Dodge/Plymouth Neon

snowman · May 2001

Some people may have good experience with them but to me they are average tires. Indeed $100 is pretty good price. If Goodyear comes with new car I use them but replacement will definitely be different brand. Personally I prefer Michelin X One - MXV4 Energy - Pirelli and Yokohoma. If you want to get highest wet traction these would be my selection. Dunlop is OK too but compound is kinda soft. However if you utilize your Neon for back up car then I guess those used ones are going to be OK. If I were you, I would log on to www.tirerack.com and look at the prices.

Since I wracked my Accord I have been looking for a car. I am moving towards base impala and Intrepid. LS Impala is too much money. I am kinda bored with Honda and Toyota. I think some domestic cars (duh! everything is domestic in these days) are real fun to drive like Dodge Intrepid, Impala, new Status. Ehh! I don't know, this is what I think. Hey cong. on your new Accord and drive carefully.

jackiele · May 2001

Thanks for the letter. As a note, I have a leased 1999 Sebring Convertible which I absolutely love. It's got 36,000 miles and it's time for it to go back. Never had a single thing go wrong with it. I would've bought it out but I have four kids and it wasn't the most practical car for me. So, I would definitely recommend the Intrepid. I understand that you would be bored with the Honda and Toyota thing. Think about the Sebring. A great car and definitely cool. Even my kids thought so.

hersbird · May 2001

I don't really care much about gas mileage anymore, we have a Grand Caravan AWD that is the vacation cruiser and it gets about 22-24 highway. My daily commute is 6 miles RT, 5 days a week. With a little running around, and weekends fishing or hunting, I don't put more then 4000 miles a year on the car I use for work. So even worst case getting 13 MPG city compared to 25 MPG city and paying $1.80/gal (which it is $1.60 here now) thats $22/month more for the gas hog. I guess that means I could buy a feul efficient car for $1000 more then the gas hog and still have the same monthly expense over a 60 month loan. I'll take the engine upgrade over the power convenience group anyday.

PS- I also want one of those "I'm changing the climate! Ask me how." bumperstickers to go with my tire melting, catilitic converter removed, pushrod 360 magnum. Ahh, I just kidding about removing the cat... it's much better to just pound a straight peice of pipe through the middle of it!

buoyant · May 2001

Well, I'm still looking for a 2001 or 2000 Neon 5spd that cares to share gas mileage info with me...

jackiele: I thoroughly understand why you want to share your negative Neon experience with others. I would too. Actually, at one time I was thinking about buying a used Neon (96-98), but was deterred after reading about the whole head gasket thing. It's just not worth the hassle. I do really love the new (2000 and newer) Neon's styling and think the car is an amazing value for the money.

The head gasket problem has been remedied and I really feel it should be at least as reliable as the average car now. The low price of parts and maintenance and the convenience of having a plethora of Dodge/Chrysler dealers (I have no problem driving another 4 or 8 miles for a better service dept) in the Minneapolis area are all important factors in the buying process for me.

Initially, I really wanted to go Golf but it's too costly all-around - not to mention there are only 3 dealers in metro area. Since they started producing them in Brazil, I think reliability is a wild card (read: Mexican built Jettas and Beetles). I don't think VW has as tight of control over its foreign manufacturing operations as say...Nissan does. And the only thing worse (for those of us that like to keep our cars to 200k miles) than owning an unreliable car is owning an unreliable car that's expensive to fix and difficult to service.

snowman: If you're an automatic kind of guy, have you considered the Intrigue? I just talked my parents into getting a new one and they think it's the best thing since sliced bread. With the $2000 rebate and the 60 mo/60k warranty, it strikes me as the best value in the $20k area and it drives beautifully. Makes me think of their old ad slogan: "There is a special feel in an Oldsmobile"...15 years too soon I guess.

I think the biggest pluses with the Camry and Accord is that you can get them with the manly man trans. Apparently, I am one of the select few who'd love to see a stick in a midsize domestic. Oh well...

If I get a better job between now and next month, maybe I'll go for the Accord EX 5spd instead. She's a plenty nice ride and easy on the eyes. As far as the Toyota...I still haven't met anyone hip who drives a Toyota yet. I'd hate to have to battle that nerd stigma all night just because I pulled up in a Camry.

snowman · May 2001

Yeah, I am aware of that rebate but it is not just my kind. Honda and Toyota are great cars but every body has it and to me they are way over boring. In my community I can easly point 20 Accords from my front porch. But there is no Intrepid.
I live in MD -DC area right by 495, traffic is horrible here, you can't imagine. Driving a stick is a suicide.
Unlike some complaints, our Neon has 4K and is running with no ding, no ping. It has 4 wheel ABS, CD, AT, Black and we only paid 11.5K after rebate last year. And this car can beat the hell out of any Civic including EX interms of performance, I don't even consider others.
I drove Intrepid for 1.8K during my Florida vacation and fell in love. Amazingly comfortable, strong nice looking. I think DC is in the right track.

