Audi A6

mmcbride1 · August 2001

I agree with what Mark said. The BMW is marginally sportier, but it costs much more. The A4 1.8T Q comes out $4-6k cheaper than the 325i/325xi. I got my 2001 A4 for $28k. It is loaded except for a couple of options (I've got Quattro, Bose stereo, moonroof, Homelink, auto dimming computers, trip computer, xenons, etc.). A comparable BMW would have been in the $32-34k range.

I wanted to get the 325i off the bat. But once I drove the Audi and looked at what you get for your money, the A4 was the choice, hands down.

markcincinnati · August 2001

Well said, and much shorter, too mmcbride1. The real comparison was the 330 AWD and the S4 -- money wise there is a big S4 advantage. The S4 is much more fun to drive, too -- IMHO.

mmcbride1 · August 2001

I wouldn't even let myself drive either the 330 or the S4. I knew I wouldn't like the 1.8T/325i near as much if I did

But I'm hoping there's going to be a 2004 S4 Avant...

rbirns1 · August 2001

Strangest thing happened to my 2000 A6 last night. My side view mirrors were stolen. Not the housing, just the glass part. It was a clean job, no damage. Looks like they just popped the glass out and unplugged it from the wire (they're heated, I guess that's what the wire is for).

Anyone have any idea how expensive these things are? Can I get them by mail and install myself or is this a dealer job? Please help!

jji7363 · August 2001

The new 2002 Passat GLX with 4motion seems like a cross between an A4 and an A6. Especially now that VW is finally going to offer a 4 yr/50K warranty.

Folks on this board know a whole lot more about the differences between VWs and Audis than I. If they are that similar, won't this really cannibalize Audi sales? MSRP of a fully loaded Passat GLX w/ Quattro is $32,125.

markcincinnati · August 2001

Jji7363: I thought the same thing -- but in reality it doesn't work out that way. While most Audi buyers have a certain degree of fondness and/or respect for VW's, most people do not consider them interchangable products.

My friend who, until recently, owned both a dual (Audi and Porsche) dealership and a stand alone (VW) dealership, that were not particularly close to each other (20 minutes apart) claimed that while, behind the scenes, the VW and Audi brands are similar and after all are even part of the same enterprise -- that they are very differently perceived in the marketplace.

My friend told me that VW and Audi buyers were more different than alike. Now, I do not know all of the demographics, but perhaps it is like Lexus and Toyota or Acura and Honda or Infinit and -- well you get the picture. A lot of ES300's are sold to people who wouldn't buy a Camry (with no offense to any buyer's preference intended). A lot of A4's are sold to people who would not buy a Passat.

My friend and I took the Passat V6 w/4Motion GLX test drive versus the Audi 1.8T test drive. For "whatever" reason the Passat --which at the time following the test drive he "respected"--didn't make the short list. My thought was he would have liked it more if it had had a stick shift and the option of a sport suspension -- MY thought, he never said this.

Right or wrong Audi is [perceived to be and IS] upscale and not just because it costs more. Again, I know people who would not have a Toyota Camry or Avalon (no matter how much they were optioned out), instead they go for the Lexus.

I also do not know if VW owners are Audi owners "in training." This was Sloan's theory right? Give them a Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick and Cadillac and as they age and/or become more affluent, you have a car for every circumstance. Beats me how many people buy Golfs then Jettas, then Passats then A4's culminating in A8's (I'm sure there are some, but I have no studies to support this notion).

So far, I have been extremely loyal to Audi, and as my ability to afford more expensive cars has (like the economy) ebbed and flowed, Audi has always had a product for me. At this stage of my life an A8 (which I had in 1996 - 1998) seems "too old" for me (I just turned 50). My sights are set on an S6 (IF IT HAS A STICK SHIFT) or the rumored V8 S4 (ditto the stick shift comment). There are no VW's that interest me, although I do believe they are fine cars. The new V8 Passat looks like a killer, but not an Audi killer.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

bertram60 · August 2001

Perhaps I'm in the small group Mark was commenting on as I have gone from '78 Diesel Rabbit to '87 Golf GTI 16V, to '91 Jetta GLI 16V, '96 then '97 Maxima SE's, to '98 A6 2.8, '99 Boxster, and now '00 A8 4.2 (as well as '00 ML430). The VW mark is trying to become more up scale, but the differences between the Audi/VW brands are still rather large. Audi offers more content and a much broader size range (at least in the US since the A3 is not marketed here). The upcoming W8 Passat may bring them closer, but they will still have the reputation and recognition that was brought to the in the late 70's and 80's with the Golf/Rabbit. It is interesting to read that they are trying to become the new Mercedes, and it will be more interesting to see what they do with the Audi brand as this progresses. My $.02.

jim3039 · August 2001

I bought my A6 back in January with the multi-function steering wheel based on the understanding that Audi was working on a digital phone kit. Does anyone know if dealers are now installing digital phone systems?

