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Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    no corolla ever had sludge issues. The only engines affected were 2.2L 4-cyls and 3.0L 6-cyls.

    This sludge thing is part of the reason people think Toyota's 7500-mile, and now Honda's new 10,000-mile, oil change interval is way too long, and go with 5000 or less instead.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • boilermanboilerman Member Posts: 35
    Toyota also claimed not to have ANY issues with sludge with Camry's and Sienna's until the publicity was so OVERWHELMING that they had indeed had MAJOR problems that they decided to "FIX" the problems as a "courtesy" to the millions involved. They still deny ANY responsibility for those 2 vehicles being designed poorly and blame the car owner instead... This company may for the most build very high quality cars, but their service and denial of problems with their vehicles leave a LOT to be desired...If the 5000 and 7500 mile oil changes cause sludge, why doesn't Toyota change that in their owners manual to a more conservative and lower oil change interval?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The 96 owners manual listed a 7500 mile oil change interval? I thought our 97 was the first that listed this.
    Interesting.

    ~alpha
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    I have actually heard of someone who had a sludgy Corolla here in the Toronto area, a 1998 model actually (same generation as my 2002) and he was told by the mechanic that he is not the first. Toyota would not help him since it was just out of warrantee, he bought second hand and did not have maintenance records.

    The sludging in the Corolla is extremely rare unlike the one affecting the larger engines as nippononly said. Sludging happens on other cars (non Toyotas) as well but like the Corolla examples, it is rare.

    Sandman, shame about your sludging problems. Toyota should really not tell people to change their oil at 7500 mile intervals because most people do not check their oil between oil changes.

    Many years ago GM (I think)came out with oil consumption guidelines and 1 quart of oil usage per 1000 miles is within the range of what is normal. Unfortunately most of these smaller engines only take 4-5 quarts of oil so you could potentially use up all your oil between changes and not know.

    My brother's Tercel had major oil consumption problems after 120,000 km and Toyota could never find the problem. They re-did the valve stems and seals etc with no change. The car did run well however and compression was always good but he spent a fortune trying to get this fixed without resolution. He now drives something else.

    Nippononly are you a Toyota techy? - could you shed some more light on this.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    without actually seeing the car that the oil leakage is around the rings. I have seen other tercels with the same problem.

    Lots of oil loss would usually not be caused by bad valve seals or stems - I am surprised they did this expensive work, unless there was another reason for it. Plus, you would know about bad seals because of smoking at start-up.

    Basically, repairing the piston rings is not cost-effective usually for tercels, most of which are not worth very much, which may be why I have seen a few with this problem. Until you are blowing a big smoke cloud whenever the engine gets hot, I would just keep driving a car like this and remember to keep the oil topped up.

    boilerman: "Millions of engines" (2 million or so, actually) WERE affected by the sludge TSB, but Toyota never repaired more than several hundred under this program. The problem was probably one of design (although I do not know why the manufacturers recommend such long oil change intervals), yet relatively few actual repairs were required. It got slightly overblown, mainly because Toyota let the first few owners with this problem stew while it waited to see if there was a systemic problem.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    What you said makes sense about the Tercel. My brother's car always started and ran well and even gas mileage was OK. No smoke either.

    Actually the few people I know who have had problems with Toyotas, have mostly had Tercels. My guess is that the cars are generally so reliable, some Toyota techs may not see many of these often enough to really understand and recognize common problems with certain vehicles, especially outside of high-volume metro areas.

    In your opinion/experience which has the better/more durable motor the Toyota Corolla, the Honda Civic or something else?
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,281
    Well, like I said I've never had a problem. The last vehicle I used synthetic in was my 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee, got it at 49k, flushed the engine and changed to amsoil. Went 12,500 miles, changed the filter, topped the oil off and went another 12,500 before draining the oil. The truck burned 1/2 qt of oil in 25k, was a really good truck too, I miss it. Darn repo man anyway.