71charger · May 2001

I drive about 45 miles each way to work at about 75mph. On the highway at this speed the car gets 31-33mpg, it varies by tank and how bad I get hosed coming home through the I-70/I-270 interchange construction. If it's just used around town with no highway mileage it gets 26.5-28mpg. I did get over 35 on one long trip. By the way it's a five speed. I just hit 18,000 miles and the car is 15 months old and have still had ZERO mechanical defects. Although, I must admit, there is a slight buzz that seems to eminate from the dash near the base of the driver's A pillar on rough roads that started at about 15K. 99 percent of the time it's not there so I don't worry about it. If it gets worse, I'll pull off the dash pad and us a little foam rubber and cable ties and quiet it right down.

A side note on customer service. When I bought my Shelby Charger new in 83 the trans. would grind going into reverse. Of course I got the "they all do that, it's normal" story. I was told to shift it to first then reverse and it wouldn't grind. This worked so I ceased to worry about it. The first trans. blew up and was replaced under warranty. The dealer had the car forever and still did a crappy job. But it still ground going into reverse. This second trans. lost second gear about 4 years, 11 months and 25 days into a 5/50 warranty. This time I took it back to the selling dealer as it was driveable. The service writer hopped in, started it, went to put it in reverse and it ground big time. He asked how long it had been doing this. I told him since it was new and I had been told they all do it. He said they don't all do it, and that none of them should do it and assured me he would make sure it was fixed right this time. That was the summer of 88 and I'm still driving that transmission. I guess my lesson was check it out when you get the "they all do that" story. I might only be on my second transmission if I'd been a little more vigilant back in 83.

buoyant · May 2001

Hey thanks for the mileage info.

Snowman: I can imagine what the traffic is like on the beltline. I've driven in it during rush hour (I have an aunt and uncle out in Herndon).

Interestingly, a friend of mine moved back to Minneapolis from DC about 9 months ago after commuting on the Maryland side of DC for a couple years. He claims it's even worse here. Of course, he is commuting from the south metro way the hell over to Plymouth (takes him 1-2 hours to drive 9 miles). Idiot...

I'm still of the opinion Chicago has the worst rush hour traffic on earth. I have yet to encounter anything worse (I've driven in LA but not NY).

Rn13 · May 2001

I am a 16 year old who just got a '98 dodge neon. I would like to get the windows tinted. Can anyone tell me how much I should expect to pay? Is it a do-it-yourself job? Any advice would be appreciated. Also, my car has CD changer controls. Would I have to hook up a changer in the trunk? Does anyone know of any cheap good quality CD changers?

eeel · May 2001

hey i saw the pizza guy the other day - he also works full time for a messenger service - this guy does dc to phila 5-7 times a week - said he also does richmond to new york once in a while too - i looked over his neon - he does have that many miles - i got to tell you - i admire this kid - he says he going to be rich and i believe him - he works 50-60 hrs doing the messenger job and does the pizza gig, too - i asked him - what do you do for fun - he said - make money !!! - if he's busy - says he can't spend it - says he's going to own the largest messenger service in the country - ah youth !!! - all things considered - his neon doesn't look to bad - has less dings etc. than you would expect

snowman · May 2001

I don't think that she will visit this site anymore. Funny thing, I visited Accord problems topic before came here and realized two people have fuel sending unit problems eventough first replacement was done under warranty and guess what Honda is not even looking at their face. If their car was Dodge, they would scream everywhere.

vocus · May 2001

Expect to pay $150-200 for a good window tinting place to do your windows. Not too bad, considering it will be covered for the lifetime of the car.

eeel · May 2001

isn't that something - whenever someone with a japanese car has problems - it doesn't seem to count - worked with a girl who only buys HONDA -
he first one had the engine replaced and 2 tranny's in 40k - says she ONLY buys honda because they give her no trouble - she bought another one 2 years back - and guess what - tranny trouble - it does snow here in balto - and those rock hard honda tranny's can't seem to be rocked in the snow or soon they no longer go

she had a gm product before the honda - had to replace a starter - and for he - that was it - she'll never buy american again (her gm had 100k on it)

hersbird · May 2001

I thought Edmunds review of the R/T neon was done well except with relation to value. They fail to mention there is a $1000 rebate (there is always at least a $1000 rebate on neons) and that probably every Dodge dealer in the country will do at least $1000 under MSRP on the neon with little haggling and that puts their loaded R/T at $16500. Thats leather, sunroof, side airbags, and more. A more basic R/T would be $15500. I bet the Nissan SE-R or Ford SVT they talk of waiting for cost so much more then this R/T that you could add a supercharger to the neon and still beat their prices. Or just wait as www.car-truck.com reports the turbo powered 220 HP neon SRT is a go for 2002 or 2003, everybody has better stuff coming, the question is what is best right now.

pat · May 2001

A link to edmunds.com's Road Test of the 2001 Dodge Neon R/T by John DiPietro now appears in the Additional Resources box on the left sidebar of this page.

