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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

1525355575887

Comments

  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    if not fisher price, then rubbermaid? tupperware?
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Regfootball, LOL.. I know, II hear ya, regardless I will say this one last time the GP interior, esp 97-03 was very cheap, I know firshand, the '04 isn't much of an improvement, it's a shame that GM can't do better in a car that comes close to $30k fully loaded interior wise in GTP form.

    The new Accord interior is just as nice as my Infiniti I30 interior.... Before I got out of it I almost thought I was in an infiniti/acura.
  • richm4richm4 Member Posts: 169
    If I remember correctly, one of the magazines coined that term when reviewing the 97 GP when it first came out back in 96. "Land-O-Plastic" too.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    dealer didn't have any available for a 24-hour test drive but let me take one for 2 hours.

    Great ride. Nice turning, although it was a bit floaty. I guess I need to try a Comp-G - dealer didn't have any of those.

    I liked how smooth the ride was and how quiet it was inside.

    I asked a colleague with manual 330i to race me a bit and he barely pulled away after 50mph. I actually stopped pushing GTP too hard for fear of cops.

    I always loved GTP's power and how it is always available.
    By comparison I often have to floor my Acura TL-S and wait for the little devils inside to wake up. Sometimes by the time they wake up it is too late to jump into a spot that was opened a second ago.
    With GTP - you see a spot, you point, you shoot, done.

    Also GTP felt like it had soft brakes, but actually they are not soft, they are smooth.
    After I drove the GTP, I got into my Acura TL-S and found myself overshooting stop lines.

    Something I didn't like - how the interior window sill looks from outside near the front window corner. Not a clean design when viewed from outside.

    GTP turns great but at the same time it feels floaty, I guess one can get used to that. Or get a Comp-G.

    Red glowing MPH in the speedo is annoying. I kept noticing it and thinking it was some kind f warning.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    The cheap looking interior was pretty much what pushed me to the Intrigue over a GTP coupe two years ago. While the Intrigue has a few parts that look a bit low end, for the most part it's interior is more upscale than the previous gen GP as well as the Regal. Mine now has 33K and there are very few rattles that I here. I'll have to disagree with you on the Honda Accord interior. The quality of the materials may be pretty good, but other than then electroluminescent instrument cluster nothing about it looks upscale. It still has all the personality of the control panel on my Kenmore washer. While not much better, the Camry's dash design looks better IMO. Of the import brands, I think the Mazda 6 is near the best in this class.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I have to admit, I'm not crazy about the red lights on the interior. I remember getting used to it on our 98, but never really liking it much. That said BMW does it so I guess until they stop, Pontiac is likely to keep with it.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    dindak, The red lights theoretically reduces eye strain/fatigue and is used in many aircraft, however at night you have headlights blaring at you I guess it doesn't help much. I kind of like the red lights. I first had used them in a friends 1988 BMW 528
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Ruski, the 330 has less hp and torque then the GTP and is a 7.0 second car, the GTP is a 6.6 second car. So yeah the GTP should be faster. A strut tower brace for a bout $119 will make a better dif in handling, it could also be the factory tires which are usually crappy on the GTPS

    >>By comparison I often have to floor my Acura TL-S and wait for the little devils inside to wake up. Sometimes by the time they wake up it is too late to jump into a spot that was opened a second ago.<<

    Ditto with my 227hp I30t, thats a SOHC or DOHC engine for you you have to wind them up like a sewing machine to get pwr from them, the VVT or vtech has helped with low end pwr, but still no match for the 3800. Esp the S/C 3800. Pushrod 3800 gives you instant response at nearly any rpm. My i30t dosen't make decent power until it is too late sometimes.. I agree. But once you are on it happily/refinely winds to its 6500rpm
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    The Intrigue interior is one of the nicest of any W Body. But like you said at 33k you are starting to get a few rattles, even the current W body of 1997 and on will rattle, more so then the accord.cams. The buld quality is just not as good. Getting there though. The ES300 has one of the best interiors I have personally sat in for that price range, The mark levinson and wood were much better then my I30t, but didn't feel like spending $5k more for the lexus which did not handle as good or fell as sporty to drive as the i30t. I don't care for the ES300/Camry looks when they redesigned them for '02?