P.S. Still completely thrilled with my decision to buy the A6!

markcincinnati · August 2001

No info re DEALERS, but over on AudiWorld.com there are several "threads" that discuss this very topic.

I mentioned, some time ago, that I think the FACTORY set up, at this moment, is a really great one and if you have a phone with call forwarding on it, you can have the digital phone forwarded to you car (when you are driving) and get the benefits of the Audi phone (controls on the steering wheel, etc.). And, if you have "air share" with another phone (your digital one e.g.), you can have different numbers all sharing the same number of "package" minutes, so your only "start up cost" is a motorola analog phone, which your Audi is already pre-wired to accommodate. You will always have the same inbound number when in the car and when out of the car. It is a slick solution, IMHO.

Plus you don't have to dink around with a "cluge" -- the soon to be here Audi's apparently have a digital option (an interface perhaps) -- but the 2001 A6 factory system is elegant and easy to use -- and the clarity blows away anything I have ever heard from digital (and it is a full 3 watts, so the range is great, too.)

And, of course you could always call your dealer and see if he/she has ever installed a digital phone in a 2000 or 2001 A6.

jim3039 · August 2001

Appreciate the advice. Any idea if the motorola analog phone can go mobile as well?

gooddesign · August 2001

Mark made an interesting comment about graduating to bigger cars. I thought about my experiences and noticed an alarming trend.

I went from a:

'69 VW Beetle to an
'80 VW Vanagon (1st yr. body style) to a
'85 VW GTi (1st yr. body style) to a
'91 VW Jetta "Carat" (1st yr. also - I think...)

(I took a break from VW here because I hated the Jetta Carat so much. Had several mid-line Japanese cars that I won't name here. Eventually I moved to a...)

'98 Audi A6 (1st yr. body style) which is my current baby. I skipped the A4.

The alarming trend is that I keep buying the FIRST MODEL YEAR for each car. Maybe that's why my first paycheck of the month always goes to the service manager!

I wish I had seen this coming... I need to start saving for the next generation A8!

cdnpinhead · August 2001

While I'm not planning to buy an Audi anytime soon, I'm beginning to gather the kind of data I need to buy a $40K car.

Imagine my surprise at learning that the totally indifferent Audi dealer I visited a week or so ago in Scottsdale was the only one in Maricopa County (that's metropolitan Phoenix for those of you who may not know). When I moved the radius from my zip code out to 200 miles, I got two (count 'em) dealers. The other one was in Tucson. If I upped the radius to 500 miles, I got a reasonable number, and since I travel on business a lot in SoCal, I'll be OK.

Still seems odd that the metro Phoenix area only has one dealer. Want to guess how pressed he feels to "make a deal?"

rodneybarrett · August 2001

Thanks for the comments about the tires. I will be getting the Yokohama AVSdb's for sure.

Now, I need more information about this "plus 0" thing. I think I understand it. For example, a 205/55r16 would be plus 0'ed to 225/50r16 , right?

Now what advantages or disadvantages are there in doing this. I mean, if it is a win-win situation, why don't they just put these tires on the cars to start with.

Again, my car is a '98 A6 quattro with the factory 16inch wheels. The tires currently on the car are 205/55/r16.

Feedback would be much appreciated.

I will be ordering from the tirerack within the next day or so and I want to make sure I get the right ones.

BTW, I found a place that has the Hunter GPS9700 balancer that I will be using.

markcincinnati · August 2001

Plus zero tire sizing increases the width of the contact patch of the tire (and you also shorten the sidewall) -- roadholding, i.e., lateral performance will improve. Tirerack says: "By using a tire with a shorter sidewall, you gain quickness in steering response and better lateral stability."

The performance of the car will improve also because the width of the plus tire increases. With a plus zero fitment there are no new wheel requirements and assuming you "choose the right size" no change in engine management computer or speedometer will occur.