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

buoyant · May 2001

Overall, it struck me as pretty valid though the complaining about the lack of cruise control on the test car seemed petty. It's not as if they couldn't have gotten a test car with the feature, so I didn't understand the complaint.

Interestingly, I never see such criticism of the Kia Rio (or any of the Kia models) by the editors at Edmunds, and that car isn't even AVAILABLE with cruise control! And, speaking of Kia, did anyone else just read J.D. Powers new Initial Quality Study release?

Dodge, as a make, came in right about average, and surprisingly, Plymouth came in quite a bit above average. I suspect some of the unique-to-Dodge (particularly the light trucks) models brought it's quality rating down to average.

As always, VW (with a reputation in this country for building hip, unreliable cars) came in below average and Kia continues to set new lows (three of the worst four individual models are made by Kia). Exactly many problems can one have with a utilitarian car devoid of any power accessories is a question I keep asking myself.

Also, whoever stated that the MSRP has little bearing on what one actually pays for cars is right on the money. If you can't get a Neon at dealer invoice (I'm not counting the holdback here - they have to make something on the vehicle), you're doing something wrong. Trying to dicker with Honda and Toyota dealerships is like trying to brush your dog's teeth. It's a fruitless battle.

Furthermore, with the exception of Mitsubishi and Mazda, the competitive imports never seem to offer rebates (I do see them sometimes offering special financing deals, but the programs are so short that you pretty much have to buy out of dealer stock to beat the program deadlines, whereas you can do an order-out with the Dodge, get the exact color and features you want, and still count on the perennial $1000 rebate being there at the time of delivery). I.e., a loaded Neon may have a comparable MSRP to Protege, Sentra, a bare-bones Jetta, Corolla and Civic, but I still think it's impossible to find any better value when you look at real, out-the-door prices.

edswords · May 2001

I didnt expect much from the Edmunds review. We all aready know they dislike the Neon and will go out of their way to let every visitor to their website know it.

I dont think they gave the Neons good attributes enough justice. My 2k Neon feels like it was carved out of granite. Its has a high quality solid feeling structure.

It also has excellent predictible handling and when equipped with the 5 speed a competent shifting transmission.

I assume the R/T's handling and shifting are even better.

Yes, its expensive. Its the top of the line Neon and it includes almost all options (including leather). If they were on a budget, they should have tested the new ACR.

I agree with Edmunds knocking the 3 speed automatic and the lack of power windows for the rear doors. But the questions they should be asking are what does a 150 hp Focus cost? or Protege? Or Huyndai? Or Sentra? or Honda? - Oh yeah, thats right, they dont have 150 hp models yet.

How much does a loaded Z24 cost? or GTI? 17500+ dollars!

Edmunds would have all 4 door sport sedan buyers wait for the 2 door SVT ZX3? Would you like to be the first to buy Fords first attempt at 6 speed transmissions and variable valve timing?

I didnt think so!

sergeis · May 2001

I am looking for a car for my daugter who is graduating from high school - and I saw a 1996 PLYMOUTH NEON SPORT 2 Dr Coupe auto, cruise, power etc. with 87Kmiles for $5K.
I have driven Dodge Neon only once as a rental car, was reasonable - my questions are:
Does this seem to be reasonable price? Is there difference between Plymouth and Dodge? Are there some things to check in Neon and particularly in 1996 model? How bad is having only 3-speed automatic? What about fuel economy?

eneth · May 2001

Before you do anything else, if you're at all concerned with her safety, check out the crash-test data on the 95-99 Neons. The cars are rated poor in crashworthiness - you may not want a relatively new, young driver in a car like the Neon. There are much better choices in small cars from a safety standpoint.

http://www.highwaysafety.org

By 87,000 miles, chances are the head gasket has been replaced at least once, hopefully with the upgraded version. If not, it's a common point of failure on all Chrysler 2.0 and 2.4L 4-cylinder engines. If you can't get Chrysler to foot the bill, it'll run you about $700 to have it replaced, assuming no other damage has been done.

