Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

midlifecrisis · April 2004

Try getting all these incentives on the CamAccords! You can get a GP for probably $5K less than a CamAccord with discounts, rebates, APR, etc. Yes, the imports hold resale value better, but not to the tune of $5K.

evandro · April 2004

Not to mention the interest on that $5000 difference!

You know, when I was shopping for a car, when I bought my Bonneville, I considered an Accord. According to Edmund's true cost of ownership estimates, over 5 years, even though the Accord was $2000 cheaper than the Bonneville, with better resale value and supposedly more reliable, it would cost me the same. Thanks to the 2.9% interest from GM and 5.9% from Honda and the Accord's exorbitant premium.

Boy, am I happy with my Bonneville!

tateos · April 2004

Thanks for the clarification!

tateos · April 2004

Kiplingers magazine had an article in their 2/04 issue about cars holding their value. I suggest you look for it if you are interested.

In a nutshell, they give the example of a G35 with a sticker of ~30K and a 3 year residual of 60% vs. a Sable with a sticker of ~$24K and a residual of 32%. Based on those figures, the G35 will cost $4,400 less to drive for 3 years. They go on to say, however that the Infiniti will sell for at or close to sticker, while the Sable will sell for about $19K after all discounts and rebates. The bottom line is that the Sable will actually cost less in depreciation over the 3 years.

Interesting.

midlifecrisis · April 2004

Thanks for that information, because that clarifies my point as well. People get all excited about this resale issue with CamAccords, but they are not looking at the big picture.

The only people that make out on this are Honda and Toyota because they are making a lot more money per car. The car owners end up paying a lot more in the long run.

Not to mention the additional cost of getting maintenance done at Toyota and Honda dealers. I know plenty of owners that have complained about that. I try and bite my tongue when they bring up this issue.....

montanafan · April 2004

My plumber charges $80 bucks an hour. He has a 15+ year old Ford Econoline van, and the wrench his father gave him. If a dealership charging $100 an hour is not a bargin, what does that make my plumber? ;-)

midlifecrisis · April 2004

My point was that people have complained to me that Toyota and Honda dealers require their car owners to do very expensive warranty maintenance work at specific mileage intervals.

I know GM also recommends this type of service, but you don't actually have to get it all done, nor do you have to get it done at a GM dealership to keep the warranty. I'm not sure how Toyota and Honda handle their warranty maintenance, but I have heard a lot of complaints from their owners.

tateos · April 2004

Depreciation is only 1 part of the total cost of ownership, and cost is only 1 part of the total car ownership experience. I have always bought US cars, but must concede that the Japanese cars seem to have a better track record for reliability.

I remember back in the 60s and 70s when they were more reliable but the American cars such as Grand Prixs were more durable - at least that was my perception. I thought the Japanese cars with small 4 cylinder engines and tinny bodies would go fewer total miles vs Grand Prixs built with big, substantial drivetrains and chassis and bodies, but that isn't the case anymore. The Japanese cars have gone upscale to meet US expectations, and the Grand Prixs have gone downscale to save weight and cost.

I never found US carmaker service departments to be any bargain - I think one near where I live here in the Phoenix area charges about $100 an hour, and you know the parts are a rip-off too.

Bottom line, I think the automotive market is very competitive, there is free access to a lot of information with the advent of the internet, and you get what you pay for. Nowadays, pretty much all cars are good. Japanese cars have a lower depreciation, but have a higher initial cost, so it evens out. Drive what you can afford and what you like

tateos · April 2004

I could be wrong, but I think at least some of the Hondas and Toyotas have a timing belt, which requires preiodic replacement (60K miles?) vs. a timing chain, which can last well over 100K, perhaps outlasting the enginre and the rest of the car. And they tell you to change the water pump at the same time, since they are in there already. So at 60K, you have an automatic, significant repair bill. I know some US cars also have belts - some Fords and Chryslers, I think - not sure about GM.

If I am wrong about this, I apologize, but I think this is the case, or at least was the case.

