Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008

upsetter1 · April 2003

There are talks about killing Mercury. But Mercury is making money. PAG instead is in red and draining money and nobody tells lets kill (sell) Volvo or Jaguar or lets kill SAAB, that is kind of Olds bad, for that matter. I think Ford made a big mistake buying all that PAG brands instead spending money on core NA brands. Who needs so many premium brands ? Now Lincoln and Merc have no car line up, Ford cars quality suffered, Taurus was virtually abandoned.

deciding3 · April 2003

I'm looking to buy a new car and found a 02 maxima se with 32k miles for 15K (cloth and stereo is not bose! Is that a good price?
My other options are 2002- 626/galant 28K miles at 10K
or 2002 -taurus/malibu at 10.5K , 25K miles.
While, I realize that these cars are not really comparable and that the maxima is a better car, which do you guys think is the better deal. Price is quite important to me, but i can spend more if I know it will work out better in the long run.
thanks!

edmund2460 · April 2003

My trans died like that around 80K. One day it was fine, the next morning it didn't move. I had mine rebuilt at AAMCO too, and it still jerks once in a while. I would advise getting their extended warranty for a couple of hundred bucks extra I believe, if you plan to keep the car.

Mine is for sale. I have a new Camry XLEV6. BTW, I went to a Ford dealer to check out a late model, and would you know that the salesman did not know what I was talking about when I asked to drive a Duratec. He had to go check with the mgr. and came back saying that they didn't get any because it was 'price-prohibitive'!! This is a large volume dealer.

upsetter1 · April 2003

I bought both new Sable premium top of line and Camry XLEV6, also top. I got 5000 off from Sable and 4000 of Camry. Very similar vehicles in all aspects, though Camry feels more luxurous and higher quality interior. Sable is more sporty and you get better feeling og road. And Camry was more expensive, 7,5 thousands more. Considering even quality it is still way too much.

On both vehicles I bought exteneded warranty. On Mercury in was about $1000 for 5/100,000 not bumper to bumper, but still covering all crucial parts incluing AC and brakes.

On Camry in was about $700 for same extension but bumper to bumper.

A very good idea to buy extended warranty. BTW friend of mine has Maxima and transmission died at 70,000 miles. If you take Taurus take with 24 valve Duratec. If you are comparing with Maxima don't even consider Taurus with basic engine.

edmund2460 · April 2003

There's a small problem about saying the Camry, or any other similar car, isn't worth 7.5 thousand more (assuming that is a good measure, when you consider rapid depreciation etc on a Taurus) - there are more people every year preferring to spend that difference. I believe that when people vote with their pocketbooks that tells you something - whatever that is.If they are being stupid then they won't stay that way forever. Ford won't be losing money as they did the last two years and Toyota and Honda will be cutting back on production. So far the trends don't show that is happening. Ford and GM are in survival mode for the next few years.

BTW, I felt that way too some years ago when I bought a Taurus wagon and a Sable. I lost all of this price difference in repairs. Now my Sable at 115K is worth less than a Honda Civic DX of the same year and same mileage. I have about $21K in the car over 1o years.

I know the answer will be that the new cars are better, but we will have to wait and see....

I'm making this point only to point out that stats tell different stories from our subjective opinions. I'm not car bashing or trying to change people's choices.

sugarcookie · April 2003

I have a '98 Taurus that the ABS light keeps going on sporadically. When I shut the car off the light resets itself and comes on whenever it feels like it. I don't notice a difference in the braking. Does anyone have any ideas what the problem could be? Also, I notice a "thumping" in my front end when accelerating or braking at around 15-20 miles per hour. I've tried changing the tires thinking that it might be a bent rim, but it doesn't seem to help. Had the balancing checked and that is not the problem. I'm at a loss. Any suggestions?

