Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008

mich2001 · September 2001

Did somebody adjust tranny's bands after 20-30k?
Will this service be help to extand tranny's life or just wasting money and time???

leojeng · September 2001

You shouldn't have to adjust the bands unless you're going through a rebuild. The best thing you can do to increase the life of your transmission is to change the tranny fluid and filter at least every 30,000 miles (or sooner). The transmission for 2000 has been much improved. Ford trannies tend to run hot, which causes the tranny oil to breakdown faster. After the oil breaks down, the transmission will start generating even more heat from friction and begin to disintegrate and that's when damage occurs. If you change your fluid regularly (if the car is new, I would change it after the first 10,000 miles), your transmission should last at least 100,000 miles or more without problems. If you're mechanically inclined, you might think of installing an auxilary transmission cooler (plate type is best, such as from Haynes sold at Pep Boys for $80; Ford also offers auxilary coolers but at higher prices). I'd just stick with changing transmission oil/filter every 30,000 miles (or even 25,000). The fresher the fluid, the longer the tranny will last.
My family owns two T-birds ('93 and '95), a '90 Towncar, and a 83' Dodge Ram Van. The tranny fluids are changed every 30,000 miles on these cars, and we've had no transmission problems with any of these cars. Hope that helps.

bearmaster · October 2001

I have a 97 ford taurus LX. The car has 34,000 miles on it. I like its comfort and the good handling. The only thing that bothers me is the loud noise when I brake in warm weather (above 65 F). It come from the rear wheels and sounds like jet plane flying over. The car also shakes when braking. I had it checked several times, the mechenic told me everything is fine (!!). The brake pad is not worn down. My friend also has a 97 taurus and he's having the same problem. Anybody knows what's causing the noise and how to fix it? It's a good car other wise and I'm really reluctant to get rid of it just because of the noise. Thanks in advance.

mtanner5 · October 2001

lots of us here have had the steering wheel shake problem. Mine is a 2001 that I bought program 12K miles. Noticed the shake and brought it in. They transferred it back and forth from Ford dealership, back to their Chevy dealership (where I bought it) and then to Midas. The night I picked my car up I did not notice it again, but the very next day it was back. Supposed to be the rotors warped?? Who knows, all I know is it still shakes and I am NOT going to mess with these goons at the dealership again over this. I may wait till Xmas and treat myself to new tires and new, slotted rotors which dissipate the heat better - a recommendation I got from this board.

role1 · October 2001

Looking at a 99 used with 20K on it, all the fixens and I do mean all! How do I know which engine I have...the 145hp vulcan or 185hp duratec?

mrl11777 · October 2001

...Open the hood and look at the motor. The Duratec will say, well, DURATEC. The Vulcan, since it is not a Duratec, will NOT say Duratec. The hood is the the big hinged cover in the front of the car (the front being where the headlights are located). Hope this helps you in your thorough, highly researched quest for a used car.

mad0865 · October 2001

On the side of the car it will have a badge that says "24V" (24 valve engine). Plus, the pick up is awesome.

eng6ine · October 2001

If you like power, get the Duratec. The Vulcan is a good reliable engine but just does not have that extra umf you get with the 24V DOHC. When you want to merge on to the highway there is no hesitation what-so-ever.
I found something very interesting while washing my car the other day, the door molding on the drivers side and passenger side are different. I have the SEL, the passenger side has the chrome in-lay in the molding and the driver side has just the plain. I went to the dealer on Monday, they said it must have come through like that, they ordered new moldings for me. I decided that I like the plain molding better than the chrome in-lay. I just hope this is not a sign of things to come. I had a friend look at the car very close to make sure it was not involved in an accident, he is an auto body guy, he did not find anything wrong. He said it was probably an assembly line mix up, the car is silver and would not stand out to much and it doesn't. Other then that the car is great.

danielj6 · October 2001

I usually post messages in the Mercury Sable thread but is so deserted that I find myself
not being able to discuss the car with fellow
owners. Very few Sable owners write there.

