Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I'm still not decided but leaning more toward the Impala (safety ratings a plus
and I think the access to cruise etc. would be a plus) Gotta love that Grand Prix
look though. Along with many race fans- the spouse and I watched the race
and were not surprised but saddened at the death of Dale Earnhardt. We've
seen some spectacular crashes at Indy and were looking forward to the new
track in Joliet opening. It's interesting that while we have different favorites
hubby and I both like Stewart. (That Grand Prix is a good looking car) It's
also interesting to note that many of the great safety features all automobiles
have come from race car inovations. No answers to my earlier question
about the future of Oldsmobile and it's service huh?
take a look at torque ratings too.
Thanks to Edmunds site or I doubt I could have done that well!
I just couldn't get into the red dash for 5 years and the Controls on that unistick did not thrill me.
I'll admit the steering/handling is more responsive on the GP but that wasn't enough. Let you
know if I have any regrets.
I have a 2000 Buick Regal GS. Basically, the same car as GTP, with the same powertrain, lower body and a lot of common parts. It have very similar behavior, especially concerning acceleration.
The engine torque is maximal at about 3600 rpm, and the torque falls gradually after 4000. Except you like to drive at red line, 5000 rpm is the max. See link
http://www.gmpowertrain.com/engines_cartruck/other/38l67_torque.htm
Though, it does not matter at all. When cruising at 75 mph, engine makes about 2200 rpm. After stepping on gas to pass, the torque jumps to 3600 almost immediately, even with performance shift off. The acceleration at 3600-4000 rpm is outstanding, and supercharger helps a lot here.
Better to watch your speed: otherwise, when you glance at speedometer after finishing with passing, it turns to be 96 mph. And it does not matter that you passed uphill.
It happened two times with me - the first week after buying the car, before I could learn it behavior. Clearly did not intend to drive so fast. It took probably just a couple of seconds, or three - how long it takes to pass? Fortunately, there was no police around.
Have no experience with faster speed, and do not want to have. Any case, Regal (as sold in US/Canada) have T-rated tires and is governed at 110 or 115 mph.
GP GTP is governed at higher speed, 125 or 130 mph, if I remember it right. But it hardly does matter. Who drives regularly faster than 85-90-100 mph on the US highways? It would be not a simple speeding, but the reckless one.
The GTP makes 32 lb.ft. more torque 750 RPM earlier than the Intrepid R/T. This equals better acceleration if weight is equal. The GTP makes 2 less HP than the R/T but it does it at 1200 RPM less than the R/T. During normal driving, the GTP is always operating in the range of it's torque peak. To get the power from the R/T you have to find it at high RPMs. Why does the Viper accelerate so good? Low end torque. The GTP and R/T have totally different engines making power in different ways. I like lots of torque at low RPM so I bought the GTP. Everyone has a different opinion. When buying a car it is just as important to look at the engine's torque curve along with the peak HP number. Have fun.
BTW-I have that thumping noise in the rear too - usually when I back out of the driveway!!
Both Regal and Impala are built in Canada. The production quality at the Ontario(?) plant is better than at the Kansas(?) one, where GP and Intrigue are manufactured.
Though, the difference is not so high, either between the above plants, nor between different cars in general. Practically all current cars have between 100 and 200 initial defects, i.e. one or two per vehicle is typical. Most of the numbers are in 125 to 175 range. Japanese models generally have less defects than American, but not so substantially.
I read this survey, but do not remember where, as well as do not remember the exact numbers: it was several month ago, if not a whole year.
psibayan--while "lemon laws" are a bit different from state-to-state, in general, GM has 3 chances to fix your engine right. If they can't, over a reasonable amount of time, then they will be subject to buying the car back via lemon laws. If they agree to give you a new engine, I would ask for a "free" GM extended, bumper-to-bumper warranty as well as a free rental car while your car is being repaired. Keep all of you communications information with the dealer and GM as back up. If the new engine fails, then you may have a case that you can take to arbitration under lemon laws in your state. The 3.1 engine has been around awhile and has seemed to be one of their "tried and true" designs. They've been using this engine for a while. My guess would be that the new one will perform quite well.
I think the GP interior is more of personal thing. because of the shapes and "textures" of buttons and knobs, it may appear to have a cheaper look than other cars. But it isn't cheap, so it becomes a personal preference. My 2000 GP GT with over 17,000 has had no problems!!