Sugar Cookie

venus537 · April 2003

you and i know the maxima is a better car anyway.
better than a taurus (regarless of its engine). go with the maxima. it's reliability is top notch and there will be much more demand for the max if you decide to sell it later.

upsetter1 · April 2003

Camry is not a paragon of reliability eigther. Transmission is bullet proof right. But engine can require early costly repair and there are other things that break. Of course it is not statistics because people that I know and have problems are not statistics. CR is statistics.
But look at latest Motor Trend one year report. They replaced oil and AT gaskets on almost new Camry !

But I will report how is going on with Sable Premium and Camry XLE, just for comparison. XLE has currently about 4,000 miles and Sable - 11,000 miles. No problems yet, recalls or dealer trips except of oil chane yet.

I can tell you that XLE is not very popular, thats why they sold it with big discount despite all the high quality (that is actaully on Lincoln level). Because asking price was about 30 grands and for that money you can buy something more exiting.

With Ford actually problem always was that they didn't pay attention to product much, at least in NA. They were more busy with political games inside company, buying those European brands, they just squandered hard earned money IMHO.

deciding3 · April 2003

Thanks for the info guys!. I have dropped the mitsubishi galant, 626 & taurus from my shortlist.
So only the maxima and malibu are left to decide between! I test drove both today and the malibu was better than I expected. With the price at 10K for a malibu 2002 used with 27K miles and 15.5K for maxSE 02, my mind says malibu cause its much cheaper. but my heart says maxima! Which puts me in a dilemma!
While, price is certainly a big factor to me as I'm just getting out of college and also I don't really need a maxima type of car right now. But I can get the maxima through financing if the deal is good and if it'll be a better and more economical car in the long run. I wanted to know what you guys thought about it as most of you own maximas. Also, would you know anything about the difference in insurance rates for the 2 cars. I'm thinking that the maxima will have a much higher premium.

edmund2460 · April 2003

i guess you have the cars to make the comparison,even if it's only a comparison. Keep us posted. The problems on my Fords have occurred after 70-80K. The miles before that are generally trouble free for most cars made nowadays. I can say that Ford still doesn't get the fit and finish right. The SES I test drove, 2000 model I think, still had the ill fitting glove compartment door like my 89 and my 93. Yes Jac Nasser squandered this company's money on non-core assets/

edmund2460 · April 2003

do you have - V6 or 4? I have the new VVT-I 210hp V6 with 5 spd Auto. Do you know if this has a belt or a chain?

wijoco · April 2003

First, try posting under the "Taurus problems" list. You'll get more response. Your ABS light sounds like the module is getting incoherent signals from the wheel speed sensors. When the ABS light comes on, the module has shut itself off. This resets when you turn the car off. The only way to knoe for certain what is wrong is to take it to a dealer and pay them around $60-75 to read the ABS module codes while parked and while driving. If you're unlucky like I have been with my 97 LX, the tech will come back and tell you that the module is giving him too many conflicting codes and thus is pronounced DOA. Hope not, because that module is $600 and nobody else makes it yet. You may be lucky and a good cleaning of the wheel speed sensors may do the trick. As far as thumping noise, check the Problems list as there have been a lot of posts on this topic. Could be a lot of things, but one cheap and easy suspect to eliminate first is the parking brake adjuster bushing: it's a round foam donut on the parking brake adjuster located on the chassis directly underneath the driver's seat. It's a real turd of a design because it tends to rot, expand, and blow off after a few years. Then the parking brake adjuster swings freely under the car, smacking every piece of metal it can reach when you stop and turn. It's a cheap and easy fix, though.

badgerfan · April 2003

You really ought to drive the used 02 Taurus before you decide not to buy it. You might be very surprised. I think Taurus is a very underappreciated car. You can get a solid, tight, quiet Taurus and $5K less than the Maxima, with 7k less miles. $5k is a lot of money for someone just getting out of college. I am sure you could put that $5k to good use.

My 2000 Taurus has been perfect so far at 25K miles. (And besides, the Maxima is kinda ugly)

upsetter1 · April 2003

You probably drived base Taurus. Try with Duratec. But it will not be so cheap though like Taurus with Vulcan, it is not rental car eigther so is difficult to find.

