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Comments
The CC is not working.
Can't see any broken fuses..
Any tips to get it fixed?
-Jan, Norway
Well, to a degree, that is true. After removing the battery and hunting it down, I found it. It resides about 10 inches below the battery tray on the inner body metal. No need to take out the battery, just remove the entire air cleaner assembly in full including the filter housing (one body bolt at the top on radiator rail, pegs in vertical holes at the bottom come right out).
My problem now is that I still have the problem of the fans never running. I couldn't find my alligator clips to run the fans test direct to battery as mentioned in my Haynes manual with no diagrams either.
I still have the trouble code 35 after disconnecting the battery so I'm stumped. I went looking for a Chilton's to see if they had more but the Boston Public Library has essentially no Chilton's on Chrysler Product Minivans after 1990. There was one in a remote branch but that was too much trouble.
Now, if anyone can help ME at this stage, I'd appreciate it. I'm still going to test the fans but two dying at once sounds a bit unlikely unless they rely on the same wiring that failed if that is the problem...
Thanks,
Dick
:mad:
Someone from DOT called today and said they were investigating similar complaints, and would I mind sending them the old brake lines? They are mailing out a FedEx label with prepaid shipping. If you're curious, Chrysler replied to my e-mail as follows: "Comments like yours are one way to learn of problems that may develop and improvements desired by customers. The information received is used in product development and quality analysis. Thank you again for your email."
Anyway, my humble suggestion for '96 Chrysler Grand minivans: if the brake light comes on, you should stop driving immediately and check for fluid dripping off the rear brake lines. It might drip down the gas tank near the filler neck. DON'T DRIVE IT if you see leaks; have it towed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that if you continue driving the vehicle in that condition, very soon whatever brake fluid remains in the master cylinder will be depleted after pressing enough times on the brake pedal, and only the emergency brake will be available. By the way, for what it's worth, our T&C has less than 82,000 miles. This incident is an anomaly. The van has generally served us very well.
I've had the brake fluid flushed on both of our Caravans every third year, and folks, if you could see how cloudy the fluid has become during that period, you would never consider leaving it in there for much longer. FWIW, I just did a brake job for a neighbor's 2001 Honda Odyssey with about 48,000 miles, and yup, same drill, I bled the brakes and out came the sludge that used to be brake fluid. So, from my perspective, a 1996 T&C with the factory fill of DOT-3 went 9 years..., WAAAAY beyond the call of duty. I'm thinking that you're lucky it went that long.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The technician that did the repair was surprised how the rear brake lines ran alongside a rail for awhile, then turned upwards and ran over the gas tank where salt could collect and corrode them. It is this design issue that is of interest to the gentleman who called from NHTSA.
Just curious, but in your '98 Grand Caravan do the rear brake lines take the same route over the gas tank (near the tank filler neck)? Thanks. Ken
So, your brake lines corroded from the outside? Yikes, I've never seen that one before.
Best Regards,
Shipo
did you figure out if that was the issue, as my 91 gc 3.3 dies on me as well , it driveing me crazy :sick: it just shuts off on me while im driving , i have to pull over and put it in park and hopefully it will start up again.....
Did some investigating and found out that what is happening is the anti-theft is not releasing control of the pcm because the pcm is not fully initiallizing due to a failed power on test. Sounds complicated but ultimately the problem is traced to a bad connector on the back of the Speedometer cluster. I took the dash board out (about 1 hour) reseated the connector, reinstalled (1 hour), and problem is much less frequent now (once every 6 month) which is solved with a hit on the dash.
Dealer says the wiring harness needs replacing but that is a joke.
Take care and good luck.
Yes, I believe the lines are stainless steel, but that material is not 100% rust proof, just rust resistant. Some exhaust systems (pipes) come from the factory made of stainless steel, but eventually they corrode, too.
I have a digital picture that I'd love to post, but not sure how to do that here. "Help" panel suggests that photos need to be part of a website (URL) that can be linked to. Photo is on my hard drive. Is there a way I can just copy and paste the image?
I was able to get up underneath the car well enough to shine a flashlight rearward above the fuel tank which afforded me a pretty good view of most of the run of the brake lines. Even after seven complete winters spent exclusively in the north east (NYC and Boston metro areas), I was unable to detect a single spot of corrosion anywhere on the brake lines.
Hmmm, I'm wondering if Chrysler changed the material for said brake lines between 1996 and 1998. Doesn't hardly seem likely as brake lines have been made of pretty tough stuff for decades but I suppose it's possible.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I have a 2003 Dodge Grand Caravan ES with 31,000 miles. Knock on wood, it has been very trouble free. I want it to stay that way so I asked my dealer if they recommend an auto trans service at 30,000. They said yes. They flush the fluid out and do not change the filter - cost is $140.
Dodge sends me service coupons every few months and they usually have one for an "Automatic Tranmission Tune-up service drain/replace" for $119 (was $89 on my jan 05 coupon). The coupon says they change the filter, install new fluid, make nec adjustments, etc...
I asked the tech advisor about the coupon and he said that it is not good for the "flush" service. I'd be interested in anyone's advice/experience. It's situations like this that make me think I should not listen to the dealer and just go by the manufacturer's service guidelines. Should I do the "flush", should I do the "drain" and get the filter replaced? Should I say the heck with it for now?
