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Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008
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Comments
So Futura is the step in right direction to compete with Toyota and Honda, but still it is a catch-up, because is several years after Mazda6 debut. Developing cars in America takes IMHO too long to compete with Japanese companies.
The total ? $701.00 at a shop called Brake and Go. The're new up here in NH. They were $400.00 less than my dealer and the brakes are all Raybestos. I hope the styling on the Merc Montego is similar to the concept drawings. If it is that's my next purchase.
According to my vehicle needs and perception of what a car is and should be, what I choose to own is sufficient. I'm BIG on safety and according to my research, my car is just as safe and perhaps safer as well as structurally stronger than all of those luxo cars and SUV's I saw.
You know the Taurus/Sable may be uninspired, monotonous, dated and simple but how much stock do we put on value and safety. If we sit down and did numbers, how much do we save buy buying a Taurus over those "exciting", expensive, costly to repair and insure foreign beauties?
When my car came out of the wash all wet but clean and shiny, it didn't look any less than the others.
Just an example. My pal owned BMW Z3 convertible. It started to fall apart right after warranty expired and required repair that would worth several grands at least. He quickly reset ECU and trade it in for another BMW from the same dealer. If he had a lease it wasn't a problem at all - he would return the car before warranty expired.
I dont understand why every SUV sold isnt sold with stability control of some sort, but perhaps thats why I'm a Toyota fan.
The Taurus is exactly what you say it is. A safe car with a respectable (though not great) value equation. That said, its been eclipsed by the competition, doesnt offer the LATEST safety features such as side curtains, vehicle stability control, rear head restraints(not that rear heard restraints are really that high tech or costly...) and hence, many are awaiting the promising Futura/500 lines.
~alpha
As far as Taurus, I've never been sure that Ford was that much interested in competing head to head with Camry/Accord. Ford always made much of its money selling trucks where it had only Chevrolet, and among them they shared the American and foreign market up to the last couple of years.
Still, Taurus always offered V6 motors and some standard equipment which those buying Accord/Camry usually had to pay more for. As far as mechanical reliability is concerned, there are a lot of Taurus owners who got close to 200000 miles out of their cars. In my case, my Merc. Sable came with quite a list of standard equipment, traction control and leather seating included. On the other hand, since the start my car exhibited problems. It's a trade off.
The car is spec'ed out as follows:
2001 Taurus SEL
33000 Miles
Black
Tan Leather Interior
Rear Spoiler
Mach Audio
CD Changer
Floor Shifter
Moonroof
Quality Checked plus a Premium Care Warranty.
Total OTD was $12k, and that was including the PremiumCare Warranty add on to the Quality Checked Warranty, and the 35k mile service (which they also changed the transmission fluid because we weren't sure if it had been done yet).
The car is basically flawless in condition, with a minor scuff on the rear bumper, and a small hairline scratch by the moonroof.
The car drives like it was brandnew, and I am very pleased with what I paid, and how I was treated by the dealer. They were extremely accomodating and willing to answer any and all questions that we had.
Overall very pleased with what makes our 2nd Ford Vehicle (also have an '02 Excursion Diesel).
AS
Since you're satisfied with the dealer and good dealers are very hard to come by, what's the name
of the dealership and what city is it located?
That info is allowed here. No names of salesmen/mgrs. or phone #'s, though.
alpha is right, taurus is falling behind in terms of safety features. i have a hunch you have a ford product because you like fords and not because your research indicated your sable is the car to get for safety.
exactly what luxury import sedan is not as safe or as strong structurally as a sable? quite to the contrary.
I called Ford who has forwarded my complaint to some black hole. Is this problem an isolated case or has Ford been selling defective air bags?
Further online searching shows that the NHTSA has 260 reported failures of the air bag system on the 2000 Ford Taurus. http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defects reports that there have been two investigations into the problem. The second investigation is ongoing (NHTSA Action Number EA03010).
You can file complaints as follows:
By Phone
Call the DOT Auto Safety Hotline at 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236) and a NHTSA representative will record your complaint information.