RM

rkw2 · April 2004

I took delivery of my 2004 GP I about 6 weeks ago. I am very pleased with the car. I had a lease on a 2000 Olds Alero which I turned in early under the GM program. The GP is getting about 24 mpg.....mostly stop and go, short distance NJ driving. The Alero got about 21 mpg. I find the front seats are very comfortable and my 2 teen age kids liek the back seats.

I have a couple of questions for other owners.
1) Lasst weekend it was about 75 degrees.(First hint that winter in NJ was over). The car was abominally and uncomfortably hot. Car is dark green with black interior. I felt this when I first got into the car and also when driving with AC off.I have another car that is black on black that doesn't get this hot at 75 degrees. Is this normal or common.
2) When the windows are open a small amount the air pressure gets screwed up and everyone feels as though their ears are clogged.Anyone else experience this? I've been driving for 30+ years and have never experienced this.
3) Does anyone have trouble setting cruise control. Dealer says that mine meets specs. But I often cannot set it.

Thanks

midlifecrisis · April 2004

I have an orange GP with grey leather interior, so I don't know if the heat issue is the same. My previous Grand Am had a dark grey cloth interior and used to get pretty hot. I get the air pressure issue as well, but I have experienced that on almost every car I've owned. If you slightly open the rear window in tandem with the front window, it relieves the pressure. I have had no problems setting the cruise control. What specifically are your problems with it?

bigdaddycoats · April 2004

in a review of the Acura TL

"That nose-heavy feel is common in front-wheel-drive cars with powerful drivetrains, but the TL's handling and steering response fell far short of the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, which is probably the best-handling front-drive midsize sedan."

read the review here

http://www.freep.com/money/autoreviews/phelan22_20040422.htm

evandro · April 2004

It's been quite a while when any member of the press has praised any American car. And think that the stooges at MotorWeek branded the Altima as the "enthusiast car of choice", even with perhaps the worst torque steering in the market, something rare in GM sedans. The king is naked and only the press doesn't realize, still drooling at what deserves a barf. :-)

midlifecrisis · April 2004

Ironically I just saw a new TL on the road and I think it is a very hot looking car.....

tateos · April 2004

Thanks for that one - I am (pleasantly) shocked that the Acura lost out to the Pontiac. I sent the article to my cousin who bought a 2004 TL nine days ago. I'm sure the TL is a nice car, even if it doesn't handle as well as ours.

ruski · April 2004

yeah, I just hope the new TLs have a better transmission than the three trannies in my 2002 TL-S.

midlifecrisis · April 2004

A Honda product with problems??

dan165 · April 2004

I love the look of the TL and I'm surprised to see that it has issues. 2 out of 4, ouch.

Honda doesn't seem to be what it used to be these days.

carguy58 · April 2004

"Honda doesn't seem to be what it used to be these days."

I don't expect a problem free Honda product. You make more you burn more meaning you make more cars you have more problems with them.

I always notice GM fans knocking Honda and than Honda fans knocking Mazda. Its kinda funny after awhile.

johnclineii · April 2004

Uh huh. Yugo, Kia, the older Jags.

There IS a quality difference still between the US makes and the Asians. Believe it or not, both are now superior to the European cars sold in the US...according to recent studies. The European cars quality has not improved as quickly as have the others. This is particularly true for BMW and Mercedes, but you don't read much about that.

midlifecrisis · April 2004

I tried to talk a co-worker out of buying a BMW with no luck. It was leased for 3 years and had a few problems. And the car cost nearly $40K. Then they bought a Chevy Trailblazer and it hasn't had any problems at all.

dan165 · April 2004

I think Honda and Toyota bring up the Asian average because I don't see any evidence that Nissan, Mazda, Subaru and others are any better than GM. Our neighbor actually told me not to ever buy a Nissan after all the trouble he has had with his Altima.

