98 Fleet Crown Vic. He currently has 176,000 on the car with no major repairs. They get rid of them at 200,000 because they are afraid of recurring repairs. I still thought that was inpressive. I have heard of taxi's getting up to 350k before they croak, but this was interesting to actually see a car with that millage with the same age as my car.
  • bthompbthomp Member Posts: 69
    Don't worry about the age thing though. I was 29 when I got my 98 CV LX and the dealer didn't even blink.
  • johnbonojohnbono Member Posts: 80
    There does seem to be a difference between CV & GM drivers, imho. The CV drivers tend to focus more on the car's performance, and that fact that they are driving a "cop car". The GM owners tend to be more in their 60's looking to drive the big boat that they used to drive as a kid.
  • dzerdzer Member Posts: 1
    Am thinking very seriously about the GM LS with
    the ultimate package. I hear people talking about getting the car for $2,ooo under invoice. There seems to be $1,500 rebate, and another $500 offered in Va.(near where I live in Md.) Could someone tell me if these will actually bring it in at $2,ooo less than invoice? Where will I end up ultimately in terms of price after I do all of my homework? Thanks
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    What are the latest news regarding Ford's market release of this car?
  • bthompbthomp Member Posts: 69
    Not soon enough. Blue oval news had the latest...but their server was down this PM. I guess all in all we probably will see it when they drop that GTP motor in the Impala eh?! LOL. I'm still waiting on pins n' needles for the official final version of the Merc Mar. Lots of discussion about the engine config, 4.6 DOHC w/SVO blower, 4.6 SOHC w/blower, 5.4 w/o blower etc....:-)
  • olddominionolddominion Member Posts: 3
    Dzer: Rebates have nothing to do with invoice. I got my GM at invoice. After the 2,000$ in rebates was deducted, the selling price was actually 2,000$ under invoice. If the dealer sells you the car at 500$ over invoice and then deducts the 2,000$ in rebates, you will pay 1,500 under invoice for the car. I got the car at invoice minus the 2,000$ in rebates.
  • cvtowercvtower Member Posts: 1
    I have a '00 Crown Vic LX on order with P&H package, but am disappointed that Ford stopped offering the towing package in '95. I have used my '92 CV with factory tow package to tow my 5,000 lb. boat/trailer rig. The tow package was rated for a max of 5,000 lbs. and has performed admirably. Trailer Boat magazine rated the CV the tow vehicle of the year (car division) in '93. My question is this - has anyone else tried to equip the CV to tow more than the 2,000 lbs. it can from the factory by adding on aftermarket stuff - engine oil and transmission cooler, bigger battery, power steering oil cooler. Also in the factory package were heavy duty u-joints and high capacity radiator. The P&H package gives me the lower rear end and air shocks as well as higher hp. Some I have talked to are leery about cutting into the oil lines to add the engine oil cooler. If a connection fails - there goes the oil!!! Plus, doing these things voids the factory warranty, so I may wait until I'm past the warranty period to make the modifications. Anybody else make these modifications or consider it to make the CV the great tow vehicle it used to be with factory tow package? Pros and Cons?
  • kinleykinley Member Posts: 854
    I fully understand your situation. I, too, tow a boat behind my Ford product which has the P&H, but not the "Tow" package. IMO, adding a tranny cooler will not void the warranty any more than adding a weight distributing hitch. (You are actually doing the tranny a treat with the cooler when not towing) I also subscribe to Trailerboat and after a letter from one of their "tow" editors decided the 00 CV tow rating of 2,000 lbs was to encourage you to buy one of their more profitable SUV's to do your towing. IMO, adding a 10,000 lb tranny cooler and a WD hitch, and wiring, is all that is necessary. With my Searay in tow I use mid grade gas and lock out O/D when ascending an incline or traversing mountain roads. If your elevation is sea level, and the road is level, 60 mph in O/D is OK if you are not lugging the engine. Watch the temp gauge and if it starts to climb, lockout O/D. Just don't lug the engine. I've towed from the lakes of BC to Shasta in CA with prudence and care and no problems. Enjoy your new CV with the after market "Towing Package".
  • tbear503tbear503 Member Posts: 70
    I have app. 25K on my '99 MGM, and am perfectly satisfied with it, but...seem to have rattles in the driver's door. I expected dash panel noises over certain bumps as thats a characteristic with body-on-frame cars. Am curious if anyone else has door rattles, etc.?

