Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

fred707 · August 2003

Well My first mission issue with the 04' gtp and it's a couple of Big ones.

1) When listening to FM or AM bad while using rear window defogger, Unit gets interference from unit.

2) AC condensation not draining out like it is supposed to. So car gets stinky.

fkoehler · August 2003

Hi All,

I am averaging about 20 MPG in my 2000 GT w/65K.
It seems to run pretty well. I noticed lower MPG a couple of years ago when they went to MTBE all year round here in Northern CA. I know that will cause some loss, but am doubting its more than the average 5% I heard attrbuted.

I do drive moderately fast, however I also drive from Oakland to South San Francisco daily (25m each way), and am off commute which means I am not sitting in bumper-bumper traffic and usually make the trip in about 25-30 minutes.

I ask because I ran across this gov site which seems to imply 29 MPG for freeway for the 2000 GT....

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/15949.shtml

Is this site just printing what car companies want them too?

I remember a number of years ago when my dad moved from a 6 cyl. car to an '88 Lincoln TC w/V8 and was getting almost 32 on the highway. He was a good mechanic and didn't BS people, so I'm debating an upgrade.
I know its insane, however I am thinking of moving up to a Lincoln Mark VIII or so.

Whats everyone else getting for MPG?

Thanks.

johnclineii · August 2003

My 98 GTP with the supercharger REGULARLY got more than 30 MPG on the highway (of course, the supercharger required premium).

EPA figures are honest, but do not indicate what mileage YOU may get. They are useful for comparison purposes.

If you think you are going to get better mileage from a big Ford V-8 in a big, heavy and sturdy body on frame car, you are in for some severe disappointment.

dan165 · August 2003

Sounds like the K&N is far from a sure thing in terms of mileage and power. Perhaps I will just stick with what I have, I don't want to void any warranties.

Fred, No A/C issues with my 04. What kind of smell are you getting?

I noticed there is now some incentives on the 04 Grand Prix. Big full page ads in the weekend paper.

fkoehler · August 2003

John,

I am thinking the following:

The Mark VIII is only #300 heavier and has a twin-cam, all-aluminum 4.6-liter V8 280HP/285ftlb.

I would suspect the Mk8 is able to kick around a similarly sized auto a bit better than the GT which has a much smaller engine and hp/ft# rating.

I'm thinking, if I can only expect to get 20MPG, why not do it with a Luxury class car, with the extra ponies available? Also, a number of people on epinions and other sites seem to honestly assess the car as getting 23-25MPG freeway.
We are in the process of buying a house now, so I will be waiting a little bit before doing anything. However, I can probably get some test pilot time in at the local dealers

Will reply back with an update.

GT
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/- 20876.htm

Mk8
http://216.239.33.104/search?q=cache:__Y4HVrApREJ:auto.consumerguide.com/auto/used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2058.htm+1995+mark+viii+lincoln+weight&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

orwoody · August 2003

fkoehler I used to get about 1-2 mpg drop running the 10% ethanol they make us run Oct-March here in my 2000 GTP. I would get 21-23 in mixed driving but still got around 30mpg hwy even in the winter. I haven't run any of the ethanol mix in my 2003 GT lately, but getting 23-25mpg on regular(70% hwy/30% city).

2004 Incentives - local dealers offering $1500 GM rebate, $1000 loyalty rebate and $1500 - $2000 additional discounts.

oldsman01 · August 2003

My father used to have an Aurora(first generation) and those cars weighed about 4000 lbs and had a 32 valve V8. Around town, the mileage wasn't so good, but on the freeway it could average as high as 27 mpg or so. And this was with 4 people on board, A/C on, and trunk full of luggage.

fkoehler · August 2003

Thanks guys.
I think what this points out is that going witha V8 is not always a bad thing. In my case though, it could be engine related since about 80% of my driving is freeway. I admit to cruising at about 75 average, however even with that I don't think I should be getting 20 MPG. And, I do think I noticed an initial drop when they went to MTBE year round, however I was still getting 22-23 I think. Used to get about 320 miles to the tank in the winter. Now I getting about 300 when the tank is about bone dry.

Guess its off to my favorite mechanic for a full check up. Good thing I got one of the better extended warranties.

midlifecrisis · August 2003

For my second tank of gas, I have averaged 27 MPG with the GT2 model. It was as high as 32 MPG with 55 mph highway driving, and then reduced to 27 MPG when I had to do a lot of stop and go driving. Thus, the GP is getting 2-3 MPG more than my previous Grand Am. That's amazing when you think about it.

dindak · August 2003

Sounds great. I wonder if the series III is a touch more efficient than the III?

dindak · August 2003

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6328

johnclineii · August 2003

I just hope GM doesn't put the Uglycloth in the G6, too. It ran me off from a GP GTP purchase this time round...

wpbharry · August 2003

First, John, what are you currently driving? Profile is blank on the issue.

Secondly, I AGREE with the sentiments re:cloth seats. Las Vegas, anyone? BUT can't believe cloth is even offered on the GTP. Is it really?

johnclineii · August 2003

..a 2000 Impala LS bought new, now with 131,000 virtually trouble free miles. Before that was a 98 GTP I put 77,000 virtually trouble free miles on as well...

dindak · August 2003

We have a w-body twin, an Intrigue. Two small issues over 3 1/2+ years now.

