Audi A6

mpuzach · August 2000

I agree. Before ordering my A6 I listened to both the standard and Bose systems at a dealer. As a self=proclaimed home "audiophile", my only interest was in getting the factory system that sounded better to my ear. In this case, it was the standard system. The Bose sounded "muddy" (as previously stated by mcrob); in addition, the imaging was such that it sounded as though all of the music was coming from behind me, a sensation that I didn't care for.

To anyone buying ANY car who cares about sound quality, listen to the available options before you buy, and DON'T assume that the more expensive ones will sound the best. It's just not always true.

stoney · August 2000

In buying a 1997 A4, I picked the standard system as sounding better. Sure, there may have been less ability to reproduce bass, but the standard system lacked a certain harshness or hardness in the treble, typical of Bose systems that push too wide a bandwidth through the main drivers.

In a 2000 A6 2.7T, I found the system harsh, brash, unsubtle to say the least, forward, unable to produce many variations in instrumental or voice textures, and generally unpleasant.

I much prefer a modest audiophile system I set up in my Accord many years ago, an all Nakamichi system that would be a bit pricey in today's prices but only has two channels (in front) plus a subwoofer. Much more musical and accurate.

In any system with front and rear speakers, there is a tradeoff... the rear tend to have more bass owing to more space for larger speakers and volumes behind them, but the front being preferred in terms of soundstaging. Play with the fader to get the best tradeoff. There shouldn't be much difference between standard and Bose in this regard.

By the way, I have been a professional audio reviewer, audio consultant, and acoustician. My recommendation is to get the standard system, then upgrade either a little or a lot of the system as your budget allows... in any case, it will be better sound than the Bose system.

bollinger · August 2000

Especially if you are to compare Mercedes to Audi.

The A4 and A6 system differ significantly.

As to the overall quality, I can't say, as that is subjective. However, I can comment on statements such as:

'In any system with front and rear speakers, there
is a tradeoff... the rear tend to have more bass
owing to more space for larger speakers and volumes
behind them, but the front being preferred in
terms of soundstaging. Play with the fader to get
the best tradeoff. There shouldn't be much
difference between standard and Bose in this
regard.
'

The front and rear speakers in the A6 Bose system are identical. They also have very similar air volumes behind them, as both sets are in the doors, there are no speakers on the rear deck in the A6.

mbnut, could you describe the MB E-class system a little more? I don't understand that you mean by two speakers in the corners of the dash.

The A6 Bose system has woofers/midrange in the lower part of all 4 doors, and tweeters next to the door handles on all 4 doors. There is a subwoofer of dubious quality in one of the rear quarter panel areas. The subwoofer has two 6" drivers and is ported, driven by 80W. It isn't going to scare the neighbors, lets put it that way.

mbnut · August 2000

The best I can recall is that on each side of the car there was a speaker located in the A pillar as well as one on the upper part of the dash

automophile · August 2000

A disspaointment to hear about the poor quality of the Bose system in the A6. I am also an audio engineer and respect the judgement of those above.
The Bose System in my '97 ES300 was very good - tweeters in dash corners, mid-bass in doors and a 10" sub in the rear deck. VERY good sounding. My current JBL Premium system is dissapointing, with very poor clarity in the upper mids, where it is so critical (Huh? What did he say?, etc), poor loudness compensation and flabby bass.

Too bad there are no standards for the upgrade car stereos, but there should be, like the THX standards for movie theaters. Maybe someone will get wise to this?

From the above, It seems that I will get get much better sound for my future 2.7t by buying the stock system and spending the same outside $$ on upgrades.

Thanks!

stoney · August 2000

Yes, the A6 Bose sounded better than the A4 Bose that I recall from years ago, but not enough for me to want to listen to it. The A6 system was lively and dynamic, rather broad-bandwidth, but not pleasant to my ears. In my (eventual) A6 2.7T, I will keep the dash unit (at least to start with), and gut the rest of the system to put in a few thousand worth of audiophile equipment, with soundstage in the front (rear speakers either turned down very low or removed).

One thing I won't do is place tweeters more than a few inches from the midrange. This causes one of the most vile dismemberments of music, but most people don't notice the discontinuity... they just say, "gee, lost of highs."

Woofers in the rear deck is much better than in the trunk, especially a "bandpass" woofer. even better can be mid-bass drivers in the doors near the midrange drivers. You want to have fast, dynamic woofers serving the upper bass, located near the midrange drivers.

Lower bass can be anywhere in theory... the wavelenth is so long... but you often hear the harmonic distortion (often caused by the car itself vibrating) and the air rush noise, drawing your attention to the woofer location. My present system rolls off at 6dB/octave (plus acoustic rolloff) at about 60 Hz in the front panels, and the woofer in the trunk quietly supplements them, tuned to sound flat through ports in the rear deck. I can't turn it up much or I start noticing the direction of the bass to the rear.

mrbuk1 · August 2000

Hello all,

I am thinking about buying a 2.7T (tiptronoic) or 4.2, but I have some question based off of the last years worth of postings that I have been reading all day and night.