By Mail
You may also print the web form out and fax it to (202) 366-7882 or mail it to:
U.S. Department of Transportation,
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration,
Office of Defects Investigation,
NSA-10.01, 400 7th Street, SW,
Washington, DC 20590.
I've liked Fords and other American makes since childhood. However I bought Sable because (1) is a very structurally safe car, (2) it's roomy (3) is powerful, (4) I got more bang for the buck as compared to Camry/Accords.
My comparison of imports' stuctural strength to my Sable was made purely on issues of $$$$$. I believe that my car is just as strong as the luxury imports I happened to see while at the car wash. I follow NHTSA and IIHS and is no denying that luxo imports are well built. I was in no way referring, in my previous post, to Camry or Accords.
If you read my post again you'll notice that I also mention the high insurance premiums these people pay for their vehicles. We live in a zip code which is well known for high theft.
Sable or Taurus has not been falling behind in safety. I had an unfortunate chance to prove it when after 2 weeks after I had my station wagon I was rear ended. Cosmetic damage to the bumper, no damage to the car's body and no damage to my neck.
My car also came with side air bags, traction control and ABS standard. These was back in 2000. The only safety neglect on the part of Ford was the lack of rear seat head rests, which is a glaring mistake. At this point in time, Accord and Camry as well as Subaru's Legacy are just as safe as Taurus/Sable.
at least you recognize some of the taurus/sable's
shortcomings.
at least you recognize some of the taurus/sable's
shortcomings."
Hey, I'm a Dearbornite and a stockholder, Ford's fortunes are too closely tied to mine for my own comfort sometimes. The trouble is it will take months to ramp up production on the 500/Montego/Freestyle, cars with brand new CVTs standard, and the Futura won't debut 'til a year after that. Atlanta is one of the most productive plants Ford has. It really same a shame to just write the car off so easily and watch people buy all those Camrys, Accord, and Altimas.
Ford has obviously given up on the idea of competing with the Japanese by using Taurus and Sable. To that end, Mazda6 will attempt to compete (Mazda partly owned by Ford), and Ford's new models.
How about looking at Taurus from the standpoint of standard features and safety and not the functionality imposed by Honda, Toyota and Nissan?
Question: should I hold out for a 24 valve engine or is the standard engine OK for this vehicle??
WOW! that's quite a statement. are you being serious? what, if a safety feature is not available on your sable it's not important.
i thought the accord should have side curtain airbags available on all of its models and not just the high end models. i guess i was wrong. why would you want to avoid head injuries from side impacts?
I drove a car with the standard V6 and one with the Duratec. There is almost no comparison between them and I highly recommend the Duratec. Considering the fact that the Taurus's have depreciated so much, I can't possibly imagine there is going to be a huge price difference between them, so it makes sense to get the 24V Duratec.
Just my $.02,
AS
If you bothered to read my earlier posts you'd have noticed that I'm quite critical of Sable/Taurus after owning mine for number of years and seeing its shortcomings.
I am not fanatical about the brand or the manufacturer as you wrongly perceived. I have no loyalties to any car manufacturer.
You, on the other hand venus, are a Taurus basher who got into arguments with several posters whom you sniped. By the way, how is your Jetta? Did it come out of the shop yet?? Did you finally buy an Accord????
guilty as charged for being a taurus basher. i can't believe a major manufacturer like ford (trucks or no trucks) would let one of their cars go so long without any major revisions in such an important segment.
yes i did buy an accord last july. and my beloved jetta was only in the shop once outside of regular maintenance.
~alpha
Thanks,
AS
No, the versions of the 3.0l Duratec in the Taurus and Sable do not require premium fuel, 87 octane unleaded is recommended. The same goes for the version in the Escape and Mazda Tribute. The higher compression and higher performance version of the Duratec used in the Lincoln LS and Jaguar X-Type and S models do require premium. I'm not sure about the Mazda 6.
Yes, Taurus is not leading the pack at the moment in some safety features and Ford is letting Taurus slip, as the 500 and Futura take its place. So what? With 500 being introduced this year and Futura next, why dump money into a platform that is being phased out?
