Toyota Prius (First Generation)

dscott2210 · June 2003

I just saw a Prius TV ad that I haven't seen before. One would think that detail specs and prices would be available. Soon?? Supposedly I'm on the list to receive info from Toyota when available. But nothing yet. Any body know more yet??

pzev · June 2003

Sorry if this has been talked about a bunch of times already, just wanted to throw some info in. When the new Prius was first shown, I was looking forward to it but lost interest very quickly because I thought the back was fairly ugly. I need to see it in real life before I decide but from the pictures I've seen it's not very attractive in my opinion. Well anyway, today I was looking around for info on the Scion xA and ran into a summary on the Prius from the auto show. A Toyota official said pricing will be "around $19,000." This was supposedly the senior vice president and general manager of Toyota Division who said this so this may be true. I would post the article but not sure if I'm allowed to, besides I'm sure most of you have read this already. Also it said an executive from the Toyota Technical Center was claiming a combined horsepower of 106 and "a 0-60 time of 10 seconds or less." It's also on a new platform and is rated as a mid-size instead of a compact. After reading all these tidbits I have some renewed interest in it. I thought it would be slower than that and also be around 21k instead of around 19k.

So here's my question, for you guys who have been keeping up with all the info, is this stuff true? Is this the 0-60 estimates and pricing info that's going around? Sounds almost too good to be true.

pzev · June 2003

Have a question also about the HIDs. Can someone look at your headlights and tell if you have the HID option or not? So if someone wants to steal your HIDs and you have a car that has HIDs optional but not standard, can the person look at it and tell if you have it or not?

tysalpha · June 2003

>can the person look at it and tell if you have it or not?

In general, I would say yes, they could tell. Xenon lamps require a special middle lens inside the lamp, to control the light's leveling. (Kind of like a gyroscope with a glass lens). So all the would-be thief has to do, is look at the lamp closely.

Although, it's also true that in a lot of newer car designs, some companies have made lamps that LOOK like HID, but are ordinary halogens. (The Hyundai Tiburon comes to mind).

boxfan · June 2003

The info that came out with the introduction of the 2004 at the NY auto show this year was that the 0-60 time would be in the "mid-10 second range", down from the mid-12 second range. In other words faster, along with bigger and better gas mileage.

I have a vague memory that the price was expected be a little higher than the current Prius.

nippononly · June 2003

current Prius is at about $20 1/2 and Toyota announced they would keep the new one "near to" this price. Considering the lousy car market right now, it is doubtful it will command MSRP for more than about five minutes, even though it is so substantially upgraded.

They have also said 0-60 times will be the same (approx) as 4-cyl Camry auto. And yes, it will be rated midsize according to EPA passenger volume standard.

dudleyr · June 2003

The midsize rating is misleading. Not that it won't be slightly bigger inside, but the passenger volume includes the trunk, and hatchbacks have much larger trunks than sedans (because they measure up to the roof behind the rear seats).

There are cases where an Idendical car has the hatch version rated in midsize while the sedan is a compact. Also true of station wagons.

daysailer · June 2003

substantially more useful space, that doesn't seem "misleading" to me.

mrvadeboncoeur · June 2003

http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =2004prius_prelim_s

current generation Prius:
passenger volume: 88.6 cu. ft.
cargo volume: 11.8 cu. ft.
total interior volume: 100.4 cu. ft.

2004 Prius preliminary specs:
passenger volume: 99 cu. ft.
cargo volume: 16 cu. ft.
total interior volume: 110 cu. ft.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml#sizeclasses

How are vehicle size classes defined?
The size class for cars is determined by measuring the interior volume as described below. ....
CARS
Sedans: ...
Compact - Between 100 and 109 cubic feet of passenger and luggage volume
Mid-Size - Between 110 and 119 cubic feet of passenger and luggage volume
... STATION WAGONS
Small - Less than 130 cubic feet of passenger and cargo volume

So, the size ratings is for the passenger and
cargo space combined. On the new Prius, both the
passenger and cargo space have become larger, just
bumping it past the size criteria for the Mid-Size.
(The current Prius is just over the size criteria
making it a Compact as opposed to a Subcompact...)

dudleyr · June 2003

Had no idea it was 99 cubic ft for the new Prius - where did you see that? That is just a shade smaller than a Camry 102, and larger than a Passat 96.

canc · June 2003

How long do the Prius batteries last?

mrvadeboncoeur · June 2003

Which battery?

