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Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008

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Comments

  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    honestly, if a car is beyond 3 years (any make) you can expect little things like that to start to nickel and dime ya.
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    $275 is not much at all. I wouldn't care. A paid $350 for just starter replacement on '94 Taurus. On Audi you would spend couple of grands.
  • wep68wep68 Member Posts: 18
    Have to disagee with the 3 year cars will nickle and dime comment. My 94 Camry went to 100K without any repairs, except a tail light. At 126K miles the valves are worn, but no replacement of any parts, save the battery (which lasted 10years). Seriously, I am still on orig brakes (no new pads),steering pump,radiator, many hoses orig. Timing belt was done as maintenance at 90K. The interior and exterior still look great. The 94 Camry "Champagne" paint is the same as used on Lexus that year, and it looks far better than teh paint on my wifes 98 Corolla. It really is amazingly well bolted together. I hope my 02 Taurus does half as well.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    It isn't the issue of $275 at all. I know that with time parts need replacement. But my mileage is just too low to have these troubles.

    upsetter1: Your car is now 10 years old and by now it paid for it itself. When did you replace the starter?

    wep68: That's what I called dependable and well made.

    I'll obviously fix my car soon. I'm just waiting for the weather to warm up a bit here in New York and get into the scorching 40's.

    Enough whining. Thanks very much guys for the good advice you gave me. Still like my car and believe it's a good value.
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    I replaced starter in 2001, it had 150K miles. I also repared starter on my older Toyota. It cost me nothing because I fixed it myself. With Ford it stopped to work at work so I didn't have option other than ask shop to tow my car. Actually on Ford it would be much easier to remove starter than in Toyota where it was buried behind the engine. Starter may have some worn part that cost couple of bucks, but when you go to shop they just replace the whole thing. So it is better to do it yourself. Power steering it much harder task to remove and repair. But 300 bucks is very low price IMHO.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    Exactly, it's not a fortune. But keep in mind that this repair isn't going to be done at the dealer. My car has not visited the dealer's shop for a while now right after the warranty ended. I'm sure that I'd come out with a higher bill there than what my mechanic quoted me.

    Replacing a worn part on a car that has 150K is not as painful as having to fix a spring chicken with 29K. I wonder what else will go wrong.

    I do believe, however, that repairs on domestic cars are cheaper than on foreign makes, especially European. Repairing an out of warranty Toyota has to be costlier than an American car. This is exactly part of the hidden value of a Taurus/Sable or other American over a Honda/Toyota. By the way and speaking of Hondas, my mechanic, who works on hondas (and other makes) told me to stay away from them Hondas.
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    In the German market Japanese spare parts are more expensive than for German cars. I would say way more expensive. Of course you don't have to repair Japanese as often as German, but still. I mean even filters are more expensive.

    Yeah a trusted mechanic is much better than a dealer. Dealers sometimes do a very sloppy job, especially if they are VW or Audi dealers. Actually I have no trust in VW, Audi dealers at all. It is very frustrating taking into account how much more they ask.
  • jrc346jrc346 Member Posts: 337
    I have just been reading over the past 20 posts and I noticed your power steering pump problem. Could you explain what is it doing that they are saying it is bad?
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    My 2000 Mercury Sable station wagon with 25000 miles has developed a sort of humming sound whenever I turn the steering wheel right or left. I've had this for several months now, and the sound is louder in cold weather than in hot.

    The shop initially checked rack and pinion components and greased some parts which quiet the noise but didn't make it go away. Within a few days the humming sound returned, and now is very loud to the point of embarrassment.

    Took the car back to the shop and was told that there is power steering pump failure and needs replacement.

    I need to say that initially I thought that the noise was being transmitted through the steering wheel perhaps because it came up every time I turned it (left or right). However, I don't feel a vibration in my hands but a loud sound coming from the engine bay. I believe that my original impression and observation were wrong, and it could change the diagnosis regarding power steering failure. I also checked the serpentine belt and it seems intact. There is no loss of steering whatsoever.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    Although I couldn't generalize about dealers' service departments, I can say that I've had very bad experiences taking my cars to them. I'm specifically talking about Toyota, Mazda, Ford and Lincoln-Mercury. I'm very well aware of their high overhead, special training of their technicians and that for the most part they know the cars they service much better than private shops.