First, pardon my ignorance, but is there any performance increase when using the manual mode shifting of the TIP verses the automatic mode? I assume not because the transmission shifting speed and weight are the main reasons for the extra delay over a stick.

What are the major differences between the 2.7T and 4.2? From what I've read, the 4.2 comes with the normally aspirated 8 cylinder with 300Hp-295 lb/ft verses the 2.7T's 250Hp-258lb/ft, but the curb weight difference of 4024 (4.2) verses 3836 (2.7T Tip) ends up posting close performance times (6.7 verse 6.6 in the 2.7T). The 4.2 comes standard with most of the options found in the 2.7T, but if you purchase both cars loaded (as I plan), I don't see where you get anything more out of the 4.2 verses the 2.7T for the extra $thousands. Since I'm planning on the Tiptronic transmission, is there a performance advantage that I should consider with either vehicle? If not, besides the cost and nicer rims of the 4.2, what else should I consider when choosing between the two?

I've also read many notes about annoying problems that may sway my decision. Can somebody provide input on the following:

In a earlier forum somebody explained why people were experiencing thunking noises when decelerating or accelerating just after a cost/breaking situation (speed bumps/traffic jams). They believed it to be the nature of the AWD system. I spend about 1 hour/day each way to work in stop in go traffic and would be extremely dissatisfied if I had to live with thunking noises. Can somebody characterize the extent of the annoyance or probability of occurrence?

Few people also commented about vibrations at a few speed gaps (35-25 and 65-75 if I remember correctly). Is this a wide spread issue? Do the 2001 models resolve either of these problems?

I read much about the gas gauge issue, but I assume it will not be an issue in the 2001 models. Correct me if I am wrong here.

Many people solicit the advantages of traction control and AWD. I've read a great deal of postings about how good traction control works in vehicles such as the Volvo S80 (I'm also interested in the T6), but I've yet to read personal experiences of the usefulness with AWD in snow. I live in the NH hills. FWD and traction control can't get me up hills in a bad storm. Can anyone comment?

One last question. I've read some opinions about possible limitation on dealers stock and recent high demand for the 2.7T. Should I expect to pay a higher premium? From what I gather, most people pay 5%-7% over invoice. Others get in between 3% and 5%, but a few have mentioned the On-line web sites such as greenline.com which has already quoted me a meer 3.5% over invoice. This sounds like the best deal so far and I haven't even approached financial negotiations with the dealers yet. What do you think? Oh. Does anybody have experience with dealers North of Boston, MA? Audi dealers tend to be 50+ miles apart in this area.

Thanks for you input.
Mike

displaysol · August 2000

What type of dealer markup should I expect on a new 2001 A6 2.7T sedan.

mpuzach · August 2000

$1500 - $2000 over invoice is pretty typical. The invoice numbers here at Edmund's are 100% accurate, so this is the place to do your research.

I'd suggest going to the A6 forum at http://www.audiworld.com and asking other posters there the same question; you may even get some answers from folks who have recent experience at your particular dealer.

cropper1 · August 2000

mrbuk1 - I have the 2.7T which now has 10,000 miles on 2000 model. No problems whatsoever. The nature of these forums is that you are going to hear about problems but I think they are not as common as you might expect. I have not experienced any of the problems mentioned here or at Audiworld.

I find the Tip very responsive and cannot see any gains changing manually, but it is great for down changes into bends and to hold a gear coming out of a bend. Like you say if you go for the loaded 2.7 you can have almost the same spec. as the 4.2 and save a few $$$. The raw performance figures are very close. I don't think there is any substitute for quattro, traction control on the Volvo or other FWD cars is just covering up the fact that when the going gets slippy the car can't cope. Get Quattro. I find the Bose in the A6 superior to the Bose in the Merc C280 I had before. The best thing to do is get some test driving experience in and see for yourself. Good Luck.

datsun2 · August 2000

I just got my new fuel gauges put in as a result of the recall. I knew I loved my A6 but when the dealer gave me an Olds Aurora (another $40K car) I was sold again on the A6.

While I liked the off the line speed of the Aurora, the seats were uncomfortable. You sat on top of the seats, as in the A6 you sit in them.

Now that all the bugs should be out of the car, I hope to have years of great driving.

mosi1 · August 2000

Haven't pulled the trigger yet. As indicated, I'm going to try to find a 2000 leftover. The 2.7T is probably my first choice but I'm willing to consider a 4.2 if the deal is a good one. I understand the 4.2 sales were much slower than anticipated. Audi is advertising special leasing terms on the 4.2 so we'll see. I'm considering thei premier purchase program and would expect the key ingredients to be about the same, e.g. residual and money factor. Any experience with this?

mpevzner · August 2000

Hi,
I am a newcomer to this conference. Finally I am looking forward to replacing my '99 Mitsu Galant Lemon with a car. I want an A6 2.7T 6 speed as close to the invoice as possible.