Malibu is pretty fast and agile, but not refined, especially engine is old tech 3.4L. Taurus is more refined and modern vehicle for that matter. You can try also Old Alero. It looks more sporty and cool. Basically they are the same vehicles with Malibu, but Malibu is more like family sedan and Alero is more personal car, esp coupe and interior is more driver oriented. I even wanted to buy Alero one time, but didn't like how it was executed and outdated platform that feel unrefined.

I didn't drive Maxima, I know that it has excelent engine. But rear suspension is not independent. It has Stewart-Russel multi-link beam rear suspension what is a torsion beam-axle or something like that. So handling may be not so good. But it should be real fast, thats why people like it. I don't know really how it feels though.

edmund2460 - All XLEs have V6, it is most luxurous Camry, and more luxurous than any Taurus and Sable. Even interior is desined differently. Package that we choose has everything including traction control and side airbags. Actually I don't own Camry. I bought it for my close friend. He is shy and don't understand much in cars so I had to do research, find deal, negotiate, shoose warranty and all that stuff. He even asking me when and where to go for oil change and so on. Chain wasn't a priority, but you can look into maint guide. Typically you have to change time belt around 60,000 miles with water pump. We bought vehicles the same week, both new and 2002. So yes I will keep you guys informed. But I drive more miles. He commutes in his older '97 Camry that was laden with problems.

s852 · April 2003

There are some, but not many. If you spend the time to look for one, you can find one if you want it badly enough.
Some Camry XLEs are 4 cylinders.

upsetter1 · April 2003

"Production of the Ford Taurus will end at a yet-to-be-determined point after the Futura arrives, Ford Division President Steve Lyons says. As the Taurus winds down, sales will shift from retail to fleets. "

from http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=43345

pjreporter · April 2003

I'm a reporter with a major business daily seeking mercury sable drivers to comment on their experiences with the car for a weekly auto feature.

If you're interested in talking for 5 minutes about the car, please email me at lanetef@yahoo.com

danielj6 · April 2003

Ford is replacing the Taurus around 2005, I've been wandering whether the manufacturer will also retire de Sable.

Has anyone read or heard something on this topic, and if yes where?

dmcgowan · April 2003

I am currently test driving a '97 Sable GS wagon (third row seat, ABS, 3.0 SEFI V6). I have it until Monday night (today is Saturday). I intend to have a used car check performed at a local dealer/mechanic. Can anybody offer any thoughts on what to look out for on this car? I've seen complaints about transmission problems. Does anyone have any info to suggest how widespread the problems are? Consumer Reports gives the tranny an "Average" rating. Any other potential trouble spots? BTW, the car has 63,000 miles on it, and has an extremely well-maintained interior and exterior. The current offer on the table at the dealer is $6600 out the door. Any thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks!

blueguy1 · April 2003

I am currently considering buying a new 2002 Ford Taurus. The dealership currently has 5 2002 models that were never sold. All but one of the cars has a MSRP of $23,625. I haven't contacted the dealership yet. I'm going on a very limited budget. Any ideas on what would be a fair price? thanks...

badgerfan · April 2003

Given that you could likely get an '03 Taurus with an MSRP of about this for likely under $19K and maybe even close to $18K with the $3K rebates in effect, I would expect you could maybe get down to $16K or so, assuming you do not use Ford Credit, as then the rebates do not apply.

I would start out low, maybe $14K-$15K or so, and see how they respond. If you hold tight and don't budge too quickly, you may be surprised what a good deal you can get. After all you are really have the advantage here, especially when the dealer has 5 still on the lot, and is likely very anxious to unload them.

Good luck!

blueguy1 · April 2003

Thanks for your reply badger. I sm not sure if Ford is offering 0% for 60 mos. on Taurus in my area and if they are they may not offer on on 02 models? If they are i would rather go that route. I'm a recent college grad. so should be eligible for the $400 discount. Any specific problems with 02's? This model has the 24V Duratec, with moonroof and adjustable pedals.

badgerfan · April 2003

You probably won't get the price down as low if you take the 0% financing as the $3K rebates/0% are an either or choice, not both. I believe the 0% financing is available across the country if your credit is good. I would be really surprised if the rebates or financing do not apply to leftover 2002 models.