There's no difference between the Dodge and Plymouth versions; most of the 2-door Neons were built in Toluca, Mexico, while the 4-doors are more likely to have been built in Belvidere, Illinois.

hersbird · May 2001

actually every small car is horrible when it comes to crash saftey. The only thing they have going for then is active saftey, the ability to avoid an accident with handling and braking, something the neon is good at (even the auto!) The crash ratings are alway assuming hitting something of equal weight and admit if weight were taken into account it would be the single biggest factor over riding all other factors (in otherwords why even do the tests). So if saftey was of primary concern you wouldn't even be considering a small car regardless of how many stars it has. According to injury ratings of the Highway Loss Data Institute for 97-99 models your best choice is the GMC 2500 series 4WD pickup, just don't roll it. The best small car is the Audi A4, good luck finding one anywhere near $5000. After that standout (the A4 gets a 62) the numbers get pretty close to each other with the Saturn SL being the next best in injury ratings. It scores a 101 (the lower the better) to the Neon's 148. BTW the GMC gets a 31.

eneth · May 2001

No, that's absolutely untrue.

It is true that the laws of physics dictate that a small car will come off second-best in a collision with a larger vehicle.

It is also true that some small cars are well-designed, with passenger compartments that stay intact in collisions. Other small cars simply fall apart in collisions, doing little to protect the driver beyond what the Federal Government requires. The Neon (along with some other poor performers like most Kias, Daewoos, etc.) is such a poor performer.

If you're looking for a decent small car with a much better crash rating, along with a far better reliability rating at a price roughly the same as what a used Neon would cost, look no further than a Ford Escort. It protect better in a crash - and isn't prone to the faulty head gaskets, poor window sealing, and other design flaws the Neon is known for.

buoyant · May 2001

I hate to argue with people, but hersbird is right on the money on this issue.

The NHTSA conducts its tests (except for side impact and bumper ratings) by crashing vehicles into FIXED barriers. I.e., the force exerted on the vehicle in the crash is a force equal to the weight of the vehicle.

So, while NHTSA tests might have indicated that Ford Escort's safety cage may survive an impact remaining structurally sound after a collision with a vehicle of comparable weight, it says nothing about how sound the structure would be after a collision with something twice its size...or...how the safety cage would perform if the vehicle were struck from a different angle (I hate to talk Calculus, but there are an infinite number of different angles of which we're speaking).

Interestingly, if you tested these vehicles (the Ford and the Dodge) again using the same exact test conditions (right down to the speed, angle of impact, vehicle weight, etc.), you would still get a different (albeit probably not dramatically so) result.

So, trying to implicitly determine how the Escort will perform when crashing at a different angle or velocity into a vehicle/fixed object of another shape at a different force (the weight and velocity of the other object) by using one of these 2 fixed tests is like trying to accurately determine the specific point at which lightning will strike next Tuesday (I'm only seen that done once before, and in that instance Michael J. Fox had a time machine).

The problem with these government tests is that consumers place too much emphasis on them now and are being lulled into thinking that their vehicle's safety can easily be rated on a scale of 1-5. Unfortunately, car manufacturers know this and "safety" is now more of a marketing gimic than an engineering goal.

I don't know how many people I've heard lately talking about how they purchased the vehicle they did because it had one more star than another vehicle they were considering. If ONLY the real world was that simple!

This opens the way for manufacturers, who are well aware of exactly which crash tests will be conducted on their vehicles and in exactly what manner they will be conducted, to design cars to do well on these fixed tests. The problem, of course, is that very few accidents out are carbon copies of these accident simulations. There are thousands upon thousands of variables out there that affect how a car protects its occupants in a crash. Probably the "best" indicator of how a car will protect its passengers in a crash are the insurance industry ratings for injury claims.

I think they now rate the manufacturers on lichert scales too, if you're a person who likes to keep safety easy-to-understand.

All told, if you value safety above all else, buy the heaviest vehicle with the best handling you can afford. Because the only variables "fixed" in a real crash are the laws of physics.

Otherwise, drive responsibly and buckle-up! Even the smallest car (with the worst gov't crash tests) on the road today will afford its driver adequate protection in all but the most severe accident - so long as that driver remains in his/her seat.

71charger · May 2001

As an example of how different mileage can be, even in the same car, here are my last two tanks. The last one, I drove the car for the entire tank from Frederick, MD to Reston, VA and got 34.2mpg. This trip was a mix of two lane highway, divided highway and stop and go. I was pleased. The tank before my wife drove the entire tank around town. She WILL NOT shift out of third gear. I think she just likes the way the car feels (responsive) this way. She got 26.3mpg. Not bad considering her driving style.

Robberbarron · May 2001

My boyfriend has a Neon and the key keeps getting stuck in the ignition. Dodge says it's some sort of security device. He's had it back to them and they cleaned it out and put it back. It worked for a week then started its tanrums again. Any advice?