1. I have bought my Galant close to the invoice using autobytel.com Has anybody bought an A6 through them?
2. What are the other options to get it as close to the invoice as possible?
3. I am probably buying it in Nevada or Oregon to avoid CA sales tax. I can drive a little bit to save $3K+ so feel free to call me cheap. Has anybody done that? Any forseen issues?
4. I am going to title it in the name of my company and to make it tax deductable

The CPA is telling me that it's not gonna be simple but it's way easier to write it off if I lease the car. Is the lease price MSRP or invoice? Has anybody leased it, is it worth it? As for the mileage I am probably gonna make 15K-20K a year. Do you think a lease is a good deal in this case?
Thanks in advance,
Looking forward to "upgrading" soon
Max
A.K.A. the Mitsu Basher

ported · August 2000

Hi Mosi,

I am not a leasing expert. Last Fall Audi had a program for both leases and a special "balloon" financing plan. The balloon was basically similar to a lease (or a balloon mortgage) but you take title to the car, with a balloon payment at the end of the term. The deal was $3K under invoice, dealer keeps $1K, you net $2K under invoice. The trick was, there were no penalties for paying the balloon early. So we did a 1-year balloon, made two payments, then paid it off. Interest was maybe $200, so we netted $1,800 under invoice. Bought a '99 A6Q 2.8. We love it.

There are several leasing wiz's on this board who could probably help you.

By the way, the 2.8 is perfectly adequate for us. If you are not a total speed freak, you can get the same car for $$$ thousands less, and they deal more on the 2.8's. I find the 2.8 is plenty quick for me if you keep the rev's up (Tip helps), but it is somewhat sluggish between 1,500 to 3,000 RPM, i.e. at 20-40 MPH.

Good luck,

Ported

ported · August 2000

Forgot to add:

I was at Schaumburg Audi the other night (Sunday) goofing off (wife traveling). They had one or two 4.2's MY2000, I think. I did not notice any MY2000 2.7T's, they had a bunch of '01's. But, I didn't look to hard. I was scouting for an allroad (none yet.)

Ported

mpuzach · August 2000

I also have an A6 2.8Q (MY 2000) with Tip and love it. The engine is perfect for my needs, and the 5-speed Tip is fantastic. That's not to say that the thrill factor wouldn't be even higher with a 2.7T or 4.2, as it certainly would be. For the extra thousands of $$$, it ought to be! My only point is that performance of the the 2.8 is more than adequate for me, and it may be for mpevzner, too; in my case the extra $$$ for the 2.7T was a deal-breaker. If you haven't already done so, mpevzner, test drive a 2.8Q and decide for yourself. If it's got enough for you, save the bucks. If not, get the biturbo. Either way, you'll be getting a fantastic car.

I'd also suggest browsing and posting on the A6 forum at http://www.AudiWorld.com. There are many more A6 enthusiasts there than here, and they'll gladly share any info you need both before and after buying (or leasing).

Good luck!

automophile · August 2000

1)To get the lowest price, I would be prepared with the true invoice cost from Edmunds, and be prepared to shop several online sellers as well as dealers. The end of the month is a good time to shop, end of a quarter is better as the dealers need to pump the sales figures.

2) I can appreciate buying the car out of state, but you better have an address registered to you for the car registration, mailing the plates, etc. There are several new laws to control out of state car buying - better check into this.

3) If you are going to lease it for your business, you will have a hard time if it is registered out of state. Also, most leases cap at 15K miles per year and extra miles are EXPENSIVE. They expect the car back, and want to be able to re-sell it.

4) The lease price is based on the selling price of the car - the price you negotiate. If you lease, do NOT pay any "aquisition" or "disposition" fees - these are arbitrary fees the dealer or bank tacks on to gouge you. One dealer dropped them really quick when I got up to walk out, and my excellent Lexus dealer even struck them from the agreement without asking.

mpevzner · August 2000

First of all I would like to thank everybody for your responces and information, I do appreciate it.
I have a couple of extra questions, they may seem stupid, so please excuse:

1. When is the end of the quarter? Does it mean the end of financial quarter? I will also ask my CPA about it

2. The business is actually located out of state, I am a consultant, so today I am on a client assignment in California, tomorrow it may be for example Oregon as well as any other state. I can have an address in Nevada, it should be pretty cheap when compared to $3.5K CA sales tax. Are there any restrictions on driving the out-of-state cars in CA?

3. If I decide to register the car in CA later, let's say within a couple of years from now, will I have to pay the CA sales tax? I was told "possibly yes" does anybody know it for sure? Should the DMV folks know it?