    I've used a private shop for the last 12 years for service and repairs. I've been allowed to watch my car being serviced and fixed. My mechanic, who's also the owner, listens to me, answers all my questions and doesn't show impatience. I do ask a lot of questions but in a thoughtful and courteous manner.

    As far as German cars, they're for the most part made well but when anything goes wrong it'll cost you not only in labor but parts. Japanese too. Now that Toyota became the 2nd car maker in the world its dealers may try to exploit it by jacking up fees. Only my assessment. But I tell you that those 7 + years that I had the Camry I know I saved $$$$$$$ in scheduled maintenance by not using Toyota dealers' service depts.

    I know there are very good dealers around the nation. I just haven't found them.
  • fdthirdfdthird Member Posts: 352
    Sad part is that the private repair shop is becoming an endangered species. In our area (Long Island) there are less and less gas stations (property worth too much and the oil companies think they are in the real estate business) and at a lot of the gas stations left the service bays are being turned into convenience stores. Much more money in Coke and Beer I guess!

    Having a relationship with a local mechanic may one day real soon become a distant memory of the past replaced by trips to Pep Boys or Firestone Stores or the like. The corner Gas Station will have gone the way of neighborhood hardware stores!
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    my 99 SHO has 62k and i just put new tires on it (originals went to 60k). My brakes are due (I waited way too long). I had the ICP replaced under warranty. Aisde from normal maintenance let me tell you what I have spent for repairs......
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
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  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
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  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    ummmm, NOTHING. So so far its good. I am going to get my v8 engine fix done soon to prevent that debacle. Gotta get an alignment and possible some front end work.

    My BIL has close to or over 159k on his 97 SHO. No issues aside from wear/tear high miles stuff.

    My friend had a 96 and 97 Taurus with a combined 170k miles. Only a tranny failure ont he 96 fixed under warranty. Otherwise, nada. Now he has a 2003 and I haven't heard of any issues.

    The Taurus is a good car. When I mean nickel and diming, I mean small stuff.......not anything catastrophic but still stuff that can cost 2-300 at a time. Hoses, belts, etc. The occasional starter or pump.
  • jtrikjtrik Member Posts: 11
    I've been reading this board for a while now but this is the first time i have responded. My experience in regards to repairs has been that it depends on the individual and their driving habits. In my time i have owned a '79 Ford LTD 110,000 miles(my first car), an 82 Plymouth Turismo 2.2 98,000 miles, 88 Chrysler Lebaron Convertible 200,000+ miles(still have it), 90 Ford Escort GT (wife still own it) 150,000...94 BMW 325i 40,000 miles, BMW 528i 33,000 (just sold this one), Now have a 04 Taurus SE last 2 months.

    Alot of these cars were supposedly very bad reliability cars as stated by Consumer Reports. I have never had any major problems with any of them. Except for normal wear and tear. I am fanatical about doing the preventative maintainence on my vehicles. I have lately been using a log book to record all maintainence performed by me. Started with the 90 Escort GT. The Lebaron and the Escort are riding on the original clutch so when people tell me that the foreign cars are more reliable than the domestics I just don't think thats the case. I really believe each individual drives and takes care of certain cars in their way and the car will act accordingly. Oops, i forgot to mention my 90 Isuzu Amigo which i still use for work...90,000 miles on that guy. :-) Now the Amigo i needed to replace the clutch because i use it to tow stuff for my work...but now drives very nicely...
  • dako_tiandako_tian Member Posts: 298
    But given the average Joe's way of treating cars, some of the "foreign" makes hold up considerably better -- causing reviewers to talk about Toyotas and Hondas as "refrigerator cars" (you hardly ever do anything to them and they seem to last forever). Of course, I think that the "domestics" are getting better generally. But I am certainly glad that the reputation for poor reliability will work to my advantage as I shop for a much-depreciated, used Taurus! ;-)
  • chicagoskychicagosky Member Posts: 36
    I've been curious about the Duratech. I only test-drove one once, and for a very short, very supervised test-drive. I know it has quite a bit more horsepower, but not much more torque. So, which has the most noticeable differences? Acceleration, highway driving, noise level, etc.? And, do you notice a big gas mileage difference? I think the ratings are just 1 mpg difference.
  • chicagoskychicagosky Member Posts: 36
    That's cool that you have the SEL. I've seen the wood trim, which you mentioned you didn't have....and I don't think you're missing much. It's nice and all, but in IMHO the SEL looks sportier without it. The SEL is certainly one of my many dream cars, though I also think my SES is fairly luxurious. With Fords, at least Taurii specifically, it seems that you get more options--even on say the base-level LX-- for less total price than you do on Chevys.
  • chicagoskychicagosky Member Posts: 36
    I was wondering how the SHO is manufactured differently than the Ford SVT vehicles. I know that SVT is a division of Ford, but was the SHO made by SVT? And if not, why not? Is it technically the SHO/SVT?