    Really a great car otherwise though!
  • kinleykinley Member Posts: 854
    One of our cars is a 95 T Bird we bought used, 2 years old with 18k miles. The service manager was great about warranteeing the new rear shocks, but said Ford would not stand for the cost of eliminating the many rattles in the dash. IMO, the warranty should cover rattles and hope you will be successful in having Uncle Henry remove your door rattles at his expense. We still have the dash rattles & next week I'm taking it in to the local after market radio installer. I'll pay him to remove the factory set, go in and tighten up whatever rattles and reinstall the radio. Good Luck with your dealer and Uncle Henry.
  • jjaggersjjaggers Member Posts: 9
    Does anyone know the when the Marauder will go on sale? Or any other information. I can't seam to find much information.

    Thanks,

    Jim
  • kinleykinley Member Posts: 854
    Not much is being said as to when, but when is when I buy one. What have you heard the engine will be? Supercharged? 4.6 or 5.4, sohc or dohc? What rear end ratio? 3.08, 3.27, or 3.55?Will the only color be black, which is not a color. I guess the towing package will be a natural part of the car. It sure looks good on the Mercuryvehicles.com web site. Price?
  • jjaggersjjaggers Member Posts: 9
    You sound like me. I would buy one today if they were out. This is the only place I could find anything and the information seams to contridict itself. First says 2003; then says starting to build in August 2000 for the 2001 model year. Also, I called the 800 number from the mercury site and they told me (After I spelled Marauder)January 2001. So I don't know for sure what is true. It does appear the 2001 GM will have a different body style. If you find anything else i would appreciate an update.

    Jim
  • jjaggersjjaggers Member Posts: 9
    Sorry, I ment to put this address in the last post.


    www.blueovalnews.com/marauder_a_reality.htm

    Jim
  • macarthur2macarthur2 Member Posts: 135
    Do you know what car has been the best selling full sized car in the US for the last eight (8) years?
  • kinleykinley Member Posts: 854
    a pretty FWD car missing 2 cylinders that appeals to the frugal folk who care more for looks and style than engineering masterpieces with RWD & an OHC V8. They usually run with scuffed WSW tires as their owners have a propensity to park by braille. Prissy school marms love em.
  • macarthur2macarthur2 Member Posts: 135
    Must be lots of school marms to outsell the CV and GM combined huh? Or a lot of people who realize the interior of both cars is identical in measuremnet and you don't need 14" of overhang and 500 lbs more weight which requires a v8 cause no v6 will pull it. Lots of pretty smart high tech loving people around. Seriously if your in the market drive both and do a comparison you might be surprised what you buy if you can make comparisons without bias.
  • golfnut5golfnut5 Member Posts: 202
    I did do a comparison about two months ago and bought a 2000 GM. The GM is quieter and smoother than the LeSabre with two additional cylinders to boot. The GM is also a much better value. The LeSabre is a good auto, but not a match for the GM or CV.
  • dhmacarthurdhmacarthur Member Posts: 10
    Figured out the miles per gallon for the last tank full on my 2000 CV, P&H, with just over 1300 miles. It was just under 14 mpg. Not bad when you consider that the car is being broken in, was driven mostly around town, and wasn't driven for economy. I varied the speed as much as possible to help break in the 4.6. Guess the mpg won't get any worse and am sure it will get much better. In about another 300-40 miles will need to add a quart of oil. My father used to say that he was concerned that if a car didn't use ANY oil the engine wasn't getting good lubrication. So far so good. Am very pleased with the car and very glad I found one with the P&H package. Am also happy to have rear wheel drive. all the FWD cars I owned were headaches with replacing constant velocity boots and other problems.
  • airjayairjay Member Posts: 1
    AIRJAY LOOKING FOR HELP. IS A LINCOLN TOWNE CAR WORTH $15000 MORE THAN A MERCURY GRAND MARQUIS? THE NEXT QUESTION IS THE GM GOING TO CHANGE THIS COMING MODEL YEAR ? WHAT IS THE RELIABILITY OF THE GM VS THE LINCOLN TOWNE CAR ? I WOULD APPRECIATE A RESPONSE TO MY PROBLEN. THANKS
  • mrfmrf Member Posts: 20
    The Lesabre conference is #2568...maybe you can go over there and help those folks, looks like some of them have some real problems...hint hint nudge nudge...

