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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005
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Comments
Yes you are right I almost considered a loaded V6 altima until I sat in the interior, felt the horrendous torque steeir and was told that their cost was $26k I would have to do alot better, this was in 2002, so I said NO WAY. This was at several dealers in Bergen county NJ.
Yes the 2004 GP interior is IMPROVED from the 1997 interior, better leather/seats, I love the new speedometer, with metal accents, but the rest of it still feels cheap to me. I like the trip computer better on the '97 bigger and easier to read. Many imports of 1997 still have better interiors then the 04 GP... .GM just need to work on it. we have seen some improvements, maybe more are in the works, and I buy my cars for then just interior. Otherwise I wouldn't have bought 2 GTP
If you remember back in '97 GP touted the new GP sedan as having coupe styling too, even Volve does now, that is BS to me, it's either a coupe or it's not. To me a coupe evoke a sporiter/head turner of a car.. whats next a 4 door corvette? Just kidding.
Many people are under the false assumption that coupes are small and for younger people, I'm not young and the GTP coupe is the SAME SIZE as the GTP sedan, same 99 cu ft and 16 cu ft trunk. The GTP was $1k cheaper in coupe form another incentice people forget about in '97, forget the dif in '02?
My father who is 80 thoughy my coupe was VERY ROOMY in the backseat.
that is why I own one of both, 2001 I30t Sedan, 2002 GTP coupe and now 2004 GTP sedan company car. Anything that I buy that fits in the sedans will fit in my coupe. To each their own on the sedan/coupe issues..
Have you ever owned a mid or full sized coupe before? I have owned both and know.
My friends 2001 Honda Accord 150 hp 4 banger is noisy and slow and has some plastics just as cheap as my 2002 GTP, yet that never gets mentione in reviews.. esp the annoying shaking at idle at stoplights from the 4 banger.
What about the 3.0 Toyota/Lexus V6 sludge problems or Honda extending its warranty to 6yr 100 k on certain 1998-2001 auto trannies attached to V6's? Esp on the odyseey of 1999-2001? NOtice, knowone ever mentions that?
Or the weathet stipping and pwr door breaking on my 80yr old dads 1999 Odyssey the day he got it new...
GM is not bad as people make it out to be. Esp with the incetives and rebates, it makes a great buy.
When CO\nsurmer reports recently rated the240hp V6 Altima, and 240hp V6 accord, they only tested the 200hp Grand Prix GT, didn't test the 240/260 hp GTP, yet they tested honda's and nissan's best? Whats up with that? They said they couldn't obtain a GTP, to me that is NOT a fair competition then...
Knowone points out the V6 Accord Sedans WORST IN CLASS .76 skidpad either... I drove one, at itls limits the GTP easily handled it.
Whatever...
Take a look at the discussions on the News & Views board. You'll probably find a better place to pursue some of the questions you have just raised.
And then there are the individual discussions on the vehicles you mention, as well a number of specific comparisons on our Comparisons board - upon which any new comparison discussion may be started.
Your ticket to the correct discussions lies in the search features on the left side of the page. Check them out!
And as always, feel free to email me if I can help you find what you are looking for.
:-)
BTW, the activity on this GP board has really heated up in the last couple of months or so. For a minute, I had to double check to see that I wasn't reading the Honda board. ;-)
American brands are typically under rated and Japanese brands are typically over rated.
Honda can do no wrong. Even crap like the Element get praise while the equally ugly Aztek gets panned.
Toyota can do no wrong either. These new Scion vehicles are crap also but the press won't say anything bad about them.
I still have not tested a new GP but I do own a w-body Intrigue and it's been a fantastic car. Yes I do think GM has a little ways to go in quality but the strides I have seen lately are impressive and quality gap is small enough to ignore IMO.
gunit- i do agree somewhat that they should have had a new coupe grand prix for 204, but I think Pontiac figured the GTO would ultimately give coupe buyers most of what is wanted right now from pontiac that has been missing for so long....a comfortable coupe with the v8 and rear drive. It is tightwaddish for GM not to make companion GP coupe for this new body as so many other makers go to the trouble and even back in 97 Pontiac made the claims that the 4 door and 2 door GP were so similar there were very very few dissimlar parts.
that said, considering how dull and derivative the 2004 turned out it may have actually hurt them PR wise to have a 2 door GP with such a crappy rear seat, cheap plastic, and offers not much new into the automotove market in turems of style, or technology. Making a 2 door GP would have raised the expectation as coupes are to be better than sedans performance wise. So the GTO really becomes the halo car and the car for those who want the coupe.