The little 12v accessory battery will last only
as long as any other car's 12v battery. Provided
you don't leave a door open or headlights on
overnight (drain the battery), it should last
quite a while.

The ~273v hybrid traction battery? Here's what
Toyota says:
http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/prius/faq/prius_faq.html

9. Will the battery need to be replaced? Are the batteries recyclable?

Toyota engineers have designed the batteries to last the life of the vehicle and do not require any regularly scheduled replacement. The batteries are covered for 8 years or 100,000 miles under Prius' hybrid warranty. In the event that a battery needs to be removed for disposal, there are battery recycling facilities that are capable of recycling components of the battery.

I'll note that there is the known case of a 2001
Toyota Prius that went over 332,000km (over 200,000mi.)
and had no major repair problems (and no hybrid-related
problems), and did not need a new battery pack...
It was used as a taxi in Vancouver, BC. It would've
stayed on the road longer, had Toyota not bought
it back from the owner (even trade for a new 2003
Prius) to tear it apart and study it...
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/tw/thrifty.htm
http://compactcars.about.com/cs/bestcarawards/a/newprius_style.ht- m
unfortunately, the interview/article with the owner
isn't stored on the Vancouver Sun's site anymore...

canc · June 2003

Thanks for answering my question. That story about the Vancouver taxi Prius sounds really interesting--too bad it was pulled out of the website!

mrvadeboncoeur · June 2003

You can still read an archived version of the
article here:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Canada-Prius/message/562

The owner does occasionally post to the rarely-used list:
http://www.corolland.com/cgi-bin/prius.pl
under the name of Andrew Grant

mrvadeboncoeur · June 2003

oops, Canc, didn't notice that you're in Canada.
So I went to the Prius site on http://www.toyota.ca/ and
got this info from the FAQs:

What is the life expectancy of the Prius HV battery?
The Prius HV battery has been designed to last as long as the car and to not need replacing under normal circumstances. The batteries are covered for 96 months or 160,000 km under the Prius hybrid-related component warranty. If for some reason the battery does need to be replaced, it is advisable to have your local Toyota dealership perform the task as the battery contains high-voltage components.

For Australia:
http://prius.toyota.com.au/Prius/Information/Faqs/0,1324,5-9,00.h- tml#a1

[1] How long does the Prius HV battery last?
Toyota engineers have designed the batteries to last the life of the vehicle and to not require any regularly scheduled replacement. If an unusual circumstance occurs and the battery requires replacement, your local Toyota dealership can replace the entire battery pack or any of the 38 individual battery modules.

taddison · June 2003

A moonroof is important to me, and I've been thinking that if I got a 2004 Prius I could put an aftermarket moonroof in it, seeing as Toyota doesn't offer one.

I even checked out a local installer and saw several moonroofs in various stages of installation, and having seen this I would have no problem going with an aftermarket roof.

However, looking at photos of the 2004 Prius the roof has a very pronounced curve to it when viewed from the side, and when viewed from the front there is also a slight curve and some creases. These curves may make aftermarket moonroof installation impractical, or we may be limited to a tiny size.

I suppose I'll just have to wait until the car has been out for a few months and then go visit the installer or check for compatibility on the aftermarket mfrs. web sites...

steveb84 · June 2003

Prius customers who used the internet order process on the first generation (and didn't opt out of getting marketing materials) will be getting an email soon allowing them to place the first orders for the all-new 2004.

The email will also have pricing information.

boxfan · June 2003

How smooth is the Prius when the engine kicks in, after starting on battery power? I like the idea of a CVT that doesn't lurch when it shifts gears (my automatic 1990 Camry isn't very smooth when it shifts and I'm getting tired of it), but one review made it sound like you get the same thing when the Prius switches to the engine.