The Taurus is a sibling of the Sable so wouldn't
be idea to join these two threads?

shank6 · October 2001

I hate to say it gents, but with 9600 miles on the wifes 2000 Sable Premium LS, the steering wheel is staring to wobble. Must be those fine factory rotors. We've only put 7000 miles on these rotors ad this crap starts again. It just shouldn't happen.

I'm on my third set in our 99 Taurus SE with 52,000. This last set came from Pep Boys. Bendix rotors and pads for 89.98. Screw the Ford rotors.

ezaircon4jc · October 2001

I put NAPA rotors on my 96 Sable about 30k ago and not a hint of a wobble. I did get their lifetime guarnteed ones at $75 a pop. Should I need to replace them again, I will use slotted rotors. When my Lincoln LS needs rotors, it will also get the slotted varity.

markrn · October 2001

I will be replacing the front rotors on my 2000 taurus and want to get opinions as to which are better ie slotted / nonslotted. And which brand most everyone is buying. Thanks for any info:-)

pat · October 2001

I think danielj6 has a great idea. I am renaming this discussion as he suggests. I'll redirect the much smaller and less active Sable topic here.

Thanks danielj6!

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

danielj6 · October 2001

Re: Warped rotors, I've been sensing that whenever I come to a stop the steering wheel on my Merc Sable shakes slightly or wobbles a bit.

Can someone please explain what "warped rotors" are?

This comes at a time when I'm full of pride to own a true blue American car which I drive here in NY with a big US flag. I hope I'm not going to be sorry of my purchase at a time like this.

Regards

ezaircon4jc · October 2001

Happen when the gorilla that rotates your tires uses an impact gun to install youe wheels. That causes uneven pressure on the different parts of the rotor causing them to be out of round. They are supposed to use a torque wrench. Ford also uses a smaller diameter rotor than they really should on the front and that exasperates the problem. I've used NAPA lifetime warranteed rotors on my 4 Sables and didn't experience warpage. I also make sure the gorilla uses a torque wrench.

From your description you have warped rotors.

scdlin · October 2001

Hi everyone I bought a new '01 Taurus SEL about 3 months ago and never have the shaking problems as many of you do. I am worrying if this problem may occur later. So when you started to have those problems? BTW, when I drive alone on highways and keep the steering wheel at the center position, the car will drift a little bit to the left. I don't know if this is because of my weight on the car or should I get the car adjusted? Thanks.

fdthird · October 2001

Folks,

This is not a new problem because I have experienced this on cars for years. Its not like its a problem with Taurus/Sable brakes only but I think an industry problem.

The weight and or cost savings associated with thinner rotors and the use of impact wrenches on tires seems to be the basis for the problems. If you never take the tires off your car I don't think you'll have this problem.

shank6 · October 2001

I'm a sales rep on the road. Most of my driving is on highway, so when I first experienced the problem in my 99 Taurus SE at 15K my wife was actually driving the car back and forth to work. A total of 10 miles. I related to the service tech that I never had this problem with my Acura. He stated the removal of the asbestos and metal from the pads, plus heavy braking will cause the warping. So I had them cut.

It only got worse from there. Replaced the rotors with new ones under warranty at 25K after the wobble came back, and sure enough the problem re-occured at 38k. This time the wheel bearings had to be replaced ($400.00 out of my pocket ) as per the tech, the wobbling could have contributed to the problem. So, after cutting that set, they gave out at 49K and I headed to Pep Boys.

Hey, I love the Sable, and I'll live with the Taurus, for now, but Ford has to come up with something better than this!!!

danielj6 · October 2001

My Merc Sable seems to begin to experience the
problem of steering wheel vibration. It's slight
but noticeable.

If this is a defect that Ford cars had for years
and didn't correct it my next vehicle will not be a Ford.