4. Did anybody have any luck with buying and titling the car in the company name? I am thinking of making it kind'a tax deductible assuming the CPA approves it

Thanks again for your feedback, and wish everybody good luck and lots of fun.
Regards
Max

manuva · August 2000

Hi All,

My car makes a whinning engine noise. This is very noticible at idling. While driving, this noise gets drowned out. I showed this to the dealer: no much help (dude couldn't hear it).
I drove other 1996 A6s in the dealer's lot -- none had this problem.

Any ideas on what might be wrong? Greatly appreciate any advise on how to get rid of the noise.

Thanks
Manu

mpuzach · August 2000

I'm not familiar with the noise you described, so I can't help you. I suggest, however, that you post your question at the A6 forum at http://www.AudiWorld.com. There are MANY people there, and I'm confident that someone there can help you.

ajayme · August 2000

Is it a turbine like sound? If it is, then it's your air-conditioning auxillary fan. This sound is normal. If you don't hear it when it's hot and the air is running- then you need to worry!
If you're not sure, turn off your AC and see if it stops.

andys3 · August 2000

1. This AM, I was pushing through a tight corner on a wet road (wanted to see about this "riding on rails" thing that everyone raves about) and the rear end slipped out a bit as the car slipped sideways (more oversteer than understeer). I have a 2001 2.7T Tip. Question is, I thought that ESP (which was on) was supposed to prevent that degree of mild fishtailing I felt, and I was surprised at the degree of lateral slip (blame the stock Conti's?). Comments?
2. New problem: has anyone had difficulty with the owner's manual falling out of the little under-the-steering-wheel space provided for it during brisk launches or uphills? This is getting annoying, and it's dog-earing my manual! The whole package of manuals (main manual, radio manual, maintenance, etc plus the faux-leather binder) won't fit under there so I've only got the main manual in the compartment. (I should be so fortunate that this is the only problem with the car! The only other one I've noticed is the occasional ghost in the radio that changes frequencies when I start back up. Otherwise, flawless at 600 miles).

bollinger · August 2000

I don't have ESP, but was your rear slip serious enough to warrant activation? I can't tell.

Put more stuff in your manual binder to fatten it up until you have to jam it in the slot. Then it won't fall out on you. That's what I did. If you put it in with the spine out, then you can hook either end of the spine with your fingers to pull it out when you want it. If you put it in with the pages out it is a little more work.

That binder is so lame. It should be real leather. Or perhaps the kind of fake leather they make seats from. Instead its just a cheap plastic slipcover.

mosi1 · August 2000

$3000 UNDER invoice? How does that work? Schaumburg took their$1000 off the top and your purchase price was $2000 under invoice. Sounds like a great deal. I'm going to check them out over the weekend. As far as models go, I have not driven the 4.2 or the 2.8 but will soon. The 2.7 is nice and if we can work out a deal like the one you describe I'll probably go for it. If a really great deal presents itself on the 4.2 I'll consider that as well. I'm not a speed freak but a little get up and go when merging on I90 or Chicago's other major roads would be nice. If the 2.8 performs adequately, perhaps I'll do that and take the family on a Disney cruise. I'll let you know when I pull that trigger and thanks for your insight.

alcohen · August 2000

Just closed on a "left over" 2000 4,2. Nav system, accoustic parking alarm, Xenon, cold pkg, rear air bags, 17" wheels. Could have done without the Nav & parking but it I liked the color combo (Ming blue & tungsten interior). These 4.2 must not be moving very well. MSRP was $53,130 and I closed the deal at $47,900. Thats $5,230 under sticker. I guess the dealer still made their $1,200 profit and any hidden from Audi but I'm happy. Criswell Audi in Annapolis MD.

automophile · September 2000

1) The end of a quarter-year - i.e. Sept 30, Dec 30 (also the end of the year!)
2) Corporations and businesses can own property check with your CPA
3) Ask the DMV about the tax, registration issues.

andys3 · September 2000

The rear slip was enough for me to notice, which in my mind should theoretically be enough to activate ESP, should it not? I'm not Mario Andretti, and I wasn't pushing all that hard. I think mostly what I experienced was sideways slip, and maybe there was some "automatic correction" of what I perceived to be oversteer.

ported · September 2000

Hi Mosi,

The under invoice deal was last year, on leases and balloons. We bought in late-August of 1999. I am not aware that Audi is running that deal again this year, especially since their sales are rising rapidly. $1000 over invoice should be no problem though, especially on a 2.8. 2.7T's have been tougher, because it is a home run.

Ported

mauritius · September 2000

Hello There,

This my first letter to Edmund townhall. I am writing this to thank you all for the precious information that I have collected from this site during the past three months.

Now that my car search is coming to an end, I would like to share my experience.

I started to look for a new car three months ago with a very board selection Sedan/SUV/WAGON etc..