-Robberbarron

snowman · May 2001

Is that a AT Neon?

eds2001rt1 · May 2001

What is wrong with these people their review is completely ridiculous first off my r/t hits 60 in 7.6 sec and as i stated before I paid 16400 for mine the rims although hard to keep clean look better then any other car in it class people please remember that when you read reviews never to believe them go out and test drive one yourself just like the movie critics they cant tell what you will like. Have you all seen or driven the new civics they are high priced and dont stack up to the neon r/t at all the sentra is ok but doesnt look or handle as good as foor the focus and protoge------forget about it

eds2001rt1 · May 2001

Hi I ordered an silver r/t with every option except leather for 16490 not
including tax I order it in Nov got it in Dec I had a couple of minor
problems and one major one. the minor ones where the dual tail pipe one
stuck out further then the other and the 2.0 magnum sticker on the back was
peeling off also the idle would fluctuate. they fixed the pipes and the
sticker but said they cant duplicate the idle problem. now the major problem
was the 5speed I was driving fast in every gear and shifting at redline will
when I tried to hit to fourth I heard a pop and started smelling something
burning also counldnt get it into gear without force would not downshift
until rpms were under a 1000 now I am not complaining because stuff happens
and after 2 times they did get it fixed now it has 13000 miles on it I get
an average of 29 mpg and thats with me driving the hell out of it . Simply
said I love my r/t and I don't care what anybody says about it, it is the
best looking sport compact out there it has the most bang for your buck (I
have beaten countless civics,focuses,and just about any other riced out
import including a the new eclipse and a 92 bmw. My point is all cars have
problems but what some people don't realize is maybe its the driver not the
vehicle that cause the problems not always but most of the times. Use good
oil (I use mobil1 syn0w-30) change the air filter( no k and N made for mine
yet) and get all the routine maintanance thats in your book done and 9 times
out of 10 your car will last
sorry so long
Edwin

Robberbarron · May 2001

Yes, it's an automatic.

-Robberbarron

snowman · May 2001

Just my guess that, when shifter gets the P, it might not be engaging properly that makes your key stuck in the ignition. Even slight misconnection can cause this. Shifter may look like in P position but might not be all the way engaged. This is very common proplem on some AT cars. Friend of mine had this problem on his Taurus.

melanie123 · June 2001

I am currently trying to get rid of my Ply Neon (96). About a year after purchasing the car (in 98), the head gasket had to be replaced. The gasket was again replaced a half-year later. Well, now it's leaking oil AGAIN! I no longer have a warranty (expired this year) and refuse to replace it again. Also, the struts are weak.

I have to say, this has been the worst experience I've ever had with a car, and I've always owned small inexpensive sedans. Yuck - now I'm looking at the Kia Sportage-I've not seen any negative reviews in it's message board with regard to maintenance, at least. Good luck to everyone who owns the Neon, I hope you at least have a warranty for these major repairs!

protegextwo · June 2001

Please, please, do yourself a HUGE favor. DO NOT buy a Kia Sportage. I will NOT offer any first hand knowledge. I WILL tell you to due LOTS of research on the Kia Sportage before shelling out your hard earned dollars on any KIA product. Start your research hear at Edmunds Town Hall. If you feel you have been burned by a unreliable vehicle(perhaps a lemon, which does not fairly represent all 1996 Neons?)might I suggest a couple of vehicles with very good reputations for reliability? Try researching the 2001 Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic or Chevy Prism(rebadged Corolla).If you need a small UTE, try researching the Honda CRV or the Toyota RAV or Chevy Tracker. I owned an 1994 Toyota Corolla for 6 years and 65,000 miles, rock solid and no repairs were ever needed. BTW, the regulars at this topic will tell you that the 2000/2001 Neons are much better and are built very well. I believe them.

Respectfully,
Larry

hersbird · June 2001

Wow, what a nice thoughtful post by somebody I used to think was just a Troll! Thank you for some constructive posts in this evil world of Edmunds, LOL. If I may offer a reason for 3 headgasket failures; perhaps when the first one failed the head or block was warped and thus causing the subsequent failures with the improved gasket design, just a thought. A good shop will check such things before just replacing ith gasket, if a dealer did the work they may have just been trying to save themselves some work. If a shoddy shop does the work they may claim you need a new head when you really just need the gasket. It's so nice to have a good chrysler shop that never gives you hassels, maybe thats why I love all the Dodges I've owned over the years.

protegextwo · June 2001

My next door neighbor owns a 2000 Dodge Neon. He likes it very very much, as most of the regulars here enjoy their own Neon's However, he does not currently have internet access. I lurk here once in a while, if I learn anything here, I share it with him. As I get older, I am trying to learn and understand other folks points-of view.

Respectfully,
Larry

beanboy · June 2001

Gotta love those 6 year-old Neons!