The size I suggested 225 x 50 x 16 is about one inch wider and the sidewall is about 10% shorter (than the OEM tires). With the Yok AVS db you should have improved performance on dry, wet and snowy pavement -- and the car will be much quieter. The Yok is ULTRA HIGH PERFORMANCE, all season, which is -- for an all season tire -- about the best you can do (it is a great tire, but it IS a compromise). With quattro and the AVS db's you MAY not need winter tires depending on where you live/drive. I live in Cinccinnati and the UHP AS tires make a lot of sense, especially on a quattro.

The AVS db seem to be a great value too -- my 2001 A6 4.2 required 255 x 40 x 17's (which was NOT a plus zero size) and the tires were $144 each from tirerack.com.

dianeb773 · August 2001

I just love this car. I know it's not the most powerful but, it's a great car for me. I can't believe how fast I'm going sometimes when I'll look at the speedometer and whoops, have to slow down. This car is so comfortable and the only irritating thing in the past five weeks of ownership is the window fogging on the outside on a hot/humid day. Other than that, I'm sure another Audi is in my future when my lease is up. I just had to share my enthusiasm.

bruno103 · August 2001

dianeb,

I am glad you have spoken up regarding your satisfaction with a A6 2.8Q. I sometimes feel overshadowed bythe big spenders on 2.7T and 4.2's. I have a 99 2.8Q. I have had no problems other than the gas tank sensor. Although the acceleration is not that great, it does really cruise on the highway. One going, it is a very fast car. Furthermore, I love the luxury I have purchased for the dollar. I think that at this point, for my purposes, I still would have not bought a 2.7T or 4.2.

Bruno

chicago27t1 · August 2001

After leasing a 5-speed 1998 A4 2.8Q for three years, I now have a 2001 A6 2.7t. I would have loved, and I mean loved, an S4, but my kids are bigger, I need a little more room, didn't want to pay top dollar for the 2002 A4s, and loved the 2.7t's acceleration. You know how it goes.

Anyway, while I love my new car, I find that the handling is not as crisp as what I had with my previous vehicle. It's a little cushier than I would like, and I get a bit more body roll than I had with my A4. I'm kind of kicking myself for not getting the Sport package (my reasoning was that I didn't want to deal with performance tires in Chicago winters), but that's water under the bridge.

I've read a number of posting that talk about adding or improving the stock rear sway bar or changing the springs.

I have a few questions:
1) Will these changes give me a significantly crisper ride?
2) What is a sway bar? Where does it go? How much should I expect to pay if I have this done by my Audi dealer as opposed to a european import mechanic? Ditto for the springs.
3) Should I have both done (bar and springs) or just one or the other?
4) Any other suggestions?

I'll be hitting my 1000 mile mark tomorrow. I think I'll celebrate by dusting another 540, which should bring my count to an even dozen. I only blow them off the line. I've kept my rpms under 4200 and generally stay within 10 mph of the speed limit.

srusmantijo · August 2001

Chicago27T1,

Thanks for the info on leasing. I went to the local dealer equipped with my spreadsheet and print out from your posting, along with some others.

I bought it last Saturday, although not as low as your calculation. I'm comfortable with the payment, and enjoy the car. So far, everything is great. Engine is really smooth, acceleration is decent, interior is just crisp. I really enjoy it.

I'll keep you posted.

markcincinnati · August 2001

From the Audi Web site - www.audiusa.com -- I made a similar modification on a 1997 A8 that I owned (and also switched tires, which for Chicago would mean either a summer and a winter tire/wheel combo -- or, my current fave Yokohama AVS db's which are Ultra High Perf All seasons). I loved the improvements and found nothing to complain about re ride. I later added front and rear sway bar upgrades which I purchased from Joe Hoppen Motorsports. You may find these Eibach's are "just what the Dr. ordered." Hope this helps.

Sport Suspension
Springs by Eibach®

Specially tuned for Audi by
legendary suspension
manufacturer Eibach®.
Audi Sport Springs create
a sportier profile by
lowering your Audi A6's
ride height about 1.5
inches (30 mm). Chassis
responsiveness is also
increased.

Item: 4B4071677DSP
Fits Models: A6 2.8 Sedan (quattro) 98>, A6 2.7T Sedan (quattro) 00>
Price: US$325.00

Visit Your Local Dealer To Purchase This Item

blehrlich · August 2001

I really can't decide....the dealers explainations of the benefits of THEIR all wheel drive systems is making my head spin. Please help.
Thanks

markcincinnati · August 2001

I am biased, but the dealers are more so. You need some "more or less" independent information.