Also, when do the 2004s start getting made? (When will reviews start coming out?)

john1701a · June 2003

>> When the engine kicks in

When the engine kicks in, you can't feel it at all. In fact the only thing you can feel, which you have to pay really close attention to notice, is when the engine starts before contributing power. It compares to running over a pencil on the road, so subtle you really need to watch the Multi-Display to confirm that it really happened.

You can't feel the engine shutting off at all. But there's a clue about that happening too. It gets very, very quiet driving on nothing but electricity.

>> when do the 2004s start getting made

Toyota just started.

>> When will reviews start coming out?

They already have. A sad fact about reporter written reviews is that most don't even bother to drive the vehicle.

The only truly useful reviews are those that come from owners themselves. Don't expect those until the end of September. (I'll be one of them. I'm trading in my 2001 for a 2004.)

JOHN

little_pogi · June 2003

I own late model Camry and the most will agree it is one of the smoothest shifting transmission (excluding Lexus) around today. My sister owns a Prius which I have driven a number of times. I hate to admit it, the CVT is smoother than my Camry and I can't even feel that engine kick in from stealt mode. The only way I could tell is when the I hear the engine noise (it's so quite when riding on electric only) or the display monitor shows power coming from the engine. Boxfan, go to a dealer and test drive a Prius, put an earplug, and judge for yourself.

flagmichael · June 2003

But as long as we are on the subject, there often is a small to medium lurch when the engine kicks off if it does it just as you come to a stop. Normally the engine turns off before you reach a stop, but if the AC is on or if the engine has just warmed up it can happen.
On and off transitions with the AC on are also noticeable - sometimes intrusive - when sitting at a stop either in drive or in park. That should disappear in the 2004 with its electric AC.
The part that still surprises me is the total absence of jolt when shifting into drive or reverse. It's primarily my wife's car and when I drive it sometimes the engine shuts down just as I shift, and my brain tells me the engine died before I realize it's normal behavior. Stupid brain.

boxfan · June 2003

for the responses.

Another question: at what speed does the engine usually cut in? I think there's a hint that the new model will be able to drive on the battery alone at higher speeds because of the higher voltage battery, but I haven't seen anything specific. I like the idea of driving around in a silent car, although I guess tire noise is louder than the engine in a lot of cars these days.

paul34b · July 2003

It appears that the the articles I have read preface 2004 Toyota Prius as an electric-gas hybrid. Previous models the Prius was a gas-electric. Interesting.

coolguyky7 · July 2003

Toyota announced today that the pricing for the 2004 Prius will be the same as the 2003 model. Woo hoo! :-D Only $19,995!

http://www.toyota.com/about/news/product/2003/07/02-2-prius.html

"The Hybrid Synergy Drive is expected to increase fuel efficiency in the 2004 Prius by 15 percent with combined city/highway mpg rising from the high 40's to the mid-50's. This will enable Prius to have the best fuel efficiency rating of any midsize vehicle sold in America, delivering twice the combined mileage rating of its closest competitor. What's more, the midsize Prius will also boast a higher combined mileage rating than any compact sedan sold in America."

little_pogi · July 2003

Has any of those Prius pioneer received an e-mail or letter from Toyota regarding this early-buyer program? Perhaps you can share information what the program is all about. It's kinda encouraging to know that the base price remains the same. Would that mean pricing options/accessories on the 2003 if available for the '04 will also be the same? I know a lot of people out there are very excited about the new Prius as I am. I am predicting over 40K 2004 Prius sold(assuming supply meets demand) by the end of summer 2005.

Speaking the base pricing, it would be interesting to compare what the base '04 Prius would have that the base '03 Prius will not have. We know for a fact the '04 will come with a bigger electric motor, higher NiNH battery voltage, hybrid synergy drive, higher MPG, small to midsize. What else?

mrvadeboncoeur · July 2003

http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =20030702b

Base MSRP remains the same at $19995 + delivery (about $500)

emissions warranty and hybrid warranty are longer.
the free maintenance is removed (but roadside assistance is the same)

security alarm is removed from base vehicle. (was standard for the 2001-2003)
cassette is removed, replaced with a single CD player. (now 6 speakers, too)
cruise control is now standard.
60/40 folding rear seat standard.
tire pressure monitor standard.
electric AC on the 2004, too.