I have a 2000 SES Duratec and it has been excellent. No defects, only one minor recall for a windshield wiper potential problem. I do not think there are any glaring reliability problems in the current generation of Taurus. Very little complaint activity on this and on the Maintenance and Repair Taurus boards is a good sign.

blueguy1 · April 2003

What kind of mileage do you get with the Duratec? I currently own a 95 Lumina with 116,000. I will probably be trading it in for the Taurus.

badgerfan · April 2003

On my daily commute to work which is 22 miles roundtrip, about 14 of which is mostly on urban freeway (Milwaukee) which become occasionally congested and the other 8 miles on city streets, I get 21-24, depending on how easy I take it on the pedal. The Duratec does tempt you with the urge to exercise it on the on ramps!

Highway mileage I would guess would top out at about 28-29 max. The only full highway test I did was last winter and got 27 with fairly cold temperatures and fairly strong headwind on the first part of the drive, running 65-75 most of the time.

marsha7 · May 2003

noticeable deficit in the Sable headlamps???...I have noticed for over a year that when I turn on the headlights in my 2000 Sable, the actual amount of light emitting is quite mediocre... driving down a dark country road at night and even the high beams, while aimed correctly, hardly illuminate the roadway at all...my 2000 Intrepid, OTOH, illuminates well on low beam, and lights up like daylight on high beam...I have changed the battery, and I also put in PIAA bulbs, but the actual amount of light just seems quite poor, and the roadway is illuminated, but not that well...I find it hard to believe that Ford would not know how to design a simple headlamp on a vehicle as new as 2000, whereas Chrysler makes me feel like I have airplane landing lights on the Intrepid...has anyone else noticed this problem, and is there a solution for it, since it appears that bulbs and new battery are not the answer...

caesarslegion · May 2003

My girl friends taurus does the same thing. When driving at night we try to use the high beams when we can. My old car has better head lights than her new one lol. Im not sure how bad our taurus is to yours though. You cant even see good with the high beams on?

jtkz13 · May 2003

I also noticed the headlights are not extremely bright, but mine is lowered so I'm sure that affects the beam effectiveness. I've heard good things about the Silvania Silverstar upgrade bulbs. Just don't go higher than the stock wattage, it will in the long run (or possibly short) burn out the plug socket and you'll have to get a $30 part from your dealership. Trust me, I had to replace both sides, and then I put the stock bulbs back in and it's been fine since.

danielj6 · May 2003

Hi all!
I too noticed for a quite a long time that the headlights on my 2000 Sable aren't all that bright. I guess neither was I when I decided to buy Ford. I have some gripes regarding my last visit to the service department. But that is besides the point.

To supplement illumination I turn on the fog lights. Pretty mediocre alternative.

badgerfan · May 2003

I think the headlights are fine. No complaints at all. They are much better than our '96 Caravan, which was criticized in CR when they reviewed it as having less than adequate headlights.

I believe I read somewhere when I was researching before buying my 2000 Taurus that they had improved the headlights quite a bit from the last generation.

upsetter1 · May 2003

Along with weak brakes it is another well known weakness of 2000 Taurus/Sable (may be of '96 Taurus also). I read about it in some reviews. I have no problems because am driving in town or freeway so don't really using headlights.

In general clear-lense headlights are less effective than old fashioned headlamps. It was a matter of fashion when they changed more effective old Taurus headlamps to the clear-lense ones in '96 Taurus. There was so heated debate inside DN101 team about new lamps that leading headlight engineer resigned after all, but because at the time Honda Accord had already clear-lense headlamps it was decided to go in the same direction to beat 'em (and Toyota for that matter that continued to use old approach even in '97 Camry, what is a proof that it is not fashionable headlights or flamboyant style that sell midsize family car).