There are factual (technical) differences between the systems, some then take those facts and make them into values (opinions based on point of view+facts). BMW,e.g., says "rear wheel drive is king" for years and years and years -- then needed to change their tune with the intro of their SUV and their "wet tongue, frozen pole" campaign for their AWD 3 series (and their rumoured roll out of AWD across the entire line). BMW says, for example, that a "rear biased" AWD system is better than the compeition (Audi perhaps?). I have read that a "dynamic" AWD system that has virtually NO bias is better. I am not an engineer of automotive drive systems, nor are my degrees in physics. I buy into the idea that a rearward bias is, however, NOT necessarily better, however.

Do a little digging and see if this (the facts, or an interpretation of them) has been applied to Audi's, Volvo's, Merc's (and others) implementation of AWD -- then as they say "pay your money and make your choice" (or words to that effect.)

I'm sticking with quattro -- but the ES430 is, no doubt about it, a very nice ride (but the 4.2 is, IMHO more visceral).

blehrlich · August 2001

Thanks for the input, I'm going to check out the 4.2 now (the dealer only has 15 of them).

chicago27t1 · August 2001

What is a sway bar?

How much for a rear sway bar upgrade

mmcbride1 · August 2001

Not to mention C&D just did a comparo. The A6 came out ahead of the E430, but that's not what was striking about the comparo. The A6 4.2 was $53,000 MSRP fully loaded. The E430 was over $60k, and that's without 4Matic. Add at least a couple of thousand for 4Matic, and the E will cost well over $10k more than the A6 4.2. That may not matter to you, but it would to me.

And I would rather have the A6 even if price was equal.

markcincinnati · August 2001

Anti-sway bars are engineered to reduce "body roll." They keep your vehicle flatter in the turns by transferring the pressure exerted on the outside wheels and applying opposite pressure on the inside wheels. In this way weight is more evenly applied to all four wheels, helping the vehicle stay more level with the road. Your car will corner "flatter" -- sometimes this is discussed using the term "body lean" (as in how the car leans into the curves.)

Your Audi already has anti-sway bars (front and rear). On the standard suspension set up they are adequate, but some would argue that they are of insufficient diameter. A larger diameter bar will give you more resistance to body lean. Upgrading a rear bar will make an even greater improvement than just the front. By keeping the vehicle more level in a turn you will have significantly more control, giving you better handling. A good combination of front and rear bars can also keep your car more stable on the open road. This plus your new springs will make your A6 feel like it is on rails.

Unlike springs, which can be noticed, sway bar upgrades will be virtually undetectable except for the imrovements noted above. Oh and they are inexpensive, too (as I recall, new front and rear anti-sway bars for my 1997 A8 were a couple hundred bucks -- I bought the S8 suspension upgrade from Hoppen, BTW, as Audi was not marketing upgrades on their web site at that time). Contact Joe Hoppen @ http://www.hoppenmotorsport.com/ for more details and a technical explanation of what these things do. You will need to call them as the anti-sway bars are not listed on their web site.

When you put your new springs and roll bars on (let the dealer do it) -- the dealer will perform a full all wheel alignment. IMO you will need a second all wheel alignement after 1,000 miles. Your tires will thank you for the second alignment. Reason? The springs will "settle" or could do so and generally the second alignment is included in the installation charge. It was at Northland Audi here in Cincinnati, anyway.

Hope this helps.

trejos28 · August 2001

I too have the 2.8 and love it. You're right, the initial acceleration is not the best, but overall...wow..the A6 is a great car. course, we all know that, right?

blehrlich · August 2001

Thanks for all the great info on this board. I just leased a 2001 4.2, and I pick it up tomorrow. Hopefully I can now contribute (as opposed to lurking). The end of year deals were just too good to wait for 2002.

allart · August 2001

tires:

http://www.autospeed.com/A_0996/page1.html

AWD, 4WD, etc:

http://www.audiworld.com/tech/index.html

click on [About Audi], and then on [Introduction to All Wheel Drive Systems]

markcincinnati · August 2001

WOW -- that Intro to All Wheel Drive Systems was great. Thanks for posting the link.

tubey · August 2001

Hey dianb and bruno103!

Right on! I get tired of all the denigrating cracks about the 2.8's gutless demeanor too. I also have a '99 A6Q and love it. Yeah, it works a little hard off the line, but using the Tip helps. Out on the highway it's great, as you say.

Troubles? Practically none in almost 22,000 miles. A temp gauge sensor went screwy, and the driver's window guides broke (a common '99 problem my dealer told me). My fuel gauge senders and tierod end boots were replaced in recalls, but the former had given me no trouble. The dealer went ahead and replaced it anyway.