Originally I wanted a Saturn L300 station wagon but my wife didn't find it comfortable. So I bought a Sable S.W. and had to put up with the grief this particular dealer gave me. Although, I really got
a considerably better deal getting the Merc than the Saturn. Insurance
premiums were lower on the Sable than on the L300.

obiggs · October 2001

I bought a air filter yesterday and the service guy asked if a wanted a cabin air filter? I didn't think it had one, but I bought it anyway. looked in the owners manual, can't find any info. Can someone please tell me if there is one and where is it located, or should I just take it back and get my $18.
Thanks in advance

minnesotaart · October 2001

If there is one (and I am not sure about 1999. I know that it was made standard in 2000) it is located on the passenger side in the cowling. Open the hood and look on the passenger side at the base of the windshield just above the firewall. The black plastic molding (where the wiper arms come to rest) is the cowling. There should be 3-4 black metal spring clips holding the two pieces of the cowling together (a top piece and a bottom piece). Remove these clips by sliding them off (toward the front of the car). Then, turn the plastic screw heads 1/4 turn with a screwdriver (or a dime) to unlock them (if you have them - my 2000 doesn't but I seem to remember them on my daughter's 98 but she's at college and I can't look at her car to check). The top cowling piece should just lift off now. If you have a cabin air filter, it is in the cavity you just exposed. There is a black plastic cover over the top of it. One side - to the outside of the car - is hinged so that it flaps over the side of the filter while the rest fits over the top of the filter. You can just remove the cover by wiggling it out. The filter also comes right out easily - just put the new one in the same way as the old one. You will have to wiggle and bend the black plastic cover quite a bit to get it back in there, but it DOES fit there (it came out of there, right?). Hope all this helps - let us know.
P.S. - you obviously didn't get the filter from Ford - they soak you about $36-$38 for a new one! I have gotten mine for as low as $12 (PEP Boys).

role1 · October 2001

I have a 99 Taurus SE with Duratec engine. I have seen some Tauruses with Dual Exhaust and some without. What's the deal. There is a shop down the street that does custom exhaust jobs...and I was toying with the idea of getting it done.
HP increase? Why some with dualies, some not?

Matt
USN

ezaircon4jc · October 2001

Ford dropped the duals on the Taurus in 98, I believe. Whatever year the HP went to 180. Mercury kept the duals until they started de-contenting in 2000 (rear drum brakes instead of discs, single exhaust vs. duals, etc.). The dual exhaust should be good for 20 HP as the dual equipped models have 200 HP. BTW, I still love my 96 Sable with 103k on the odo. It just isn't as much fun as my Lincoln LS!

Oh yea, watch out for warped rotors. When the steering wheel starts vibrating during braking, they're warped. Just buy a good set of aftermarket rotors and warped rotors will be a thing of the past. That is, as long as the tire gorillas use a torque wrench when rotating your tires!

mtanner5 · October 2001

on my steerling wheel shaking problem. I bought mine nearly new at 12K miles with the problem. The dealer only had the tires rotated and rotors machined. They put bad pads back on, and a few days later the shaking was back. I went to a mechanic who put new pads on, re-did the rotors ($120) and that stopped it for a few more days, now it is back again.

Guess I'll just have to cough up $$ for new aftermarket rotors, too.

Question, though - I asked both mechanics about using a torque wrench as opposed to the other thing, and they said that would be even MORE uneven - and that although the lugs do go through the rotors there is no way that could cause warping. I am so confused and disappointed with Ford over this - otherwise I love the car.

role1 · October 2001

Thanks for the info. I looked through JC Whitney,couldn't find anything applicable. I wonder how much Dualies would cost.

427435 · October 2001

I would go somewhere else for brake and tire service if they're not using torque wrenches. Here in Minnesota, the last 3 places I've bought tires have all used them---probably to avoid lawsuits if a wheel comes off. It also can't hurt the brake rotor problem either. However, I think Ford's problem is more related to a cheap single piston brake caliper. The brake pad opposite the piston gets dragged to the rotor on some kind of metal slide (different designs on different vehicles). Then when the piston is let up, only the piston side moves away from the rotor. The opposite side "hangs" against the rotor and heats one side leading to warpage. When you're doing a brake job on a Ford product, clean up and perhaps put some high temp lubricant on whatever the caliper slides on.

