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Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008
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Comments
The front bumper did its job well. I must' ve been going at about 25 mph when I hit the van, and the bumper held. The assembly behind was bent like a V. I don't think the engine sustained damage. At least I didn't see any, I'm not sure though. There was substantial damage on the right quarter panel
I slammed on the brakes (ABS) and was able to reduce speed but couldn't bring my car to a full stop without hitting the other vehicle. My body lurched forward with force but I felt the seat belt tightening and holding me in place. My arms and face touched the deploying airbags which came out of the steering wheel in a spilt second. Then, I felt my body and head falling back against the seat violently. I don't think the head rest held my neck all that well though. It seemed too high, and it had been set at its lowest position. Truth is that the car didn't appear all that damaged. It'll be sold at an auction. Somebody will buy it, fix it and enjoy it.
The 300C is a luxury sedan with a powerful 8-cylinder engine, whereas the Taurus is a mid-size entry level sedan (with mine having quite a few options), which I think is quite clear in list prices. A 300C starts at around $32k, and fully loaded can run close to $38k or $39k (which I think that for everything you are getting is an absolute bargain) whereas the Taurus runs about $26k fully loaded.
Both drive very differently, and each has their own pro's and cons, but they are two different vehicles...not even really in the same class.
AS
I've been considering a used Taurus as a commuter car because of the excellent crash test ratings. It's good to hear a real-world story backing up the tests. Frankly though, the other aspect that makes me lean Taurus-ward rather than Accord-ward is the much more rapid depreciation of the Taurus. It makes a used one a much more attractive economic decision.
PS. What happened to the related tongue-in-cheek post about the miserable, law-suit-happy mentality so prevalent in America today?
So armed with $12200, Edmunds.com and Cars.com invoice prices, cash rebates and dealer's incentives and having done research on the 2004 Taurus and Sable, wife and I stopped by at the nearest and friendliest Ford dealer.
We went to 2 Ford dealers and 1 Lincoln-Mercury dealer, and in each and every one of these show rooms we met the biggest scam artists, double talkers, layers, who were very good at bait and switch tactics. They tried to sell us the highest trims (Taurus'SES and SEL and Sable's LS)and charged us extra for sunroof and leather, which we didn't want any way but were willing to compromise. Also, none of these dealers honored the invoice prices from Cars.com and Edmunds.com. They came up with $3000 over invoice.
The second Ford dealer had several and 04 Tauri on the lot, which were former rentals. Price was $13000 with 26000 miles. They looked suspicious to me. My wife really liked these cars and tried hard to convince me to buy. I felt really quizzy about these cars, sensing that something was amiss. The used car manager with his patronizing attitude contributed to make me feel unsure regarding these cars. While the salesman followed me like a shadow and constantly talking to me trying to make me buy.
At one point while checking out one of the cars, I happened to open the glove box and pulled out the owner's manual. On the cover it said "This Taurus is a lemon, POS, gas guzzling crap return to godamn dealer". We walked the hell out of there!!!
I want to note that I was in real hurry to buy. This was Saturday and the following Monday I was returning my rental car to the rental company. My insurance company was doing me a favor and paid an extra 3 days for the rental. Usually when the owner's car is declared a total loss the insurer stops paying for the rental right of way. So we were very serious about buying a car right there and then. I didn't go with any kind of negative attitude to dealers and never wanted or expected the car for free. I was told, however, by the Lincoln-Mercury manager that they would want to make a minimum of $500 on the car. We felt that they wanted to make quite a bit more than that. But it's okay, they are entitled to make whatever they want on the cars they sell. I wasn't going to let them make a big profit on my expense.
I forgot to say that we also looked into buying rental a Taurus or Sable from the rental car company. On their web site they claim to subject every car to a through 109 point inspection and replace worn parts, etc. They also say that they clean their cars completely. They don't haggle on prices. For $11399 they had cars with 26000 miles on the odometer. The don't have the Duratech engine and some of the features I had in my Sable. I went armed with a list of things to check to find out whether the cars were in any kind of accident. Didn't notice anything.