After a few test drive, SUV is out of the question. My woman loves the X5 and Lexus, but it is just not my cup of tea. I wouldn't mind to buy one if I have a driver. The visibility is GREAT but the driving fun is simply not there. I would never be able to, say, downshift the gear entering the corner and shoot right out in a SUV. ( I would take the 323 or 540 wagon if she really insists on BMW).

If I am ten years older, I would consider Mercedes but for now, nay. I like SAAB very much and I think the S5 wagon is better looking than the BMWs on the outside. Just by looking at their wagon makes me want to go to Vermont or somewhere to ski. It takes me no time at all to get used to the car. I love the way that it drives; however, I strongly feel the interior design is dated. Since I am the one driving inside the car,(for the past 2 years, I drives 100 miles Monday-Fri) the exterior appearance cannot cover the dull inside look. In addition, the fit and finish cannot match the A6.

The tail design of Acura TL, the C/D review together with the price THE PRICE! brings me to an Acrua dealer. The salesperson is the BEST so far. Very pleasant, knows the car and its competition very well and not too hardsell. However,the TL drives like a bigger car in a negative way. I think its dimension is like the Saab but the Saab feels agile and is so much more easy to manoveur in city driving. On the whole, as with most Japanese cars nowadays, the overall appearance is VERY bland. So although it has the Best value:- Sorry, Mr nice salesman.

Still remember the advertising song of Volvo S80? when it first come out? :--
"How do I look? How do I look?"
There is really nothing to complain about its look, but after the first five minutes after the test drive, I count it out. The brake and the steering feels is very awkward to me. I feel like driving in a video game. The salesperson indifferent attitude PLUS some of your negative reviews do not help neither. (My old man will however miss its S--PACIOUS rear seat.)

Subaru Legacy looks big on the outside, but its rear seat is really not much bigger than the petite Impreza. I believe all the room has gone to the luggage department. And obviously, after I drive the Audi, there is really no comparison.

I really like the BMW 3series wagon. I tested drive a sedan for 40 minutes. The salesman is too busy to go with me, ;-). However, the interior is really cramped, a wagon will def. be better giving a much appreciated open space feeling. I really have to think hard on this one. In the end, I drop it because a loaded one will make in the price territory of an A6, which is competing with 5 series and the fact that an all wheel drive version is not currently avaliable.

Although by this time I have settle for an A6; there are still so many version to choose from.
Like many of you, my mouth cannot stop watering after that C/D review on 2.7 Allroad? Wagon. Several lengthy debates later, I decide not to wait ( I am still second guessing myself).

After going thru all those suggestions and comments from you guys, I decide to order a 2.7 thru Greenlight as Carorder is closed for business. After Greenlight inform me that the Warm+ Cold Weather Package can nowhere be find( I have to take either the Warm or Cold Package, not both),I am now doing it the old fashion way.

I found out that I can have a better deal on the 4.2 as against the 2.7. And as I do intend to keep the car for a while, my old 505 is 200,000 miles and the engine is still running strong, I believe the 4.2 is a better choice in the long run if I want to keep the car for six years or more. And as mentioned, I do drive a lot of highway miles.

The only thing that I worried about is the HUGE tires that come in the 4.2. Nine out of ten come equipped with the 17inch wheel 255/40 performance tires.( Just the tires, not the Sport package) I am buying an Audi for its wet/winter ability. I assume this set of tires will decrease rather than enchance when Winter comes. Furthermore, there is a lot of potholes in the city. Will the 255/40 makes the tires blow off more often as they are structure to be thinner than the 215/55 ones???

The Last question is:
Is a $1200- $2000 difference worth while to spend on the 2001 model as they come equipped with ESP?
The dealer offered me a better discount on the 2000 models which do not have ESP.

Thanks for all the help and hope I have bored you guys to death.

bad10 · September 2000

Keep in mind that the warranty on the 2001 is 4 years vs 3 years for the 2000 model. This also includes another year of free service. If you plan on keeping the car for more than 3 years I think this would be a deciding factor. The 4.2 is an awesome car...If I can figure a way to put it in my budget I will take the 4.2 over the 2.7T.

merwanirani · September 2000

Hi all of you Audi enthusiasts,
This is my first on line message (I just joined Townhall a couple of days ago.
I'm still shopping around for a 2001 A6 2.8 with tiptronic, premium pkg., Bose sound, ESP, rear side airbags, leather seating in Ming Blue (my wifes choice) with the Melange interior (my preference is the Silver with the black interior).
Any how I'm in San Diego CA and the best deal I can get is about 2K over invoice. Can I do better? I have tried carsdirect.com and they are no better.
I have been looking at other cars too but the A6 seems to be the best packaged automobile around. Are there any quirks or problems with this car? I plan to keep it a long time (my current steed is a '91 Mazda 929S with 84K and looks like new).
Looking for some advice.
Thanks and hope to report on how things go.
Merwan Irani

mpuzach · September 2000

The A6 is a fabulous automobile. I've had mine for 3 months now and still marvel at how good it feels to drive it. The 2.8 liter engine and 5-speed Tiptronic transmission are a wonderful power train; it provides more than adequate power and costs thousands less than the 2.7T. I assume you've taken a test drive; if not, it would be wise to do so before spending this kind of money.