This and turning new rotors (after they had taken a set) has stopped (at least for a while) the problem on a Topaz.

dlhajek · October 2001

my 2000 SE pings incessantly at all ranges of rpm/speed. it also feels like it's straining. i'm putting in name brand 87 octane. there is a significate improvement using higher octane but if it's supposed to run on on 87 than it should.
any one having similar problem?

dtownfb · October 2001

I've noticed much of the recent conversation has been on warped rotors. This problem is hardly isolated to the Taurus/Sable or even Ford products. Someone alluded to possible overtightening the lug nuts as a possible reason for this. and this could be part of the problem. It seems to me it could also be that the rotors are thinner and with hard braking or repeated braking, like in city driving, can also attribute to this problem.

My question is for the people having problems with their rotors, what kind of driving do you do and how many miles do you have on the vehicle when you started having this problem?

mrl1 · October 2001

I have also been experiencing pinging with me 2000 Taurus since last Nov. I have had it to two different dealers now numerous times. I've taken them on drives to confirm my problem which they agree is there but have been unable to correct. They used carbon disolvent in the cyclinders which cleared it up for a week. Ford Techline suggested I try 94 octane and read my owners manual on pinging. The manual states some ping is normal but that excessive pinging can cause severe engine damage. The higher octane proved to stop the pinging and the dealer suggested I "shop" around for gas brands or higher octane. The other dealer told me never to use 94 Octane due to additives that carbon up the cylinders. Ford Tech is saying it is not a problem. Since I know pinging causes piston and ring damage over extended periods, I feel Ford is betting on this damage to take place after the warranty period is over. I'm very concerned.

minnesotaart · October 2001

What engine do you guys have? It's a known problem with the Flex Fuel engine.

There has been a recall on fuel delivery with that engine (data from AllData):
#00E10 AUG 00 Recall - Fuel Delivery Module Replacement

And a Technical Service Bulletin that applies to both the Flex Fuel 3.0 and the regular Vulcan 3.0 but not the Duratech 24 valve 3.0 (data from AllData):
#00-25-5 DEC 00 Engine - Spark Knock During Heavy Acceleration

Tell your dealer to show you these if they apply.

smartguy8514 · October 2001

hi, my friend that i go to high school woth has a 2001 mercury sable ls premium with 16 thousand miles and when he drives sometimes white smoke comes out from the muffer. i know that this is not normal and he took it to one dealer and they said that it was the transmission but then he took it to another dealer and they said that it was something that has to do with the head gasket. so my question is that do you guys know what could be the problem?

427435 · October 2001

dtownfb: In my case with the Topaz, the brakes get very light usage. I drive 65 miles to work on divided 4 lane---first set of brakes pads lasted 165,000 miles.Pulsing started way before the brake pads wore out.

That's why I think alot of the problem is the brake caliper assembly not releasing because of a piston on one side only. That and cheap-[non-permissible content removed] rotors.

mclarenr · October 2001

I have just read the posts on the concerns with valve clatter with the 2000 Ford Taurus with FFV engine. Interestingly, as I am writing this mail I have my car in for service and one of the issues I want remedied is severe valve clatter under acceleration or load.

I have been to two Ford dealers with this issue and the first dealer retarded the timing of the engine by 3 degrees and blamed the gas that is used in the southern US states. There was no improvement to the clatter and the only thing that gives an improvement is higher octane fuel.

After reading the posts in this forum today and since my car is currently in for service with the clatter being an issue that is to be resolved, I called the manager of my local Ford service department and the following is a summary of the discussion.....

-As regards ford recall, #00E10 AUG 00 Recall - Fuel Delivery Module Replacement. A: This is simply the replacement of the fuel pump which was done on my car in April this year. (This had no effect on the clatter).

-So what are they doing to resolve the clatter this time? A: They are reprogramming the engine processor and also decarbonating the engine.