Fact is until just recently Taurus has been a safety leader, being one of the first to implement dual stage airbags that depower depending on severity of crash, seat positions and driver weight. This was in the 2000 model year, really not that long ago when you think of it. Please don't give me crap about Taurus not having rear disc brakes, as anyone who knows anything about vehicle dynamics will know that the vast majority of all braking force is done by the front brakes. Yes it is missing rear head rests and side curtain airbags-old news.
If you are like Venus and buy a new car every three years or so, don't get a Taurus as it does indeed depreciate quicker. If you keep your cars ten years or so like I do, then depreciation means nothing, as almost every car is worth very little when ten years old. Up front cost is more critical. If you want to save more yet, buy a 1-3 year old used Taurus and save even more.
I really truthfully don't care if I have the most current safety features, as I will always be behind the curve a few years down the road anyway. My own defensive driving skills mean more to my individual safety than all the airbags in the world. Yes I can't control my destiny 100%, but neither will side curtain airbags.
Come this fall and next year, Ford will have competitive cars with innovative transmission, with more safety features than anything out there today available at reasonable prices, so continuing to trash Taurus is pointless.
but dang it all, this car (and the futura) should be out now! if ford wants to offer a budget car that's fine but also offer alternatives.
That good ole 3 liter duratech is a very good engine and will likely provide acceptable performance for most, especially when combined with either a six speed or CV transmission, and if Ford wishes the 3 liter Duratech could be tweaked for greater output. Whether they will or not is not clear, but they can do it, as it has been done to it in Lincoln LS and Mazda 6.
As I understand it, a 3.5 liter Duratech is due out in 500's second model year, which should sell to those who think they can never have enough power.
Maybe your Accord will last that long Venus, so you can consider these new Fords!
When I bought my car back in 2000, some of these options were not available in any car. Technology advanced immensely in 4 years making my car somewhat obsolete in safety features. The Sable wasn't state of the art on safety department like Volvo is, but it was (and it is) ranked as a safe car.
My kids were younger then and instead of buying a van I decided to get my station wagon because it's a car and therefore somewhat easier to drive and less cumbersome than a minivan. No SUV's for me.
Station wagons are proven to be less stolen than cars. My station wagon has a convenient, although small wheel well under the cargo area deck where one can store items in. I have the deck covered with a large rubber mat. And since I drive to work and park in a high crime area, having a car with a trunk would be tempting for a thief to pry it open. I had that happened to my 91 Camry.
One thing that no other car had 4 years ago was adjustable brakes; a very good safety feature. I am 5' 7" tall and can sit far from the steering wheel and reach the pedals which means that in a collision the chance of having my face injured by the air bag deploying are fewer than seating closer to reach pedals.
I'd better leave it here because I sound like a commercial.
My vehicle is in for some bodywork (minor parking lot collision, not my fault) and meanwhile it's getting some maintenance done. I was going to go for the whole 30K Tune-Up (what the owner's manual recommends), but then discovered it was over $400-- is this normal? Anybody else paid close to this much?
So I opted for just the tranmission flush because I know ya'll have mentioned the importance of it--and that alone is over $100. My boyfriend hadn't thought it would reach triple digits but he's at work so I'm just going to go ahead with it I guess.
Just wondering what else everybody else has paid for these kind of things and how much of this recommended maintenance is really necessary for a lightly, carefully driven vehicle. I'm not very mechanically inclined.
Sara
Price sounds about right for a dealer done transmission fluid and filter change. Could be done elsewhere for less, likely, but if you are still under warranty, I would do it at the dealer, which is what I did for my 30K service.
Things you can easily do yourself: Air filter change, cabin air filter change, inspect fluid levels. You can usually buy a brand name aftermarket air filter for $5-$10 and cabin air filter for $15-$20 and both are fairly easy to do yourself.
Things that are unlikely to need inspection at 30K: Belts, hoses, brakes.
I would recommend a cooling system flush and fill, which in the Milwaukee area you can get done for $50-$70. Usually those services include hose inspection and pressure test.
You might need a tire rotation-cost usually $10-$25. Oil change if you are due.
