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Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008

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Comments

  • fordman33fordman33 Member Posts: 32
    I get between 15 & 20 mpg city and between 20 & 25 mpg highway w/ my 2000 SE Vulcan; I suspect it would be worse if I had the duratec. I'm happy w/25 highway, since I traded a 98 F-150 that got around 16-17 highway, well under the advertised mpg as well. I believe Ford's mileage tests are conducted by a 94 year old grandmother in Kansas, as they always seem to overestimate.
  • fordman33fordman33 Member Posts: 32
    Just did the first oil change on my 2000 SE. Great car, but I'd sure like to give a swift kick in the posterior to the guy that deciced to stick the oil filter where its located. They must use an air wrench to put them on at the factory. I wrestled with it for about an hour, then had to go to wal-mart for a pliers-style wrench. I used a motorcraft filter; my old wrench fit the new filter, but not the factory filter with the same number. Strange....
  • fordman33fordman33 Member Posts: 32
    I'm wondering about this as well; a particulate air filtration system is listed as standard on all the models, but I'm not sure its the same thing.
  • bthompbthomp Member Posts: 69
    I'm not sure what the Tauri twins have, the CV has a 130amp alt. Don't they give you power ports inside the cabin? I guess FORD just put them there for show eh? It's hard to pin anyone down in writing anymore. Too much litigation I guess.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    I haven't seen neither Taurus engine (Duratec or Vulcan) on the annual 10 best engine contest. From Ford I have seen the V-8's and I believe the 2.5L V-6 from the Contour SVT. GM's 3800 Series II V-6 was featured until 1997 and now the 3.5L DOHC "Shortstar" has taken the honors since then 9Both excellent engines). I have yet to see an engine from DChrysler or Honda (Exception the S2000 engine made it to the list this year).

    Opinions?
  • tractiontraction Member Posts: 141
    Ford had the most engines of any manufacturer on this years Ward's 10 best engine list.

    The Duratec has won in previous years.

    I think the 5.4L Ford V-8 they put in the F-Series and Expedition/Excursion may have set a record for the number of repeat wins this year.

    Every winner on the list had one thing in common, overhead cams. Not a push rod anywhere in sight.
  • tboner1965tboner1965 Member Posts: 647
    ... Wards Auto 10 Best Engine winner. Here is the link for the 1999 list, but it mentions a return engagement for the 2.5L Duratec.

    http://www.wardsauto.com/best10/99info/ford25svt.htm

    The 2.5L is just the 3.0L with a smaller bore. In fact a Ford Performance Tuner has taken the 2.5L heads and mated them to a 3.0L block added a supercharger and is producing about 290HP

    Now if I can get that into my Contour :)

    Cheers,

    TB
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    The Taurus is the number one seller because it is priced where the average family can afford it, not because it is a better car than the Camry and
    Accord. I paid just under 22,000 for my Intrigue
    last year. I could have bought a Accord for 24,000. I didn't feel that the Intrigue was better than the Accord just that I was more comfortable paying 2,000 less. A Taurus can be had for less than 20,000 nicely optioned, this is why people are buying them.
    I have seen your posts flaming Gm cars, most noticeably the Impala, and you guys need to get over yourselves.
    My Intrigue has more room, better acceleration, and better gas mileage than the Taurus, is it a
    nicer driving car, yes, has it been in the shop more than your Taurus', oh yeah. But, even with its problems it has been the best driving sedan that I have been in for the money. Its passing acceleration is truly amazing.
    It seems to me that you need to realize that the Taurus is what it is, a value oriented family sedan nothing more and nothing less.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    AND THE INTRIGUE IS A WORLD BEATER?

    the intrigue 3.5 and tranny is a a bit superior engine to the 3.0 duratec and ford tranny, i may agree to that.

    But compare the interiors of the two cars. The Taurus beats it hands down. The plastics and switches and seats are much nicer in the Taurus. And the Taurus has more space on the inside.

