Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

orwoody · October 2003

So is it my imagination or has Pontiac "toned down" the shiny surface of the plastic around the dash and console?
I've had several 2004 GP rental cars and they all have very shiny plastic. While at my dealers for an oil change last Sat I cruised the lot and it seems like the plastic trim is not as reflective as that in the rentals I've had....
just wondering... if so I am very glad as it was th4e cheapest look that pushed me even more to jump on the 2003 GP GT I bought.

regfootball · October 2003

it may show as an infiniti

i thought only off the line acceleration mattered to pushrod fans.....

8.5 0-60, wow that's not quick.

The minivan mills make more power with less displacement....I wonder why....even in heavier vehicles.

a 'high feature' motor in a GP wouldn't that be sweet.

dindak · October 2003

Very possible they have made a change quietly, they did that with the seat materials and the rear seat construction also.

Interesting story for the critics of some of the hard plastic in the GP. Took a rental Corolla out for a spin yesterday. I had not been in a Corolla in a while but I had forgotten how much hard plastic is on the dash of these car, wow. Yes it looks good, but people rave about the interiors of the Corolla and there is certainly more than average amounts of hard plastic in that car. I still hate the driving position in the car also!

gunit · October 2003

Dindak,

The old Grand Prix 3800 of 1997-2003 did 0-60 in 8 seconds flat, but for some reason the new 2004 is only rated at 8.5 seconds? I saw that in a few magazines and that is according to Pontiac's official numbers. The 2004 lost 1/2 a second somewhere. Though the 2004 is heavier, but not by much.. I think only 100 pounds? Very strange. I would think the 2004 would be about 8 seconds.. but even GM has it now at 8.5 ??

A 4 banger Altima is nearly as fast at 8.5...

These are the official 0-60 numbers according to Pontiac...

1997-2003 GTP is 6.8
1997-2003 GT/SE with 3800 is 8.0
2004 GT1/GT2 is 8.5
2004 GTP is 6.6
2004 GTP Comp is 6.5

gunit · October 2003

Pushrods have high end power too.. remember the Grand National 1985-1987, GTP or current Vette with pushrods??

A stock GTP is slightly faster then a Stock I35 in the quarter mile. A testament to the pushrod being faster at higher speeds too.

I don't know if you have ever raced at the track... but Remember this.. The infiniti I35 has a 15 horsepower advantage, 255 vs 240 is 200 pounds lighter, 3350 vs 3550 and has a better final drive gear ratio 3.50 vs 2.93 then the GTP. YET the GTP does the 1/4 mile slightly faster FASTER then the DOHC I35... LOL Stock vs Stock.

The GTP's engine was named to Wards top 10 engine list of the past 100 yrs, just like the VQ series engine in the I35 was. They are both good engines.

I own both have a 2001 I30t and a 2002 GTP. Both nice cars.. yes the I30 is much more refined then the GTP.. but the GTP is the more fun to drive and sportier of the 2. In most competitons the I35 finished 8 out of 10 in the entry luxury segment... most drivers thought it dull. Also the GTP garners the looks, knowone looks at a I30/I35 and says, Hey nice car.. they do all the time in the GTP coupe ! They are both good cars..

As for reliability my GTP has been just a tad more reliable then my I30t. Go figure? the I30t has been in for repair more then the GTP.

Also you can easily change the pulley on a GTP instantly adding 30 horsepower bumping it to 270 or 290 depending on if it's a '97'-'03 or a new '04! You can NOT mod the I35 as cheaply as that.

So pushrods are NOT only just about off the line acceleration. If you raced at that track you might know.
I see GTP's spanking I35/Maxima Auto trannies all the time.

Watch out for the 6spd manual Maxima... with proper mods that can be an entertaining race at the track.

gunit · October 2003

Regfootball,

0-60 in 8.5 seconds is NOT slow. As long as you car can do it in under 10 seconds you are ok, according to AAA.

I drove a rental grand prix GT many times with an 8.0 time, and it was fast enough... better then average!

Remember the 222 horsepower Maxima of 2000-2001 is also rated at 8 seconds too ! Where as the GTP was 6.8 in those years.. a full 1.2 seconds faster!

Any CAR that can do 0-60 in under 7 seconds is downright muscular !!

New GTP is still one of the fastest family sedans on the road at 6.5 in comp G form with a top speed of nearly 142 mph!!

gunit · October 2003

The GTP is a hard car to launch properly... it can very easily spin the wheels. Start slow and dig into it. any more then a 1/4 throttle stomp will lay rubber.