Unless this wonderful ride goes completely to hell in the next year I'm taking it into retirement with me at the end of '02. And, yeah, I've already bought the extended warranty just in case.

I love this car more than any I've ever owned.

dianeb773 · August 2001

Thanks for the feedback. It's good to know that others share my enthusiasm for the A6 2.8Q. It's by far the best car I've ever owned.

scott0718 · August 2001

Actually, I got a car. But the day ain't over yet. Just kidding. Well, maybe not. Let me go talk with the missus.
I picked up my new A6 2.7T, Casablanca White w/ Melange interior, Preferred luxury, Premium, Bose, and Sunshades. I just love the car. The end-of-model-year lease deals were just too good to pass on, and right now I intend to buy the car at lease end.
I also wanted to thank all of you. I've been lurking on this board for some time, making it part of my mandatory homework, and comparing this car with the S80, GS, 5 series, and a few others. I just came away with the overwhelming impression that the A6 was no doubt the best (and safest) buy for the money. Thanks you all for your good information and input. This forum has been a wonderful resource.

lime52 · August 2001

IN SPEAKING WITH A LOCAL AUDI DEALER TODAY ABOUT LEASE SPECIALS HE MENTIONED THEY HAD TWO AVAILABLE. THE FIRST WAS $399/MO. O DOWN ON 2001 2.8 MODELS. THE SECOND OPTION WAS $499/MO 0 DOWN ON A 2001 2.7T. WHILE THEY BOTH SOUNDED GREAT MY INITIAL INTEREST WAS IN THE 2.8. HE REPLIED BY STATING THAT THEY WERE ALL GONE, BUT HE HAD 18 2.7T'S AVAILABLE.

MY REACTION IS TO TRY AND GET THE DEALER TO GO FOR $450/MO. TO RELIEVE HIM OF ONE OF THE 2.7T'S BASED ON THE FACT THAT 1) THEY SEEM TO HAVE WAY TOO MANY IN STOCK 2) THE 2002 A6 WILL ONLY BE 30 HORSES SHY OF THE 2001 2.7T MAKING IT SOMEWHAT LESS DEESIRABLE HAS ANYONE HAD ANY LUCK WITH A SIMLAR STRATEGY? ANY ADVICE ON OTHER POINTS OF NEGOTIATION? I AM ALSO ASSUMEING THE FACT THAT THE 2.7T WILL BE SELLING CLOSER TO INVOICE AT THIS POINT AS WELL.

timcar · August 2001

The $499 is an Audi Financial incented deal. I don't think you'll get any movement. I got a good deal about 6 months ago, and my payment is about $150 a month north of that with 15K a year allowance. Based on everything I've read from those who've scrutinized the deal, if you like the car and want it, go grab it with both hands, now!

markcincinnati · August 2001

I have owned three A6 class automobiles with the 2.8 powerplant (1992 100S 1993 100S 1999 A6 2.8)-- and, at the moment in time that I owned them, I thought they were the best cars I ever had. All of them, except the '99 were 5spd manuals and they performed very well in every aspect. Even the '99 A6 2.8 was very enjoyable, comfortable and fast -- it just wasn't quick off the line. I never felt the car was unsafe or in any way undesirable. Having said that, I hasten to add that the A6 with more power (as in my current 4.2) is all the above and more.

It seems as if there are more vocal 2.7T and 4.2 "members" on this forum -- I will check, but I don't think I have seen much bashing of ANY A6 on this board, ever.

The Audi A6 "family of cars" is, IMHO, top shelf all across the entire family -- not just the 2.7T and 4.2. I bet the 2002 A6 3.0 will have its fans, too. This is a board for ALL interested in Audi A6's. NO defensiveness needed -- I, for one, am interested in the experiences of A6 owners and shoppers, without regard to their engine choice. If I were to express a bias, it would be for quattro -- not just the HP and torque.

Quattro is my (well, Audi's) secret weapon.

markcincinnati · August 2001

There is a comparison of the A6 4.2, a Mercedes E430, a BMW 540 and a Lexus GS430 (?) -- at least I think I got the list right. The funny thing is the Audi (which did NOT win, BTW) was about $7,000 less than the BMW, for instance. The Audi 4.2, from a price perspective should be compared to the BMW 530 -- I guess it is an "honor" to be included in such a pricey category, tho. . .

Anyway, if you get a chance, read the article, I think it says great things about all four of these cars, with the author's conclusion that any one of them would be welcome in his garage. Yet, the 540 was "the winna and still champion" in the mid size super sedan race.