    Looks wise on the exterior its tie. Myself, I prefer the Taurus by a whisker.

    Pricing wise, GM still hasn't figured out that a car like the Intrigue doesn't deserve a 28k sticker price (loaded). You can buy a fully loaded Taurus for barely around 23k, or a basic Taurus around 16k. High end or low end, the Taurus is superior priced for a car that is essentially equal or better than comparable GM products.

    Bottom line- GM is overpriced in a lot of cases compared to competition, they need to upgrade their motors in a lot of their models, and also they could stand to improve the styling, drving dynamics and interiors quality. Ford at least makes a showing in these areas. You can cite the intrigue, but remember the Intrigue is most likely GM's best sedan. The Impala certainly doesn't stack up like the Intrigue.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    But the Impala stacks better against the Taurus...

    (Go ahead flame me!)
  • mcdillmcdill Member Posts: 180
    ive got a impala sales guide that only the dealer has , and it compares the impala to the taurus, in many ways , and you guessed it the impala came out on top , and a good thing about the comparison was it showed pictures of each way it was compared that way there is no excuses.
  • fordman33fordman33 Member Posts: 32
    What - a G.M. comparison of Impala and Taurus had the Impala come out on top? Absolutely Amazing!
    Check out the Edmunds comparison for a slightly more impartial comparison....

    http://www.edmunds.com/roadtests/comparison/2000/familysedan/index.html
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    The Edmunds' Comparo more IMPARTIAL? Don't think so buddy!. Edmunds' reports are very biased filled with subjective opinions and full of childish personal remarks. Read carefully between the lines....."The Oldsmobile Intrigue is a dangerous car to drive without the PCS (Automatic satibility system)...WHAT??????

    If this is JOURNALISM, I am SUPERMAN!
  • tractiontraction Member Posts: 141
    interesting info from Edmunds ....The Chevy Impala is back again, this time as a front-wheel-drive, V6-powered spin-off of the Lumina chassis.

    I was wondering where the Lumina went. What ever happened to the rear wheel drive V-8 powered Impala? The new Impala is just a warmed over Lumina with a name change.
  • tractiontraction Member Posts: 141
    Impala Exterior Design from the Editors of Edmunds:

    "Ugly. That was the term most often used to describe the 2000 Impala. The new "squashed greenhouse" look isn't befitting of the Impala lineage, which imparts a breadbox appearance. "
  • tractiontraction Member Posts: 141
    from the Editors of Edmunds regarding the interior of the Lumina...er Impala:

    "lack of quality textures" and "instead sport rubbery vinyls; glossy plastics and a leftover-parts-bin feel"

    .."Perhaps it's time Chevrolet took lessons from Ford's Visteon group on how interiors are done."
  • barjonbarjon Member Posts: 27
    So far, nothing has been done to fix the rear door belt moldings on my car since I brought it to the attention of my dealer's service manager one month ago. After being visited by the regional Ford Rep yesterday, all he could tell me today is that Ford hasn't figured out what to do about this yet, especially since every 2000 Taurus has been built with this defect. His dealership is now up to 6 complaints about these moldings.

    Once again, 2000 Taurus owners, take a look at the black moldings on the back doors that run just below the windows. Look at how they appear to be cut too wide around the post at the back of the door (worse on driver's side), leaving a big gap that you can look right down into the door through, also letting more than acceptable amounts of water to get inside the door. Then please show your dealer's service manager. The more complaints Ford has about this defect, the quicker they'll have to find a solution (I hope).
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    "Edmunds' opinions are mean SQUAT to me."

    Then why are you here? Why don't you refer us to positve reviews of the Chevy that are not GM edited?

    When a car review is bad, they are "biased and reviews mean nothing" and if it's good, they are hailed as "proof that my car is the best".
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    Interesting....well you could also take me to the Ford edited unbiased reviews.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    By the way, the Impala is rated as a full sized car with the interior room, so it's supposedly competing with the Crown Victoria.