    I have to disagree with you, The new accord interior is near luxury car territory, much better then any W body. Too bad they can't improve the ugly backend...

    Haven't sat in or drove the mazda 6 yet, I should.

    I went fo the GTP because I would rather have the sportier coupe and much more power, GTP felt sportier to drive, It is much EASIER and CHEAPER to modify a GTP 3800 then it is a Intrigue 3.5 to make lots of pwr. interior was last on my list. Besides I had the '95 Aurora, their flagship car already, didn't want to downgrade to an Intrigue. My i30t interior is 10x better then my GTP.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    My 3 1/2 year old Intrigue is still rattle free with 61K kms on the dial.

    You are right though, much easier to modify the 3800 SC.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Dindak, my 2002 GTP is still rattle free with only 8k miles, knock on wood, we'll see.

    You can modify and add an aftermarket SC to the 3.5, but it's bick bucks and not sure what that does to the reliability issues.

    There is a guy that has a '98 intrigue with the 3800 that he dropped the L67 or 3800 SC engine into with major mods, talk about a sleeper, you wouldn't know until he he posted a 1//4 in the low 13's one night... nice.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    My take is that GM quality didn't really start to excelerate until 99-00. I notice big improvements in 03/04 models, even ones that have been around for a few years. It's not Honda/Toyota yet, but it's getting close. Of course Honda / Toyota drivers would vener believe that.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,029
    If the GP had a Rubbermaid or Tupperware interior, at least the plastic would be soft, not hard, shiny and black... ;-)

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Yeah the newer GM's quality have improved , but so have the other auto mfg's too... Even Lutz admitted they still have a few more years to supposedly match the Japanese. But they are getting better. Most Honda/Toyota drivers think their cars are so perfect and never break, HOWEVER GM still does make some of the CRAPPIEST/CHEAPEST Interiors and the 2004 GP needs a better interior, esp for that price range...

    Actually the Intrigue 1999 and 2001 are on CR used car list to avoid, the 1997 GP is on that list

         It's funny when the Honda Toyota people tell you how their car is the #1 selling so it must be the best, somebody forgot to tell these people that actually the Ford F150 has been the #1 seller for like 20+ yrs in a row now. Outsells the Accord by 2-1. There were a few yrs when the Taruaus outsold the Accord. Most sales don't make a car the best, like some people think. These same people also never mention the sludge problem Toyota/Lexus had with their 3.0L V6 from 1996-2000? Or the Honda auto tranny problems, esp with the Odyssey from 1999-2001, why doesn't that ever reflect in the consumer reports or vehicle surveys? The tranny was given a perfect rating in CR from 1995-2001 yet Honda admitted it had problems? Biased reviewers?? BTW.. where is Honda's V8 engine? Oops they don't have one, their flagship Acura still makes do with a V6 while the competition has V8's for years.

    If GM fixed up more of their interiors their sells would instantly increase.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    <<With its heavy steering, stiff suspension, and busy, overly firm ride, the GP tries-most unsuccessfully to be sporty. Handling is forgiving and secure, but the car isnt' particularly agile Flimsy and cheap-looking plastic trim give the interior a low-rent feel>>>

        From Consumer Reports February 2002.

    It is sporty regardless of what CR says, yet they said the Old man's floaty boat riding Avalon was actually agile or well handling somewhere... I don't put any merit in what CR comes up with...
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    CR is inconsistent. The 00 and 01 Intrigue are the same car and yet the 01 you should avoid? Me thinks they have a very small sample size.

    I actually like the look of the 04 GP dash better than my Intrigue in many ways. Problem with the GP is the price range is huge and on the lower end GT, the dash quality is just fine. On the GTP $$ side, it's a bit low end.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    Still think my GP interior is just fine. I like it more all the time and I find the seats to be the most comfortable I've had. Material is not cheap, some people seem to think so but I think it has more to do with the patterns.