While walking around the lot with the salesman I decided to elicit some more info. about their car refurbishing practices. So I sat in one car and I told the guy that the car smelled and didn't look all that clean to me. His reply was: "Sir, we run these cars through the car wash and vacuum them." Call me picky and difficult but I follow my instincts so I politely pulled my wife out of there and went home. By the way, the rental car I drove was an 03 Focus. Nice car.
307web
The 300 isn't in the same class as the Taurus/Sable. The Taurus/Sable are in the same class as the Accord, Camry, and Intrepid. The 300 is (supposed) to be a drivers car. The Sable/Taurus is a family "truckster". Don't get me wrong, we've had 4 Sables. They were good cars. for what they were. Essentially, FWD appliances.
Really, when I have bought both Tauri, I shopped about three or four dealers. Some were better than others but none seemed to be actual scumbags. I think it is largely the luck of the draw with any of them as there are good and bad salesmen working for the same dealer. I have ended up buying from the same dealer both times, and while the salesmen were not the most competent, they were civil and most importantly got down to the minimum price quickly, once they realized I was serious to buy and was well informed with good knowledge of invoice, holdback, rebates available, and I had already narrowed down my minimum requirements.
The service department has been absolutely outstanding, even though I use them sparingly, only for the few warranty and recall items I have had, and a few more major routine maintenance things such as transmission fluid changes.
As far as Lincoln LS is concerned, yes the base model is't much more expensive than a loaded Taurus or Sable and I woul consider one, but I believe danielj6 is looking for a wagon right?
They actually consider the 300 "C" a separate model.
In my case, I saw an opportunity which I considered to be pretty decent money for the station wagon and then going out and buying a brand new Sable or Taurus. But it was not to be. I was outwitted and manipulated by questionable business practices and lousy characters. Despite the fact that any dealer can try to screw me in every which way, I still have the final control. I take my business elsewhere. Ford would've had a loyal customer in me.
So after returning home Saturday evening frustrated and angry I went on line to Edmunds and Cars.com, put down my request for a Toyota Camry specifying year, model and options and pressed click. On Sunday within 2 hours I received 2 e-mails from different dealers. Monday I was at work so my wife spoke to dealers on the phone.
That same day, went home picked wife up, returned the Focus to the rental company and I had them give us a lift to Plaza Toyota. It took me half an hour to actually buy a car. No games, gimmicks, lies, BS or bait and switch tactics. It took the dealer 3 more hours to get the car, prep it and install or activate a security system. That same evening I drove home with my brand new car.
I didn't wind up getting a Camry because there was a difference of over $5000 between the Camry and the Corolla (both comparably equipped), so I got the former. You guys are probably saying that the accident affected my brain. How come I got I car that is substantially smaller and therefore less safe than the Sable. Basically, was economics. I would've kept my Sable for at least 3 more years, so I didn't want to divert funds to buying a new car this year. While trying to get a new Taurus or Sable, I really believed that I could make a killing. Camry doesn't come with more than $1000 rebate, Corolla has no rebates on this particular trim. But is way, way below 20 grand. So after everything was said and done between the money from the insurance company and the price of the Toyota, I shelled out only 5 grand.
Oh yes, I still miss the roomy, comfy, strong, powerful station wagon with a wonderful Duratech and 200 ponies under the hood. It looked great, really and it felt like a I was riding in a safe. I sent a letter to FOMoCo telling them of my experiences, and not that they'd give a damn but they need feedback from customers.
You probably could have gotten a great deal on a leftover 2004 Focus for even less as the 2005 freshened ones are out, but the deed is done.
Too bad you got caught up with some crummy Ford dealers. They can make all the difference.
Enjoy your Corolla. I am sure it is a good car, with most of the complaints centered about the odd driving position for some people. Hope it fits you OK. It is better looking than the ungainly Camry, in my opinion, and certainly less expensive.