Fully loaded 2004 is $25000+, includes voice-command/Bluetooth
(included with the Navigation system), premium JBL 9-speaker system w/6-CD changer,
vehicle skid control, smart entry & start, foglamps,
HID lamps, rear wiper, side+curtain air bags, garage
door opener, anti-theft system...

pzev · July 2003

Well I must say the pricing of the car and the pricing of the option packages seems to be pretty good. I think though that they would have been better off sacrificing a couple of mpg's by making the Prius more normal instead of going for all out aerodynamics with the shape. The rear visibility looks terrible, that alone would keep me from buying the car. I'm sure it's better than most convertibles but otherwise it doesn't look too good. And of course the styling isn't going to appeal to everyone.

flagmichael · July 2003

I think the Prius will tend to be a niche product with more unique styling, but will introduce the Synergy system that Toyota has already said they intend to use in increasing numbers of their models. That sounds like a sound strategy, as there are already large markets for the Corolla and Camry (among others).
There has been some speculation as to whether Toyota intends to keep the Prius model very long - the name suggests maybe not. My guess and 5 bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks if you ask nicely.

pzev · July 2003

I'm sure they'll keep the Prius around for a good 4 years since they went to all the trouble making it, but it may very well be the last Prius we'll see here. A lot of rumors going around that the hybrid system will be put into the Camry and maybe some other Toyotas as well as rumors that Honda will put theirs in the Accord. Judging from the increase in technology and equipment and the price remaining the same on the Prius then it's just a matter of time before they put the hybrid system into mainstream cars.

coolguyky7 · July 2003

Wait for the Toyota Hybrid Synergy technology to make it into the Camry and Corolla. After that, the Prius' numbers may die down very quickly, and then it will be time for its departure, unless a complete hybrid design turns out to work much better than a car manipulated to be a hybrid (ie Corolla Hybrid, or Civic Hybrid).

Kirstie_H · July 2003

A journalist is looking for a person who is in the market to buy a hybrid vehicle. If you care to be interviewed, please respond with your daytime contact information to jfallon@edmunds.com by Friday, July 11.

yerth10 · July 2003

There is no way Prius is going to be dropped in the future.
There is always a hybrid design which is more powerful than
the existing 1 and they will put that technology in Prius
1st and then in Corolla / Camry. May be in 5 years time
Toyota may launch Plug-in hybrid version of Prius.

Plug-in hybrid will have the facility to be charged from
the household grid and they will run for 20 miles (30 km)
with that electricity and beyond that, gasolene/petrol
engine will kick in.

boxfan · July 2003

The prius is built for high mpg in a lot of ways, with the aerodynamic shape, low rolling-resistance tires, and CVT. I would think Toyota would keep it going as their show-off-the-technology car, even if they incorporate the hybrid system into other models.

Also, one problem with making the Civic into a hybrid has been that its real-life mileage hasn't been that much better than the standard Civic, so it doesn't seem worth the extra thousands for the better mileage. I think it makes sense to have a separate car as you hybrid model, then people don't have anything to compare it to.

mrgreenjeans · July 2003

Hello my fellow Prius Peoples!

First of all, I would like to say that I recently received an invitation in the mail from Toyota, as I am a "Prius Pioneer", to purchase the new 2004 Prius. I went on-line and followed the directions to view the new colors. To be honest, I wasn't that impressed with the choices they made for the 2004 model. What's more, most of the colors come standard with an ivory interior. With that as an interior, I'll be vacuuming every other day! What are they thinking?

In addition, I wish the options packages were a bit more versatile. Option package number 1, for example, was just the addition of a rear wiper. That seems odd to me.