Where as on the I35/I30t a ful throttle smash to the floor will barely even chirp the tires... the car doesn't come to life until about 20mph! Alot of races are won/lost off the line... For in town driving the pushrod is far superior.

gunit · October 2003

The final thing to consider here is that the I35 costs about $5,000 more then a GTP. So the I35 should be a better car based on price.. LOL The both have their pluses minuses.. since I own both I can comment.

My 2001 I30t MSRP was $34,000 fully loaded except Navigation, leftover paid $28k
My 2002 GTP MSRP was $29,000 fully loaded, $3k rebate, leftover, paid $23k for $23k the GTP was a steal, very good car for that price

So the I35 better have a MUCH NICER interior to go along with it's $5k higher price tag!

regfootball · October 2003

too bad the GTP *needs* to be force fed to make any decent power since the basic design of the engine means it can't breathe enough on its own. and like who is gonna waste their productive time at home swapping supercharger pulleys on their car. 5% of people work on their own cars these days.

that same maxima if equipped with the bandaid blower will dust the GTP. They didn't have to resort to that to get real power out of it.

sorry, by today's standards, 8.5 seconds is slow for a v6 sedan. At a minimum, any v6 car should be able to crack below 8.0.

No one joins AAA today, nobody I know, not even the old people.

3800 hasn't been on wards list for a few years now, like 1999 i think when the shortstar replaced it. Why do suppose the shortstar booted the 3800 from the list?

Yeah the 3.8 is fine but a car like the GP should have other alternatives available as an option. Like the 'high feaTURE'. For some reason, at GM, the same type of engine everybody else builds typical, is considered a luxury or something.

wpbharry · October 2003

Been a member since 1974, and EVERONE in my family still is as well. Makes total sense if you keep your vehicle beyond the roadside coverage.

2 friends watched me use it last year, and then joined themslelves, neither of which is over 50.

Anyway, what does this have to do with ANYTHING???

P.S. reg, the Verona will likely hit 60 in 10.

dindak · October 2003

Can anyone confirm the 8.5 with a source? If true I wonder if the emission reductions in the series III caused the slower times?

Just for interest, anyone know what the 0-60 times of the new Bu with the new 3.5L OHV are?

midlifecrisis · October 2003

"too bad the GTP *needs* to be force fed to make any decent power since the basic design of the engine means it can't breathe enough on its own. and like who is gonna waste their productive time at home swapping supercharger pulleys on their car. 5% of people work on their own cars these days."

If you check out clubgp.com, that's the first mod everyone does to their GP. Thousands of enthusiasts are doing the pulley swap. It's cheap easy mod that supplies BIG performance improvements.

"sorry, by today's standards, 8.5 seconds is slow for a v6 sedan. At a minimum, any v6 car should be able to crack below 8.0."

My 99 Grand Am GT was a sub-8 second car. Nothing else in that category was close. As far a family mid-size sedans, most are well over 8 second cars. Within the last couple years, Nissan has changed that.

"No one joins AAA today, nobody I know, not even the old people."

I've been a member for the past 10 years. It has saved me several times, especially changing of flat tires on a busy dangerous highway.

rpdrpd · October 2003

I am considering a 2000 GTP Daytona edition with 33,000 miles; $12,000 asking price. I would appreciate any thoughts about the price, and what I should be looking out for. The car is garage-kept, immaculate in and out. It does need tires. I don't believe the car was driven hard. Thanks.

orwoody · October 2003

rpdrpd - if I recall there were maybe 1k-2k of the Daytonas built and I want to say they had more hp than the std 240hp, 260hp?
$12k seems reasonable for a "collector" edition. Check out an advance search on Goggle and see what you find.

Reg - a lot of folks join AAA these days. I buy memberships for Christmas presents....
I don't need to use their emergency services very often, but one flat tire on a cold wet night sure pays for the cost.... they also have other services.

rpdrpd · October 2003

I don't know yet if the Daytona has more HP. There were 2000 built. I checked out the GPOwners website but didn't see anything about the Daytona or its vaule.

The car is still available, sitting in the guy's front yard, for all to see. I took it for a test drive and it drives and feels fine. No squeeks, no rattles.

But I am still curious from all you GTP owners about potenital issues I should be concerned about.

dindak · October 2003

My brother in law bought a used GTP 2 years ago. He has done nothing but routine maintainence to it. Pretty solid cars mechanically.

As for the Daytona package, it's probably worth an extra 500-a grand or so. No extra HP that I know of, just an appearance option.

ab348 · October 2003

I noticed the same thing re. the black plastic trim last week at a dealership... the GPs built later without Uglycloth (TM Regd.) seem to have a more matte finish on the center dash applique in particular. It still needs to be interior color, not black, but at least it no longer had that oil-on-water sheen the early ones had.

wpbharry · October 2003

'tis been a busy week; apologize in advance if I did.