    For everybody else...2000 GM p/h, purchased 2 months ago, 4250 miles so far..no problems. Averaging 21.5 mpg (80% highway).
  • johnbonojohnbono Member Posts: 80
    You are much better off by getting a loaded GM over a Town Car. Depreciation on Town Cars is *HORRENDOUS*, and the executive towncar is almost option for option identical to a loaded GM LS. Reliablility for both cars is good, but the town car has more electric doodads which can become a pain in the posterior to fix as the car gets older.
  • macarthur2macarthur2 Member Posts: 135
    To make you happy I'll leave but want to leave these numbers with you 22mpg in town and 30.1 (at 75mph) highway. Oh yes and 0-60 in 7.9. LeSaber is quicker and more economical. But I'll leave you alone, just want some folks who might be looking to buy know that that do have a #1 best seller for eight consecutive years in the Buick LeSabre.
    Have a nice day, and no hard feelings.---Do you know Saturnboy?
  • kinleykinley Member Posts: 854
    are being sold in the NW for $10,000 less than list. Executives are going for $29,995 inc'l leather, but not including Performance and Handling, but air shocks are standard. I read the adds when I drove to BC and found them in the Portland & Seattle areas. Folks from CA should not buy these as they may not pass the CA DEQ test. IMO this makes the Towncar $5,000 more than a loaded GM LS. In 94 I choose the T/C as it had more room in the back for large relatives.
  • jenn10jenn10 Member Posts: 2
    we're considering buying a '92 MGM LS..VERY low miles (45,000)..seems to be loaded, very clean , was garaged.Any insight or advice on this year/model anyone could give me, would be appreciated. Owner is asking $5600..we're thinking of offering about $5000, due to some kind of brake problem..they're sticky or jerky when you try to use them, otherwise the car is in fabulous condition...thanks from California
  • kinleykinley Member Posts: 854
    If it has the factory CD player with JBL Sound, pay the 5600, but if not pay the 5000. If two rotars need to be replaced plus the loaded calipers, it could cost up to $400 to correct the brakes. Does it have new Michelin tires? Has the transmission oil been changed? Collision history? In the begining it was a solid car. Tough to advise w/o seeing and driving it.
  • capecod1capecod1 Member Posts: 1
    If its a clunking noise from front end going over bumps, try the drag links. They have a ball joint with grease that dries out. They are hard to diagnose-must be tested with wheels on the ground not on a lift.
  • jenn10jenn10 Member Posts: 2
    No, it's not a clunking noise, just kind of jerky..it has not been in a crash, nor does it have the CD system, just a cassette stereo, tires are pretty new, does anyone think paying $5000 is too much ?? Thanks
  • auto223auto223 Member Posts: 4
    Just purchased a 2K CVLX and fear that I should have gotten one with the P & H package. It seems that for the money I should have ordered one with it because my car really needs some tweaking in the "handling" department. Any suggestions on what I can do now as far as aftermarket solutions are concerned? Should I arrange to have one of those "superchips" installed? I use my car for regular purposes but I sure wish I had the P & H package.
    Thanks. Auto223
  • johnbonojohnbono Member Posts: 80
    The performance and handling package includes the following mods:

    1) dual exhaust
    2) 3.55 rear end
    3)(not sure on this) revised(higher) shift points and redline for the engine
    4)Thicker anti sway bars and load leveling rear suspension (air springs)

    Trying to change the suspension to the air suspension in the P&H package is prohibitively expensive, and requires major work. However, police interceptor springs will work as a substitute. You can also change the anti sway bar to a thicker one for a P&H model easily enough. You can also exhange the standard shocks to a set of bilsteins(copcars.net has them). This will firm up the ride quite a bit over a standard CV.