Maybe the next 'real' Grand Prix will return as a coupe. The 2004 is merely a stop gap which was too far in motion before Lutz could order a clean sheet approach.
The Grand Prix and Sunfire cannot carry the torch for Pontiac performance coupes because they
a) don't perform
b) have no technology. just this year sunfire gets OHC (finally, an engine not better suited to a lawn tractor!). Grand Am's v6 is high tech......for 1986.
c) are ugly
d) have such bad stigmas in the market
e) aren't nice to sit in anyways with the sea of cheap cloth and plastic
f) neither are phat or have street cred
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_053192
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_053187
stuff like this alone is a reason why people see GM interiors as flawed, when 'lowly' Fords have nicer interiors than CTS cadillacs.
offered as an example of how much better the GP would be perceived if they had just went a bit further in the interiors department.
I don't like the Pontiac GP interior. But, I don't think it fair to compare it to interiors of cars sold in Europe for far higher prices to a much more discriminating audience.
reg : Element is no less odd than the Aztek and no more functional other than you can put stuff into it. It also got poor side impact ratings which means it's likely a death trap if you get hit on the side.
reg : Most of your critic of the GP are yours. Don't confuse your opinion with that of the market. If 260hp doesn't perform, I don't know what does and I somehow doubt you know whats "phat" on the street.
The 2004 is ok, but is nothing more then a rebadged/reskinned 1997 !!
I moddified my 1997 and 2002 GTP from the stock 240hp to 300+hp, 240hp was NOT enough for me... Those Crappy undersized P225 60 16 Good Year Eagle RSA tires are not good that the GTP came with. I went with P245 50 16, big dif. I also updated the brakes and suspension, after hopping in a regular unmodded GTP it feels slow and sluggish.
Like I said before, all cars have their pluses/minuses, there is NO perfect car out there, esp for me. Everycar has a drawback and with the GTP its the chessy interior and so-so build quality/reliability, that has always plagued the W Body, but I bought it for the cheap price/ good looks/price got and good peformance and decent room. if the GP was a sedan only in 1997-2002 I would NOT have bought it.
Regfootball, Have you even driven a 04 GP? The car is not aimed at the "phat" crowd.
Midlifecrisis, The centre stack of the GP may be hard plastic but it's matted and nice quality. I'm not sure why people think hard plastic = cheap. I personally like the lay out and I don't think it looks any worse than the Altima, though it's probably not as nice as the Accord.
About Honda's problems I admit they have to watch themselves. I think they had so many products they were making from 1998-2001 that quality did slip with the tranny stuff. I don't think these things will ever happen again with Honda.
About Toyota I'm not really into them. Only a few products I like from them.
American brands do stuff wrong too though if you look at it: Dodge Caravan's blowing tranny's, Ford tarus's with head gaskets blowing and Ford Escape starting and stalling problems.
As far as comaring an 01 Accord with a 4 cylinder engine to a GP GTP 2002 witha V6 thats a little different. Of course a 4 cyl Accord is going to be slower than a competitors V6. A 2001 Accord has a better interior than an 02 GP.
I've owned a 02 Chevy Avalanche for almost 1.5 years and it has 17K miles. The vehicle has been stellar. 285 HP, pulls my trailer like it isn't even there. Excellent design ideas for unique storage compartments, etc. Midgate down allows me to store 8' sheets of plywood, locked and dry. Midgate up allows me to tote around 6 adults in comfort. Any Japanese models that can do that? The only problem I've had is some moisture in one fog light. That's it.
I think GM has come a long way, baby.
Replaced trunk latch
soaked carpets, A/C leaking into the car, not under
HVAC bearing failed
Both headlights replaced due to moisture
new trunk pistons
alternator and waterpump went bad
auto headlight sensor failed 3 dif x
wiper motor recall
right rear speaker went bad
replaced blower motor
AC delco battery only lasted 1 yr
new valve coveor gaskets, oil leaking
check engine light on, emissions problem fixed
coolant leak, thermostat/gasket went bad
Catalytic heat shield replaced was loose/rattling
Tire rod ends loose, replaced under warranty only after major argument at dealership at only 30k miles.