    I think a manual transmission Taurus must be pretty darn cool to drive-- a lot of get-up and go. What's your horsepower/torque? And is '99 the last year SHO was made?
  • chicagoskychicagosky Member Posts: 36
    I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I'm curious if anybody on our board has ever driven the SVT Contour, and could compare its driveability/rideability to the Taurus. The Contour board isn't quite as active as our board, though I've also posted an inquiry there.
  • jtrikjtrik Member Posts: 11
    I too believe Toyotas and Hondas are darn fine cars. But i have friends who have bought them and have had similar problems. But i still believe that the secret to a cars life is in his glove box. The manual lets us know then when and what to do's. Simple stuff really... I guess with my new Taurus i will find out about it in the coming years but i suspect i will get the same numbers out of it as i have the other cars i have owned. My favourite were still the bimmers, damn fine cars. Wish i didn't have to give it up..oh well..
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    96-99 SHO was NOT a part of the SVT program.

    99 last year for SHO. the v8 in the SHO is an 8 cylinder version of the Ford Contour Duratec v6. (3.4 litres on 8 cylinders vs. 2.5 on 6). Yamaha designed the heads and intake system I believe, similar to their workings in the 89-95 SHO.

    I like the car, but it is very relaxed compared to the 89 SHO I had with stick. The 89 was a brute, but also purred on the highway. The 99 is saddled with a slow auto tranny and needs more torque yet it has the same mid and high rpm rush, and is silken smooth in operation. The car literally never feels like it will run out of breath, even at 90 plus mph it still feels like its not breaking a sweat.

    Car doens't have much sound damping though so it can sound loud at times. It never sounds or feels strained, it only sounds like music.

    There is a design defect Ford is not addressing, and the best place to read up on that is v8sho.com

    I did test a Contour SVT once and it was SWEET. It was a lively car with a phenomenal engine sound and it was fast and shifted nice. Handle well too. I wish I had one to bop around in.

    The regular Contour SE v6 with manual is a pretty entertaining drive also.

    I have often thought recently what it would take to buy a low mile 03 or 04 Taurus, And find a way to easily extract about 30-40 more hp, dress it up a bit and put some nice wheels on it, and some mild suspension tuning. End product would not be too spendy, it would be unique and reasonably quick.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    I cannot comment directly about Duratech vs Vulcan in the same Taurus body, as my Vulcan Taurus was a 1990 and the Duratech is a 2000. So any comments about noise wouldn't be a fair comparison. With the 2000 Taurus and newer, Ford put a lot of effort into making the cars quieter than in the past, so I would bet it would be fairly quiet with either engine.

    I will tell you however, that the Duratech has much better acceleration capabilities from dead stop or at highway passing speeds.

    Mileage is just as good with my new Taurus as my old. In fact, I believe it is a bit better with my Duratech, especially on the highway. Again, I am comparing cars ten years apart so all my comments are subject to that limitation.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
         Here is just a partial listing of Ford and Chevrolet duds:
         Ford's contribution: Falcon, Pinto, Maverick, Galaxie 500, Fairmont, Fairlane, LTD, Aerostar, Windstar and soon Taurus.
         Chevy's contribution: Corvair, Monza, Vega, Citation, Celebrity, Nova, Lumina and Lumina APV, Caprice, and now Cavalier.
         How many models have Honda or Toyota dropped?
         Interesting that most former Taurus, Sable, and Lumina owners that I know are now driving a Toyota Camry. Latest casualty in favor of Camry was a Buick Century. One exception is a former Sable owner got a Chevy Malibu in 2000 and is still driving it with 72,000 miles on it now.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    The people you know are not and never will be a valid statistical sample of all the automobile owners in the US.
  • fdthirdfdthird Member Posts: 352
    "Here is just a partial listing of Ford and Chevrolet duds:
         Ford's contribution: Falcon, Pinto, Maverick, Galaxie 500, Fairmont, Fairlane, LTD, Aerostar, Windstar and soon Taurus."