    The Malibu is now positioned as a mid-size car. To me, it is a Corsica-like rental appliance. (yes, I drove one, zzzzzzz.)
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    Name an un-biased review of the Impala yet?
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    http://www.thecarplace.com/impala.htm

    This is the first one...more coming your way...
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    http://www.allpar.com/reviews/2000/impala.html

    Even the Dodge fans can recognize the virtues of this car!
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
  • sable93sable93 Member Posts: 107
    Teo,

    I have nothing to say against or for the Impala (since I know very little about them), but the www.epinions.com reviews I don't feel are very valuable. If you read a bunch of the Taurus reviews, you'll notice that people are complaining about their old Tauruses (many from the early 90s.) What does that have to do with the newer Tauruses. As an owner of a '97 (and a former owner of a '93 Sable), I can say that the cars are completely different. The Impala is a brand new car. There aren't any 1993 Impala owners there to complain about problems with their car.

    I haven't checked out any of the other webpages, but do you really care whether we like the Impala or not. To me, all that is important is that I like my car, and I can easily say that I love my '97 Taurus GL. I hope you enjoy your Impala.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    The feeling is mutual :)
  • mcdillmcdill Member Posts: 180
    here
  • reesejreesej Member Posts: 23
    "... Ford hasn't figured out what to do about this yet, especially since every 2000 Taurus has been built with this defect."

    Not every 2000 Taurus is affected -- The moldings fit just fine on my SES -- I can't look down into the door at all. My Taurus was built in Chicago in early 2000 (took delivery March 16th). Perhaps this defect is limited to after a certain date or at only one plant.
  • barjonbarjon Member Posts: 27
    Reesej, I'm glad to hear your car doesn't have this problem. Perhaps it was built with the last of their supply of moldings from a previous lot.

    My car was also assembled in Chicago, on May 1. After taking delivery on May 27, every single Taurus I've looked at, whether made in Chicago or Atlanta, on 2 dealers' lots looks exactly like mine.

    In fact, the first step my dealer's service manager took was to order new moldings. He inspected them when they came in, only to find they were formed as poorly as the ones already on my car, and saw no sense in making the switch.

    Hopefully you are correct that this is limited to cars manufactured during a small period of time.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Impala is rated as a full sized car

    Chevrolet tried to rate Impala this way last year, than stop. You can see this yourself at the official GM site, gmbuypower: just search across from all GM makes for body style. Impala is rated to be mid-size, as well as Malibu.

    Malibu is now positioned as a mid-size car. To me, it is a Corsica-like rental appliance.

    Know nothing about Corsica, but I work almost next door to a rental office and half block from another one and I saw a lot of their cars. Yes, Malibu is a rental workhorse. As well as Taurus. Must be dependable enough and not quirky.

    As about size, well, I own a 98 Malibu and 88 Taurus Wagon. When we bought the Malibu, both my wofe and I considered it to be a small compact car. But, somehow, it always took not so compact place in my parking garage (very cramped one, downtown, in an old building).

    Intrigued, I took both manuals from the glove boxes and compared dimensions. It turned to be that Malibu is only 1/8 inch (3mm) shorter than 1988 Taurus wagons and somewhat longer than the sedans. Not so small cars.

    Also, there is more rear legroom in Malibu - more place for my son. And the trunk is very large, while, unfortunately still no wagon.

    In other words, Malibu looks smaller than it is in reality, with the opposite for Taurus. Just a design.

    On the other hand, all Tauruses are somewhat wider, and the 96-2000 Tauruses are longer too.
  • 2k_impala_ls2k_impala_ls Member Posts: 311
    Ford sells ONE midsized car. GM MAKES MANY. Add all the GM midsized sales together and guess WHO THE REAL # 1 IS. DID THEY FIGURE OUT YET HOW THAT FIESTA SPOILER GOT ON THE TAURUS?
  • ohio7ohio7 Member Posts: 67
    Re: #238 I've had my SEL for three weeks today. Have only driven it four times because I don't know how to operate anything in the interior! I've been driving a 1984 Mustang and the technology has passed me by. My red car came from another dealer other than the one that I bought it from. Thanks to them it came with gold pin striping that really looks sharp! I've not seen any 2000 Tauruses with stripes. Haven't seen any with a spoiler either, but I think that it would not look good with the newer design. It stands well as is.