    To improve straight line performance, the first thing you should do is switch to dual exhaust(not cheap). That will give you more horsepower than a chip will. However, you would need to change the rear end to a 3.27 or 3.55 to really make a difference(and that I believe is $1200, and I don't think that includes labor) Bottom line, the best way to get a P&H CV is to buy a P&H CV.
  • pnwestpnwest Member Posts: 1
    I am in the early stages of research on the purchase of either a CVLX or GMLS. What is the benefit of the P&H package. Several dealers have indicated that it will make the ride harsher with the package. I did drive one, but quite frankly in a short test drive it is hard to tell what the benefit is. I am not interested in a sport car ride but by the same token do not want to pass up a package that I should seriously consider. Your help please.......
  • bthompbthomp Member Posts: 69
    pnwest: You have come up against the typical salesperson. They always want to sell the standard CV on their lots. Their favorite ploy is to say that the P+H ride will be too harsh. My advice (and it sounds like you did it already) is to test drive the P+H over varied pavement. Include speed bumps in shopping malls. Let your backside decide...not some salesperson who wants to move his/her stock.
    The performance and handling package revises the sway bar, spring and shock rates for a firmer ride. That does not mean the ride is jarring. It makes the car corner better by reducing body roll and controls the car at highway speeds better than the standard suspension. The "firmer ride" (still too soft for me) will also decrease your braking distances. The addded 15hp and torque by going to the dual exhaust helps out quite a bit off the line along with the 3.55 rear gear. The air shocks are great. From personal experience, I have loaded my car up with cement bags in the trunk, the springs level the back end so you don't bottom the car out on curbs/bumps. The same for three large adults in the back seat. I have seen snowbirds coming up from Florida in a non P+H GM with three older people in the back, with a full trunk, and the back end just bobs up and down almost hitting the ground. From a safety standpoint the air shocks are worth it. Try them both models. As you can tell from an earlier post, trying to modify a non P+H is prohibitively $$$$$. By buying the package, you get all the goodies to start with. As a side note, FORD only produces the P+H on limited #'s of civilian CV and GM. And they sell relatively fast. When I was shopping for one 2 years ago I got the same "harsh ride" run around.
  • bthompbthomp Member Posts: 69
    If you sink some money into your 2k CVLX you can build a better P+H. It will require removing the existing exhaust system, installing custom headers, hi flow cat-backs, replacing the standard springs with police interceptor springs all around, get bilstein heavy duty shocks, replace existing sway bars with beefier ones, get a superchip to increase the shift points, take advantage of the easier breathing engine, adjust the timing, install Eagle RS-A, or Firestone Firehawks or other perf. tire. Quite a bit of work. I'm 30 and I find the P+H still too soft. Because of my age, and what I'm used to driving, I have no concept what a luxery ride is supposed to feel like. Is it uncontrollably soft? That is how I would describe the standard CV...but an older person might like that sort of feeling. For a comparison I find the 98 CV P+H less harsh than my old 89 Taurus LX, and yet more controlled.
  • auto223auto223 Member Posts: 4
    From Auto 223- Did I understand that the 3.55 rear
    end would cause fewer or more engine revolutions at a given hwy speed that the stock cv rear end.
    thanks again.
  • johnbonojohnbono Member Posts: 80
    I would not worry too much about the ride being more harsh. CVs have a big wheelbase, and that contributes a lot to the smooth ride. The only person whom I have heard complain about the CV's ride being harsh was someone who had a Police Interceptor who also had installed Bilstein shocks. And yes, the p&h is hard to find. I've been looking for a used one and I have found 1 used one after checking about a dozen different ford dealers. It has been frustrating, since I need the p&h package so I can tow a boat with my CV without the porpoising look that the regular cv's get. For dealers in the fairfield county, CT area, nudge, nudge.