    Lots of GM bashing going on at the Honda Accord forum. As an Accord owner I used to do it also, but I'm happy with my car and I do thing GM has come a long way from 10 years ago. If I had to do it again tomorrow I would buy another 04 Grand
    Prix GT2!!!!!!
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Dindak, You are right, the 99 GP was on the avoid list then taken off last year.... now the 97 is there? Ok... I always get a laugh from reading the auto section in CR. In a recent luxury test, last months? they clearly rated the Lincoln LS #1 but then go on to say they can't recommend it because of bad past reliability issues? Then why did they pick it #1 then? DUH!! They lost credibility right there. All the cars were luxury brands except the Maxima? Max shouldn't have been in that test, wasn't a luxury brand. Oh well.

    Yes, near $30k is too much for a GTP COMP G, I would rather have a leftover '03 I35 for that price or cheaper. Or the leftover '03 GTP's if any exisit. The '04 GT is priced ok.

    Yes the leather/seats and dash readout/speedo tach are better in the 04...but the rest is the same cheapness Still not up to the competition yet in the interior, everything else is ok.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Dan165, the '04 interior is slightly improved from the '03, but I think GM could have done alot better. The leather is a definite improvement over the Pleather stuff in the '03's... I love the speedo/tach arrangement. But the rest needs better material. I would buy a 2004 GTP compG tomorrow IF they brought back the coupe. Oh well.. we'll wait and see

    I only get leather in my cars esp with kids, much easier to clean up and help prevent stains... As for the Accord, has always been a dull appliance, esp. in 4 door form. The 4cylinder was always too underpowered for my tatests, should be V6 only, but then they would loose sales, since only 20% of Accords are V6's... And the new 2003 sedan backend is Butt ugly... They should have made the 4 door out of the coupe which has some nice hints of Mercedes in the backend.

    I'm a GM fan, but I will give Honda credit for getting 240hp from tht 3.0L and the nice interior. Just wish they could make an exciting/sporty accord.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    "If GM fixed up more of their interiors their sells would instantly increase"

    they would increase by more than they know, but there are a few other things they need to work on yet too.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    240 hp is impressive, but the torque isn't great and it still runs on a belt which means expensive $$ service down the road. Accord rear is the worst part, the rest I really like. Coupe is better, especially the blue one I saw yesterday with the hot blonde in it. ;-)
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    330 with a stick is quicker than the GTP.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    the turn signal clicking is unbelievably soft
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    240 HP from the Honda 3.0 liter looks good on paper, but I think you of all people would probably cite a definite lack of low end torque. As for CR, they are very inconsistant. The 99 and 01 Intrigues should be avoided, but not the 98,00, or 02. Other than 98s having the 3800 V6, the car was basically the same since it came out. And from the Intrigue thread here at Edmunds, the 98s were by far the most problematic. Your right about best sellers not necessarily being the best product. Not all that long ago, GM's A-body Cutlass Ciera and Buick Century were among the 10 best selling cars in the US. Hardly stellar products. Even today, the old Cavalier is a big seller. With the Accord, your at least getting a decent car as opposed to the past, but it's nothing earth shattering IMO. In fact, if you looked at the top 10 selling vehicles of today, most are likely to be mere transportation appliances.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    It's always interesting how people(and especially the auto press) like to bash GM products endlessly. Yeah, they made alot of crap for a while and even today there is still room for imrovement, but you know what? Even MBs have room for improvement. Despite the problems I've had with it(and the even bigger nightmares that have been dealer service departments) I still like my Intrigue alot. Every time I see a Toyota Camry with it's low hanging tailpipe, I wonder why no one in the press picks that up.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    People generally want appliances these days, sad but true. Honda and Toyota are the masters of this. Very plain looking cars with good reliability. Hard to look at almost any of their vehicles and get excited.

    Toyota Camry - a Japanese Buick. I think the Camry is actually more of a Buick than a Buick will be. I never see anyone under 40 driving on and most are sold to seniors.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    Gunit, I don't like the 03 dash much, I don't think I would have bought if that's all Pontiac had. I love the new 04 dash especially.

    Oldsman, The V6 Accord didn't really feel much faster than the 04 GT. The 40 extra HP don't show much, that's for sure. Maybe on the highway it would be a bit faster for passing.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Dindak, I do NOT like timing belts only chains, another reason I bought the I30t, uses a metal timing chain just like my GTP, BMW and Mercedes.