Given the proven drive train and the high quality plant where it's made, the 04 GP should yield very few issues.

wpbharry · August 2003

Due to the fact that we're mainly in the Malibu Maxx forum, I DO know what you drive, and lost a beat. Sorry.

Here comes an UGH, but I love the orange fusion color on the new GP. VERY distinctive.

Huge rebates already, so maybe next summer, I'll be in one.

Keep posting reactions to the '04, please.

orwoody · August 2003

For those still waiting/deciding I had the campaign(officially not a recall) work done on my 2003 GP GT today. Only took about an hour and they were real busy. (day before long Holiday weekend.)

Other than a couple of buzzy panels on rough pavement no troubles from the GT and got almost 27mpg on last tank. (about 80% hwy)

jodar96 · September 2003

Just bought a 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme with V-6 3100 engine for my son. I am asking this question here since there is no open Olds forum.

The engine in this car is identical to what GM put in all base W-car V-6 engines in 95-present.

My question is this; While replacing the rear spark plugs, I felt like I disconnected a two prong connector. After I replaced the back row plugs, I went back and checked to see where the connector was supposed to go. I could not find any male two prong area for this connector. I started the engine, and drove it around the block, and none of the lights came on, and the alternator was operating fine.

Does anyone know anything about this connector? After checking the outside of the connector, I noticed that the area that is supposed to be inserted into receiver had dirt on it, like it was never inserted into anything in the first place Is it possible that that two prong connector is for another engine like the 3.4L?

Also is it normal for the altenator in this engine to get so hot? The heat on alternator body is much greater than the heat off intake mainifold.

I though the wire might have come off the alt. but alt. connectors are in place.

Thanks,
Joe

dan165 · September 2003

Where did everyone go?

montanafan · September 2003

End of Uglycloth(r). Starting this month, the cloth will be mono-tone in appearance. Also more foam in the lower rear seat.

dindak · September 2003

Where did you see that?

They must have got a lot of negetive feedback.

montanafan · September 2003

Saw it on the dealership bulletin board, when bringing in my brother's 2004 GTP for the recall.

dindak · September 2003

Well, there are a few people here who should be happy.

Certainly was the right thing to fix quick as it was not nice to look at.

tek3 · September 2003

Did they refer to it as "Uglycloth" on the bulletin board? That would make some of the cynical folks on here very happy.

evandro · September 2003

So the 2004 GP still has the leaky intake manifold?

johnclineii · September 2003

WOW! I may go look at the Grand Prix again! The Uglycloth (TM recognized) was one of two major reasons holding me back. The other was the need for backseat room, which, due to a change in personal circumstances, is no longer nearly so necessary...

oldsman01 · September 2003

It's about time Pontiac got rid of the "uglycloth" seats. I mean what were they trying to emulate, the 1970s? I'll be curious to see what the new seat material looks like. BTW, anyonme see the massive sport sedan review in the latest issue of Automobile. The GP ranked near the bottom but it was ahead of the Maxima which ranked last.

johnclineii · September 2003

The Maxima ranked last? Who was first, the biggest advertiser of the year? I believe at Automobile that would be Chrysler...

montanafan · September 2003

Right Rear Brake Hose Fitting Torque was what the recall is for. Grand Prixs haven't had leaky maifolds since the first years of the last generation. ALthough you see it more in Bonnevilles then the Grand Prix.

evandro · September 2003

Of course, the new GP has Al manifolds...

Yep, I took my Bonneville yesterday to have recall service performed. But at just 17000mls it leaked and the upper manifold was replaced.

montanafan · September 2003

So if GM had come out with the recall earlier, or just continued to put the seal tabs in at the plant, they could have saved all the money they paid your dealer to replace the manifold unnecessarily.

johnclineii · September 2003

Perhaps. IF the recall fixes the problem. I guess we will find out soon enough.

vcjumper · September 2003

(I'm guessing list price was a factor in the rankings and they didn't take the time to go to the GM dealer and haggle the typical GM discount off the silly GM MSRP but it would still be as expensive as quite a few cars on the list.)

12 Sport Sedans Ranked and Spanked!

1. Acura TSX
2. BMW 325i
3. Infiniti G35
4. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
5. Mazda 6 S
6. Subaru Impreza WRX
7. Lexus IS300
8. Audi A4 1.8T Quattro
9. Saab 9-3 Linear
10. Mercedes-Benz C230K Sport
11. Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Comp G
12. Nissan Maxima SE

evandro · September 2003

Yep, way too long. There has been a TSB for the first years of the Series II (up to 98), but it didn't have to do with the current issue (it was a too wide EGR pipe). So, I'm not sure that the recall fixes it once and for all. A shame in an otherwise spotless engine.

ab348 · September 2003

Seems to me that stuff like the BMW 3-series, the Subaru and Lancer really don't compete with the GP. That's a strange mix of cars.

johnclineii · September 2003

And it looks so strange to see Maxima in last place. I've owned both a GTP and a Maxima SE.