    And yes, the 3.55 gearing will rev the engine higher at speed. However, at 70, the engine is on a normal CV is not working very hard at all, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
  • auto223auto223 Member Posts: 4
    From Auto 223-I greatly appreciate everyone's help with my P & H questions. Because I just spent most of my disposable car money (car 2 wks old) I guess I'll, for now just 1.get the dual exhausts.
    2. install i/springs all around.3 install bilstgeins. and maybe one of those superchips. I just wondered if I had to use higher than 87 Octane fuel with a chip?
  • auto223auto223 Member Posts: 4
    From Auto 223-I greatly appreciate everyone's help with my P & H questions. Because I just spent most of my disposable car money (car 2 wks old) I guess I'll, for now just 1.get the dual exhausts.
    2. install i/springs all around.3 install bilstgeins. and maybe one of those superchips. I just wondered if I had to use higher than 87 Octane fuel with a chip?
  • HacksawHacksaw Member Posts: 29
    If it's only 2 weeks old and you didn't put a whole lot of miles on it, it probably didn't lose very much of it's value. I'd try getting the dealer to buy it back for 1-2 thousand less and then order the P&H model from him. If he balks, try another dealer. Explain the situation to him and you might just get lucky.

    I think it's pretty silly to tear apart a brand new car and option it out. If the work isn't done quite right you no longer have a "good as new" car, and some of the mods you are suggesting will void the warranty. If the added P&H is important to you, cut your losses now and get that model.
  • kinleykinley Member Posts: 854
    Monroe makes rear air shocks you fill manually. I used them on an 82 Towncar for 12 years and pumped them up to 100 lbs when towing my 17' boat. For normal driving I kept them at 70 lbs. Twining out the exhaust helps with the pickup and Touring type tires also help, but first try putting 35 lbs of air in the tires you have. As you tow a boat, I'd recommend a 10,000 lb transmission cooler be installed. The heavier anti sway bars are worth the cost also.
  • lrestichlrestich Member Posts: 1
    I currently own a 1986 GM with 197K miles. Awesome car. I have been looking at th 1997 and like it very much. However I am finding it difficult to find one with the options I would like i.e. LS trim with leather seats, handling package, traction control. I have located a 1996. Can someone tell me if there is any definite advantage to the 1997 over the 1996. Thanks, Lee
  • kinleykinley Member Posts: 854
    the comprehensive & collision premiums will be lower, sooner. IMO if you like the '96, buy it.
  • white64white64 Member Posts: 2
    The "check engine" light on my '94 CV-LX with 135,000 miles has started coming on at speeds above 70 MPH. I suspect the oxygen sensor although someone posted that his dealer changed the EGR valve to fix the same symptom.

    - Does anyone have a feel for the life of the oxygen sensor?

    - Does anyone know how to read the computer error codes without taking it to a dealer?
  • sunnysofiasunnysofia Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1990 in mint condition that I need to sell. I hate to part with it bec. it is in MINT condition...except that the odomoter just stopped working! Should I fix it before I sell it?
    Am I better off taking a hit for a broken odomoter or should I simply avoid any responsiblity for the car under MA lemon law and say it has 101K miles?
  • bthompbthomp Member Posts: 69
    If your on-board computer is an EEC-IV you can purchase a $35 tester from track-auto, autozone or walmart. You plug it in and follow the instructions. The booklet gives you an explanation of the codes. Oxygen sensors (usually two of them) can last 100k. When checking out error codes sometimes an EGR can also give similar codes. Both of devices fail over time.
  • raderwalkerraderwalker Member Posts: 1
    Just got a 94 CV. During a hard rain water somehow enters the car and accumulates in the rear passerger's floor. Neither I or the Dealer can find the leak - or replicate it. Any ideas?
  • iusecadiusecad Member Posts: 287
    even when you go through one of those touch-free high pressure washes? every vehicle I own leaks in one of those...
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