Psibayan, i feel for you. I had a 2000 Monte Carlo SS bought back; however, I did give GM several tries to fix it. I don't think they will do much for you after just one try. Give the new engine a chance. If you still have concerns, you'll need to try once more, then you'll have a case(depending on state law). I think the dealer should provide and extended warranty to you, if for no other reason than to retain customer loyalty.
Lastly, has anyone tried a K & N filter. I am very interested as to whether any increased horsepower was felt!
thx
toon
Unfortunantly you were one of the unlucky ones that has a major defect upon purchase. This I can assure you is not the norm. My GTP has operated flawlessly since I purchased it in 9/00. I love the car even more today than I did when I got it. I would not hesitate purchasing another one.
In regards to your problem - I can tell you that many manufacturers aren't sympathetic when it comes to handling these issues. A friend of mine had 200 miles on his BMW 323i when the tranny blew, and he demanded a new car, but was only able to get his tranny replaced.
Having the engine replaced is probably the better thing - since it's *new* and potentially is not damaged from faulty pistons. From a legal aspect, they dont have to give you a new car. If they can fix it within a reasonable amount of time, they are fufilling their obligations.
From a customer service aspect, they should know better. They should at least give you some freebies for your trouble. (extended warranty). I can tell you that Pontiac Cares will always want you to take the dealer route when it comes to fixing the problem. They dont have a magic wand to make the dealer give you a new car.
If you still have problems, try calling the troubleshooter (www.troubleshooter.com)
You probably should go with a CAI system instead - no use getting more air if it's hot!!
Gains are typically ~ 5 hp from what I have heard.
I installed a CAI system from MSP (motorsport performance). It is essentially a 9" K&N with plastic housing that is insulated from Engine heat. The difference is incredible! It is generally agreed in the GTP community that this MSP CAI would add about 10hp. I believe it!!
Many people have changed the CAI system, with great results. I would recommend MSP, but they're the most costly at around $260; but they do include a case for your PCM, and headsheild for the F-duct. Thrasher makes a similar one for a little less, and RAT does also (though they are having some customer service issues, I understand).
I can say that MSP fit was excellent; didn't have any problems with the install.
Doing this CAI mod along with U-bend removal would be good for about 7 hp, but that's just a guess. The stock airbox is very restrictive!
However it has an inertia locking mechanism that will make sure that the seatback is locked upright in case you slow down quickly.
Currently, I'm running stock Costco 87 octane, and occasionally run 89 through her. While I don't notice any usual pinging/knocking from the engine, I'm wondering if people really see a difference running the better grades.
BTW, it almost makes me cry when I think of the past 2 years I wasted owning a Malibu...
BTW, my wife and I have the supercharged Regal GS and 98 Malibu, with older 155hp(?) 3.1l engine. We like both cars. Especially after replacing the OEM Affinity tires by SH-30. With the new tires the cornering, handling and road feel are so much better. This was almost like buying a new car.
Buick is much more comfortable for longer trips, but for 2 hours or less driving Malibu is absolutely adequate. This is for my tastes, and I am almost 50 and overweight. My wife is younger and lighter; she consider Malibu adequate for at least 3-4 hours driving.
For city driving Malibu, probably, is even better than Regal: very nimble, and easier to park, especially in garage. The acceleration also is very adequate for city.
After looking at the previous posts on this board, there are some questions I have that will greatly affect the decision to buy a GP...
Granted, I know that most people come to forums like this to express dissatisfaction or problems with their vehicles. On the other hand there are those who will defend their cars till the end. Makes, sense. How often do you hear good news? Most happy owners just go about their business. It's the horror stories that we read and those are what most people, in my opinion, focus on.
I have read many posts here and other places re: the tranny on GP's. On an aftermarket GP site, they sell and recommend a tranny cooler. They sell one that is about 60% larger than the stock one and claim it can double the life of the transmission. For $60-$100, installed, is a small price to pay to prevent what seems to be a trouble prone transmission at times. What concerns me is adding parts to a brand new car. Is there any chance that doing this could affect the tranny or other systems negatively?
I hope to get some valuable info from all of you.
Thanks! RR
Yeah, I didn't think I really needed the mid or premium. My Dad was a mechanic, and I know most people buying the higher grades are under the mistaken impression that they will get better performance from their standard compression engines. Actually, as I understand it, the higher octane is really lowering their actual power, because its harder to burn... At least, thats how it was decribed to me. I agree, the Malibu is a great $15000 car for the money. Except, that its made by Chevy...