    I plan on doing the same with my Corolla, although I'm seeing already its using oil, have to keep an eye on it. Of course Toyota's dipstick leaves a lot to be desired, guess I'm just used to american cars.

    Only problem I've had with my Corolla in the 2 weeks and 1300 miles I've had it (it now has 45,350 miles on it) is the clutch is weird. Maybe its just a Toyota thing or maybe its just this car, but really have to push the clutch in all the way to get it to shift after its been driven for a while. It doesn't like 3rd gear very much.

    Ah well, I'll take the quirks, love the 40 mpg!!
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Through the 80s and the early 90s, I would give the edge to corolla engines, which could take more abuse, although corolla and civic engines are both extremely durable.

    Since the late 90s, I think all engines are built to much tighter tolerances and therefore can stand less abuse in general, so that may have equalized the long-term reliability of this pair.

    One place there is more of a disparity is transmissions: corolla automatics are significantly more durable long-term than Civics' - some of the Honda ones fail in less than 100K miles (which I call inexcusable barring severe abuse). I think in general Honda has trouble building a really good auto trans, as the recent enormous auto trans recall (Accord, TL, Odyssey, 1.3 million in all I believe) may also indicate.

    However, for long-term durability in the manual trans, I would go the other way: Honda builds superb manual transmissions that last forever.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    I don't think Honda have issued a recall for 1.3 million auto transmissions. What they did do is offer extended warranty coverage on the transmission to owners of 1.3 million vehicles (or whatever the figure was).
  • gregoriusmgregoriusm Member Posts: 61
    Thanks to everyone for all of their comments.

    I have narrowed down my search to the 2004 Corolla LE, but am wondering weather to go with the extra "B" package up here in Canada, which has the following options: Front side airbags, leather seats, moonroof, leather wrapped steering wheel, chrome inner door handles, theft deterrent system, and fog lamps.

    I have never had leather seats and am wondering if anyone out there has a 2003 with leather seats and what they think of the seats, leather quality, etc.

    Also, the summers can be extremely hot and the winters very cold up here. What should I know about leather? Stick to the seats in summer while wearing shorts? Cracking in the winter when its -40? More comfortable or less comfortable for long drives than cloth?

    Any insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. - Greg
  • gregoriusmgregoriusm Member Posts: 61
    As mentioned above, I will no doubt be buying a 2004 Corolla LE.

    I have never had a moon roof. I've driven the Corolla with a moon roof, and this is the first small car I've had where I've still had enough head room with a moon roof installed.

    Do I have to worry about any of the following:

    1) more chance of rust due to the roof being cut to allow for the moon roof

    2) water leakage problems

    3) general costly maintenance problems over the 10 years I hope to own the car

    4) any other problems that you know of.

    Also, could you please tell me why you like or dislike your Corolla moonroof (or any moonroof in general).

    Thanks a lot! - Greg
  • LuzerLuzer Member Posts: 119
    Leather- Have it on another Toyota, don't care either way. I rather spend the extra money for a Leather sofa for my living room.

    Moon roof -
    I believe the antenna may cause a humming sound that you can hear through the moonroof, unless it's the roofrack I got on my Vibe.

    I use mine on nice days, not too hot. Usually between 55 and 75 deg C - three weeks in the Spring, and three weeks in the fall. I got the moonroof on the Vibe because they offered a discount, otherwise, I would have not gotten it. Have one on my older car - nice, but doesn't matter much to me.

    I'm just a simple guy living in complicated times.
  • LuzerLuzer Member Posts: 119
    1) more chance of rust due to the roof being cut to allow for the moon roof

    Factory Roof's are stamped and should not be a concern as they prime the whole roof.

    2) water leakage problems

    None so far on my 99 Van, but have to think about the rubber weather-stripping.