But anyway, even clear-lense headlamps can be excelent, no question about it. It is more about engineering - how good are software and engineers, how much resources and time you have, what are specs and etc.

danielj6 · May 2003

Let me say it one more time, the headlights (low beams) on my 2000 Sable aren't strong enough. I often need to turn on the fog lights to supplement illumination of the road. I have 20/20 vision and don't have problems driving at night.

Regarding brakes, I don't notice any difficulties with mine. I read in reviews that they feel "spongy", I believe is the description I saw.

landru2 · May 2003

Are you sure your lights are aimed properly? If your fog lights are illuminating the same section of road as your low beams it sounds like something isn't aimed right.

badgerfan · May 2003

Fog lights will only illuminate at most the first 5-10 feet of road low and immediately in front of the car. This area is an area that headlights do not normally illuminate much as any object you get this close to at night you should have seen coming from further away.

I have never read any reports anywhere about poor headlights in Taurus/Sable before these recent posts and have not noticed any problems with my Taurus-and it does not have fog lights available anyways.

Ford claimed that headlights in the current generation Taurus are 20% brighter than the past generation-this was in the Edmunds writeup for 2000 Taurus.

Are Sable headlights are poorer than Taurus? I don't know. I suppose it is a possibility as the exterior shape of the headlights are different, but being engineered by basically the same group in Ford, I doubt there is any appreciable difference.

s852 · May 2003

I have a laptop that I plan to use as a navigation system in a 2002 Taurus that has a single disk CD player and no cassette.
If it had a cassette, I would just get a cassette adapter to run the audio from the laptop, but that is not an option. I also heard that there are FM transmitters than could be used, but they work poorly.
Someone said there is someway to tap into the unused factory CD changer input so I could connect the laptop or even a MP3 player and get full fidelity.
Anyone have an idea how this could be done?
It would be really cool to use the laptop to play MP3s and also simultaneously hear the navigation commands if that software was running at the same time.

ANT14 · May 2003

Just as a sidenote, today's results were released by JDPowers, which surveys customers on Initial Quality on the first 90 days. I don't take this survey seriously in any way, but nice inidication....

Sable placed 1st place for Premium Midsize Car.

Here's the link if anyone wishes to view it.
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003028

ssartori · May 2003

About 11 months ago while my 1999 Mercury Sable was still under new car warranty, which at that time had about 23,000 mile and 3 months left, I developed a small oil leak. I would see a few drops of oil every morning on my garage floor. I brought it in to the dealer, for an oil change and had it checked out. They thought it was a loose plug. I still had the small leak. Then one morning, after pulling out of the garage, I noted a pretty good size oil puddle under the car. Took it to the dealer immediately, and they discovered that the oil filter at the bottom where the gasket and threaded flange is, was bower out making it convex instead of concaved. Interesting, thought it was a faulty filter and placed a new one on the car and off I went.

For the next few months, I had the consistent oil leak maybe a few drops every few day. Took it back again and couldn'tt find the leak. Well last December, with maybe 25,000 mile and about 4 months out of new car warranty, while driving home from work in the shadier side of town, my check engine light came on and the engine shut down. I smelled oil burning. I opened the hood and check the dipstick and it still showed no oil and there was a huge puddle under the car, about 5 quarts worth.

At that Point I thought to myself thank God, I had ESP extended warranty. Well I called the 1-800 for roadside assistance. The rep on the line told me I had no roadside assistance coverage, had no record of me ever buying this car, even though Im still paying for it through Ford Motor credit, His data base only showed me as owning a 1986 T-Bird (that car has been gone for about 6-7 years), and living at a address that I moved from about 8 years ago. He gave me the name of 2 guys who they use to tow. Now mind you this all was happening in the shadier side of town its dark and about 6pm. I called the first guy and he said it would be about 3 hours before he would come, called the second guy, and he just laughed about the location the car was at and hung up. At that point I called the dealer and by luck they were still there. The owner of the dealership called Ford and bamm, in 10 minutes I got a call from roadside assistance asking where I was and there will be a tow truck there in 15 minutes.