Thankgod this was all covered under warranty and extended warranty, otherwise I Loved the car
Only knock was the cheap interior and somtimes loud/crude engine sound under high rpm from 3800, but great car and I bought another in 2002 figuring they go the the bugs out, great car
Domesticsa and ameican cars have problems, domestics have more historically, but I don't think the imports are as great as the reviews report them to be and I know from owning a 2001 infiniti I30t, Very nice car, but it has also had it's share of problems. MOre then my GP's have had since December 2001.
I just get sick and tired of these people that tell me that honda/toyota never break down and never have problems which is BS... they may have less problems, but they still do nevertheless. My friend is trading in his 2001 Accord, its going on its 2nd tranny and a myriad of CD/radio and electrical problems, yet its the perfect car right? He just had to spend $700+ on a ABS brake repair since he is now out of warranty and up to 40k miles on the '01. His lease is coming up. He is looking at a new GP, esp driving my MODDIFIED 2002, but I warned him they all don't drive that way, he! he!
But the fact still remains that Honda had problems with it's auto trannies on 1998-2001 V6 Odysseys and other vehicles and even extended the warranty to like 6yr 100k? Toyota had the 3.0L V6 sludge problem which they tried to blame on consumer not changing the oil on time, but did at least extend teh warranty, so that was a nice gesture. Yet CR doesn't put on any HOnda/TOyota's on its Unreliable or used car list to avoid? WHy is that? I certainly would never buy a used 1998-2001 Honda or Toyota with the sludge 3.0l V6. TO each their own.
I like both domestic and foreign and I own one of each.
Consumere reports unfairly tested the new 240hp Accord, 240hp Altima and ONLY 200hp GP GT, they did NOT fairly use a GTP, yet that is ok? They claimed they couldn't obtain a GTP, yeah right. They said the same thing 3 yrs ago too. This test was done late last year. That was an unfair comparo.
Yes a comparo between my friends 4banger accord and my GTP is unfair I agree. BUt I could NOT stand that annoying semi-rough 4 banger idle at a light in his 2001 accord, typical of 4 banger cars. V6 and V6 are much smoother. Everytime we had to pull out onto a highway in his 4 banger 2001 with 4 adults inside he had to floor it to 5000rpm + just to get decent power...
loud and annoying. 4 banger accord is a great commuter car, not a great car to have 4 adults going out to dinner in. That is where the V6 is much better
Just like the 2004 Town Car/Crown Vic/Grand Marquis and Ford Mustang use the same chassis from 1978 !! But with major tweaks over the years. Most people don't know that !!
BTW, is the Accord all new or not? I know the drivetrain is....
I switched the headlights in my 2002 GTP to EUROLITE Xenon cyrstal bulbs, typical 9007's... much brighter lights, NOT as good as HID, faxu HID, but better.
Only $20.00 for the pair. The car looks much nicer at night. Best thing is that I didn't have to updgrade my wiring, though time will tell.
I don't feel like paying the $500 to $1000 for a true HID upgrade system.
These lights are near identical to the PIAA lights which are nearly 4 the price at $70 or $80
The 1997-2003 have NO locking gas cap or door. I fixed that with a $9.99 STANT brand locking cap. Don't need any vandals stealing my 93 octane gas or worse dumping something bad in my tank to ruin my fuel injectors.
I had someone actually pour sugar into my tank years ago and ruin fuel injectors/your name it. Big $$ to fix.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I wonder if the new GP being an evolutionary model has something to do with GM trying to improve quality.
IMO, a move in the right direction.
Always like most of the Grand Prixs:
- College roomie had a '72 GP Coupe w/428 in Gold that was to die for.
- Sister-in-Law won't give up her '76 GP Coupe and All the V8 power
I really like the looks of the 97-03 but still can't decide what color was best.
But I do think I like the 2004 in Black best. Now if I can just get GM to offer a few options I'd like and clean up a few faux pas with the interior. Well, maybe just maybe
I'd get a 04 GTP, but the lack of auto-dimming rearview mirror makes me worry. What are the chances they will make it available next year?
Just like they made ABS/Traction control a $600 option on the 2003 GP, yet it was std on every 1997-2002. They made the HUD an option on the 2003 GTP as well meanwhile it was std on the 2002 GTP. So much for progress? Just another way for GM to make more $$. Take std equipment away then charge for it as an option and keep the base price of the car the same or more. Gm isn't the only mfg that has done that.