    The 1997-2003 dash is stylish and like the DIC but it is CHEAP , but I bought the car for its styling/handling and 240HP and its a coupe, easy mods, definitely not the cheap interior. To me the 2004 interior while yes improved, still not up to the competition, still on the cheap side esp if you are laying down nearly $30k for it in GTP form. I like the trip computer better on the '03 then the new '04...
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Dindak, the accord may have 240hp but doesn't have the monstrous 280 ft lbs torque of the GTP and doesn't make its 212 ft lbs of torque till 5000rpm that is why the '04 GT initially feels faster, Max torque at 5000rpm is too high, better suited for highways, not for stoplights or low speed merging, but the numbers don't lie and the accord is 1 full second faster 0-60mph then the GT. 7 vs 8.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Oldsman01, I had a GM A body, 1985 Ciera, piece of crap.. typical bad GM paint, you name it. By 70k miles it was falling apart. In those years the cars were very slow. The standard engine that year was 2.5 L 4 banger "iron Duke" making 90 hp and 0-60 nearly 13 or 14 seconds... The optional 3.0 V6 2bll with 110 hp wasn't any better. I had the 3.8 with 120 or 125hp, even that lacked punch.

    Even the G bodies of 1978-1987 with the std 3.8 V6 were total wastes, that couldn't move out of their own ways EXCEPT the Buick Turbocharged versions... the optional 5.0L 305 or 307 was the way to go in those yrs on the g body... even then they were only 140-150hp, but 250+ torque. The worst one I ever tested in 1986 when I was buying my first new car was a G body Olds Supreme V8 loaded with the 2.14 final drive ratio... the slowest V8 I ever drove in my life... It used the undersized TH250 3 spd tranny and you could nearly wind out 1st gear to 50mph+ the 2.14 ratio killed the V8, gas mileage car thats all. I spent the extra on the 442, which gave you 30 more horse, modes 170 and that car actually had good pwr for 1986, 9 second car. Was very bad in any snow.

    Its funny that the Cavalier that now dates back to 1995 minus its new echotech 4 banger and new back/front ends actually has increased sales by 10 or 20% recently... Those are crude cars... I rented an new 2001 Sunfire with the base 120hp engine and auto tranny? In the summer with the A/C on and 2 people in the car i couldn't move out of its own way, had to floor it everytime to pull out. It was very noisy past 3000 rpm.

    I would never be buying a Caraccordtaruaus, SHO edition was nice.

    Yeah what is up with that Very LOW hanging tailpip on the new camry's? I thought I was the only one who noticed that?

    The M class Mercedes, the early ones were nightmares, 2 of my neighbors had nothing but problems with their ML320's and traded them in, though I have heared they are ok now.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Dindak, you are right, most people want apppliances, for them that is ok, for me it isn't, most of those poeple aren't car enthusiasts anyway. Not all, but most. The new Accord sedan is hideous, esp that back end. Even the new camry... As my friend said, Camry/accord, "dull cars for dull people" You are right I see alot more older people driving Camry's these days. in Japan Toyota is the OLD MAN's car division, like Buick is here from what I hav read.

    The funniest thing is when you see someone usually a kid that inherited his mommy/daddy's accord/camry try to dress it up or sport it up, a stock GP still looks better, lol. Big coffee can exhaust tips and type R stickers don't make your car go any faster, they make them sound like lawnmowers on steroids.

     I will stick with my sports coupes and luxury cars, I know the reliability may not be as good as toyota/honda, but that is what the warranty is for, believe me, honda's toyota's break too... sludge V6 from toyotoa and bad trannys from honda in the late 1990's early '00s they aren't as perfect either

    Notice the press never picks up on that stuff, but they will stop at nothing to knock anything GM does..... I don't think GM cars are as bad as the press makes them out to be, drive it yourself. I have driven in my friends 2001 Accord and I'm NOT impressed in anyway and I can't see how that car wins all these competitions?? Esp that horrible glove compartment lid/handle that is almost as high as the airbag, or the hard to read backlit LCD's for clock/radio, or the crappy radios.. you usually can't get BOSE until you step up to an Acura. There is no styling whatsoever. But I guess 400000 people think otherwise, to each their own.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    The Accord picks up speed as it gets to 60. no doubt it's faster, I never said it wasn't.