But, from my Audi-biased point of view, the article pointed out that the Audi A6 4.2 was:

1. lowest price
2. had quattro
3. performance that was better in some respects and only marginally worse in others
4. stylish and well made

Conclusion: the Audi is the best value and "the safest" -- in a world where price, for most of us, does matter, this is a big deal. I read this article and said to myself these other guys better look out, the Audi is running neck and neck with you (at much lower dollars) -- and passing on the left.

Of course if BMW takes its considerable talent and brings an AWD BMW 540 to market (it might well be awesome). . .well, competition is good for the breed. Audi would, I'm sure, respond with yet another "oh wow" car (there is an all new A6 in the pipeline for 2003).

tubey · August 2001

As an addition to Mark's fine summary of the Motor Trend comparo, I received my new Car & Driver yesterday and they did one between the 540i, a WELL USED 2000 A6 4.2, Caddy DTS, Jag S-type, Benz E430 (non four-matic, though), Infiniti Q45, and Lexus GS430. The Audi placed a close second behind the 540i, and the only knock was that it was, they thought, too heavy. Otherwise, the race was close.

gooddesign · August 2001

Isn't Motor Trend the "National Enquirer" of car magazines, though? Their credibility isn't the best.

gooddesign · August 2001

Someone from the AudiWorld boards gave a link to a current debate/soon-to-be flame war at bimmer.org. Some former Audi owners compared their new BMWs to their old Audis, mostly A4s.

Although this is the A6 forum, it is still applicable for the most part.

>>>
1) If the lights are on (running/headlights) the BMW's windshield washing system automatically gushes the headlights, your hood, and bumper with windshield fluid. What happens when you just want to clean your windshield only at night? You can't unless you turn off the lights completely. When the headlight washer system is activated it sprays windshield washer fluid all over the front of the car, it really makes a mess.

The Audi- Push the stalk once to spray the windshield, hold the stalk down longer for the headlights.
Advantage Audi

2) The Audi's stereo system works without the key being inserted in the ignition. After about 1.5 hours the radio automatically shuts off to prevent the battery from going dead. Advantage Audi.

3) Audi's interior lights can be programmed to work independently. If you only want the rear interior lights to go on when you open the doors you can do that. The BMW is everything or nothing.
Advantage Audi.

4) The Audi has a hook that holds the panel up on the spare tire compartment. That makes using the spare a lot easier. The BMW? You have to hold the panel with one hand while you try to remove the spare tire with the other, good luck. Advantage Audi.

5) The BMW's Folding rear seats can only be operated from the trunk. The Audi's from within the cabin. What happens when it's pouring rain outside (like today) and your umbrella is in the trunk. You guessed it. In the BMW you would have to get out of your car, get soaked, and open the trunk. In the Audi you just pull the seat lever (lockable), Fold down the rear seat, reach into the trunk and grab your umbrella, All while remaining dry inside your car. Advantage Audi.

6) Audi's AWD systems have a real lowered sports suspension. BMW's AWD suspension is jacked up even higher than the normal suspension. Giving it that Riding on stilts look. Advantage Audi.

7) Audi's rear power window switches are illuminated. BMW Nope. Advantage Audi

8) Audi has a light on the bottom rear portion of all doors. When the door is open you see the light from a distance. The 5 series has it but the 3 series doesn't.

9) Minor- the Audi's trunk unlocks with the driver's door. I find myself always having to push the trunk release on the BMW a lot because it only unlocks the trunk when all doors are unlocked. Advantage Tie

10) Center rear seatbelt- The Audi's center rear seat seatbelt is a shoulder belt with a retracting roll. The BMW has an airline style non-retracting lap belt in the center rear position. This makes a huge difference in installing a child seat in that position (universally considered the safest position for a child seat). Advantage- Audi

11) Interior lighting fixtures- The Audi has nicely designed interior lighting fixtures while the BMW has what amounts to a bare flashlight bulb in front of a crinkled plastic background. Advantage- Audi

12) Moonroof switch - Glitches aside, the Audi has a clever dial control that enables you to, with one touch, dial up the amount of "open" you want.

13) Real aluminium interior trim

14) Far stronger/better quality door hinges than BMWs high modulous plastic (black piece)

15) Nice chrome plated trunk hooks.