Second of all, I spoke with a Toyota sales person this past Thursday and was told that Toyota's plan-at this stage of the game-is to use the new Synergy Hybrid system in all of their vehicles within 5 years or so and to eventually phase out the Prius altogether! Say it aint so! I am doubtful that this will come to fruition. Unless they redesign ALL of Toyota's vehicles like that of the Prius, I'm curious how they plan on getting the same or better gas mileage. Besides, now that this information has been leaked out (not just from me) isn't Toyota concerned that such a rumor will hurt the sales of the new Prius, if in the end they plan to phase them out?

Even so, I plan on test-driving the new Prius, but it will be hard to give up my current, 2001 model. I love that car so much!

P.S. I would like to take a survey of Prius owners. It has been my experience that I get better gas mileage on the highway than I do commuting around town. Perhaps this is because my commute to work is a mere 7 miles one way. This is most notable during winter. By the time I get to work, my engine has just warmed-up sufficiently to go "all electric". On a recent trip from Hartford, CT to Provincetown, MASS., a 200 mile trip, I averaged 54 mpg. Now, driving in and around Connecticut, I am currently getting about 50 mpg. If you have had a similar experience, let's share. Thanks! Perhaps they need to change their advertising?!

Gotta jet. Take care Prius People. KEEP IT GREEN!:)

paul34b · July 2003

Regards to gas mileage, my Prius (2001) does better on the highway as well. I commute 3 miles to work and, especially in the winter here in Maine, the engine barely gets the chance to warm up. My average in the winter in considerably lower (high 30s). I am not very impressed. Otherwise I still like the vehicle.

I also received a "Pioneer" letter. I have placed my order as I do like this new version. I was told that the beefed up "synergy system" and battery are supposed to fare better in the cold. I hope so.

pigface · July 2003

you should know better than to talk with a salesperson about future vehicle plans...

i can promise you in 9 out of 10 cases, you'll know more about an OEMs plans weeks if not months ahead of the dealer sales staff.

if you don't agree.. just listen to what they are saying.. "hybrid synergy drive in all toyota vehicles within 5 years.." that's ridiculous.
hybrid synergy drive wouldn't even be the right application for vehicles like land cruiser or tundra... trucks require a different type of hybrid powertrain... nevermind the fact that 5 years is a very short period of time in the life of a vehicle lineup.

my 2 cents

raychuang00 · July 2003

Personally, I think the 2004 model will be the last of the Toyota Prius models. This is because by 2008, we'll likely see the next-generation Toyota Echo and Corolla models offer the Synergy Hybrid Drive system as an option, especially now that Toyota has produced enough hybrid drive systems to very soon reduce the cost of production dramatically. Because hybrids will be available on both the Echo and Corolla, the Prius becomes a superfluous car line.

dbronzo · July 2003

I've seen the pricing for the new Prius, options etc, and was wondering if any of the present Prius owners who are buying new 2004's are getting any kind of deal off sticker? Does anyone think that discounts will be given from sticker? I'm interested in buying a 2004 and have been told $1000.00 over dealer cost. I understand there is only about $1200.00 between dealer cost and sticker. Any thoughts?

taddison · July 2003

Any comments from owners about performance in snow and ice?

Can you control wheel-spin at startup? Is it better or worse than a regular automatic for this?

Does the car have traction control (automatic brake or throttle modulation) or limited slip diff?

If you are stuck in snow with a wheel spinning, in a regular automatic car you can step on the brake a little while still accelerating in order to force some power to the non-spinning wheel. Can you do this in a Prius or does the computer automatically override the throttle position and remove power when you step on the brake?

How about the LRR tires, are they any good in snow (compared to "regular" tires, not to snow tires)?