I think the Malibu was slightly easier in downtown SF traffic though. Evfen though its basically the same length +4 inches, it seemed a little more manueverable. Read my post ~#600, sure saved my life quite possibly.
I don't know about the Regal, but the Lesabre I rented last year was awesome!
Power, and comfort worth paying for.
Just filled up with hitest, and noticed what seemed to be a slight improvement on the freeway. However, can't figure out my true mileage as I commute 2hrs/day. Todays fillup was 12.5 gallons/280 miles. Guess thats ok, considering the commute and my lead foot.
The tranny cooler seems like a good idea though.
Woul be nice if someone could post a list of mods for the GT that increase performance, while not voiding the warranty.
thanks,
Fred
A cosmetic note: the '99 and '00 (I think) model years offered the thick 5 spoke aluminum wheels. I like those much better than the current choices. The GP brochure says that those are only available on the '01 SE. The GT and GTP come with the God awful 3 spokes which I would'nt even consider, or the 5 spoke torque star wheels. I suppose those are OK, but I really like the older style. Why can't they just bolt them on anyway - what's this availability crud?
Maybe I could barter them of my buddy's GTP...
RR
Anyhow.....Took the Intrepid R/T for a ride the other night and was loving it till i looked at all the standard features it did'nt have,The GTP has many more Standard "bells and whistles" than the R/T,My big concern was the extra money being spent on premium fuel,Appx.$200.oo a year,when you think about it really isn't alot.
The R/T rode very nicely for having 17" rims but i walked away from the dealer feeling like i wasn't satisfied with the car!I will be taking the GTP for a test ride this week and will get back here with my feelings,I have posed the question of the GTP or the R/T to a half dozen of my friends and not one picked the Dodge!
Has anybody towed a small trailer with the GTP??,
He's offered some "tidbits" of information that may be relevant to the redesign, however.
GM has done testing on a 3.5L DOHC supercharged engine that gets 300HP and almost as much torque (about 280) in the current GP. The problem is putting that engine/tranny in a FWD car, though.
GM has a "test" GrandAM with the newer 3.4L engine that was supercharged, also. I think that one of the car mags actually has driven it and says it could be a successor to the GTO. I suppose it could be used in a GP GTP.
They've also done some tests with a smaller V8 (shortstar) in the GP. This engine is used in the soon to be defunct Aurora.
If any (or none) of these engines end up in the next generation GP is anyone's guess.
General consensus is that the GP will be redesigned for the 2003 MY.
Most cars with bad reps and lots of complaints would not have so many resources and enthusiasts dedicated to it.
Apart from the tranny cooler - yes heat is the enemy of the transmission. Putting a cooler in might reduce temps, especially if you do a lot of city driving. There is no harm in installing it, other than the person doing the install screwing it up. (causing a leak). It would be a good time to change to all synthetic tranny fluid also.
But, I've seen people who had tranny problems despite that. (mostly people who mod their cars). Because the GP tranny can't handle that much more than stock, when you start boosting the power with a smaller pully, etc. you are taking a risk that your tranny life will be reduced.
I only went out for a 15 mile ride but had planned it out to give a varying terrain to drive on,handles bumps great,very tame around town,likes to merge onto the highway at full throttle.......I found after driving a 117 horse toyota P/U for 6 years this is alot of car....and two hands on the wheel are mandatory when stuffing the pedal to the floorboards!
I have never driven a car this powerful before and am very anxious to go look for the one i want (Navy blue with Graphite leather,Basically the 1SB package w/the Bose system)My decision is FINAL,there will be a GTP in my Garage before Summer........
Second, the maximum engine torque for 4T80-E is 305 lb-ft. Not so much more than 280 lb-ft for 4T65-E MN-7 model at GTP and Regal GS. And substantially less than the 350 lb-ft for 4L60-E. The maximum gearbox torques are 460 vs. 400; 670 for 4L60-E.
The third problem is weight (and size). The GTP transaxle weights 214 lbs (97kg), the Cadillac one - 295 lbs (134 kg). Huge difference.
The much stronger rear-wheel-drive transmission weights only 162.5 lbs (73 kg) - because it does not include the "axle" part.
All this information is easily available on Internet:
http://www.gmpowertrain.com/transmissions/4l60_main.htm
http://www.gmpowertrain.com/transmissions/4t80_main.htm
http://www.gmpowertrain.com/transmissions/4t65_main.htm