    3) general costly maintenance problems over the 10 years I hope to own the car

    Make sure it doesn't leak once you get it due to water routing problems.
    Take care of the weather-stripping and clean/lube the hinges once in a while (every two years for me)...

    4) any other problems that you know of.
  • onlyimportsonlyimports Member Posts: 29
    I took my delivery of my 03 LE (base model)yesterday. You make a good choice of choosing this car. It's the best after testing most cars in the same catagory in the past weeks. My other car has sunroof so I don't need it for this one. As for leather, I opt it out for both cars because it cracked and worn out after time. The side airbags and the other features are quite good. Either way i think it is a good buy. The corolla has a european feel to it.
  • m3fanm3fan Member Posts: 30
    I drive a 2003 Corolla CE and I'm 6'3". I do find the driving position a bit uncomfortable for long trips. I don't mind it in my daily commute. The thing I notice when I get uncomfortable is that I can't hold my foot up on the gas without feeling it in my right leg.

    Now, the sulfur/rotten egg smell is still there when the engine is cold. I've tried Esso and Shell (no Sunoco here) and noticed less smell with Shell. The dealer couldn't find anything during the first service, but suggested that the cat needs about 20 minutes of driving to warm up and then there's no smell.

    Besides those quirks, my Corolla has been a great car for its 9500kms. Got it in November.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    With the '03 Corolla I drove recently, there was still a strong sulfurous smell after driving at highway speeds for over 20 minutes. Hope you have better luck with your car.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    it was a big recall - Honda had a couple of thousand affected vehicles, if memory serves...some had been through two or three transmissions.

    As to moonroofs, in ten years you should not need to attend too much to the weather-stripping, but much older than that and it does occasionally become an issue. It is not super-expensaive to have redone. The only other problem is if the drains built into the roof clog...then you will see dripping inside and you will have to clear them or have someone else do so. I have never experienced rust issues with the factory roofs in Toyotas. The only exception to that is the old sunroofs (when they were metal, not glass), sometimes the leading edge of the actual sunroof would begin to rust sometimes. Now that they have gone with glass moonroofs for so many years, that should not be a problem any more.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    Not to make a big thing of it but you are incorrect. See this link Honda did not recall 1.2 million vehicles, they issued extended warranties covering the transmissions of the potentially affected vehicles.
  • gregoriusmgregoriusm Member Posts: 61
    Did you consider the Matrix or Vibe when you were looking at the Corolla?

    Did anyone here consider those two cars when looking at the Corolla?

    I'm rethinking my decision and looking closely at the Matrix or Vibe, since I'd originally been considering the 2004 Sienna, and the Matrix/Vibe might just be what I would like since I can't afford the Sienna.

    Any thoughts will be appreciated! Thanks.

    ... Greg

    P.S. Thanks to the others on the info on the moonroofs and leather.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    with the Matrix/Vibe is that if you want an automatic, you are going to sacrifice good acceleration. The Corolla, being much lighter, does well-provides peppy performance and excellent fuel economy-with the 1.8L 130hp engine. The Matrix/Vibe suffer to a significant degree on both counts. If you can row yourself, thats a different story.

    ~alpha
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    thanks for the clarification! I read in one of the car mags at the time that this was a recall, but in researching it now, I see that it was a TSB, as you said.

    They did have to replace a couple of thousand of them though.

    alpha is right above: corolla's acceleration is noticeably faster than Matrix's.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    I looked at both. Matrix does indeed suffer as far as acceleration goes especially on the highway, but worse than that it makes a noise about it too. Space is good inside as long as you don't have to sit in the back, in particular behind the front passenger where the hard back of the front passenger seat does serious damage to your shins. Really disliked the instrumentation and the chrome rings around the instruments, obviously a personal issue. For the 2003 model year the Matrix XR did not have ABS even as an option in Canada which was a big thing for me too.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    having shopped a bit before buying, I know that Matrix has significantly more passenger space in the rear seat, including foot space, than any other hatch or wagon in its price range. The seat bottoms are high, and nothing obstructs the under-seat space, so rear passengers can slide their feet all the way under those front seats. The back seat is bigger and more comfortable too.