Back at the dealership, they checked out the car and it seemed that the oil filter exploded this time draining the oil out in seconds. Oil was all over the engine compartment along with the road. So the dealership diagnosed the problem as a faulty oil pump. They gave me a loaner car and in about a week, had the new oil pump in. Brought the car home and for the next 3 weeks still saw the few drops of oil on the garage floor. Brought it back to the dealer once again and they took it apart again making sure they did not do a faulty job replacing it the first time. Did a dye check etc. About a week or two later got a call from them and they said it was ready to go. Brought back my loaner, picked up my car and sure enough for the next month I had the constant 3-5 inch diameter leak on my garage floor. I called the dealership and ask if they would like me to take it somewhere else. They said no, they would give it one more shot. This time after talking to Ford, they took the engine out of the car and found a small leak between the upper and lower block. Yes, the 3.0 Duratec has an upper and lower block and there is a seal between the two blocks. Well that was almost 6 weeks ago and my car is still with out an engine, sitting on a lift at the dealer.

Come to find out Ford ESP is demanding from the dealership refund for the second visit where the dealership double check the work done to replace the oil pump. I think the around is $900. The dealership said they did the right thing, fix the first problem, the oil pump that was probably turning out 300psi enough to blow apart a metal oil filter and possibly blow a gasket between the upper and lower block. Also they found scoring on the camshaft and cam bearings. The dealership wants Ford to send a new engine. I also want a new engine. The car has 26,000 mile and the mileage is not increasing anytime soon. Ford said they should have found the problem the first time. I called the Ford customer no-service number, they were very sympathetic but said they cant do anything about the problem they are strickly new car only and said that ESP and the dealership will work it out.

Im very thankful that the dealership is giving me a loaner, as I really need a vehicle. Ford ESP is a different division of Ford and I guess they dont play well with the new car warranty division. Because the oil filter didnt blow out till after the new car warranty expired ESP is covering it, which Im guessing is basically Ford internal warranty division, which may be set up like an insurance company.

The owner of the dealership has called Ford Regional office. Thats where we stand now. Im driving a 97 Mountaineer, as the loaner for the pass three weeks and before that I had a couple Sable demos and a Grand Marquee. I just wish they would let me drive a couple Lincolns. Oh well maybe a month from now.

Now think about it, the dealership tore the engine (oil pump is not in the oil pan but running off the front somewhere and a bear to get to) 2 times at about 16-20 hours per visit @ $50-60 per hour. Thats about $2000. If they were to drop an engine in on the first trip they would have been about $900-1000 ahead. What $800 for a new engine and 8 hours labor. Instead I get to see how ugly, and how non-consumer oriented Ford Motor Company is. Let alone how they treat their dealers and most of all, the substandard quality of their product.

Who would of thought that an oil pump would be blowing oil filters off a car at 24,000 miles.

Ill let you know what happens.

edmund2460 · May 2003

Sorry to hear about your problems. (1) I think you may have a case for warranty compensation since the problem started within the warranty period - perhaps someone else can confirm this. (2) I would investigate small claims court if you can't get your way. When I had my head gasket fail, I got the same unsympathetic run around from customer service, I told them that I had been a loyal customer that had bought 4 of their cars in 5 years and they didn't care. I would have even taken a discount coupon on a new car. I know they made concessions to some others who had the same problem, extended the warranty on some cars (not my model year) and paid when some sued. It's their service strategy, do nothing till they absolutely have to, look at past history and you will see they have not changed. Note: before you loyalists beat up on me, I am making a point not about the car but what I perceive to be Ford's approach to getting back their market share...

danielj6 · May 2003

Although I don't have advice to give you, I do empathize with you as you suffer through this ordeal. I'd like to say or actually repeat what has been my personal belief and attitude for some time. My deepest dislike for car manufacturers and dealers. I only buy from whom I get the best deal. I have no loyalties and will not purchase more than 2 vehicles from the same maker.