All I know is the Grand Prix is a solid reliable car and anyone looking at a midsize will not go wrong with one.

carguy58 · April 2004

cas have their problems. As far as the Europeans are concerned all that electrical junk they put in their cars tarnishes their quality ratings. What magazine or automotive colomnist has actually said something positive about BMW's I-Drive? I can't remember anybody saying something positive about the I-Drive.

If every car was built like a lemon no car brand would be an existence right now. If every GM car was built like my Mom's 92 Grand AM was GM would be out of business. My Mom did give GM one more chance and it has worked out well.

I have heard horror about every brand of car(Ford, GM, Mazda, and Toyota.) I have heard it all.

midlifecrisis · April 2004

Don't forget horrors of this brand, I have many bad stories about them!

fgriff1 · April 2004

I noticed that my engine bay was quite dirty after only 1500 miles. did some research and found a TSB posted at Clubgp.com forums. Seems that the fenderwall cover (in the wheel well-Front) was trimed short. There is a gap you can put your hand through! Look at the engine bay, you can see your tire tread. well there is a TSB out. her is the info from ClupGP.com

TSB 0-408-63-004

Engine Compartment Dirty in Front of Shock Tower (Install Wheelhouse Liner) #04-08-63-004 - (04/01/2004)

Engine Compartment Dirty in Front of Shock Tower (Install Wheelhouse Liner)
2004 Pontiac Grand Prix

Condition
Some customers may comment that the engine compartment is dirtier than normal right in front of the shock tower.

Cause

The wheel house may have been trimmed short. Refer to the arrow in the illustration above. There shouldn't be a gap between the liner and the frame of the shock tower.

Correction
Replace the wheelhouse liner. Refer to SI Document ID #1242911.

Looks like a few have had this fixed. So will I
Frank

tateos · April 2004

Good job - thanks for this info!

fgriff1 · April 2004

Here are the part #s courtesy of ClubGP.com. Pretty cheap part. My dealer just order them today.

Frt Left 21998881
Frt Right 21998882

The parts are $3.70 each on GMpratsdirect.com

orwoody · April 2004

JD Powers initial quality results just released. Interestingly Honda out scored Acura significantly and Kia was over 10 pts ahead of VW.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7086&sid=17- 5&n=156

midlifecrisis · April 2004

The race to quality has really tightened!

dan165 · April 2004

I saw those new reports and as good as Hyundai may seem to be now, long term I don't have any faith in those cars. I have seen friends and co-workers curse them too often.

Nice that GM continues to improve. Cadillac's new plant seems to be giving Lexus a run for the money.

montanafan · May 2004

Only the forward part of the trunk has been lined in all the cars I have seen. Surprised you have seen some without. The portion behind the number plate isn't linded.

dan165 · May 2004

Why do you need it lined?

harddrivet · May 2004

Hello, I have a 98 Gran Prix with 112,000 Miles on it. It runs great, looks great. My Heat/AC Fan control will only work in the highest position. In other words I can only turn heat or AC on full blast or nothing. Any ideas on how I can fix this without paying an arm and a leg to the dealer?

fgriff1 · May 2004

Same happened to my 98. Turn out to be a commen problem. The dealer replaced the "Blower Motor Resistor" I had the dealer replace, because it is in a hard to reach place. Cost was around ~100.Here is some info I found on grandprix.net, hope this helps

I just replaced the blower motor resistor in my 97. My blower motor would only work on the 2 highest speeds 4 & 5. The part number for mine was 15304891. The resistor is located in the passenger side footwell. Remove the panel below the glove box. You will see the blower motor mounted in the HVAC unit. Just forward of the blower motor is the resistor which is mounted right up next to the firewall with 3 screws. It has 2 wire connectors, 1 square and 1 long rectangular. 1st remove the rearward screw and then loosen the front 2 screws. The resistor should slide out at that point. The front 2 screws are a little difficult to get to because they are so close to the firewall so a universal joint on your 1/4" ratchet/driver might help. My old resistor looked pretty bad with much of the green coating on the circuit board peeled or missing perhaps due to moisture. Hope this info helps. Good luck.

midlifecrisis · May 2004

With gas prices going through the roof, I have found myself taking the family on longer trips in the GP, as opposed to our Chevy Avalanche truck. I can get close to double the MPG than the truck and it still has plenty of room for a family of four and luggage.