Thanks.

jscheerhorn · July 2003

I am trying to find the web site that shows the 2004 exterior colors. On the Toyota web site they only show the 2003 colors. Does anyone know where I can find the colors for the 2004 Prius.

ed_scott0013 · July 2003

I haven't seen any colors besides that silver-ish one in all the photos. The current Prius is only available in 4 colors here in Canada (White, Silver, Blue, Green) but hopefully they'll expand this palette for 2004.

vl39 · July 2003

Go to John's site at www.john1701a.com for colors.

vsl3 · July 2003

After a 18 mo dealer service on my Prius with 13K miles, my mpg dropped from an average of 38-40mpg to 30mpg. I took it back and they told me that the system was operating within factory parameters. I also have a occasional slight vibration when I turn my steering wheel (noticed first on backing up and now sometimes forward.) They are calling the factory on that and I asked them to question them about the gas mileage. Does anyone have any ideas? I have driven on the freeway as well as in town. I usually drive with the a/c on but have had it on maximum due to higher temperatures the last few weeks. I bought the car for the good mileage so am not satisfied.

mrvadeboncoeur · July 2003

There is a "Limited Service Campaign" right now for
some affected Power Steering racks, late 2001-early 2002
Prius. Not a recall. (Unlike the first couple of shipments
of 2001 Prius that have a PS recall - the only Prius recall so far.)
Usual complaints is when starting the car when cold,
may have a steering shudder upon reversing. Will
often progressively get worse (violent shaking) and occur during low
forward speeds. Not always repeatable, so difficult
to show to repairman to get a fix.

As for the low MPG after a service:
* The regularly scheduled maintenances includes a tire rotation.
I've never had my tires reset properly after a service - either they lower my tire pressures (below even the Toyota specs on the door jamb) which'll give you lower MPG, or they didn't bother to reset the pressures after the rotation (so after rotation the pressures were incorrectly higher in the back, leading to handling issues).

* If they overfilled your oil level, or they gave you 10w30 instead of the proper 5w30 weight oil, that could lower your MPG.

* The most likely culprit is that you state that you're now using the AC MAX button.
The MAX button makes the AC compressor work full-time, instead of the cycling on/off as needed if you just used the AC button alone (no MAX). The AC compressor is run by the gas engine, so to have the compressor work the gas engine has to be running. If you choose the MAX button, your gas engine will always run, even if you're just idling or coasting or sitting at a red light or going downhill or... You never go into electric-only driving. So, with your engine always running to run the AC on MAX, you get lower MPG. Try not to use the MAX button, just the AC button, and set your thermostat to a less extreme temp (not all the way left!).

If you only do short trips (<10min, or a handful of miles),
then your normal mileage of about 40MPG sounds about right.

pickle005 · July 2003

has anyone ordered a prius yet? how much are you paying? with option that is?

looking to buy one myself, just trying to gauge what's the "right" price to pay.

thanks

vsl3 · July 2003

I will check out all your suggestions. Thanks

andreat · July 2003

I've got a new job that'll require me to get a new car after taking public transport for the past 4 years. I'm looking at the Civic hybrid as well, but have heard great things about the Prius, and the 2004 model sounds great. Problem is, I'm looking to buy in the next couple weeks, and can't wait 'til October. Are they available anywhere before then?

Alternately, I might look into leasing possibilities, or see if I can find a used 2002 Prius. Any advice?

dudleyr · July 2003

Buy a junker and drive it for a few months. Then trade it in on the Prius when they have one of those sales where they give you $xxxx on any car you use as a trade in.

paul34b · July 2003

As a "Pioneer" as I am told because I bought the first 2001 Prius via the internet, I received an offer to place my order with Toyota by July 20. Apparently this was a special offer for those folks who originally bought the first Prius. Anyway I did place my order and selected 1 of the three option packages. Mine is at $22,500. The base model will still be at $19,995 and the highest at $25k+ (includes the navigation system). My dealer says in ought to be in by September but Toyota says Oct - Dec. I am more apt to believe Toyota. As I live in Maine, I am sure we are last on the list as deliveries would begin in California. But I am selling my 2001 Pruis. Any takers?

pickle005 · July 2003

hey paul34b,

what are the three options packages? could u perhaps elaborate a little. my local dealer told me there is only the nav. upgrade. but on toyota website, they mentioned smart entry, and a few other things.

anyway, just want to know what the $25,500 package inlucded

Toyota Prius (First Generation)

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