Just WHO tested the '04 GT at 8.5 0-60? All of the popular mags I know of have only tested the GTP Comp G (what else would you expect?).

Which unreliable source is this # coming from? The '04 Malibu (loaded with all the gizmos) clocks in at 7.9 (C&D 11/03).

I think both are understated, WAY understated in the GPs case by at least 0.3.

regfootball · October 2003

C/D usually has quicker times than most.

wpbharry · October 2003

(So, I agree, how's that for a change? Speaking of which, when is the big move? This weekend? Let me know so I can kick a good man when he's down (PC down, by the way) ;-).

C/D does exaggerate times. The '96 Monte Carlo Z34 that I had (oh joy, what a disaster) was clocked by C/D at 7.5, and it was a joke. More like 8.1 in reality.

But I can't believe the '04 GP GT is 8.5. No way, sorry. Haven't driven it yet, but it makes no sense.

Figs for the new Malibu might be right on, however. I'll bet 7.9 is just about right. Lighter vehicle, same hp, max torque at lower rpms. Maybe C/D finally got the message.

regfootball · October 2003

no move yet. townhouse won't sell. market is dead. no one shopping. economy for big purchases is in the tank. a year ago our units were selling in less than a week. mine's been on the market for 2 months. it can't be the interest rates, they are lower than they were a year ago when stuff was selling. I could put a whole political spin on it, and tell you who I'm NOT voting for in 2004, but that would be OFF TOPIC so I won't go there.

Even the guys who work at car dealers are reporting now that new car sales are dropping again as the incentives nabbed everyone it could and now not even incentives will get the next group of folks to buy.

dindak · October 2003

It depends on the region you live in. Houses around here sell in a week still, market is hot. Bought a new freezer last night and there were 3 other couples waiting for a sales person to help them. That said, car sales have fallen off here also.

I think GM is tweeking the GP quietly based on feedback from dealers. All good!

johnclineii · October 2003

So does that mean "The Early Bird gets the beta version?"

dindak · October 2003

Certainly true of 03 Accord buyers.

;-)

wpbharry · October 2003

I'm not gonna rub it in, because I am a nice dude.

And all 3 of you are too.

And you know what? We're all pretty smart, too.

As far as good looking and smart, well, I better shut up while I'm ahead. Blonde&blue. Too bad, so sad.

At least I live in the place that makes national news every other week. Dolphins up next, '04 election fiasco after that. Home to TX.

dakota388 · October 2003

I have an '04 GT2. Since the first week of ownership, I have had problems with the "check gas cap" light coming on. The car has been in the shop twice and sensors replaced both times. Yet, the light continues to come on. I just wondered if anyone else has encountered this problem and if there is a solution my dealership cannot seem to find. Thanks for any help.

midlifecrisis · October 2003

I think you're the only one I've heard with this problem. Sounds like there is a seal problem, not a sensor problem. If the gas system is not completely air tight, it will detect a problem. That's why the light comes on when you don't tighten the gas cap all the way.

The dealer should be able to do a pressure test on the gas system to detect any issues.

sdrofon · November 2003

I'm new to this board because I'm new to GM cars. I owned Fords all my life, but I need a new car and they have nothing I want. I'm looking at the GP GT1. I want the driver's options with the power seat, rims, etc., but I'm debating getting the Enhanced Traction control option for a couple of reasons" 1) $600 2) I talked to GM and you can't turn it off (sometimes it's might be better to gun it up a snowy hill than rely on the traction control) and (3) it's something else that can break, probably -- with my luck -- after the warranty expires. Bottom line: I'm not sure it's worth it. I figured I'd ask you guys. What do you think? Are my concerns reasonable or is traction control a must? Your opinions would be much appreciated. thanks, Mike

montanafan · November 2003

COST-The $600 cost is for the combination of Anti-Lock Brakes (ABS) and Enhanced Tranction Control . (It may even be possible that your insurance company may offer a small discount for ABS, some have in the past) At the start of production, this was a required option for the GT1, so you may have a hard time finding cars in dealer inventory with out it.

OFF-The ETC does have an off switch, located on the floor console just behind the shift lever, so it can be turned off.

FUTRUE COST-GM's ETC is just ABS backwards, so in is just software programming. But yes the ABS (so the ETC)does have hard parts that could fail. Most common ABS/ETC problems are wiring or sensor related. Some sensors are part of the Hub & Bearing, so can be expensive ($300-$400).