    Belts suck, it's a big negative on an Accord if you are holding long term.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    If one checks the facts <http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003050>, not the hype, it's easy to understand why Japanese and German cars are thought to be reliable. One or two brands of each country perform well while the rest ride on hype. As a matter of fact, American brands fare better overall.

    Reliability is important to me, but it's not the sole deciding factor. And in any way, I always do my homework about the specific model I'm interested in, whether it's a car or soap.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    Gunit, I thought that I was the only one to hate the small, low-contrast LCD displays on most Japanese and European cars. It beats me too why no journalist points out this important detail that GM does right.
  • ken1776ken1776 Member Posts: 41
    I just had to replace the rear rotors on my 01 GP, just out of warrantee. Has anyone noticed pore quality casting of their rotors? One of my rotors has a void in it, once exposed it just ate up the rear pads.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Dindak, belts do suck, unless you are leasing the car. I refuse to buy cars with belts... all of mine have always had chains.. but chains can break too. Just less likely.

    Evandro, my 2001 I30t has NO trip computer or dual zone climate control and this is a luxury car with a $34k msrp, go figure?
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    My 1997 GTP coupe front brake pads lasted 30k miles and were starting to warp at that point had them refinished, and the rear pads lasted 50k miles.

    My 2002 GTP at nearly 8k miles, no warpage stops fine. I do notice after rain the rotors rust but that rust disappears once you use the car/brakes. Same thing happens to my 2001 I30t.

    My 1995 Aurora and 1986 442 are the only cars I have ever owned where the rear and front brakes wore at the same rate, every 25-30k miles.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Evandro, I hear ya, but Its hard to do the homework on a first year or brand new model redesign, esp if its all different, never know what to expect until the 2nd yr or beyond sometimes, But I have the factory warranty and I alwasy buy the ext warranty, so my cars are always covered. Right now my friend has the 2001 Accord from Hell, and that is supposedly one of the best cars, right? any car can have problems..

    The A/C compressor on my 1995 aurora went bad in 2000 and was $998.00 at the Olds Dealer, I only had to pay a $25.00 deductible, THANKGOD!! That repair almost paid for the warranty. My 1995 aurora was troublefree until the 5yr mark, 2000 then you name it, it as in for repair every 2 months.. till I traded it in on the 2001 I30t.

    The dealers tried blaming my oil consumption problem a known earlier NORTHSTAR problem on me using Mobil 1 synthetic oil. BS.... Guess what the last 5k mile I switched back to regular oil... same oil consumption rate, problem was that the ext warranty company was giving me hard time on how to fix it, so I did fix it, I traded the car in at my local infiniti dealer...

    I have always used MOBIL 1 in all my cars, tranny and engine synthetic, and only had one problem in the 1997 GTP, leaking valve cover gaskets at 40k. Otherwise, leak and consumption free in all my other cars...
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    The turn signal indicator is very LOUD in my 2002 GTP, Click/click, loudest in any car I have ever been in that I can remember in the past 20yrs.... I do not remember my 1997 GTP being that loud or the GT rental cars I get. Just a quirk, we'll see...
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Member Posts: 1,203
    My dad had an 84 Pontiac 6000(clone of the Ciera) and yep, you name it, it broke. I was a kid then and I think I learned more "adult" words from him while fretting about that car than I did from my friends and their older brothers and sisters:) In fact, my dad swore GM off for a nearly a decade after that car. Heck it was so bad, he started buying Chryslers. I finally convinced him to check out an Aurora in 96 and he gave in and leased one(after his Chryslers started shedding paint in only 3 years). Didn't have too many problems, but the A/C was one although on his the evaporator coil had to be replaced. While it was a bit boaty, that Aurora was a nice cruiser. My last year of college I talked him into letting me take the car to Florida on a spring break trip and even with 4 people on board, A/C on, and trunk full of luggage and golf clubs the car never lacked for any power. If I remember correcly, the little driver info panel averaged about 26 mpg on the freeway. Not bad for a big car with a V8 engine.
  • orwoodyorwoody Member Posts: 269
    Worst and best reliable cars we've owned were Pontiacs.
    - Won't even talk about the 82' Firebird my wife had when we were married.
    - I loved my 86' Grand Am SE w/3L V6: It was quick and fun to drive. But it saw the shop a lot. I think GM quit selling 100k/6Yr $0 deductable warranties after that....
    - But our 89' Sunbird was sold to family friends at ~100k they ran it for another 60k-70k and traded it off/sold it. In over 160kmiles and 6-7 years ONE fuel injector was replaced on it's 4 cylinder engine; no other breakage only normal wear and tear.
    - Traded my 96' Bonneville with over 60k on it and hadn't had it to the shop for anything but oil changes.