That's about all I can think of.
Brake fluid and power steering fluid change? I have never have done this on any vehicle I have owned and have not had any problems as a result. There is nothing in the service recommendations either, so in my opinion is this is overkill.
Every 2 years regardless of your milage, those things need to be changed.
Leaving break fluid in the system more than 2 years will cause severe rust in all break components (pistons and lines) (except pads) and will damage you ABS module and shortens the life of your calipers and ABS. You can end up by replacing entire ABS module for at least $700-$800.
But, brake fluid flush cost you only $50-$60.
It is very easy to do it and I flush mine every year. The cost is $3-$4 and 1 hour labor.
THe same is valid for PS fluid...
Also had a 1990 Taurus for ten years and 98K miles and only replaced pads and rotors once, no other brake service ever done and no problems. Same goes with power steering fluid.
Brake fluid flush and power steering flush are not required in my opinion and based on my experience of over 30 years owning and driving a variety of cars and vans.
If you bleed your brake system, the fluid smells burnt and looks like used engine oil. New brake fluid is like campagne color.
Brake fluid absorbs moisture and this lowers boiling point of the fluid. This is science...
I am not here to convince you. You go head and do what you have been doing.
I did brake fluid chage in my 1994 Taurus and it seems that it was never done before. Fluid was extremely durty, I wasted lot of fresh fluid trying to flush brake system clean, but it was so dirty so I gave up. Even fresh fluid in master cylinder still has a green color. It is sign of copper oxidation.
So what happens when you don't change brake fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic and collects water over the time. It also collects dirt from brake system. All together can cause brakes to fail. E.g. when there is a lot of water in fluid when you make often or panic braking - fluid gets hot and water starts boiling. Boiling water generates wapor so brakes will fail.
BTW in Europe brake fluid change is mandatory.
What was you squence when you were bleeding the system? It should be left rear, left front, left rear and right front. If you follow this, you'll waste much less fresh fluid.
If you don't push the pistons back dirty fluid will not go into ABS module, it is very important that you will bleed the system first before you change your pads. Otherwise, when you install ticker pads you have to push pistons back.
BTW you don't need to bring car to shop, I don't beleive they have any idea how to change a brake fluid let alone using an adaptor and it is time consuming for them. Dealer asks about $150, but again are they following procedures you do not know. In America the tradition is no need to brake fluid change, but replace engine oil every 3,000 miles with low quality mineral oil.
Brake fluid change will take 20 minutes if you have someone to help you with pushing gently (to drain fluid) or pumping the pedal (to remove air bubles) on your command. At least Chilton desribed procedure very well. But even there I didn't find a recommendation for brake fluid change interval, that seems weird to me.
I can't believe dealer asks $150 for that service...
Last year I bought a pump o replace the fluid but the purchase was right after change interval so I couldn't use it yet. I am due around June, I will try it see how it goes...
Manufacturers will take you to cleaner for any brake system problem occurs after 3/36 period. An ABS module is starting around $700-$800, calipers, hoses and labor...
Certainly, they won't tell you anything for fluid replacement.
European nations are very well regulated than US.
Just got through watching the Ford/Doral golf tournament. The Mustang retro styling is way cool as is the GT 500. They gave us a good look at the Ford 500, and I must say, styling wise....it's ugly.
It can be the safest car in the world, (remember those old shoe box volvos?)and I know the Duratech is a great engine, but at the end of the night do you want to leave the bar with the girl that has the best personality?.
I'm keeping my eyes open for a nice used Lincoln LS or a Taurus SES
BTW: Tauruses have the worst resale value, so to most it's not the "prettiest girl".
Good point but I'm sticking with my new girlfriends sister, ala a used Taurus or Sable.It seems the deals out there are tremendous on slightly used executive or program cars. I love the Lincoln LS too.
I'm not leaving the brand, but it's got to have some styling appeal for me. The Taurus, Sable and Lincoln LS have the qualities I'm after. Power, performance and good looks!!
Taurus/Sable have a subdued but not boring personality, and they still look good. Predictability and dependability are important.
Just a thought.