    Are you kidding?? What you posted there is a list of Ford All Stars. Do you know how many Falcons they sold??? Do you have any idea the impact the Maverick and Fairmont had on the company???

    If you are saying that American companies change names a lot, I'd say that's more of a marketing tool. How about Honda...not one Acura model is called what it originally was. Are they all duds???

    Had Ford not made any of those models you mentioned (and some were in production for a decade or more) there would not be a Ford Motor Company today!

    Go back to the Camry board and discuss your engine sludge and leave us Ford Dopes alone!
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    I am glad Honda and Toyota use reliability and value as marketing tools instead of name changes and rebates.
        Yup. The Acura division of Honda is guilty as charged.
  • jtrikjtrik Member Posts: 11
    One of the reasons Acura's exist is because no body wanted to spend money on an expensive Honda. Same goes for Lexus, and Infiniti's...it's marketing and your comment shows how young you really are...

    Now where's my Honda CVCC? Or Toyota Corona...Datsun anyone?
  • snowmansnowman Member Posts: 540
    Oh man, you forgot to tell that import lover about CRV engine fire issue. It is freshly going on in CRV forum...
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Um, folks we're going off in too many different directions - let's stick to the topic.

    If anyone is seriously interested in comparing the Taurus/Sable to any of these vehicles, feel free to hop over to the Sedans Comparisons board and fire one up.

    But meanwhile, let's let this conversation get back on track. Thanks.
  • fdthirdfdthird Member Posts: 352
    Seems to me that the track here too many times is bashing.

    Agree, lets exchange Taurus/Sable info and take the "my car is better than your car" talk elsewhere!
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    Well, today early in the morning my station wagon arrived early at the shop to finally repair the singing power steering pump.

    Mechanic calls me in the afternoon to tell me that they were partially rebuilding the pump and not replacing it as some components were still in good condition. Seals, pressure valve and high pressure valve were replaced. System was bled and will be tested tomorrow morning. If the humming sound is gone after the test, great. If not, they'll have to replace the rack and pinion at a cost of at least $500. I wont agree to do it. Later in the afternoon I stopped by the shop and everything was shown to me in a diagram.
  • snowmansnowman Member Posts: 540
    The price you mentioned before, is it for rebuilding? not for replacement? What is the warranty they provide for this job?
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    My understanding is that the price quoted to me was for replacing. Now I'm not sure as parts of the pump were found to be in good condition.
  • jrc346jrc346 Member Posts: 337
    Well, that is interesting that they are even bothering to do a rebuild. I don't buy that thing with them replacing the rack. I thought the noise was coming from the pump? I looked at a couple of places to see if steering pump failures were common for Tauruses, but they don't seem to be. I also looked for a TSB on the issue, but found none. Hopefully this is just a fluke.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    Today after a day and a half I got my car back.
    Noise is gone, for now anyway. $200 was the cost.
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    $200 ? It was cheap man. In California I believe it wouldn't cost so low.

    BTW when I was shopping for a used Sable I tested one among many others. I didn't like it because steering fluid level was higher than recommended and sales person asked me after the test drive (I did it alone) was steering okay or not. So I assumed that power steering was rebuilt or replaced.

    Did anybody notice that new Buick LaCrosse resembles Ford Taurus not only in exterior but also in dashboard design ?
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    "Here is just a partial listing of Ford and Chevrolet duds:
         Ford's contribution: Falcon, Pinto, Maverick, Galaxie 500, Fairmont, Fairlane, LTD, Aerostar, Windstar and soon Taurus."

    Falcon, Maverick, LTD, Galaxie 500, Fairmont, Taurus, and Fairlane were not dropped because they were "duds". It was that the names were outdated after a long successful run.

    Example: The last Galaxie was in 1974 (after selling well for 15 years) and it was the exact same car as the 1975-78 LTD, how is that a 'dud'?

    Also: Falcon and Maverick were dropped when the next genration cars were very different. But if one is smart enough to know car history better, they would see that the Falcon's basic platform lasted through many name changes, from 1960-80! Yes, the Maverick and Granada were the same underneath as the Falcon.

    I would say that the Pinto was a dud.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    the LaCrosse does emulate the Taurus more than a little.
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    So Taurus lives on, from now as a Buick LaCrosse :)
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Member Posts: 1,565
    If you want a sneak preview of the 2005 LaCrosse I have one in my garage-its a 2000 Taurus SES-and it has a DOHC engine no less. Just squint a little and you won't tell the difference especially when viewed from the side.
    At this moment, my Lacrosse, oops Taurus, comes complete with a two tone paint job, road salt white over green.
      