-Will this problem be a recurring issue with my car? A: Yes it likely will as the clatter is mainly due to the composition of the fuels in the local states (Texas in my case).

-Who has to take responsibility for this issue once the guarantee period is out? A: You (the customer) do. You will need to have the engine decarbonated periodically (every 25k to 30k miles) and this will cost 60 to 70$ each time.

-So, if Ford do not consider this issue their responsibility then why are you reprogramming the processor and decarbonating the engine now? A: Well, Sir, this is because we are trying to help you out and since your car is only one year old.

-I forgot to ask why did they make the recall
#00E10 then?

-They also added that this issue of valve clatter has not only been seen with the Ford Taurus FFV, but with other Ford vehicles, e.g. Explorer and Mustang and they insist that this is an issue with the fuel compositions in the loacal area.

Anyway, take their answers as you will, but I certainly didn't expect to hear anything else. Ford is hurting as it is with the Firestone tyre situation.

mrdetailer · October 2001

usually means excess water is getting into the engine. Most likely source head gaskets.

mrl1 · October 2001

Mclarenr,,,I found your post very interesting. I am surprised your dealer has been that upfront with you since 2 dealerships told me this pinging is normal. By the way, I have the standard 3.0 Vulcan, not the FFV engine. We must have the same fuel in Pennsylvania as you do in Texas.

The "Decarbonating" will NOT last 25-30K. Mine helped for one week. Running 94 Octane seems to help for awhile also. Not sure why, unless it has some cylinder "decarbonizing" effect since I have been told the higher rating fuels use more ethanol. I heard ethanol causes damage to fuel injection parts after long term use though.
I have asked for a letter stating that Ford agree to fix any ring/piston problem that may occur for as long as I own the car since this is "normal". They have not responded yet.

mclarenr · October 2001

mrl1, the two dealers weren't as upfront as it seems from my summary in my posting, but they infact made those statements after a deal of persistent questioning from me. In fact the second dealer (where my car is being serviced now) originally only said that they had reprogrammed the PCM and it was only through calling a second person at the dealer that the fact that they had decarbonated the engine emerged after I started pushing the issue about pinging being a known problem with the Vulcan engine.

The first dealer who retarted the timing by 3 degrees to counteract the pinging said, as you have been told, that some pinging is normal. I have owned a wide range of cars and know when there is an abnormal degree of pinging and that would apply to my Taurus at the present time.

One issue in my favour is that it is at least pretty flat here in Texas. When I took the car for a drive in a hilly part of Oklahoma I thought that the engine was going to burn out!

I am not sure why, but I also get a significant improvement if I use 89 octane instead of 87. I My explanation for this is that it enrichens the fuel/air mixture so that it combusts less explosively with the side effect being less complete combustion so that an increase in carbon deposits will occur...but, not completely sure. I have not been prepared to go as far as 94 octane gas because of the price premium and fear of risking damage to the engine, although I have no knowledge indicating that that may occur. I can also say that Chevron regular causes less pinging than Exxon regular, so fuel types do come into it.

I think that you shouldn't hold your breath waiting for that letter. Look at the wrangle that occured in the Firestone affair and the pinging certainly isn't life threatening. The only thing that will get the giant to budge is if there is a sufficiently good marketing case in initiating a recall or better said that there is sufficient reason to believe that not intitiating a recall would lead to a significant and negative marketing impact.

From our mail exchange in this forum it has become apparent that we (two Ford customers) are not being told the same story by Ford regarding this particular issue. Well, the issue hasn't perhaps become significant enough for a company directive to be issued that ensures that all dealerships are on the same page as to how to BS the clientelle in this matter.

miken16 · October 2001

I also have a 2000 Taurus with a 3.0 engine pinging problem. it started pinging about a year ago around 13K and I've been running 89 octane since to minimize the ping. within the past month it has started to ping even on 89. I live in the DC area where it's fairly flat and it's starting to ping nearly all the time. it's been to the dealer several times and they have taken the same actions, reprogramming, decarb, and even tried changing the fuel filter. at this point they are quoting the owners manual and saying that some light knocking (pinging) is normal and will not damage the engine. I'm not sure how they determine light and heavy ping. The dealer is being sympathic, but at this point doing nothing to fix my problem. they don't recommend using 94 since it burns cooler and can increase carbon build up. I've asked them to check with the tech rep and see about lowering the octane rating in the PCM programming. thanks for posting your problems, it's nice to know that I'm not alone.