    Having driven both quite a bit, I do not think the Matrix is noticeably noisier than corolla during high-rev acceleration, but both ARE noisy during those moments. Matrix is noticeably slower at most speeds.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    I have a small family and would buy a Corolla wagon in a minute if they built one. The Matrix is just trying too hard to appeal to the young crowd, although most people who I see in them are in their forties or fifties (I am in my thirties). I love the understated elegance of the Corolla and would appreciate it in a wagon. Sorry the Matrix interior is just too funky IMHO, although the outside in basic form (sans ground effects) is not too bad.

    BTW does the Matrix/Vibe have the sulphur smell problem as well?

    Has anyone who has had the sulphur smell in the Corolla/Matrix/Vibe been able to get rid of it totally by switching gas?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The Corolla placed fifth of eight in edmunds comparo. I beg to differ. I agree much more with Car and Driver, November 2002. (ranking: 3rd of 11).

    ~alpha
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It's funny how reviewers can rave on about a car, then award it fifth place. It's almost like they deducted points because of the faux wood trim. Maybe they placed a premium on driver comfort, which was a knock on the Corolla but not the cars above it.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    A look at the scoring tells it all.

    A whopping 30% of the overall score is based on Price - "a simple calculation" based on the vehicle with the lowest sticker. Edmunds is doing us a real service by looking at stickers and telling us there are difference. For goodness' sake, you at least think they use THIER OWN TOOL- True Cost to Own, especially in this vehicle class! Bottom rung auto journalism. No seriously, any Tom, Dick, or Harry could come in off the street and write down a sticker price.

    I have a Sentra 2.5LE- it was absolutely the best car FOR ME. NO WAY THOUGH would I pick it over a Corolla if it were my parents, relatives, or female friends. These are economy cars, not sports cars, and should be evaluated as such. Even notoriously hot rodders like Car and Driver can see the Corollas values- its not pretending to be anything it isnt.

    ~alpha
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I can't believe the Sentra was rated over the Corolla. I've recently driven both and the Corolla is so much nicer a car (except for engine power) it's not even close. The Sentra should be ranked low if only because it doesn't have a usable rear seat and all the other tested cars do--usually a big deal for 4-door sedan.
  • observationobservation Member Posts: 5
    I just bought my second Toyota, a 2003 corolla LE. after having driven the new car for about 300 miles, I couldn't help but laugh as I read the recent Edmunds' review of the small sedans. mine is a manual LE with cruise, all weather and preferred package for $14300+tax. when I picked up my car, I was more than impressed with the interior materials, assembly and spaciousness. the car oozes quality construction from the closing of the doors, sound of the switch gears, superb tactile quality of the materials (with the exception of the seat fabric), lack of flexure in chassis over bumps and potholes and air-tight, muted (surprisingly quiet at highway speeds) cabin. it is amazing how much deep-down goodness and craftsmanship you can get in a $14000 car. the engine is responsive and vibration free (hard to tell if the engine is on at stop lights) and I have great deal more control over the engine with the 5-speed manual.
    so I read the Edmunds' review with fascination. certainly, corolla's clutch is more deliberate than civic's or Mazda's but is smooth and progressive; the shifter on a corolla, too, is more deliberate and damped but is still very accurate; the steering is vague but does not kick back or feels sloppy. I find my corolla quite entertaining in a small car way when I want to. other times when I would rather think about other things or not think at all, the corolla becomes a perfect, silent convenience that draws absolutely no attention to itself. so for Edmunds' to award a civic 58 (out of 100) more points over a corolla seems rather out of whack. I couldn't even find scores for ride, noise and vibration anywhere within the evaluation criteria. even the car and driver magazine rated a corolla better than a civic.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    I haven't read it. The only review that matters to me is the one I performed before I bought a Corolla. Interesting thing happened the other day, my wife thinks I am a "Toyota nut" and was less than happy that I insisted on buying a Corolla to replace our Corolla despite the availability of cheaper alternatives. Well, she had to drive one of the alternatives and when she got back it was a different story. Now she appreciates the difference and the fact that my TCO calculations (fitted to our particular circumstances rather than Edmunds average calculations) show that it is cheaper to own than the car she drove is just icing on the cake.
  • jazd2jazd2 Member Posts: 4
    Has anyone noticed that all Toyota cars seem to have the ugliest, most unattractive and hideous exhaust system of any car manufacturer. Starting from the muffler and moving forward, the pipe hangs down and bends at a 45 degree angle and then continues on. What is up with that atrocious design? Is anyone worried you are going to hang your car up on something? Can anyone explain why they do this? Everytime i am behind a Toyota, my eyes are drawn to this most unfortunate detail. It is easily visible when you see a Toyota driving down the road. What was even more unbelieveable was I saw a brand new Lexus the other day and I was astounded to see that it had the same unsightly exhaust. Yuck!!!! and shame on Toyota for blemishing their vehicles in such an obscene way. No other car manufacturer makes that design. Every time i point this out to someone, they are never the same and are also revolted by the design. I for one will never consider buying a Toyota until this is fixed!!!
    Comments?
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    I for one will never consider buying a Toyota until this is fixed!!!