As for quirks or problems, I've had none in 3 months/4500 miles. Not everyone has been as fortunate, though. My recommendation is that you post your questions on the A6 forum at http://www.AudiWorld.com. There are MANY more A6 owners there, and they're great about sharing information.

As for price, $2000 over invoice is probably at the high end of typical. $1200 - $1500 over is by no means unheard of, but it really depends on dealer supply and how hard you're willing to work at striking the deal. I paid just $592 over, but that was through CarOrder.com; they've since gone under.

One other thing regarding options...you didn't mention quattro or moonroof. Are you considering either?

4jays · September 2000

I just returned my '99 A6 to the manufacturer (as a lemon) and received a "settlement" check. I know many people that have A6's and love them, but also a few who have had many problems as I did. For a luxury car and the kind of money you will be paying I would opt for something with a better reliability record than the Audi. My problems ranged from minor but reoccurring electrical issues, to a constantly failing gas gauge, and to serious brake issues. Good luck!

mrbuk1 · September 2000

I have a bunch of questions:

1- What is the difference between the A4 and the S4?

2- Can anybody tell me about experiences with Audi service the Boston area? I want weigh the service department heavily in location of where I make my purchase.

3- How many people have noticed the quattro's inherent driveline windup wacking sound when accelerating after coasting/slowing? I commute for hours every week in stop and go highway traffic, and I don't want to hear annoying noises every time I gas it to move another 30 feet in traffic. I also have to deal with 4 speed bumps on a long hill to get to my house. Does anybody hear it after speed bumps? How bad is it?

4- Does the A6 have ample ground clearance? My 1996 Honda Accord is able to make it uphill over the 4 speed bumps (even the huge bump with massive scrapes), but I don't want to buy a car that I can't bring home without ripping off the exhaust or front end plastic cowling.

Thanks,
Mike

ajayme · September 2000

1. Big difference is engine! 2.7t vs 1.8 4 cylinder or 2.8 injected V6, std. quattro. Also suspension, price, etc. It's like asking what is the difference between a BMW 323 and an M3. Check Edmunds for details.

2. No experience

3. My A6Q is one yr. old with 11K miles and have had no noticeable driveline windup. My driving is mostly stop and go in Dallas. Our neighborhood has speed bumps and I take them at normal speed (I don't slow down!).

4. I've only had the front scrape on steep driveways backing up and an occasional front concrete "stopper" with no damage so far.

Hope this helps. My 2 cents worth is that the S4 (and A4) are very different cars from the A6. Make sure you drive both.

Good luck

djryan · September 2000

I leased my 2000 A6 2.8 at Hoen Audi in Carlsbad, CA. I talked to Terry Branco.....They gave me a great deal on the lease.....very easy transaction with no last minute pressure to buy lo-jack, under coating or anything. Give them a try....

By the way, I love my 2.8 Tip Milange/Milange.... 4,000 trouble free miles...

mrbuk1 · September 2000

Thanks for you input.

Based off of your information on the S4 verses A4, cam I assume the S6 (not available in the US) performs better than the A6? It would explain the desire I've read about in these forums.

I am only interested in a loaded A6 quattro 2.7t or Volvo S80T. The main reason is that there are very few cars I can fit in with my 6'5" long torso body. Even though I fit the Saab 9-5 doesn't do it for me with the horrible interior styling, noise ride, etc.

I'm having a difficult time deciding between the 2.7T and S80T. I like this interior and exterior of the S80 much better, but I like the functionality of the quattro (I live in snowy NH with hills) and some nice touch features such as auto-dim outside mirrors and Xeon headlights. The major problems have mostly been resolved in both cars, so other than test drives I not sure how to pick between them. Maybe I'll flip a coin if the stock market continues to do well for me over the next week.

Mike

ported · September 2000

Any reason not to buy a 2000 model, other than warranty bump? If you can find what you want, I would bet you could get it for $1,000 over invoice, maybe less.

petrie3 · September 2000

As it happens, I have both of these in my garage. (2000 models of S80 T6 and the A6 2.7T(sport). I leased the Volvo last Christmas for my wife. At that time I hadn't driven the A6. I thought then that the S80 was the best car/value in its class. Fast, comfortable, safe and priced right. My wife absolutely loves the car. At one time, I even considered leasing another one for me. But then I drove the A6 2.7t and, for me, it was no contest after that.