1. Erich Heuschele 95 Dodge Neon 1:50.987
2. Ralph Porter 95 Dodge Neon 1:52.267
3. Gene Harrington 95 Dodge Neon 1:51.117
4. Neal Sapp 99 Honda Civic Si 1:52.055
5. Tom Start 95 Dodge Neon 1:51.038
6. Juergen Baumann 99 Mazda Protégé 1:51.324
7. Tom Sager 97 Plymouth Neon 1:53.670
8. Tim O'Linn 98 Honda Civic 1:53.930
9. John Rulin 99 Ford ZX2 1:54.374
10. Dick Ruhl 99 Ford ZX2 1:55.188

hersbird · June 2001

http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz/b060601.htm

Finally you can order the 2002 neon with a 4 speed automatic. Maybe this will be enough to get the rags to cut the neon a little slack, I doubt it.

vocus · June 2001

The first generation Neon came out back in January of 1994? Dodge said it wouldn't matter to potential buyers how many speeds their auto. transmission had, as long as it shifted smoothly. Well, it does matter, and they should have added a fourth gear at least when they redesigned the car for 2000. They would also do better to up their workmanship levels too. But the Neon is a pretty good all around car.

One more thing: Anyone have trouble with a battery in their 2000 Neon? My roommate's battery died one rainy night about two weeks ago. We limped it to the shop after jump starting it, and they replaced the battery, but only at 25,000 miles. Just thought it to be odd. Everyone makes a joke about cars being built on a Monday or Friday, but I sware, I think he got one. He still likes it though, and is going to keep it.

eeel · June 2001

they should have done from day one !!! finally

audybabe1 · June 2001

i am almost 16, and im going to be getting a car soon. I was considering a dodge or plymouth neon. If there is anything i need to know, please e-mail me at audybabe1@hotmail.com Thanks a bunch.

buoyant · June 2001

I clicked on hersbird's link to the 4-spd auto tranny article and happened to notice that almond will be a new color for 2002.

Has anyone heard any other color news? I REALLY love the cinnamon color and fear almond-in means cinnamon-out.

I would appreciate any updates on the color front. I may need to swing into car buying action a little bit earlier than I was intending...

I only wish that candy apple red hue that's been available on the 300 and Caravan for ages (and I now see it on PT Cruisers) would be made available on the Neon. That and a nice set of 5 spoke factory chromes - not the aftermarket BBS ghetto cruisers - would be my dream.

hersbird · June 2001

My favorite color that is available on a production car is the Crimson Pearl on the Caddy Seville wich costs and extra $650. It is close to the $200 extra Inferno Red you are talking about but just looks more vibrant and glossy. In 98 the neon came in 11 colors, one of them was called Strawberry and was about as close to candy apple as a neon got. I don't have any ideas what colors are out to make room for the new colors. The link was saying they got the info from the dealers ordering computer so I bet they could look it up, just beware, they will try and tell you whatever it takes to make you buy now rather then later. If you do want the automatic then no matter what wait and get the new 4 speed, if getting a manual then I bet a better deal could be made on a 2001 -vs- the 2002.

beanboy · June 2001

Now that's a color they should make available again,

-Beanboy

snowman · June 2001

I have been reading many posts from wide variety topics. I can not pass without mentioning some strange discussion happaned in Civic Problems Topic. After couple of postings, some readers post that Neon is a crap that I did not even go into discussion with them who are narrow minded some people think that entire world is turning their Hondas and Honda is the most superior car in the market just because they have purchased. And the funny thing that a short break after these exchanges, one civic owner came up and post that he is happy with his civic even though head gasget was replaced twice!!!
If this was a neon, the same person was screaming all the way to space and telling how bad the Neon is, how low quality the Neon is, the inconveniences that he/she had taken for the repair process etc.
I don't think that there are problematic cars but problematic owners or problematic sick minded potential buyers.
I am former Accord owner, I never bashed someone elses car or desicion and I am truely having problem to understand how group of people can be this much anti-objective and ignorant to other makes/models even for their evaluating purposes. They don't even evaluate, they were born with the idea that Hondas are far superior than anything and if you drive one of them you will be blessed by the society. C'mon get a life, look around what you are missing. Not particularly Neon/Dodge but other manufacturers.

buoyant · June 2001

Snowman, I think what you're getting at is a psychological phenomena known as cognitive dissonance. What I find curious is that it's not just the average Joe that seems to possess it, I've also noticed it reflected by automotive journalists, several of whom write for Edmunds (people who shouldn't actively demonstrate biases toward any manufacturer).

These people actually draw opinions first (which is easier to do and more comfortable), and THEN find as much information as possible which supports these predetermined opinions. If something doesn't fit with this reality (i.e., there is a problem with their "perfect" car), they will dismiss it as a fluke or conveniently forget about it entirely. However, if "someone they know" has a problem with a vehicle for which they possess an active bias against, they can recall with vivid clarity the most minor of problems that owner experienced.

Though I believe there are many Honda and Toyota posters whose purchasing behavior is "driven" by their own cognitive dissonance, I've read a number of postings by GM, Ford and Chrysler owners who are equally dissonant.