    You're joking right? No, I guess not since you have posted the same comment in a number of Toyota discussions.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I'm just jealous that you have the time and energy to care about such a minute detail. At least the stuff I rant and rave about has to do with safety (side airbags, ABS, etc.).

    ~alpha
  • simpaticasimpatica Member Posts: 4
    After weeks of researching several competing vehicles I have decided that the Corolla is by far the best vehicle for me. I just can't imagine allowing a tail pipe to change my opinion. But if that is what is most important to you then I guess I can understand.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    "Exhaust system design" was 25% of the score, wasn't it?

    ;-)
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    I just read this, too. My thoughts:

    These really are 'apples and oranges' cars they picked for the comparison. I mean, they have an Elantra with NO options compared to fully loaded Proteges, Civics and Corollas. Any wonder they rave about the price of the Elantra? Then they pick the Sentra with the 165-hp engine and marvel over its acceleration. Well, duh. Why didn't they get a GXE instead? There are other examples, but you get the idea. I know it's next to impossible to pick very similar cars, but this is a bit over the top.

    I think comparison tests should have a more strict set of parameters, e.g., all cars must have automatic transmission, power this and that and the base engine, OR all cars must have an MSRP between $16-17k, OR if you put XYZ in these cars, this is what you end up with. Something, anything, to 'level the playing field'.

    As an aside, it seems like they'd have to go out of their way to find a Corolla that costs almost $18k, most I see are $15-17k. Personally, I think the best value is to get an LE with a stick and almost no options.
  • simpaticasimpatica Member Posts: 4
    I agree. In fact I came to that same conclusion: the best value is an LE with a stick (Unless, of course, you will be sitting in trafic a lot; I may need to get an Automatic for my wife’s sake) and very few options like ABS. Perhaps take others’ advise by adding the leather package with cruise control.

    But why rely on other people’s comparisons? Several comparison tools are available to anybody. I started by comparing the Saturn Ion to comporable sedans: reviewing side-by-side specs and reading reviews written by car owners and critics. This is how I found the Corolla. It’s closest comparison seems to be the Civic (but that’s a different discussion board).

    The point is, we are all equiped with the tools to become informed ourselves, so we don’t need to rely on others to be informed for us. Afterall, some people place higher value on fuel economy, some on safety, and others place the greatest importance on the cosmetics of a tail pipe. Few critics are going to value the same thing you do. Everybody values something different and everybody has different needs; that’s why there are so many different vehicles. The last thing that I want is for everybody else to be driving a Corolla too!
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    advertised all corolla LE automatics on the lot (12 total) at $14,8 last weekend. I think it is the S that is bringing in the highest prices for them.