16) Includes free trunk net

17) Includes first aid kit and emerg. triangles headliner handles on driver side and passenger side (missing on BMW coupes) -but BMW's get nice rechargeable flashlight

17) New Symphony indash CD-changer/cassette unit standard

18) Thick sport steering wheel as a factory build option

19) Security alarm standard

20) The Audi has this mini sun visor above the rear view mirror that blocks the sun in the gap between the rear view mirror and the top of the windshield. Sure, it's a little thing, but it really impressed me in erms of how thorough Audi was in designing that car.
<<<

All of those things make me happy that I chose an Audi. Hope this helps some "undecided" shopper make the right decision!

tubey · August 2001

1. Puddle lights on the bottom of all doors
2. A slot under the steering column to hold the manuals pouch; leaves more room in the glove box

I'm sure if I spent some time at it I could think of more things. Suffice to say, however, that the Audi details - little or not - are the things that really enhance the ownership experience over the long term.

Several years ago Automobile Magazine published an interview with the gentleman who was at the time retiring from Consumer Reports after many years as head of their auto testing unit. I wish I had clipped the article to save, but he made a point of citing Audi as the only company he had seen who were consciously trying to build into their cars the true user-friendly-why-didn't-someone-do-this-a-long-time-ago features. In fact, when he retired, guess what brand he bought for his personal wheels.

Natch. He motors behind the four rings.

morphie · August 2001

I ordered, about three (3) weeks ago, my wife's second A6 Avant 2002). The current
one is a '99. The dealer had just received the order codes.

While I am disappointed that it will not have the new CVT, the addition of the 3.0
engine should cure the torque complaints. However, I agree with one of the
previous writers that this has been an overstated problem.

While we did, during the first eighteen months, suffer from a few electrical and
recall woes, the next year and one half have been more enjoyable.

BTW: I did test drive the allroad; nice vehicle with an exemplary engine.

chicago27t1 · August 2001

I assume when you say you want to knock the dealer down from $499 to $459/month you're pulling a number out of the air. As I've said in many previous postings, be sure you understand where the lease price is coming from. For more info on this see my posting 1541. You may also want to check the lease conversation in postings 1436-1480.

Audi's current lease deal is based on a low money factor (around .00142 on the 2.7t). However, it also includes a markup of 7% over invoice. I got my 2.7t lease for 2.25% over invoice. So, you can negotiate on Audi's current deal.

Without going into all of the calculations, I believe that their current deal ($1000 down, .00142 money factor, 39 month term) should get you a monthly payment of around $455/month IF you can get them to deal for 2.5% over invoice. But when you talk to them, make sure you go in with that equation.

chicago27t1 · August 2001

Of course, the above calculation does not include sales tax.

chicago27t1 · August 2001

Mark,
Today, I went to my Audi dealer to have the xenon lights raised. While I was there, I spoke to the service manager about sway bars and springs. He said the parts and labor for new springs (the springs that come with the 2.7t sports suspension) would run me about $1500 for parts and labor. He said that there would be a difference in ride, but that it would not be significant.

He said that replacing the rear sway bar with one that had a greater diameter would be a lot cheaper (arount $200 installed), but he didn't know how much difference that would make either.

Basically, he said that an A6 is simply not going to corner like my old A4 because of the car's design (larger car and longer wheelbase).

Your thoughts on this?

Will replacing the sway bar without touching the springs do much for me. I don't face a lot of mountain roads in Chicagoland, but I do miss hitting a cloverleaf at 50 mph without feeling like I'm going to go flying off the road. On the other hand, my wife does not miss me hitting clover leafs at 50mph.

morphie · August 2001

Even though the question was directed to Mark, may I interject my two cents?

I recognize the limitations of the A6 relative to the A4; it is not unlike the distinct personalities of the 3 and 5 series BMW's. Mark's summary of his experience with roll bar and other suspension alterations is excellent. However, based upon my experience, I would caution an "incremental" approach; in other words, start with tires.

The addition of higher performance rubber (e.g. Michelin Pilots, etc.) makes an enormous difference, in both responsiveness (positive) and ride (possible negative). Further, the change is reversible; with suspension modifications, you may not wish to engage in added cost and time, if the initial results are not to your liking. Of course, one may also want to consider the impact upon resale value.

Consequently, I suggest starting slow, one step at a time. Also, one must accept that he A6 will probably never have the subjective feel of an A4; but it does have other redeeming characteristics

vty

Michael

markcincinnati · August 2001

I agree with morphie several things I need to clarify will perhaps help in the decision process regarding suspension upgrades.