mclarenr · October 2001

Well, I got my car back from the service dept. at the local dealer yesterday and asked in more detail exactly what they have done about the pinging and the following is a quoted directly from the labour report sheet:

"DRIVEABILITY MISC. VALVE CLATTER.... PERFORM WDS EEC TEST, DATA LOGGER DIPSLAY TEST. ALL SENSORS NORMAL, RECONFIGURE PCM TIMING AND OCTANE RATING. DECARBON ENGINE"

According to the service engineer Ford periodically release and install new 'firmware' if you will for the PCM. Interestingly they appear to have performed the octane rating adjustment that you mention when they reprogrammed the PCM.

Well, the car is now very smooth and clatter free, but let's see how long it will remain so. Ford themselves did warn me that this will likely be a recurring issue and I will need to get the engine decarbonised regularly. If that becomes the case then I consider it unacceptable to load the customer with that responsibility and that Ford should definately address the issue in a more serious and responsive manner.

I'll let the forum know how it goes.

obiggs · October 2001

You the man! I installed it in 10 min. Thanks Pat

greg126 · October 2001

We purchased a new 2001 Sable LS this past weekend. I was reading about problems with warped rotors on the Taurus. I noticed that the Sable has slotted front rotors (according to the documentation provided by the dealership). I was wondering if other Sable owners had noticed a similar pattern, or does this primarily appear in the Taurus. THANKS!

427435 · October 2001

I watch the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis board also. Guess what---owners of these cars (2000 and 2001)seem to be having the same problems. Wonder if it will take Ford Motor Company as long to admitt to the problem and get a fix in place as they did on the plastic manifolds for the 4.6 V-8.

bolivar · October 2001

3L motors seem to have a known pinging problem over the last 10 or so years, per the discussions on www.fordranger.com

And only higher octane gas helps.

So, don't expect Ford to engineer this problem out of their motors.

eng6ine · October 2001

Do the people that are having this problem with pinging have the 3.0L 12V Vulcan engine or the 3.0L 24V DOHC Duratec engine?

minnesotaart · October 2001

The Duratech doesn't ping - - - it screams! :-)

frank58 · October 2001

I have a sable wagon with the 3.0 engine. It has been great the car is a 96 and pinging has not been an issue.
The octane I use is 87, I am located in the Boston Ma area.

mich2001 · October 2001

Could somebody recommend to me a good aftermarket rotors(brands and sources) and front pads?

ezaircon4jc · October 2001

I've had good service with NAPA rotors and pads. IIRC, the "lifetime" made in America rotors are about $75 each and their "lifetime" carbon pads, less than $100. The imported from China rotors are $40ish each and their less expensive pads, around $35. This is in the southern part of The Peoples Republic of California.

seelig · October 2001

my kid wants to buy a Sable, it's a '96 with 90K mi. 6cyl., 4 door. it was a government car and they are asking $4,000 for it. i am told that it was kept up maintenance wise, but i'm totally lost when it comes to what the car might be worth. any help would sure make me happy....
thx

ezaircon4jc · October 2001

Having driven a few "G" cars, I would go over it with a very fine tooth comb. Edmunds should be able to give you an idea of the value. Some of my fellow gummint employees don't respect "G" cars very much.

e_sable · October 2001

I have a 2000 Mercury Sable LS 3.0 24 valve engine and lately I have been having problems at
times when starting the engine. When the car is
started it is like the engine is flooded and then
will start. Is anyone else experiencing this problem. I am taking my car to the dealer tomorrow to see if they can figure it out. Please
let me know if ya'll have had this problem either
with the Sable or the Taurus. Thanks

Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008

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