    Re: #292 Barjon, I guess you didn't see my posting #191. It was directed to you. I'm happy with the fix they did. In talking recently to my salesman, they plan on fixing the gaps that are real bad on other cars and then charging Ford later.

    Regarding the "L" - he has ordered one. I have seen SES and SEL on a couple of cars. I bet most people don't realize that they're missing or really don't care. When they go to sell they will wish that they had gotten it fixed.
  • 2k_impala_ls2k_impala_ls Member Posts: 311
    READ THIS ABOUT FORD. THE 4TH MOST COMPLAINED ABOUT COMPANY. WHERES GM, NOT ON THE LIST. HMMMM
    http://ugetheard.com/wc.dll?ugripecls~FeedbackStats0_2
  • 2k_impala_ls2k_impala_ls Member Posts: 311
    I recently purchased a 1998 ford taurus se with 27,412 miles on it on 4/12/00. I have had it in for service (warranty work) 3 times now... 1) The transmission goes out 2 weeks after I bought it, 2) They have to repair the damage they did to my vehicle, 3) The shift assembly needed replacement (6/2/00 - 6/8/00). You mean to tell me that SOUTHGATE FORD of Michigan does not have the resources to detect problems with vehicles continuously brought in for service???? I have to take it back on Monday for bad something again. I am not sure what it is yet... it kind of sounds like something is really loose in the back of the car, which the car is front wheel drive! Brakes or something similar to that I suppose. I am demanding a replacement vehicle as I am afraid of what will happen when the warranty expires. Word for the wise: hindsight is always 20/20... take your time, look around... and by all means, buy something other than a Ford Taurus!!!!
  • fordman33fordman33 Member Posts: 32
    Could have been any model - when you buy used, you don't know what your getting.
  • greggk11greggk11 Member Posts: 1
    -- All new Taurus' have the cabin air filter (particulate filter). This helps keep dust out of the car. Change interval is 15k miles.

    -- I've been driving my new Taurus since December, I got the SEL trim level with the 24V Duratec, MACH stereo with side air bags. I was very impressed with the build quality on this car, everything fit together nicely with no squeaks or rattles. The acceleration and the car is beatiful, and I've gotten a lot of complements on it. I just hit 15k miles with no problems.

    -- OK, I forgot I did/do have one issue. When the car is in overdrive at about 35-40mph on a flat surface it will "trailer-hitch" or modulate slightly some times. Dealer checked and didn't have a fix for it. Had the computer re-flashed for a recall and that didn't fix it. It's a minor annoyance.

    -- The only thing I'd change on the car is the seats. I bought it off the lot and it came with no cost leather seats. I never had leather seats before and find these a little uncomfortable (hard). Go with the cloth seat covers.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    FORD SELLS ONE MIDSIZE CAR (actually two-Sable)

    GM SELLS (too) MANY.

    You're still missing the point. Why do they need to burn cost and resources engineering and marketing sooo many different cars that compete with each other essentially?

    Bottom line-if the Chevy Impala is soo freakin awesome, then why doesn't the Chevy Impala outsell the Taurus? Chevrolet and Ford are direct competitors. Chevy probably has more dealers. The cars are the same class. Last I saw, the Taurus probably outsells the Impala 2 to 1.

    Back when GM actually had market share, it made sense to offer many different models (Regal, Cutalss Supreme, etc.) They sold enough of each make to make it worthwhile.

    At the very least, for all the effort GM puts forth to make so many different midsized offerings, a Chevy midsized sedan that is in direct competition with a mid sized Ford should still outsell Ford shouldn't it?

    No, it only sells half maybe. Why? You figure it out.

