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Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008
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Comments
for this discussion, but I am really curious about something.
Why is driving in "D" harmful to the transmission? Automatic
overdrive and lock-up converters weren't even used 15-20 years
ago. How is driving in "D" with a modern automatic any more
harmful than driving in "D" with, say, a '75 Ford that had no
overdrive or lock-up converter? Thanks. >>
Heehee. Funny you mention a '75 Ford automatic, as I'm the proud owner of '76 and '79 Ford pickups, complete with the old C-4 Clunkomatics. To answer your question, I'm not a transmission rebuilder myself and don't know the exact breakdown process of cruising in 3 instead of 4. But I do have some friends (both on the repair side and the parts side) who have told me that a lot of people replace transmissions prematurely, and continually, and at some point a service manager finally picks up on the fact that the owner misunderstood the purpose of overdrive. Often people will consider it an "extra gear" or a "top speed" gear, only to be shifted into at high speeds. I also know a few owners who have done the same thing by shifting out of OD (while towing something around town, or whatever), and either forgot to reengage it or decided they just "liked it better" in D. And sure enough, a transmission rebuild was about six months to a year away. As best I understand by what mechanics have told me, each gear is designed for a particular speed range, which means a particular rotational speed of whatever bearings are supporting that gear (each transmission is a little different), and if the gearsets turn too fast for too long a period, frictional heat builds up faster than the transmission can dissipate heat through the radiator lines and underbody air movement, and it overheats and cooks. I can't draw it out in a diagram, but that's the basic theory. And even though my old 70's F100s only have three forward gears, the ratios are very different from the first three gears in a four-speed automatic. A comfortable speed for my truck's third gear is anywhere from 35-65 mph, while my Taurus's third gear would start to overheat at about 45-60 mph. Plus, the lockup converter aids in both improving fuel economy AND reducing heat buildup due to fluid friction between the two torque converter vanes. Then again, most converters don't lockup until about 45+ mph. Yours certainly isn't the typical American commute to work, but if you're staying under 35 or so, you're probably OK in 3. That's my best understanding of it.
I currently have 261,000 kilometers on the car. I change oil every 3000 miles, turn-up every 50,000 miles, transmission oil every 40,000 miles. No major problems. I am hoping to keep till 400,000 km.
Now the MPG. I do a lot of city driving, door-to-door sales. I thought the worst would be 20MPG..but realized after keeping track for a couple of months I discovered it was worst than that, averaging only 16.5 MPG. I would be lucky to get 250 miles out of a tank of gas. I fill up every 2 days.
I decided to trade this "gas eater" in with 30K miles. The car is in immaculate condition with oil changes like clockwork every 3K miles. I visited Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc..etc. All offered around $10-10.5K. Ford dealers (knowing the value better) only offered $9-9.5K. Let's see...with a purchase price of around $19,100 new (includes $1000K rebate) that would be a trade depreciation amount of $8,600 for trade 16 months after purchase. Private party puts this baby at $11,595 with wholesale at $10,695. I have had advertised for nearly 2 weeks at $11,995 with not a single call. Every dealer tells me the market is soft on Taurus models and there are just to many available for retail at the $10-$12K price range. WARNING - DO NOT BUY A NEW TAURUS. YOU ARE WASTING YOUR MONEY. YOU CAN FIND A NEARLY NEW TAURUS FOR WAY UNDER WHAT YOU WILL PAY FORD FOR A BRAND NEW ONE - EVEN WITH THEIR $2000 FACTORY REBATE MONEY THAT CAN ONLY BE USED AFTER THE CAR IS TAXED. THE RENTAL MARKET IS FLOODED WITH THESE CARS. EVEN IF I COULD SELL FOR $11,595, THE CAR WOULD DEPRECIATE AT A RATE OF $469 PER DAY. HELL, FOR EVEN HALF OF THAT PLUS MY MONTHLY PAYMENT I COULD HAVE BEEN DRIVING A BMW.
So I purchased a brand new 2001 Toyota Camry LE for $19,093 + Aftermarket Leather for $1,195 and took the $1000 factory rebate towards my down. What a huge difference in quality. Quiet, smooth, really nice..oh yes...and a good 425 miles per tank too with mainly city driving. Anyone want a Taurus?