    I have noticed that tailpipe thing on many Toyotas, but cannot imagine even remotely putting as much emphasis on it as the poster above.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    If the tailpipe hindered the car, Toyota wouldn't have used that design. We shouldn't always try to do the job of the engineers whose jobs are to perfect these designs before they are mass produced.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Are those the same engineers who worked on the ergonomics of the Corolla's driving position and its emissions control system? If so, I'd say they don't always perfect their designs before they are mass-produced. But then nobody's perfect--even Toyota.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    I would doubt you have the same experts working on the interior as you do the actual mechanics of the car.
  • terceltom1terceltom1 Member Posts: 150
    Sorry Coolguy, but the exhaust on the Corolla LE is far from "perfect". It is the absolute lowest point on the car and if your going to bottom out this where its going to happen. I don't need to be an engineer to look under my car to see this.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Since the tailpipes began hanging, we leased a 97 Camry for 36,000 miles, a 2000 Camry for 39,000 miles, and have purchased a 2002 Camry, which now has a whopping 29K on it. NEVER once in 104,000 miles of driving has the exhaust pipe EVER been an issue.

    ~alpha
  • gcboyd1gcboyd1 Member Posts: 11
    yeah, I read it, and yeah, I'm disappointed. I like and trust Edmunds, and as much as I hate to admit it, they're pretty close to being right (Sentra and Civic rankings excluded - what's that about?). The Protoge is more fun, and the Hyundai is a better value. For me, I spend all my time staring at the dashboard, so it better be nice, and the Corolla's is, without a doubt, the classiest. And I need good mileage (it's our only car), reliability, and a smooth ride - our urban commute includes lots of crappy roads, so that's what brought the 'rolla to the top of my list. That being said, the driving position is torturous. Enough so that I'll be looking at the new Scion xB when it comes out - if all else holds, and the driving position is decent, I'll take it. But if the seats are anything like the 'rollas, forget it - I'll be looking at Mazdas and Hondas.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I dont agree with Edmunds, and I dont really trust their so called "expertise", their ratings system is pretty flawed if you look at it closely, but I will certainly concede that the Corollas driving position is awkward- Toyota would have a grand slam on their hands (instead of a home run) if they changed two things about this car- 1) give it the 2.0L in the RAV and 2) offer tilt/telescopic steering wheel and multiadjustable front seats.

    ~alpha
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Can anyone tell me if the '03 Corolla (Canadian version) comes standard with heated outside mirrors and engine immobilizer?
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    The hanging tailpipe IS unsightly. I don't think you can damage it even if the car bottoms out on a regular road because the part where it hangs the lowest is located right between the rear wheels. HOWEVER, it will be more susceptible to damage if you, say, straddle something sufficiently big, or, if you drop one rear wheel into, say, a large pothole. This one flaw by itself would probably not make or break my buying decision on a Toyota, but at the same time, I don't think it should be ignored completely.
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    Neither of the features are standard on the Corolla but I believe come with the LE package in Canada, which is the deluxe package starting at around C$20K. The base CE model is quite sparse. We have the CE plus which is the mid grade package but does not come come with the two things you are asking about.

    Those two features are also available on the LX equipped Civic which is nearly the same price. In fact all of Honda Canadian vehicles have immobilizers.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I studied the brochure and their website but there is no mention of either item on any of the trim level. The immobilizer is the item that I would be reluctant to go without. You can buy the Toyota VIP security system as a dealer add-on. I suspect the system may come with engine cut-off function, but from what I know, that does not offer the same fail-safe protection as an immobilizer.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    I can't believe it. An C$18K car that comes without an immobiliser and heated mirrors. No wonder Toyota cannot sell them.
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