When I upgraded my 1997 A8's suspension, there was NO Audi of America part number to help me know what to buy -- there is now, BTW. So here is what I did, I called Joe Hoppen, personally (also talked with his son) and told him I want my A8 to handle more like the 1995 S6 I had traded in on the A8. He gave me some information and some costs and a recommendation. The net of his intial recommendation was "buy the Audi S8 suspension kit" with or without the S8 anti-sway bars, and put a maximum performance plus zero or plus one wheel/tire upgrade on at the same time. He told me that the Audi upgrade would have only a slight impact on ride, but a good effect on handling -- although he told me about an ABT upgrade that would lower the ride height by 35mm (the S8 lowered the ride by 20mm), but he cautioned me that the ride would be much more harsh with the ABT upgrade.

I also put new shocks (which were part of the S8 kit) on the car with the new springs and tires. After my dealer installed everything and I had had my second all wheel alignment after 1,000 miles on the S8 suspension and 245 x 50 x 17 Pirelli PZero's (up from the 225 x 55 x 17 stock Goodyears) I noticed that the rear end of the car would "squirm" on sharp corners at speed when the road surface was NOT as smooth as glass (the roads around Cincinnati are generally not as smooth as glass BTW). I called Hoppen again and he said that I would cure that problem with a REAR anti-sway bar, but that I could buy both front and rear S8 sway bars for $295.00 (and have the Audi dealer install them).

I ordered the sway bars and a high performance air filter, let the dealer install them and my A8 was, at this point, fully transformed into what I called my AS8 (for almost S8). I kept the car for about 47 or 48,000 miles, very happy with the performance of the car, even though it had the 5spd non-tiptronic auto transmission. The only thing I was missing, IMO, were the S8 sport seats (the 1997 A8 had "comfort seats").

If you want to upgrade your Audi's handling prowess, I would buy the springs from Audi of America (on the website), plus zero the tires (to either Ultra High Performance or Maximum performance - Z or better rated; and, if you live where there are moderate winters, I would at least consider ultra high performance all season tires or consider investing in winter high performance tires and wheels and have a second set, ie) and order both front and rear upgraded anti sway bars (from Hoppen or another Audi tuner).

You will have very little ride harshness increase and you will have significant handling improvements. I don't know where the cost estimates came from, they seem perhaps a little high. The springs are under $400, the sway bars under $200, the tires probably over $600 and if you have all this (which should include 2 all wheel alingments) done at once for maximum effect at your authorized Audi dealer, I would suspect your total cost will be between $1,500 and $2,000 based on my A8 experience. It seems the parts, today, cost less and the labor is more than when I had this done on my car in late 1997. The price you were quoted it seems to me did not include the sway bars and tires, and since the springs from Audi are $325 (which with tax and shipping will be UNDER $400), I do not understand why the charge for a spring upgrade (labor) was quoted at over $1,100. I think with parts cost of $1200 (springs, sway bars & tires) that a MAXIMUM labor cost would be $800 -- for a total drive it out cost of $2,000.

If this is too much (see morphie's comments) and seems like a one way street, then I agree with morphie, start with the best maximum performance plus zero'd tires on the market (I like Dunlop SP9000's) and see if this incremental step is satisfactory. If not, go the rest of the way -- I was very pleased with the results. And, from this moment on, I will only order my Audis with the sport suspension option.

bmms8 · August 2001

what do you guys think is a better car between the Audi A6, and the Jaguar X-type 3.0?

ported · August 2001

Right on about the 2.8Q. We also have a '99 A6Q and love it. It is fast at higher revs. Really seems to be set-up for a manual, as in Europe. Tip does help.

Tubey: which warranty?

mkn · August 2001

We need your input to make some choices: we saw numerous Audi A6s in our area (used). One is a 99 A6 (loaded) with 64K miles on it, priced at $21500 (single owner); the other is a 98 A6 (same features) with 29K miles on it and priced at $26800 (ad on their website initially said $22900 but they said it was a mistake and immediately corrected it;it was a lease car though). Which of these is the better car? What is the maintenance like on the 99 A6 that has done 64K? Please advise.

Thanks

minos · August 2001

bmms8; I highly recommend the A6. The Sept. Issues of Motor Trend and Car & Driver have a nice review of the sport sedans re: A6 4.2L. There is also a short take on the Acura 3.5RL in Car & Driver (saw your post on the Lexus GS posts). I will be returning my 1998 GS 300 in this week in place of a 2001 Audi A6 4.2L sedan with premium and sport package. Definitely a step up from the Lexus GS with respect to ride and ergonomics. I have enjoyed the GS, have had no problems in 3 years, but the A6 is definitely an improvement. I don't think the X-type is in the same car class.

Audi A6

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