This summer we have to travel out to Columbus Ohio from NJ. The round trip will be nearly 1000 miles. I calculated that we could save about $60 in gas by taking the GP as opposed to the truck. That ain't no chump change!

evandro · May 2004

True, but, let's face it, $60 will not make or break your trip when compared to meals and lodging.

I'm just trying to put the high gas prices in perspective...

midlifecrisis · May 2004

True, $60 is not the end of the world. But it would cover the cost of a dinner or two!

If gas continues to rise, it may end up being a $100 savings!

evandro · May 2004

Not meaning to start an argument, but that's yet another reason why I don't buy trucks. I don't haul stuff around and don't have a boat, besides, I hate their driving experience.

Meanwhile, I enjoy a spirited and comfortable drive and up to 32MPG on the highway.

But no one has to agree with me...

Enjoy your GP! ;-)

harddrivet · May 2004

Thank You much for your response. I did find this sems to be a common occurance in the 98 and later Gran Prix. It seems to be the resistor. Unfortunately I had a problem yesterday where I had put my driver side window down and it would not go back up, I took the car to the dealer and they replaced the toggle switch ($135), While I was there I asked for a quote on the AC Fan control knob. Pontiac told me it was a combination of the resistor and the blower motor and both needed to be replaced and that would cost $397, I told them I would live with my AC until the blower motor went completely. That is just to costly for me right now. I don't know why but everytime I take my car to the dealer I feel like I am being ripped off.

midlifecrisis · May 2004

My Avalanche rides as nice or better than the GP. And I need it to tow my large popup camper, while hauling camping equipment, bikes, canoe and firewood.

Ironically, it doesn't get that much less MPG than the Ford Windstar it replaced. Around town, the Windstar was only getting 16-18 MPG anyway. On the road it barely broke 20 MPG.

evandro · May 2004

I've yet to find a truck I could throw around corners as I do with sedans...

dan165 · May 2004

I find a lot of mileage estimates to be crap. Vans which are suppose to be better than SUVs are often not.

I have to say though, with gas prices where they are I am happy to be driving my 04 GP rather than the 02 Yukon I had before. My wife's lease is up in the summer on the Bravada so we may scale back a bit with a Equinox, especially if prices at the pumps stay high.

midlifecrisis · May 2004

I drove the GP round trip 400 miles over the weekend, with 4 of us and luggage, etc. I got over 28 mpg on the road!

evandro · May 2004

I traveled over 3000mls to the Grand Canyon with my Bonneville and it got 29MPG. On a 200ml. trip, my Intrigue got 32MPG. Both of my cars cost me about $130 in fuel last month, or roughly $1500 per year. I don't care about an expense that represents single-digit percent point of my gross income.

fgriff1 · May 2004

Sounds like the dealer is tring to get more $$. I doubt that the blower is bad. My Blower Resistor was replaced about 8 months ago, and no problems since. I would just have this part replaced. Is there another dealer nearby? Pontiac or any GM dealer?
Frank

sweetiekl01 · May 2004

Hi I just purchased a 2004 Grand Prix GT2 and love it but when I drive the wipers and fluid come on and stay on by themselves it sprays and sparays all over the car. It happened 3x yesterday and it empties out the washer fluid. Also when the wipers are on in the rain the driver wiper goes of the windsheild (it goes out to far) and bangs across the windsheild. Does anyone else have the same problem or know of anyone who does. It is so frustrating when you buy something new and it has problems the first time you take it out!

johnclineii · May 2004

Take it back and get it fixed.

This ain't right and it is under warranty!

dan165 · May 2004

Sounds like the sprayer needs adjusting. Mine has never been a problem, wipers work well too.

harddrivet · May 2004

Yes, I am going to get another quote.
Thanks.

dan165 · June 2004

Sure is quiet here, yikes!

Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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