    The reliability of our Subaru, Toyota and Volvo have all been in between.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    The Aurora felt faster then its 8 second 0-60 time. On mine if you left it in 2 with the peformane shift mode on, and nailed the gas you would chirp the tires real good on the 1-2 shift, pretty impressive for a 3967 lb car. Great looker, still a good looking car now nearly 9 yrs later, very stylish, loved it. After it hit the 5 yr old mark in 2000 it started having problems every 2 months. Esp that oil consumption problem. But still loved it. People still thought it was a new car 5 yrs later...

    The only negatives i had on it were the low roof in the front I'm 5'11 not too tall, yes in town it was boaty, The brakes were so-so, not to great braking. much better for highway cruising. Lane changes took too long. 130 mph in that car was impressive... it was governed to somewhere around there with the autobahn package. At 85mph if you nailed the gas, it still had balls and would take off.

    I loved the styling, still do on the 1995-1999 aurora, just like the RIviera styling... The 2001 was a disapointment styling wise but drives/handles much better. Gm said they wanted less of a "spaceship" and offered the 3.5 to drum up sales... If you get an Aurora make sure it has the 4.0 In 2000 people still thought my car was brandnew because of the styling. I still think the 1995 looke newer then the 2001, When I parked next to LS400's I stood out and had people asking meall the time in late 1994, what is that? Meanwhile everyone just walked past their dull LS400.

    Only other negatives where the size, it wasn't very roomy for a fullsized car. My GTP trunk was the same 16.0 cu ft size but felt bigger, because the Aurora trunk opening was very narrow. The right front seat always felt cramped. The front roof pillar felt low, I'm 5'11, the big A sized pillars "tree trunk sized" , probably to make up for the frameless windows. But that car had NO RATTLES.. even 6yrs later. Solid as a rock. The auror was notoriously nose heavy, I think 70/30 weight distribution on a 3967 lb car. Nice luxury cruiser, certainly no handler. Very nice. Too bad mine had problems after 5yrs. People forget that back in 1994 that car was rated at 24mhz? It was the stiffest structure of any car excluding other GM products... Mine was rattle free and had a decent interior.

    only thing that sucked was no HUD?? agian the GP sedan was nearly as roomy. But ver nice car. aurora interior made the GP interior look like crap. In town I only got about 14mpg... but on the highway from NJ to canada/niagar falls I got nearly 25 according to the computer, that was a cool computer, oil psi, batter voltage...
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    To me the Accord was a nice looking car in 1996 and 1998. The 2001 refresh ruined what was a good looking car. The 03 looks terrible. The back end is way way too bland. It looks like a Japanese Car on the front end and on the back end it looks like an American Car. The way the car was designed just doesn't look right. My thinking was Honda saw they could sway people to the TSX and have them pay MSRP for a more sportier car than the Accord. It was about making money. Honda lost me there and I think it was a poor business decision. I could have a Mazda 6 or VW Passat for less money than a TSX so why would I go and buy a TSx for 25-27K? There was no reason for Honda to do that.