Dealers in our area sell new Tauruses for $15,000. Similar Camry is for $16,500. Top of line Sable or Tuarus you can get probably for $18,000-19,000.
BTW, I don't know anyone who ever had a payoff from an accident who "made a killing!".
Good luck and I hope you are happy, I hear the front seats of the Corolla are some of the worst out there for long distance travel!
You guys need to understand that my life changed in a matter of seconds, and then I was forced to make decisions about getting another car that I wasn't ready to make. When you decide to trade in your car or sell it because you want to get another car is a planned decision. I was under pressure to buy something fairly soon, I began to run into all kinds of roadblocks. I believe that these dealers saw me vulnerable and tried to exploit it to their benefit.
As far as the rental Tauri I saw, I realized now that I was comparing them to my Sable and none of them measured up.
The Ford Focus, although very nice especially the wagon version, didn't do very well in government's crash tests. However the Corolla did, especially the bumpers. The Camry XLE would've cost as much as a top of the line Sable and Taurus.
I didn't want to talk too much about my Corolla because this isn't a Toyota thread. Let me just say that its only downfall is the driver's seat. The rest is a mini Camry, high quality materials and fully equipped for not much money. The only items I no longer have are heated outside mirrors and traction control. Otherwise, I have the same equipment I had in the Sable. Oh, of course less horse power but then this car is lighter than the previous one. Range of miles between fill ups is really good. It's roomy and its trunk is spacious. This is no econobox. My decision to go non Ford was purely out of spite and impulsive.
These few days I really hijacked this board. But I got very good feedback from everyone and it's appreciated because it help put things into perspective and gave the opportunity to process
the grief of this past month and a half.
I'll stick around and continue to read and avail my self of your expertise. I'll continue to be a fun of Sable and Taurus cars.
It isn't that I ended up with a car I didn't want just to spite the dealers. The car I bought I like very much. I just took my business elsewhere, and this is what I wrote Ford in a detailed letter. This is to spite Ford. Dealers don't give a damn and probably forgot me.
upsetter1: If I could've purchased a top of the line Sable or Taurus I would've bought it. I presented these dealers several invoices copied from the internet(Edmunds.com, Cars.com and KBB.com)which showed $20500 after cash rebates, incentives and hold backs with a certain profit margin for the dealer. They took their time looking at them and came back with over $23000. This occurred at the L-M dealership. The 2 other Ford dealers rejected these invoices right away.
If they come back to me and offered me $21500, okay we have $1000 difference to negotiate. $3000 is just excessive, and leaves no room for negotiation.
I know the drill well because I did my homework. Ford is not selling these cars well. Dealers are stocked and it's the Summer time. Ford is coming out with new models, and I thought dealers would want to get rid of their stock quickly.
chuck1: The rental company invited me to see their cars; they had 152 cars (on different locations) of different makes. They also had Camrys but they lacked features such as side impact airbags and anti lock brakes, and went for about $15000. My Corolla cost me a little bit more than that but it came with more safety features and more options than those Camrys. I don't think I got a lesser car at all. I won't compare my Corolla to the Sable because they're different cars and this thread is not about that.
And when I say making a killing I'm referring to buying a new Taurus of Sable for a very good price, which at the time I believed I could.
The first dealer wanted to charge me MSRP on a SES or SEL, the second Ford dealer wanted to have my credit card to show that I was serious about buying, and that they could offer me $23500 if a financed through Ford credit. All this after I stated my intentions to buy on the spot and pay cash with no test drive. My offer was $20500 for a top of the line Taurus or Sable.
In retrospect,I could've made my search wider without limitations of distance, and in the end I would've probably ended up with the car I wanted. After three experiences,however,I felt I've had enough and went elsewhere where I encountered people who wanted to do business in an expeditious manner with no BS. In the future I wont walk in to any showroom like a turkey. I'll go back to internet sites for a new car, and let them put me in touch with dealers. In searching for a Toyota, I received about 10 e-mails at different days from different dealers and with firm prices.