If tomorrow I see even the smallest oil leak under my car I will cut my losses and get rid of it. Oil leaks point to engine trouble and this means lots of bucks. I realize that for some people is not simple to go and trade their car for another and get into car payments. But the aggravation of having these "technicians" get their paws in my engine and suckered me out of $$$$$$$$$$$$ is just unecceptable.

I got carried away. Don't want to start a controversy here. This is just mi opinion.
ssartori I wish you very good luck!

caesarslegion · May 2003

It would be lawyer time if it was my car. I had to lemon law a dodge shadow once so I know the head ache and problems you're going through. I wish you the best of luck and let us know how things work out.

regfootball · May 2003

so my dome light stays on after i shut the door and also my alarm just up and decides to go off by itself. From some net research I see the dome light problem is very common for this car.....my first fix attemtp is generous wd-40 on the door latch/ switch. Anyone else have any problems or issues with dome lights?

jtkz13 · May 2003

Just a little FYI, they had to replace my longblock due to it blowing the spark plug out of the threads and cracking the head. It was like $4500 for the engine & install, so they aren't cheap.

Fortunately mine only had 28,000 miles on it, and it was replaced within a week. I've got 68k on it now and it's been great since.

Also, you won't get a "new" engine, it will be "remanufactured". This is actually a good thing, because reman engines are spec'd and inspected better than new, or so I've been told by numerous trusted mechanics and engine builders.

marsha7 · May 2003

who responded to my headlight problem...the clear lens looks quite similar to my Intrepid, but my Intrepid could light up Yankee stadium for a night game on a foggy night, and my Sable just ain't got the "light-power"...(lumens?)...bulbs aimed properly, just insufficient light...makes me want to test drive my next vehicle at night, just for that reason...I would think that, after all these years, something like "illumination technology" would be a no-brainer for automakers, kinda like the design of the brake and gas pedal, how much "refinement" do they need???...and, if lights are "getting better" where was Ford at the time???...just the fact that the new design was 20% better than the old ought to tell Ford something is wrong...I find this annoying, but only at night...:):):)

s852 · May 2003

Roughly, what is the expected mileage you should get on the factory equipped tires on a 2002 Taurus SES before they should need replacement? 30,000 miles? 50,000 miles?

badgerfan · May 2003

Unless you are a very aggressive driver, I would expect you would get at least 50,000 out of the OEM tires. I have 25K on my 2000 Taurus with Continental brand OEMs and they have a lot of tread left.

They seem to be adequate on dry pavement and good on snow, but it is quite easy to spin the wheels on acceleration on wet pavement. The Duratec and my foot, however, is partly responsible for this.

upsetter1 · May 2003

Marsha before buying car I would recommend to make research so you know all pros and cons and make right choice. I knew about lights and breaks before buying the car and it wasn't ussiue for me. Good place to go is www.msn.com. Also is good to read comparos. E.g. pros and cons of Sable:

http://autos.msn.com/vip/heraudprocon.aspx?modelid=10380&src=- - vip

Pros

1. Successful styling

2. Improving overall quality

3. Roomier cabin and trunk

4. Adjustable pedals (SE, SEL)

5. Increased storage space

6. Attractive presentation (SE)

Cons

1. High price, numerous options

2. Mediocre suspension and tires

3. Hindered rear-seat access

4. Mediocre braking without rear discs and ABS

5. Limited 3/4 rear visibility

6. Inefficient headlights

7. Lack of rear-seat headrests

8. Numerous equipment details omitted

I agree about all cons except "high price", "Mediocre suspension" and "Numerous equipment details omitted". Yeah this guy buys car for MSRP I guess.

badgerfan · May 2003

I disagree with 1,2,3,5,6 and 8. Brakes number 4 I also partially disagree with, ABS is standard on the SES and SEL, and while braking may not be quite up to some of the competition, would only be an issue if pushed to the extreme limits. Rear disc brakes are an overrated feature as well, as the vast majority of braking force comes from the front wheels.