    About having problems having problems American Cars and Japanese Cars both have their problems. The Europeans have really slipped.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Yep, all cars have their problems, my friend is trying to trade his '01 Accord in shortly, with only 45k miles now... just had to spend another $700+ for some kind of ABS /brake thing... out of warranty! I'm sure he was on of the rare people that got a bad Accord, but he had his CD player replaced a few times and his tranny. So much about Accord quality. Ever go to a Honda dealer? most in my area charge MSRP or higher for the Odyssey and new Accord, in October '02, last year they played this game that if you paid OVER MSPR you would get your Odyssey faster, this was many dealers in the North Jersey area, won't mention names. what kind of BS is that? Sorry but an Odyssey is NOT worth paying MSRP + for or waiting for. I would only consider doing that on a sports car, not a minivan. My dad waited and got his, had 2 problems the same day, weather stripping was loose and fell off and the right sliding door had a malfunction, other then that it's great. Fixed and fine. Also the 3.5 Odyssey takes a strange oil... 5W20?? never head of that, I have heard of 5W30 all the time.

    In my personal experience you either get a GOOD car or a BAD one, I have had experiences with both.

    yeah that '03 Accord rear, ugh! They should have based the sedan on the coupe like GM did with the Grand Prix, that would have been nicer.

    If you remember the 4 door G bodies were uglier and different from 1978-1987 then their 2 door coupe counterparts too... the 2 door G bodies were so much bette looking.

    Look at a 1985 Olds Cutlass supreme 4 door and 2 door, 2 door looks much better.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    There is no way I would pay MSRP for an Accord. It is a mass market car. Where I live in Central Jersey I think they are taking a little over invoice. I haven't heard about an Accord selling for MSRP. In the 80's yes. In the 90's and today no.

    About the Odyssey I'll take the Mazda MPV instead.

    I have gone to a Honda dealer a few times: 2 times for brochures and once to go look at an Accord Coupe. I didn't buy the Accord Coupe though.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I know 2 people with VWs and both are in the shop all the time. VW build quality is very good these days but the reliability is poor. Probably why VW sales are slipping as of late. the jig is up!
  • gmallthewaygmalltheway Member Posts: 77
    I wouldn't pay MSRP on any car, esp. an Accord! lol
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    Carguy58, when the new Accord 2003 Coupe, loaded V6/Navigation came out, they were going for MSRP or higher, not sure on the sedan though.. The odyssey has alot more room and is bigger then the MPV, esp behind the 3rd row, the MPV has nearly no room. The MPV handles better, but is also smaller.

    The marauder was going for MSRP $35k or higher, then when they couldn't sell them Mercury offered a $2k rebate and dropped the price to $30k or less. Merc only sold 50% of what they had forecasted for the 1st yr. A stock GTP is still faster then a marauder...that dates to '92 body and '78 chassis.

    Dindak, VW had the coil problem/recall, and the Passat dates to 1999, needs a new style. VW has gone to upscale, now the Tourag? If I'm spending $30k + my car better say AUDI on it, not VW....
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Oh yeah I did hear about people paying MSRP for 6 speed manual tranny in the 03 Accord Coupe. I was thinking about the Sedan.

    I like the MPV: You don't have to pay sticker like the Odyessy and its not cartooni-ish looking like the new Toyota Sienna. The Sienna's interior is very impressive but the exterior styling I do not like. The Ford Wind-star I'm not sure about its reliability. Very nice exterior styling though on the Windstar.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    I know as of March 2003 people were still paying sticker or ABOVE on the Odyssey, crazy, but now with Toyota's new 2004 Sienna, I'm sure that will change. Sienna has sunroof, HID headlights, AWD, JBL and etc, as options that you can NOT even get on the '04 Odyssey. But also more $$.

    One strange thing, the odyssey only has 2 power outlets?? in the front and the very back? My GTP coupe has the same amount, 2? Thats fine for a coupe, but not for a minivan, my dad has the fully loaded odyssey 2003.

    The new MPV is nice, but Does NOT have the room of the Odyssey/Siena, esp behind the 3rd row. Sienna interior is near Lexus, pretty nice, but the exterior is so/so. Thw worst were the "DUSTBUSTER" looking GM mivinans up until 1996.

    GM minivans date to 1997 now... need an overhaul.
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