If you had tried to negotiate with the Toyota dealers in the same way that you did with the Ford dealer, the same result may have happened, so it is an apples to oranges comparison.
My approach is when a dealer tries to push a deal, saying it might not be available tomorrow or next week, I tell them that I am sure they will be willing to sell me a car next week, next month, or next year and that I can drive what I have until that time. Even if I did have an immediate need to replace a totalled car, I would never let on to a dealer what my situation is.
I just saw a dealer ad in our Sunday paper for a base new 2004 Sable with all rebates for under $13K. A pretty well fully loaded new Taurus or Sable sedan should go for under $20K easy(not including tax, title and license transfer), in my opinion, with the wagons just a bit more.
The invoice price is 19,339 for a base LX with no options. Then a $3000 rebate is $16339 and then maybe another $1000 off at most to cover other dealer incentives, holdbacks etc is still $15339. Even if you qualify for the College Grad rebate on top of that will be in the $14K+ range.
Sounds like they will say it was already sold when you show up and actually try to buy one at that price.
Just because there is an ad in the paper doesn't mean you can really buy for that price.
Maybe it was a demo with several thousand miles that they marked down for the ad is the only other possibility I see to get into the sub $13K range for a "new" Taurus.
A 2 year old Taurus for around $7K with some factory warranty left is a good buy.
If it has under 36K miles, you can still purchase the ESP PremiumCare warranty if the prior owner didn't and have at least 4 years of good service and bumper to bumper warranty for under $10K including taxes. Plus you might be able to resell it after 3 years for around 50% of what you paid if it still has some of the extended warranty transferable to the next private party.
That's all he said and continue to sat there like a bus instead of engaging us and try to address our needs. We left.
The second dealer was a L-M showroom. After spending some time with what seemed a wishy-washy looking salesman during a rainy Labor Day afternoon, I deemed it strategically appropriate to appeal to their compassion and mentioned that my beloved Sable was totaled in an accident. I was lured back to the showroom several days later under pretenses that "Ford had just upped the cash to customer rebate". So wife and yours truly marched back to the dealership really enthused that that same Saturday afternoon we'd be returning with a shiny new Merc. Sable. I initially didn't want leather or moonroof, but decided to settle for a car with these features because these guys had sold the 04 black Sable fully equipped and without leather and moonroof that was available on Monday and that they had promised to keep until Saturday and without a deposit. On Saturday the car was " just sold to Enterprise rental car". Enterprise closes at noon on Saturday, and by now it was 3 o'clock. But okay, we're ready to buy here and now, these are invoices from internet sites. You know the rest.
Next, we went to a Ford dealer, and they tried to play other games out of their never ending hat of dirty tricks.
The rental Tauri I saw were mainly at Enterprise, which I rented the Focus from. These cars were 03's with 26000 and went for $11399. They had some power features with Vulcan engines. The interior looked in need of a shampoo job, and the exterior had some minor dings. It's difficult to impossible to drive in NY and keep the car immaculate. My Sable had only one ding in 4 years. But basically these cars looked like they had lived a hard life. I became ambivalent. Perhaps I passed up a good opportunity.
Now, I can't get used to that the emergency brake is no longer on the left and that I used to engage it with my foot. The transmmision lever is no more steering wheel mounted but is floor mounted. Radio controls are different. But other than that, I parked my Toyota easily and in small places. Parking in NY is at a premium. Gas consumption is real great, but with 70 fewer ponies. Awful looking BMW, MB's and similar vicious evil types leave me in the dust and give no second thought about cutting me off. My Sable left some of the above mentioned evil doers behind in seconds.
Oh well
I called the stearlership. of course no one wanted to take the call. was told the manager will call me back.
Be aware of stealership jacking up the prices.
They are THEIEVES trying to steal your money by offering unnecessary services. They prey on female most of the time!