I strongly disagree with Con 1, unless he is just looking at MSRP, not the great value you get with the dealer discounts and factory rebates. Just try to find 200 Hp minimum V-6 sedan for about $18K-$19K from Toyota, Honda, Nissan, or VW. Even Impala with the 200HP 3.8 pushrod V-6 won't match that price point.

Suspension I find to be just right for a family sedan, taught and well controlled but not punishing on rough roads. Maybe the OEM tires could be better, but this is the case with almost all OEM tires, not just Taurus/Sable.

upsetter1 · May 2003

Some comments on those cons:

Cons

1. High price, numerous options

Ridicilous about price, it has nothing to do with reality. There is no numerous options. Japanese have numerous options.

2. Mediocre suspension and tires

Suspension is tight and comfortable enough. Probably he means that it is more simple design than competition, but simple doesn't necessarily mean bad. Actually for simple design it has it is very good.

3. Hindered rear-seat access

Don't know what does it mean. I have no problems.

4. Mediocre braking without rear discs and ABS

That is true if you are making panic stop, but otherwise in every day life it is adequate. About ABS I don't know - never came to point ABS be involved - California is rather dry place.

5. Limited 3/4 rear visibility

That is true - because of thick C-pillars it's a challenge to back the car.

6. Inefficient headlights

Thats true.

7. Lack of rear-seat headrests

Have no problem with it, but that is true too.

8. Numerous equipment details omitted

Don't know what does it mean. Actually there more than enough of equipment and features for that price. It is not luxury car after all and doesn't cost 30 grands like Camry.

One more thing to add - it is hard to find good driving position. Seats are not as comfortable as in Volvo. They have to learn from Volvo instead from Camry. Camry has a similar problem. Nissan is very good in this aspect. There is virtually no lateral support, and lumber support is not designed good.

ssartori · May 2003

Well folks the day after I posted my issues (never a problem, always issues) I had to stop by the dealer to pick up my poncho and umbrella out of the trunk of my Sable. Yes, it was still sitting on the lift, but, the front end was back in it, and the dealership just took possession on a long block (everything but the intake manifold) for my car! ESP finally came through, and the dealership said I should be getting my car back next week sometime.

As for the price the service rep told me that cost of the engine is indeed about $2,500 and change So jtk13 was right if you add in the labor. I guess I was going by the Auto Zone Ads at $849 for an engine. I always have a hard time reading the fine print.

About loyalty, I have to say I will try to buy from this dealer again though our next vehicle will be a mini van and probably will be a Windstar or a GMC Safari. Need it to tow our pop up camper. Just cant do a Villager. I did hear that Mercury is going to have a Windstar clone this fall but heard it will really be upscale and up priced. Probably like the Windstar SEL. $30,000  $35,000, would love it if I could afford it. Man a 35,000 mini van Who would of thunk it I really am pleased with the dealership. They went to bat for me and even gave me loaners though out this ordeal. Its a small dealership with 4 mechanics but it was like working with a friend / family. Maybe thats why Ford ESP was playing hardball with them. If it were a mega dealership, Ford would have had a lot more to lose. It was great when you can walk into the owner's office ask if he has heard from the regional office yet. But they need to have the product the customer wants and can afford.

So it looks like Ford came through, but very unfortunate that I had to witness the stupidity of an American Company and its attitude toward their customer, & their dealer. Something that started almost a year ago and being with out a car for 6 weeks while the dealership and Ford haggled about a repair reimbursement is just POOR business. This has left a bad taste in my mouth even to the point that I asked the owner to dump the Lincoln Mercury franchise and pick up a GM.

I just hope it all goes back together and it works! Oh ya and no oil leaks..

jtkz13 · May 2003

Glad to hear it has worked out. I bet that remanfactured Duratec outlasts the car.

When will Ford realize people get more pissed when the car is broken and won't be covered, as opposed to being broken in the 1st place.

I've had multiple small problems with mine, but to be honest I don't remember half of them. Ya know why? Because the dealership took care of them the 1st time and without making a big deal of it. The crazy thing is that the dealership I went to for warranty work isn't even the place I bought the car new.

Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008

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