The driving experience in the A6 is, IMHO, superior to the S80. You feel the road better and feel more attached to it with quattro. The S80 feels almost "floaty" to me in comparison. There is also a significant amount of torque steer(due to lots of torque in the FWD) in the S80 that is absent in the A6. We have traction control in the S80, but it still feels less sure on the road than the A6. I never feel like I will fishtail in the Audi. We even have the 17 in. wheels in the S80, but the Sport package (PSK) of the A6 provides much better handling, even with the 16 in. wheels. Both cars are plenty fast, I'll say that.

I'm a little surprised that you like the S80 interior better. I think the A6 is the most attractive interior I've ever seen, especially at this price level. The 2000 S80 looks a little cheap in comparison (though I hear Volvo went back to real wood trim in 2001). I have the sport seats in the A6 which I love. But I think the Volvo seats are more comfortable for long haul driving. Maybe the most comfortable I've ever had. On the other hand, Audi seat memory adjusts mirrors as well as seats and Volvo's just adjusts the seats. I like 3 year leases and Audi's covers ALL service and maintenance(even brakes!) for 4 years in 2001. Cost of ownership is sure to be less in Audi.

Bottom line, can't go wrong with either car. I think both companies have created outstanding touring/sports sedans. You'll have to try both and decide which in your favorite. The good news is....my wife is happy and so am I ! Good luck!

mrbuk1 · September 2000

Petrie3,

I wish I could come to your house for test rides. I like and dislike both cars for various reasons. Some not so common than others. I wonder if most folks prefer the A6 interior. I don't like the many little 'chicklet' buttons (a good adjective somebody used a while back in one of these forums) in the control panel. It make it difficult to find the correct control which would cause me to look away from the road too often. The shifter also seems too close to the climate controls as well. Even leaning forward I still had a tough time determining what was behind that stick. One last thing that bugs me about the A6 interior is the excess of ash-trays (I guess Europeans like smoking more than Americans) and the lack of cupholders (not to mentions you the potential for accidentally insert your cup a bit harshly and spilling the contents all over the stereo/environmental controls. I shouldn't complain. I'm sure I'd get used to it. the A6 also has a few nice touches, like the folding side pockets, auto-dimming side mirrors, xeon lights, emergency kit, and hazard triangle.

I plan on test driving both this weekend. I've already tried the S80 T6 at a dealer and in a friends car. My impression was summed as very comfortable, with logical layout of controls (I believe in functionality over elegance - another reason why I'm waying the quattro over the classier exterior of the S80), top notch navigation system, poor take off power, good passing power, floaty side to side suspension, hyper brakes, and excellent sound. I'll let you know my opions after the test drives if you folks care to hear them.

Mike

merwanirani · September 2000

Hi folks,
Thanks for your advice and encouragements on my quest to buy an A6 2.8 Tiptronic but no Quattro.
To djryan, I am shopping at Miramar Audi and they are not giving such a good deal. I will be going to Hoehne Motors in Carlsbad to see what kind of a deal they can give me.
I might even end up in Hermosa Beach to see an Audi there. Has anyone seen the 2001 C-Series MB's? I here they are styled like the S-Series. I may see one this weekend. If I like it I may say bye bye to the A6.
Thanks again folks. Will keep you posted.
Merwan

mpuzach · September 2000

I don't want to beat a dead horse here. Both are superb cars, for sure. I came very close to buying an S80 2.9 before finally getting my A6 2.8 Quattro. In addition to the items already mentioned, here are some areas in which I think the Audi beats the Volvo:

1. Xenon headlights optional on A6, not available on S80. I have them and will NEVER go back to conventional halogens; xenons are excellent.

2. F+R heated seats in A6; F only in S80.

3. In 2000 at least, S80 had only 4-speed automatic vs. 5 speeds in A6; this may have changed for '01. In addition, Tiptronic available across A6 line; manual shifting not available on S80 2.9.

4. A6 has more complete instrumentation than S80 (oil temperature and voltmeter).

5. Front fog lights standard on all A6s; standard on S80 T6 but optional on S80 2.9 (dealer-installed).

6. Only the A6 has "puddle lights"!

7. Personally, I think the A6 interior is FAR more attractive than that of the S80, especially when illuminated at night.

8. Then there's the matter of quattro...

petrie3 · September 2000

I agree with everything that mpuzach said in his post. I gather you are only interested in the turbo models of each car.A couple of comments based on his post:

1. Xenons...nothing better.
2. I think Volvo offers heated rear seats now. Audi's have infinite adjustment, Volvo has just 2 settings.
3. I like the Audi Tip better than the S80 touchshift option.
4. Agree
5. With the xenons on I barely even notice when the fogs are turned on.
6. nice touch
7. I really think the A6 interior is incredible. Especially at night. You should see it that way. I agree with you that the A/C controls are a little awkward, but you do get used to them. I don't find much reason to mess with the settings. While I prefer the knobs for A/C in the S80, the overall climate control system in the Audi seems more powerful. Actually, we think our Volvo A/C may not be operating correctly. We'll have the dealer look at it soon.
8. Quattro. I just feel more secure and in control than in the Volvo. If snow and/or bad weather is a problem where you live...quattro!