    All the sales of the Grand Prix Intrigue and Regal/Century added to the Impala should be double or more than the Taurus but my bet is its probably close to equal. So GM having all those extra choices is nice but it certainly isn't sending shockwaves through the market.

    Too manhy folks today are more fond of Passats, Camrys, Accords, AND Tauruses instead of the GM's.
  • fordman33fordman33 Member Posts: 32
    Just had my 2000 SE in for the "free 30 day checkup". The dealer verified that it does have the cabin air filter. I don't know why the book is so vague about which models have the filter. I have some concern about the rear door molding problem mentioned earlier; I mentioned it to the shop - they didn't seem concerned and I didn't have time to argue about it today. I will definitely keep an eye on this issue.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    It took Ford Motor Company 10 years to fix most of the Taurus reliability issues. The first Taurus went on sale on 1986 and the car became more or less trouble free until the dismal 1996 redesign.

    Why Taurus sells well?. Because it is valued priced and marketed at very close price points in relation to its main targets: The Accord and Camry. The Taurus offers "more car" for the money than either Camry and Accord, plus the Taurus is styled more in tune to what import buyers are looking for (Milk and Toast design cues, better assembly quality, more space, better engines,etc).

    Now, if you try to sell a "base" Taurus at more than $21,000 per unit, Ford would have a more difficult time moving them out of dealership lots. You can get a nicely equipped Taurus in the neighborhood of 18K to 19K, so that cuts right into Accord/Camry Territory.

    Now, GM and Chysler midsize offerings compete more among each other than with the Accord/Camry duo. For instance the Impala target market is the Crown Victoria, Dodge Intrepid and Ford Taurus. Each one of these are Domestic cars. So guys, the why the Impala doesn't go after the Camry/Accord sales is a lame argument to say the least. Impala, Intrepid, Regal,etc,etc appeal to more traditional domestic buyers than for one reason or another don't have their tastes gravitating toward absolute 'Import' oriented autos.

    The Impala has been selling close to 15,000 units per month, a figure that the old Luminas could only dream of. So not bad for a first year Chevy model in the market right there in the 10/11th sales spots.

    Would the Impala brake the barrier and compete head to head with the Taurus?? May be, but GM needs to sell close to 200,000 cars per year to see those goals a reality. Remember that the "Impala" moniker has a much wider market recognition than the "Taurus" moniker, altough Ford has done a commendable job to boost the car's popularity. When t GM sold 1 million Impalas in 1965 (No other car or automaker has been able to beat this sales record)Ford didn't even dreamed about the "Taurus" then (21 years in the future)so,the Impala name carries much weight and automotive history with it. GM made a terrible mistake replacing such 'household' names as Impala and Malibu for the insipid "Corsica" and "Lumina" names. In the mid 1990's they realized about this mistake and the 94-96 Impala SS was reborn in more 'serious' caprice clothes. Ditto for the Malibu.

    The first Impala was launched to market in 1959 and the Last run was made until 1979 or 1980. Then the car was 'revived' in the mid 1990's and re-relased for longer production run in 2000.

    The upcoming Impala SS,Taurus SHO and Dodge Charger R/T should bring back the "Spice" in the high performance domestic sedan arena.

    People that view cars as RICE BURNERS are more fond into bland and boring Accords and Camrys and strongly believe that reliability and resale value are the very end of automotive history. (Been there done that). People that value high fashion looks, good performance and the European flair associated with german cars fall for Passats, Jettas, BMW's, etc. People that like more substantial sedans, better performance, better looks, more room, more safety, and more value for the dollar, look for domestic nameplates such as Taurus, Regal, Impala, Grand Prix, Intrigue, Intrepid,etc.

    So to put it in a more "Human" way:

    Japanese cars = Chinese food take out or delivery Pizza, reliable, plain and plenty tasty.

    European Cars = A good glass of Chardonnay with the best gourmet Salmon cut.