    Did you see that post in the LaCrosse discussion showing the photo toggling back between Taurus and LaCrosse? Pretty good one.
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    Well lets call it LaTaurusse :)
  • shank6shank6 Member Posts: 64
    Hi guys. I have to throw my two cents in here. My 2000 Sable Premium LS just crossed the 70,000 mile mark. This car provides me with everthing a Camry does for thousands less. Leather, powerful V-6, and a great ride. I do regular maintenance and plan to keep this car for another 100,000 miles.

    The only thing that could prevent that is a 2005 Mustang SVT Cobra!!!!!!
    Wow, what a car. Now I just have to figure out how to get this buy the wife.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    It's cheap if the whining/humming sound doesn't return. It's strange no to hear it. The only thing I do hear so far after the fix is the Duratech under the hood.

    The LaCrosse does reminisce the Taurus but that name LaCrosse I couldn't live with. I find it even more distasteful than Sonata.

    I also want to comment that The Merc. Sable is more on par with the Toyota Avalon than Camry. Sable is somewhat more upscale than Taurus. The latter competes with Camry.

    I know what you guys are going to say, that you can dress a Taurus just like the best equipped Sable.
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    I don't agree. Avalon is more sophisticated and better executed than Sable. It is upscale car, almost like Lexus. But Five Hundred/Montego will take care of Avalon.

    Power steering is easy to repair, it is not as complicated and tricky as transmission, so don't worry. All my old cars had noisy power steerings in some degree. It is recomended to change steering fluid, I am going to do it at 30,000 miles. Some dirt may be collected over time (from internal operation) and it is very damaging for power steering. It is recommended to keep it clean. Actually it is easy do damage power steering when removing the dirty cap. Sand or other contaminants will certainly damage power steering in short time. It quite possible that it happened in your case, esp. if you bought your car used and don't know how it was maintained. In Duratec there is no need to remove cap to check level and it is very nice feature.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    Avalon always seemed better executed than Sable as well as sophisticated. Ford's new introductions 500 and Montego coincide with Toyota's new 2005 version of the Avalon. It's really going to be interesting to see what happens.

    But it seems to me that over the years Ford's has sold more Sables than Toyota's sales of Avalons. On the other hand, Ford's answer to the Av. was perhaps one of the Lincoln models and not the Sable. Although, Lincoln competes with Lexus. This is getting complicated.
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Member Posts: 205
    That is because Avalon is too expensive and still is Toyota. Exterior design is horrible and it is too small for full size car. Grand Marquis actually was Avalon competitor.
  • nedc2nedc2 Member Posts: 192
    I wonder how well the Taurus and Sable would do if Ford spent some money marketing them, and brought them up to the level of the competition with things like disc brakes on ALL four wheels, and pneumatic lifts for the decklid so your luggage isn't crushed, and making the Duratec standard across the line with the flex-fuel Vulcan a fleet only item? Its seems I see about ten or twenty ads for the Accord alone for every one I see for a Taurus or Sable, no wonder they aren't selling like they were, the marketing people there convinced themselves they weren't worth effort.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    Today I took a drive with wife to Connecticut to visit friends. Ride was comfortable with speeds of 65 to 80 MPH all the way through. It's a miracle I didn't get pulled over. We failed to make a turn and got lost so it took us over 2 hours to arrive at destination. Our backs didn't hurt after seating for so long. I drove with the window open expecting to hear the "humming", which never came.

    My friend used to own a 94 Taurus for 8 years and got 180000 miles out of it without major breakdowns. Motor and tranny never failed. It required only wear and tear item replacements and regular maintenance. Finally he donated the car and leased an Accura. The
    guy wanted a sporty car.

    Moral of this story is: Taurus/Sable are reliable and dependable cars. FoMoCo didn't want to spend the money to aggressevely market these cars, and so it allowed the Japanese counterparts to gain market share in the NorthAmerican market. Shame on you Ford!

    Toyota became the 2nd car manufacturer and relegated Ford to 3rd place. Ford will have to sweat it out to regain market share. In the meantime, dollars become yen and pump up the Japanese economy while we become poorer and unemployed in the U.S.
This discussion has been closed.