I had a similar experience with a Buick dealership when my blower fan went out. I took the car over to the dealership and told them to replace the blower fan. Well they charged me an hour labor ($82.50) for diagnosis and another hour labor for installation plus the price of the blower. The total charge was around $350.
Needless to say I haven't been back.
Keep in mind that service departments are a money making center for most dealerships. They just break even or even lose money on new cars. Service and used cars support everything.
Thanks.
Dealers know that a lot of their customers stray and go to private shops for service and repairs. So dealers have been aggressively pursuing customers to lure them back with convenient appointment hours and minimum time spent at the shop. Also dealers trumpet that their mechanics are "factory trained and know your .........."
Ford's Lincoln division just got high marks from J.D. Power and Associates about these issues. However, the study by Power, I believe, includes dealer service during the first three years of ownership. Ford and Mercury dealers, according to the survey, are also improving.
Manufacturers encourage customers to avail themselves of dealer service depts. and encourages dealers to follow the new car buyer closely so he or she will not stray. But personally I wouldn't take my car to the dealer for more than two initial services, and not even that. Unless, there is some work to be done under warranty.
Just not at my expense!. My 2000 Sable LS is at 90,000 and going strong. Am planning for another 100,000 miles. I do my own oil and filter. Antifreeze flushes, and anything more I shop around.
I think is great that you do basic maintenance on your Sable.
Once I took my Sable to the dealer for some warranty work, and a very pretty girl greeted my when I drove in. That's got it cost extra. There is however and element of trust missing or lacking about using dealers' shops. There is nothing they do or give for free. My dad used to tell me when I was a kid that the dealer charges for shaking hands with you.
I already received several notifications from Toyota and the dealer for schedule maintenance. The first service which is a lube and filter change is free. My wife is really excited about it. I told her that it's only about $25.00, and it's to hook me for ever. They'll get their money back in th future with unnecessary and useless maintenance.
Yeah I know, let's keep it Taurus/Sable.
My point is that is the nature of the business regardless of brands. Manufacturers, painfully aware that customers take their cars to private shops, initiated, in conjunction with dealers, a very strong PR campaign to lure us back to service depts.
Be aware, stay informed!
Since she is still under warranty, the help you can give her is to tell her to get it fixed under warranty. No cost and that is what the warranty is for.
I do not think this is a widespread problem.
Anyway I suggest that if the car runs well and is paid for that you just keep it. It's not worth very much anymore so you'll need to drive it to get any value out of it. A new car is going to cost you much.
As far as head gaskets, Well the Fords of that vintage from about 1995 to 1999 have been known to have problems with their head gaskets. It was something about the gasket material that they used. They saved about $0.50 a car and caused many of their customers to pay for major head gasket repairs.
By the way, what does a head gasket job cost for a 1995 Mustang ?
For 1999 model years I would guess transmissions might be most suspect, but given the vast numbers of Tauri/Sables on the road, picking up a rebuilt one shouldn't be that expensive. I would stick with a 30K transmission fluid change schedule.
Slovikovsky, at the low rate you are putting miles on the car, less than 4k a year, you should be good for at least ten more years with your Taurus. No need to invest in something expensive when you are putting that low mileage on per year.
Anyway...does anyone know, for sure, where the module is that I need to get the code from??
Thanks!!!
Allen
The dealer should be able to either lookup the correct code, and if they can't, then yes, you will have to hook up the car to a computer to get the code.
You can check some of your door jambs, particularly the trunk area. See if you have any access panels in the trunk that come off (IE for a CD Changer), and see if they have it in there.
Also, I know its far fetched, but perhaps under the hood?
Sorry I can't be of more help.
AS
If you bought it private party, can you contact them and get the code? If you bought from a used car dealer or new car dealer, they should be responsible for getting you the code or reprogramming it no charge, as in my opinion, you did not get the car complete if you did not get the code or a reprogrammed keypad.