Sure it is, because it will come here, most likely in the same form. How does an econocar car have a better interior than a 30,000 dollar performance sedan?
"I don't think it fair to compare it to interiors of cars sold in Europe for far higher prices to a much more discriminating audience."
"far higher prices"- show me its high, last i checked focus were staple commodity cars in europe
"much more discriminating audience"- that one I don't get at all....do we not deserve to get the same decent products? more discriminating? hardly, its the other way around. we continually get fed these fisher price GM interiors and after awile you have to live with it because they won't fricking produce an interior that's worth the price of the car. People are dsicriminating, but we're forced to settle because the domestics lower the bar for interior quality and use homer apology tactics to get buyers to beleive they should expect less than this basic level quality cars like Honda routinely offer in their interiors.
But then again, maybe you are right, a lot of Americans have embarrassingly low standards when it comes to what they will accept as transportation, and in a lot of the cars that sell in volume are fine examples.
If pontiac put the 4.4L 280hp V8 engine with the accord type interior in the 2004 GTP they would have a true winner !!! Pontiac keeps wondering why it's sales have dropped for 2 or 3 yrs in a row now...
Tehy call the 2004 a new GP when it uses the 1997 W body and drivetrain with minor tweaks here and there to the suspension . The 2004 is only a stopgap. The 1997 was the last truly NEW GP.
I only bought the 2002 GTP, because of the price... I paid LESS for my 2002 GTP coupe then my 1997. The solara and accord coupe were too small for me with not enough power. As we all know the 3800 is very cheap and easy to modify to 300 horse.
Also, Fisher Price stuff is simple, the average audience, after all, is three to eight year olds! Needless complexity and stuff that will break is out, simple fun is in. My Impala would come far closer to being Fisher Price than any complicated, busy Pontiac interior with all its "gee whiz" factor stuff...(the latest example being the shifter thingy on the steering wheel, instead of being on the shifter where it belongs--like other cars).
So why do you two call the GP interior Fisher Price? If it were, I, for one, would consider that a compliment.
gunit : Same engines/ transmissions in the 04 Accords, just tweaked.
gunit : With the Bonny on it's last leg, the GP is bound to get the 4.4L.
ruski : I can deal with a loose part of trim (always easy to fix). I can't put up with rattles, squeaks and reliability issues.
http://money.cnn.com/2003/07/08/pf/autos/bc.autos.durability/inde- x.htm?cnn=yes
Link to GM announcement:
http://media.gm.com/division/2004_prodinfo/pontiac/bonneville/ind- ex.html
Cheers,
- Ray
Interested in seeing how this GXP model will perform. . .
Thanks...
JohnclineII, sorry to be off topic !! I have kids, and fisher price strollers are garbage,I'm a Peg Perego, Maclaren and now bug a boo kind of guy for that stuff. Every fisher Price toy I have had has fallen apart, but that is apt to happen with young ones. and for the last time the GP interior is cheap and not up to the competitions standards. I love my now departed '97GTP and now '02 GTP coupe for their semi sporty intentions and great torque but I certainly didn't buy it for its interior. The Leather is more like pleather...thangod they improved that for '04. Sit in a new accord, then sit in the GP you will see the big diff. If Honda could only make their new Accord Sedan with the COUPE body I would trade my 2002 GTP in an instant. But I will see in 2006 what is avalable.
When Honda went to their NEW Accord for 2003 they put in a 5 spd auto, the previous generation '98-'02 had only a 4spd aut which was problematic when mated to the V6, Honda ext the warranty on 1999-2001 auto trannies in Odysseys in other vehicles? maybe the 5 spd corrected this? Good guess. Sorry about the confusion.
Roughly only 20% of Accords are sold with the V6, which is similar to how many GP's are sold with the supercharged engine !!
DIndak,
The 1995 Aurora was known for loose trim pieces as I later found out, easy to fix but annoying on a $33k car in 1995 !! even the dealer told me about circa 1997. Esp the moulding a round the rear window. The W bodies of 1997-2003 are known for rattles, squeaks and reliability issues but are IMPROVED from the 1988-1996 W bodies thankgod , hopefully they have even better fixed this for '04, only time will tell. My 1997 GTP was a rattlebox, the usual culprit in 1997-2003 GP is the door panel clips coming loose. In the dash too. The intrigue as well had it share of W body related problems too. But overall a decent platform. Knock on wood my 2002 GTP is so far rattle free !!! only 8k miles.