That IS a strange list of cars.

vcjumper · September 2003

You would also have to option some of them up with some silly options to get them up to 30K

ruski · September 2003

and the BMW is 325. No wonder TSX beat it.

carguy58 · September 2003

Why is the Subaru WRX and Mitsu EVO in that category? The cars compared should have been the Pontiac Grand Prix, Mazda 6, Acura TSX, Nissan Maxima, saab 9-3 and Mercedes C230K.

Lexus IS300 is questionable to be in that comparo. The Audi A4 I don't know about either.

regfootball · September 2003

the ugly cloth got taken out of the GP so they could put it in the new Malibu.

How does GM think such things will be accepted by the public?

johnclineii · September 2003

Actually, the Uglycloth in the Grand Prix was 1000 times more juvenile than the chessboard pattern in the new Malibu.

I must agree, though, with all the choices available, why does GM put Uglycloth in cars? To make people buy leather, of course. Then again, the Malibu doesn't even OFFER leather. Well, it does. Sorta. Inserts in the center of the seat, ONLY. By coincidence, the only place the cloth is truly ugly.

Why does GM insist on punishing people who make choices they may not agree with? Some of us do not WANT leather. Years ago, I had to have leather in an Olds LSS or do without the car.

Dumb.

At least they fixed the problem in the Grand Prix. But those people who had to take the Uglycloth to get cloth in the early models are either stuck with it or with the expense of having the seats recovered or covering them up with something!

As the Malibu's Uglycloth (and some would say relatively bizarre exterior styling) proves, GM still doesn't really understand that its customers have choices, and can buy cars from others, not just GM.

I owned a 98 GTP. I would have owned a 04 by now. But that Uglycloth was just enough to make me delay my decision long enough to wait for the 04 Mazda6 hatch/wagon, the Mazda3, the Subaru Legacy and the Volvo V50 before deciding. The Grand Prix still has a chance, but it would have been in my driveway had GM not used that Uglycloth. Not only did they NOT get me to move up to the leather, they may very well have lost a sale. Ooops!

dindak · September 2003

While I agree with you on the ugly cloth, GM is not the only company in the world that makes ugly car parts to scare some people off. At least they fixed the problem quick and were listening. Give GM credit, they never used to do stuff like that 5 years ago.

montanafan · September 2003

1999 had coolant seal installed at plant, no gasket leak. Stop the seal in 2000, and have gasket leaks. You should be the best of the group, new gasket earlier this year, seal tabs now.

evandro · September 2003

Of course, I could do without both... ;-)

stickyman · September 2003

I have a 2001 Grand Prix GT. This past Sunday I discovered water in the drive foot well. The windows were up and we haven't had rain in over a week. The dealer can not find anything wrong with seals, moldings, weld joints, calking, etc...but, now I'm faced with replacing the carpet, pad,etc...around $900.00.
Has anyone had this same problem(?) and if so, what was the cause??
Insurance adjuster looking at it today....Thanks

sda · September 2003

I think you mentioned that your water leak was on the left side?? I had a similar situation, but it was on the right side front footwell. Turned out to be a clogged AC drain line. Dealer unplugged line and has been fine since. Before I took the car to the dealer, I kept up with the leak by regularly (daily) vacuuming up the water with my shop vac and the sopped up the remainder with a towel. I would leave the windows open (car parked inside garage) and allow the car to dry out. No stains or odor developed. Granted my car is an Intrigue, but it is a W-body, so I would think the same could happen with your car. Just a thought...

stickyman · September 2003

You are right, it is on the driver side. On the passenger side it can be either the AC drain or heater core......the only thing that I can think of is a crack very low behind the L/F wheel. This is really driving me nuts, I hate filing insurance claims or dealing with an unknown. Thanks again, Stickyman

midlifecrisis · September 2003

Last month my neighbor came home with a new 4-door Accord. In addition to an exterior design I find terribly wrong, the car had the most hideous looking cloth seats I've ever seen. First the car exterior was black, and the seat material was this yellowish off-white color that looked like it was made from cheesecloth or something. First of all, the seats will be dirty or stained within a few months. Second, the material was so cheap it was startling. All this from such a great manufacturer.

Also, a co-worker owns a 2002 Camry. The entire interior is gray. There is no color combination, and the seat material looks like a pair of rayon pants I used to wear in the 70's.

I'll stick with my GP, thanks.

dan165 · September 2003

I have actually grown to like what some call "uglycloth (tm)" in the 04 Grand Prix. Maybe it's not my first choice, but it's not bad. Most of all though, the seats are comfortable. I drove up to Ottawa last week and never really squirmed the whole 5 hours or so.

Not much to report, car is running well. The 04s definitely seem to be well made, car still feels solid and rattle-free.

carguy58 · September 2003

I sat in one and people know on this board I prefer imports. I was not impressed by sitting in an 02 Camry. The last generation Camry actally looked better on the outside and looked better in the inside than the current genertion Camry.

As for Honda Accord the exterior has been talked about many times. At least the interior looks nice.

Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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