I will never buy brand new Taurus again. What a waist of $$.
and got a 24 vavle 6 cylinder Duratec, leather, cd changer, side air bags, all power, alloy wheels and moonroof, with rebates of course. The others could not touch it, and a much better car to boot. After owned a Toyota Camery, I can now say, thank you ford and I will never buy another Japanese automobile again. They are not as high and mighty as there price attached to them.
http://camryman.org/index.htm
I wound up buying a Spruce Green SES w/ the Duratec, leather, side air bags, 6 disc CD, ...
I liked my Camry, but I'm loving the Taurus.
Just finished driving 500 miles through the Colorado mountains. Great acceleration even climbing up to the 12,000 foot passes. And was able to ride over to Vail with 6 people in the car - never would have tried that in my Camry.
The biggest knock on Taurus is the resale after 1 year (disaster if you've got to sell) - but if you keep your cars a long time (I avg 9 yrs), it's not much of an issue.
I was tempted to wait for a test drive of the 2002 Camry. The looks are improved and the 4 cyl engine gets a nice bump to 157 hp. But there won't be a rebate and the dealers will try to get close to sticker for the first 6 months. Couldn't wait that long.
I think that steves24v does not like Ford in general for him to make all of the statements, that, quite clearly to the majority of us, don't apply to our cars. And trying to compare apples (4 cyl.) to oranges (6 cyl.) is ridiculous at best!
Besides, both the Camry and Accord are very unattractive cars. Fords distinct rear lights alone beat the entire back end of the others. Being a designer, this is important to me.
After the rental for two days and the repair, the total came to 168.00 dollars. STEVES24V, makes some very good points. Although the initial offer seems like a better deal on the Taurus, the resale and/ or trade in is horrible. Over and above that,it's even worse if you've had the problems I've had (posts-992,975,924,748).
I want to support the brand and buy American, but it's getting harder and harder. My 91 Integra went 252,000 miles with only timing belt changes. The 95 Camry we purchased was flawless until it was broadsided and totaled in 1999. The 2000 Sable LS premium has been ok so far ( 8500 miles ) but we'll have to wait and see.
I don't think you can 'give a car to a college student' and write it off on your taxes. You've got to gift to a tax-exempt organization to get a deduction.
Hope you find your sizzle...
RE-sale value of a vehicle takes into account a number of different variables. Reliablilty and durablilty of previous model cars, price of the car, who the car is sold to (individuals vs. fleet and rentals), rebates and discounts offered at the time of purchase, etc. The Accord and Camry have a history of offering reliable cars. Does it mean they are perfect? No. Does it mean they don't break down? No. Been your odds are better then the average car of not having any major repairs and for lasting well over 100,000 miles. What hurts the Taurus is so many are sold as fleet and rental vehicles. These vehicles are sold on the used car market as one and two year old cars with over 30,000 miles and uncertain prior maintence. You seldom see an Accord or Camry in a rental fleet. Plus the previous history of the Taurus models doesn't help either. Again, not all of them were bad (simply look through this post and you will see this) but a higher percentage then the Accord and Camry needed major repairs (just look at he recall of the 3.8 L motor). Also all the rebates offered on the Taurus immediately knock the re-sale value down. I saw an interesting article by the Honda CEO in japan explaining why Honda never offers rebates on their vehicles. He claims they immediately kill the re-sell value of a car because now the price of the vehicle is immediately reduced by that amount. So $16000 vehilce with a $1500 rebate is now worth at most $14500. Take into account that your car immediately drops $1000 in value as soon as you title it and leave the lot. Now you are at $13,500. So if you had a $16,000 car and wanted to trade it in within a week, the most the dealer will give oyu for the car is $12000 (normal trade-in value is much less then the true value) for a vehicle you just bought a week ago for $16000.
Am I bashing the Taurus? No. It is a very nice vehicle (Although I was quite surprised by the limited leg room for such a mid-size car). I found the base V6 to be underpowered. Why doesn't Ford just make the 200HP engine standard? It gets the same gas mileage as the base engine. The styling is much better then the previous model. It does have a little more "flair" then the Camry and Accord. I liked the interior of the Accord the best. It was cleaner. Again this is totally subjective and up to the discretion of the person writing the check.