I do blame a number of consumer publications - particularly Consumer Reports - for creating armies of automotive idiot savants. I find it very frustrating to "talk cars" with these people because they truly believe that reading the April issue of this publication makes one an expert.

Personally, I think the magazine is a useful tool. It's a good place to START ones research.

As a subscriber to the magazine for the last 13 years, however, I can say that it's certainly not the only resource one should be using to determine the right vehicle for him or herself. And I have two good reasons for this:

First, the articles in Consumer Reports are written by engineers. While I have nothing against people in the engineering profession per se, I can tell you that they are no less susceptible to holding biases than those in any other profession. Furthermore, having lived with three engineering students my sophomore year of college (two of whom thought Toyotas were the best thing since sliced bread), I CAN say that what engineers find cool, interesting and desirable aren't necessarily the same things others find cool, interesting and desirable.

Second, the reliability ratings in Consumer Reports (you know, those 8 pages of red and black circles that when perused by certain people make them believe that they've become auto quality experts) are not statistically significant. I.e., Consumer Reports doesn't use random sampling methods. Instead they send questionnaires out to their SUBSCRIBERS (like me) who, in all candor, do not represent the auto-buying public at large.

Now...do you think the respondents to these surveys (remember, CR reliability ratings are determined ENTIRELY by CR subscribers) possess any biases? Well, I sure do. In fact, I have biased peers that read the automobile articles in Consumer Reports solely because they know what they read will help buoy their own personal biases. Can we say "cognitive dissonance?" What do you think that indicates about the validity of those ratings?

J.D. Power and Associates also does quality and dependability ratings for the automotive industry. Their ratings, however, are statistically significant. This is due to the fact that they use random sampling methods. They send out surveys to verifiable owners of vehicles rated (i.e., the vehicle was actually purchased by, and is registered to, these individuals). I find it interesting that the valid auto quality studies done by Power tend to produce such drastically different results than those unofficial surveys done by Consumer Reports.

Consumer Reports will never tell you this either, but their ratings  because of their unscientific nature - are also a great way for disgruntled buyers to have a voice.

You say you're still upset at Chrysler for that unreliable 1995 Neon you got rid of back in 1997? How dare they sell you such a worthless piece of junk! Well, no worry. It's vengeance time. You can still say you own that (and maybe even a problematic 1999 model too) on the 2001 survey by indicating you had a number of mechanical problems with the vehicle over the last year (even though you sold it 4 years ago). And therein lies the worst problem with CR's "sampling" procedure. It doesn't even verify that the respondent owns the vehicle, making it an extremely easy survey to manipulate.

J.D. Power's surveys (both 5-year dependability and 90 day initial quality) indicate the difference in reliability between most domestic and Japanese manufacturers isn't very large at all. In fact, Oldsmobile and Buick have ranked very high on their 5-year dependability studies - even higher than Honda. This comes as a surprise to a lot of Consumer Reports savants. Then again, most members in the CR club have nary a clue how unscientific the CR reliability ratings are.

With that said, I think Toyota and Honda make a number of good cars - but so do GM and Chrysler. Unless you're comparing the very highest reliability autos (Toyota) with the very worst (Kia), the differences in reliability are far less than most imagine them to be.

Unfortunately, there are a number of people out there who truly believe the difference between purchasing a Honda Civic and a Dodge Neon is the difference between never having a problem ("It'll go 2 million trouble-free miles - just oil and gas") and being in the shop all the time.

It is THESE buyers for whom I feel sorry. Not just because they're so comfortable with their own ignorance, but also because those new Civics are kind of ugly (sorry, I can't back that one up with any evidence).