    American cars = An Ice Cold beer (Pick your favorite brand) with a 14oz new York Strip prime cut steak and French fries.

    Who doesn't like any of these choices?

    :-)
  • barjonbarjon Member Posts: 27
    I read your messages and I'm curious if you know exactly what your dealer did to make the moldings fit so much better. Did they use some sort of filler, or did they replace the moldings completely with some old stock?
  • emerson_temerson_t Member Posts: 2
    I have a new 2000 Taraus with 4,000 mile on it and my gas mileage in town is 15 and 16 mpg. That seems very low to me. I'm a sane driver and don't do jack rabbit starts etc. Has anyone else had this problem?
  • tcengiatcengia Member Posts: 4
    I know exactly what you mean. Right after purchasing our 2000 SES, I did 2 mileage checks on a combination city / highway drive profile. I got 23 MPG. After 3 weeks, I received the recall notice for the PCM, had it done, and ever since have experienced a loss of power and lost about 3 MPG.I am curious as to whether you received a recall notice after you purchased your car? I just returned from a 2400 mile trip, mostly highway driving at 70 MPH, and averaged 24 MPG. The car has 4520 miles on it.
  • emerson_temerson_t Member Posts: 2
    No, I didn't get a recall notice. I too took a 2000 mile trip and got 24 to 29 on the highway. The brand of gas seems to really matter in this car. I do ok with Texico.
  • barjonbarjon Member Posts: 27
    I'm also concerned about the mileage I'm getting from my new SEL with the Duratec, which now has 2300 miles on it. I'm only getting 19 mpg on my normal weekly mixed hwy/city driving, when I used to get 23 from the same exact driving with my 97 Taurus GL with the 12V engine.

    A friend told me to give it to at least 5,000 miles, but should it take that long for the engine to loosen up?
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    "Remember that the "Impala"
    moniker has a much wider market recognition than
    the "Taurus" moniker, altough Ford has done a
    commendable job to boost the car's popularity."

    Yeah to anyone over age 45 or 50!

    Ford since 1986 has probably sold 6 or 7 million Taurus'. Chevy since then has not registered the Impala name in big numbers although the Impala SS was successful (but not many copies).

    Most of todays car buying public has a greater recognition of Accord, Camry, Taurus than Impala.
  • nails1nails1 Member Posts: 1
    Dumb question. What's the difference between the factory installed and after market moonroof. I've been told by the dealer even factory installed moonroofs are not installed by the factory but done 'off site' after the vehicle has been built. Sounds odd.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    "Most of todays car buying public has a greater
    recognition of Accord, Camry, Taurus than Impala."

    Not sure if that will be the case anymore. The fact is that the Impala, beign one of the lowest priced all new for 2000 GM Midsizers, it already has some strong recognition in the car market. Give it some more time in the marketplace (Although Chevy needs to market this car a lot better)and with the Upcoming SS model, the Impala will seriously upset the sales figures of its main rivals.

    "Yeah to anyone over age 45 or 50!"

    Absolutely false. I am 28 and my wife is 24. We are right in the "lucrative" age group that buys new Volkswagens, Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, Acuras, Ford Focus and so forth. We both are professionals (Computer Engineer & technical Writer) Before we bought our Impala, we test drove a number of new "Hot and Trendy" cars...the Impala won in many respects of performance, value, quality and safety.

    If you conduct a survey in the Impala VII topic here in Edmunds, you'll be surprised to find that the great majority of Impala owners in that forum are under 35 years old. There are handful of Generation X'ers between the ages of 20 to 30 that have bought new Impalas. None of them were even born yet to witness the heyday of this model in the 1960's. Great job done by Chevy to bring back potential import buyers into a midsize V-6 domestic car. This car has a great following among young buyers....it says a lot about the car and breaks the myth that 20 somethings and 30 somethings will always prefer imported or more "Popular appealing" new cars.

    It is interesting to note that most "young" buyers see the Taurus fit more in the "45 or 50" age buyer group that you are talking about.
This discussion has been closed.