After all of this I bet you all think I bought an Accord. Nope! If I was the main driver, that is what I would have bought. But my wife liked the Chevy malibu, believe it or not. I have to admit, it's not a bad car at all. Similar room to the above mentioned cars, good power, roomy, comfortable interior. Not as refined as the Accord or Camry. I think Edmunds' review of this car is dead accurate. Why did I buy it over the Accord? Price. It was about $2500 less then the Accord and now that we found Our family is growing by one, I'm glad we made the choice. BTW, I plan to run this car into the ground so re-sale value is not an issue.
Good Luck with your Taurus everybody. Very nice cars. You'd be better off not comparing the car you already purchsed to another one and concentrate on the positve aspects of the Taurus: roomy, good value, good safety record, nice styling, etc.
Hope you guys don't mind a Chevy guy (I never thought I would hear myself say that) intruding on your board. It won't happen again.
Anyway.. does anyone know if the delearship would have actually taken the keyless entry mechanism out of the car or would they have just dissabled it? It has 49,000 miles on it so it is not under warranty. (I suppose if it was under the 36,000 miles they might have had to "fix" it under warranty.) I guess I could have a new keyless entry put in for about $100, but since I will only drive the car for a few months at most it doesn't seem worth it. If the mechanism is still in the car, I would think a Ford delearship would be able to reconnect it for a minimal charge.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Denise
At the time of purchase, I only received one key w/ my new Taurus. Had to go back in to the dealer and wait about an hour while a spare was cut and programmed. Service manager blamed the delay on the computer crashing. When I asked why I hadn't received 2 keys when I bought the car, he said Ford recently changed their practice and only provides a 2nd key "upon request". Wouldn't everyone request a spare key?
I'm pissed that I had to spend a couple of hours on a Saturday to get the 2nd key. I'm also pissed that pissed that the spare didn't come with the remote entry fob. When I bought our minivan from Toyota, we got 2 keyless entry sets w/out question.
Is this just my local dealer being cheap or is it the bean counters at Ford?
If the car originally came with keyless entry, my guess is that the system still works. But you need the keyless entry fob.
Keyless entry is standard on the 2001 SE - don't know for sure about the '99 model.
How cheap, if indeed, Ford is supplying only one set. I guess they traded that for the extra 2 gallon gas tank.
RECALL!!
While I'm on line, I got a recall notice yesterday concerning "the wiper motor park switch (located in the wiper motor) may malfunction and cause one of the following conditions." It then goes on the state three different possibilities that could happen, including smoke and/or fire!!
The recall effects certain 2000 and 2001 model year cars and trucks. Hope mine is excluded cause it was built in April.
Anybody have this done yet? It's supposed to take 1/2 a day, but the last recall only took 15 minutes not the 1/2 that they stated. GRRRRRR!
I still love the Taurus - just turned over 7700 miles last night after over a year.
While I was there I spoke to my salesman about the topic of keys with a new Taurus purchase. He said YES indeed all cars come with TWO keys and TWO fobs. If anyone is paying for them the dealer is ripping them off!!
How's your credit report? That lost set of keys setting in a special spot in the finance guys office?
By the way, do you know there is a cabin air filter in there and you should change it yearly? It's a bit of a pain to replace but not bad if you are handy. I just bought one at the dealer, $32. My Silverado has a similar filter and it's about the same price.
P.S. I got 2 keys and fobs with my car.
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps akin to German dialect Fuppe pocket
Date: 1653
1 : WATCH POCKET
2 : a short strap, ribbon, or chain attached especially to a pocket watch
3 : an ornament attached to a fob chain
www.tauruscarclub.com
215/60R 15 instead of the 205s. Handling and ride are much better.
The deal at BJ's wasnt too bad either. $269.76 for all four. Free lifetime rotation, balancing, and warranty. The sale expires August 31st in case anyone is interested.
Front and rear. The Brakes now squeak at very low speed.
This is annoying. I had the rotors turned when the bakes where done. Seems to be coming from the rear discs. Any suggestions as to how to fix this?
The noise is only coming from the rear discs.
I have never had a car with 4 wheel discs is this a common problem? Other than this the car is great.