picturethis · June 2001

Hello all. I changed my name on the board here, it used to be theliz (although none of you probably remember).
Well, I bought a Neon in Feb. 2000 and said I would keep you informed, so here we go:
It currently has alittle over 35,000 miles on it (almost out of warranty--yikes!), it is an automatic ES, with all the luxuries and goodies added. I live in NC near Charlotte (hilly region before you get to the mountains).
Pros and cons:
There really is'nt a whole lot to say, but I'll point out some problems first.
1) I had to take it to Dodge to fix the driver's window seal. The seal let air in and the noise was rather bothersome (especially on the highway). Dodge fixed the seal and now there's no problem there.
2) The seats are okay for short trips but they get uncomfortable after about 4 hours of driving. Not "agonizingly uncomfortable" but you have to fidget with the seat alot.
3) I really wish it had a 4-speed tranny--but i knew what i was buying so I can't really complain. My wife and I just drove from NC to New Mexico and back and the Neon had no problems making it over the Smokey Mountains, and we cruised at about 70-80mph the whole trip. but it would have been easier on the engine with a 4-speed tranny.
4) Sometimes the truck will not open. I use the key-fob and I hear it click, the trunk-lid raises slightly but not all the way. I then push the lid down and use the key-fob again and it opens (sometimes it takes a couple of times). I have not taken it to Dodge for this problem yet but I'll get them to look at before the warranty runs out.
5) Often I get a static-electricity zap when exiting the car. Not a big deal and maybe it's the seat covers? It's worse in the winter of course.
Well, that's about all the bad news. There has no engine or tranny problems at all (knock on wood).
The good news:
Very smoothe ride (except in Arkansas--the roads there are even worse than South Carolina's).
Terrific AC. It get cool very quickly and the defroster/defogger works great. The fan is alittle loud at maximum speed.
Wipers had no problems even in a monsoon-like downpour in Memphis.
No problems passing folks on the highway (especially those slow texans) but the car seemed most comfortable at 70mph and sounded alittle strained at 80mph. But it is a 4-cylinder after all.
The cruise control was worth the price 100% (except in Texas--they drive sooo slow).
The stereo and CD player are terrific too.
Well, that's all for now. I'll let you guys know what's up at 50,000 miles.

Picturethis (aka theliz).

nittanyjag · June 2001

If you have thought about buying a Chrysler product, do yourself a favor, DON'T. My '95 Neon that I purchased new has 62,000 miles on it and is going downhill fast. The car is in impecible condition for the most part, but I just can't keep up with the internal problems. The oil is changed EVERY 3,000 miles and fluids checked religiously. But when the head gasket goes at 60,000 and the dealer tells me that it is normal for a head gasket to go at 60,000 I could not belive my ears. I told him that if this is Chrysler's idea of quality it stinks.

That is the last Chrysler product that I will ever buy.

picturethis · June 2001

The head gasket problem has been well documented by thousands of Neon owners for models before 1998 and D/C should have no problem paying for the fix. Your problem may be with your dealer and not DC after all.

Now other than the head-gasket you state you have had no problems at all for over 50,000 miles.
So, based on the one head gasket problem (which does'nt even affect the 2000 models) you will never buy a D/C vehicle again?!?

Well, I once had a 1986 Toyota Corolla that had some problems with the brakes...should I never buy a Toyota again?

This makes no sense at all.

Besides, a 1995 model with only 65,000 miles? I'm sure you can sell it with no problem.

buoyant · June 2001

I've heard that the static electricity problem is something that has to do more with the materials they're using to make tires nowadays than the cars.

My first car was an 84 Pontiac 6000 (indeed, I was the envy of my entire high school) and that thing used to zap me EVERY time I closed the door. In fact, it got to be so annoying that I just dreaded closing the door with my hand, so I'd use my sneaker instead.

I used to think it was some type of electrical problem (God knows the car had enough of those), but my next car, an Isuzu, was almost as bad. And I think my last co. car, a 2001 Grand Prix was even worse.

If you really find it bothersome, not touching the car (except with your shoe) after your foot hits the pavement is my technique. This seems like the best option if you've got a rental or co. vehicle, in my opinion.

They also make a little strap (so I've heard) that hangs down from the car body and touches the pavement. Apparently, this doesn't let the car build a static charge while you're driving around.

lucine · June 2001

who would buy a 95 Neon. The dealers here eyes glaze over when you drive in to ask and they reply those earlier model are too hard to move. My gasket has gone, things are constantly seeping; the left wheel actually froze up last winter and
had to drive it like that to a service center.. There are some awful fumes drifting into the cabin of the car, and they can't figure out what it is. . Looks great on the outside; how can I wish this disaster on anyone.

majorthomecho · June 2001

Perhaps Consumer Reports relies on something when they send out the surveys about cars. A little something called honesty. Perhaps they hope that people will talk about cars that they still own.

Not having seen the survey, I don't know how they address the potential for abuse.

Has anyone on this board actually participated in the survey and can tell us if there is anything that addresses this?

eeel · June 2001

i agree with both of your posts - especially about how biased/un-reliable consumer reports surveys are - i love how you can have 20 categories - 15 red - 4 half red - 1 clear and give it a black mark !!! - always with amercian cars,too - wonder how they can come up with that average - some kind of weight huh -
and snowman - i have a friend who only drives hondas - her first had 2 trannies and 1 engine replaced in 30k. her 2nd one - a 2000 model - tranny replaced, ac never works right - 25k - swears by them - didn't seem to bother her having her car out of service for 3 months. so i know just what you mean

majorthomecho · June 2001

I have an issue of Consumer Reports that talks about how they come up with the red, black, or no check mark, but it is about as undecipherable as a user's guide translated into English from another language.

Actually, no check mark is worse than the black check mark. Red means better than average overall reliability. Black means average overall reliability. No check mark means worse than average overall reliability.

Dodge/Plymouth Neon

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