As to the cupholders....Volvo's are great and I like the place for water bottles in the doors. But just have the Audi dealer replace the coin tray with an additional cupholder and you are set. I worry about spills too, but it hasn't been any problem at all.

cropper1 · September 2000

My 2.7T has over 10,000 miles and the car has been almost perfect, better than my previous Merc C280, and so has the dealer. As for the Volvo, read the Car & Driver $40K sedan test.(maybe Jan/Feb issue?) A6 First, 5 Series second and I can't remember after that but I think the Volvo was 6th? As "Car" magazine said, Audi has single handedly dragged interior car design back into vogue. I would also say the same about the exterior design.

petrie3 · September 2000

I agree with everything that mpuzach said in his post. I gather you are only interested in the turbo models of each car.A couple of comments based on his post:

1. Xenons...nothing better.
2. I think Volvo offers heated rear seats now. Audi's have infinite adjustment, Volvo has just 2 settings.
3. I like the Audi Tip better than the S80 touchshift option.
4. Agree
5. With the xenons on I barely even notice when the fogs are turned on.
6. nice touch
7. I really think the A6 interior is incredible. Especially at night. You should see it that way. I agree with you that the A/C controls are a little awkward, but you do get used to them. I don't find much reason to mess with the settings. While I prefer the knobs for A/C in the S80, the overall climate control system in the Audi seems more powerful. Actually, we think our Volvo A/C may not be operating correctly. We'll have the dealer look at it soon.
8. Quattro. I just feel more secure and in control than in the Volvo. If snow and/or bad weather is a problem where you live...quattro!

As to the cupholders....Volvo's are great and I like the place for water bottles in the doors. But just have the Audi dealer replace the coin tray with an additional cupholder and you are set. I worry about spills too, but it hasn't been any problem at all.

mrbuk1 · September 2000

Well, I took the 2.7T for a ride. Even though most tests results are the same as the S80, I like the performance of the 2.7T more. The Volvo is rather lofty in comparison. The A6 gives me more of the sports car feel. I shouldn't have been so critical of little things like buttons, cupholders and my ergonomic preferences.

I do have on major problem with the A6 that may sway my decision to the S80. I'm 6'5" and the A6 lacks leg room which force me to drive in a knee up position with my legs on either side of the steering wheel. The bad part is the obstruction of room by the center console. It pushes into the side of my calf. It isn't bad for short rides, but much stop and go traffic (my weekly commute) and it may be painful. Do any of you tall folks have this problem? I've was only in the car for 15 minutes when I noticed this issue. I've told the dealer that I would not be able to make up my mind unless I could test it for extended driving time or to/from work. He agreed to let me take the car overnight, but he doesn't have any more 2.7T with Tiptronics. I'll just have to wait a week or so.

Does anybody know of a web site that reports on dealers service departments? I'd like to attempt making a deal based on service and price. I guess convenience should be a factor as well.

Thanks,
Mike

petrie3 · September 2000

Glad you like the A6. Remember I said you can't go wrong. I agree with your assessment that it has more of a sports car/sedan feel. As to driving position, I am 6'4''; 220# and haven't noticed a problem with that. In fact, I felt that the S80 center console was a bit more "intrusive". My height is more in my legs too. But, everyone has an individual preference for driving position. I wonder....do this A6 have sports seats or regular? Try sitting in whichever of those you haven't been in yet, it might help. Other than that, just keep monkeying around with all the seat controls and see if you find a good place. I agree, if you feel that uncomfortable, it might bug you for as long as you own the car. On the other hand, you might get used to it and be just fine!

jstew2 · September 2000

This may be a stupid question, but did you have the steering wheel telescoped out all the way so you could get your seat back far enough?

automophile · September 2000

It is fortunate that you can take the car for an extended drive. I had a Lexus ES300 that was wonderful in every way, but I found that the seats have very little thigh support, and after 15-20 minutes I became very uncomfortable. I only kept it a year. You don't want to make the same mistake.

DO try a new driving position - perhaps what works with your current car doesn't in the Audi, but a new position will?

Good luck.

mrbuk1 · September 2000

Thanks for your input. I've tried the A6 with the steering wheel fully extended and raised. I've also tried the non-sport and sport versions, but the only difference I've noticed was the suspension. I have a friend who complains about center console in his older Lincoln Mark VIII, but he got used to it. As you said, it's individual preference and that could change with time. I'm very anxious to try the car overnight. I hope it gets here this week. I'll let you know how it goes.

Mike

Audi A6

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