NEED-I believe the ABS and therefore the ETC benefits, especially in bad weather, out weigh the potential repair costs.
Good luck with your search and purchase.

sdrofon · November 2003

Thanks for the advice. My father-in-law also feels that it is worthwhile. Looks like I'm headed in that direction. Thanks again, Mike

hoosierdaddy2 · November 2003

Bought a black GT2 Labor Day weekend, already put 7K miles on it. I wanted everything: good-looking, fun, but practical too for a traveler. $2750 in rebates and $100 over invoice helped. I'm pretty happy so far, but a little disappointed in mpg. I have driven a lotta cars over the years and find I get a little better than the EPA highway number on a pure highway trip, and a little worse than the city number in town. My best was 28 mpg on a trip to Michigan and back, cruise control @74 mph, no a/c. Worst on the highway was 24 mpg for mostly highway, some suburban driving. I got 16 over a couple days of city/suburban/some hwy. Putting my foot into it is tempting in this car but I pay for it at the pump.

dindak · November 2003

With 7 k, the 3800 should be broken in. 74mph will not yield the best mileage however, try 55-60 next time. If that doesn't work, have your dealer check it out.

midlifecrisis · November 2003

Your mileage is pretty good considering you are driving a gigantic 6-cylinder engine. A 3.8L engine is almost the biggest available on the market for a V-6.

I've been averaging 26-27 MPG in mixed driving, which is 2-3 MPG MORE than my 99 Grand Am, which had a smaller 3.4 L engine.

I believe the 3800 engine is one of the most economical engines ever built.

dindak · November 2003

We used to always get around 30 highway with our old 3800 GP SE.

GM will have a 3900 next year in the new Pontiac G6 that will be equipped with DOD and produce around 240hp.

ruski · November 2003

I wonder how long it will take for DOD to wake up when the car is cruising along and someone wants to challenge it for a quick race.

dindak · November 2003

According to Toronto Star journalists testing it in Las Vegas (in a GP), the response time is not noticeably different than without DOD.

regfootball · November 2003

new c/d reports a 8.1 0-60 for the GP GT2. All you pushrod lovers no need to fret.

0-100 of 24.7 rather slow. 5-60 street start lethargic at 8.7. 1/4 miles of 16.2 @ 85mph seconds a bit leisurely as well. Takes 6.5 seconds to get from 85 mph to 100mph? yeah, its running on fumes by then.

Observed fuel economy of 23mpg.

"operating with an asthmatic growl that's probably intended to suggest sportiness"

and other comments kind and not kind but none of them too sharp edged. None of them glowing either.

"GOOD LOOKING ADEQUACY ENHANCED BY INCENTIVES"

midlifecrisis · November 2003

Can't say I've had the need to accelerate from 85 to 100 mph very often. Then again, in NJ, I'm happy to be going 70 mph on the interstate without hitting congestion.

dindak · November 2003

If you are aren't passing people at 85 and need to accelerate further to do so, you likely can afford lots of tickets and hence a faster car.

dindak · November 2003

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/031104-3.htm

evandro · November 2003

Thanks, but no thanks.

Ever considered moving to Australia? ;-)

regfootball · November 2003

just read MT's and C/D's GTO review. MT in general was gushing about the interior.

Its nice to see the Aussies show NA GM how to build a decent interior. Too bad the GP wasn't as nice.

dindak · November 2003

And how much does the GTO cost again?

vcjumper · November 2003

Has a nicer interior than the Vette.

dan165 · November 2003

Have not been around in a while, not much to say except my GT2 is the most trouble free car I have every had (foreign or domestic). Still no issues at all to report.

The 3.9L engine GM is apparently coming out with sounds really good. 240 hp with improved mileage and regular gas would be quite a milestone. Who says push rod motors are dead!

I read today in the paper that GM will have a hybrid Silverado out in the spring and it will add $3000 U.S. to the price tag for a 10-15% gain. I think GM is putting these out because it feels it has to (ie Honda/Toyota are doing it) , not because it's a really good idea. Seems to me DOD is a much better and cheaper way to push mileage numbers up.

regfootball · November 2003

you beat me to the punch on that one!

regfootball · November 2003

hybid mileage goes up a lot more than 10-15%. In the case of the prius its like 50% or more.

dindak · November 2003

Not on a truck it doesn't, 15% is about right. Mileage increase on cars in the real world has been closer to 30% from what I read. Takes a lot miles to make up $3000-7000 price difference.

regfootball · November 2003

oh, and what trucks out there do you have to use as a reference for your 15% claim. Didn't think so.

The most generous claim from worthy sources (that is not GM trumpeteers) is a real world 8% increase from DoD.

vcjumper · November 2003

Don't seem to be economically feasible for most. If DOD doesn't cost any extra up front, whats to complain about.

Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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