I hope my original post doesn't panic anyone. I wouldn't have said anything except the guy from NHTSA (DOT) said they had received similar complaints and were investigating the matter, so there must be some validity to the problem. It won't stop us from buying another Chrysler minivan, however. In fact, my wife is trying to use this incident as an excuse to get a new one with Stow 'n Go! I get this kind of nervous chuckle every time she says that...
1998 GC, 140K, stalls on slow (<10 mph) right hand turns, otherwise runs normal. Owned since new, no wrecks. Replaced plugs and wires, still stalls. Any ideas?
thanks
doug
If you check your brake lines you will see that the solid line is made of steel and it is welded to a stainless steel flex segment. The welding of dissimilar metals can cause crevice corrosion which can cause a brake line burst without warning.
I just sent the following letter to NHTSA;
Dr. Jeffrey W. Runge
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Administrator
400 7th Street, SW
Washington, DC 20590
August 22, 2005
Dr. Runge,
A review of the NHTSA complaint site indicates that Daimler Chrysler Corporation has a very serious safety defect or nonconformance that could result in a serious injury and or death. Daimler Chrysler has been notified of this defect/nonconformance on several occasions and continues to deny the problem.
The metal brake lines on the 1999 Dodge Caravan, Plymouth Voyager, and Chrysler Mini-Vans are welded with dissimilar metals. They have braided stainless steel flex segments that are welded to steel brake lines. This welding of dissimilar metals could cause corrosion of the steel brake lines and results in a brake line burst which occurs without any warnings.
We found five (5) complaints to NHTSA, on the Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) Complaint Site pertaining to the corrosion of Chrysler supplied brake lines which resulted in brake line bursts. There may be more that we didn't locate.
Ref: ODI Complaint Numbers - 10112174, 10121461, 10023409, 10087291, and 10125674.
Complaint Numbers 10103217, 10044433, and 10017536 may also be related to this same problem.
This complaint is very personal to us because my wife experienced a brake line burst in our 1999 Dodge Caravan. If the brake line burst occurred in heavy traffic and or at highway speed, it could have resulted in her death or serious injury. Ref: ODI Complaint # 10121461.
We notified Daimler Chrysler Corporation on several occasions by telephone and emails concerning this serious safety defect/nonconformance. They were apologetic about the mishap, however, they stated (1) that they had never had a complaint concerning brake line burst on any of their vehicles, (2) they had never issued a Service Bulletin or Recall, and (3) they could do nothing for me because the vehicle was out of warranty.
We are appalled by Daimler Chrysler's lack of concern on this serious safety issue and we believe that their lack of corrective action is criminal.
We am also upset because NHTSA, has had several complaints on this safety related defect/nonconformance and no action has been taken.
Do we have to have a DEATH before Daimler Chrysler Corporation or NHTSA investigates this serious safety defect or nonconformance?
What is the LIFE EXPECTANCY of these brake lines?
How do you stop a vehicle in heavy traffic or at highway speeds?
Is the consumer or manufacturer, responsible to prove that these brake lines are defective or nonconforming?
The Safety Recall Compendium issued by NHTSA (3rd Release, June 2001) clearly requires that,
When to Report (49 U.S.C. & 30118 and 49 CFR Part 573.5 b)
A manufacturer who has determined that a safety defect or noncompliance exists, must report such a determination to NHTSA within 5 working days. A manufacturer need not have identified the cause, scope, or remedy in order to make a determination that a safety defect or noncompliance exists, at least in some vehicles or items of motor vehicle equipment. If part of the information which is required to fully describe the recall is unknown, notification to the agency must still be made with the existing information within 5 working days. The remaining information is to be provided as it becomes available.
Who Should Report (49 U.S.C. & 30102 AND 30118: 49 CFR Parts 573.3 and 579)
Each manufacturer of a motor vehicle has recall responsibility for any safety-related defect or any noncompliance determined to exist in a vehicle or in any item of original equipment. The manufacturer of an item of motor vehicle equipment in which a safety defect or noncompliance is determined to exist (1) is responsible for notifying the vehicle manufacturer and (2) with respect to an item of replacement equipment (including tires), has recall responsibility for the equipment containing the safety defect or noncompliance. (49 CFR Part 579 "Defect and Noncompliance Responsibility".)
We understand that Daimler Chrysler Corporation has the same type brake line configuration in the 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000 models of their Dodge Caravan, Plymouth Voyager, and Chrysler Town & Country, Mini-Vans.
We also understand that a change was made on the 2001 models that removed the welded Stainless Steel Flex segment from the brake lines.
We have copies of emails sent to Daimler Chrysler Corporation concerning this complaint and also emails with their replies to us.
We also have a section of the original brake line that was removed from my 1999 Dodge Caravan. It can be made available to your testing facilities to analyze the cause of the defect/nonconformance. Ref: attached picture.
Please keep us informed as to your progress on this serious safety defect/nonconformance.
Maybe the duel master cylinder failed to engage because both lines burst at the same time. The duel master cylinder is great if it works!
Hmmm, not mine. I just checked the master cylinder end of the brake lines on both our 1998 and our 2003 3.8 GCs as well as the rear end of our 1998 (gas tank and back). Under fairly close inspection I didn't find a single place where two dissimilar types of metal were welded together. In fact, I didn't find a single place where there were any welds at all. The only place where I saw a transition from a "flex" format to "standard" tubing format was running off the master cylinder end on both vans (just one of the two lines), and in both cases the metal was the same material for the entire length simply with a section that was formed/extruded differently (the "flex" section).
Maybe I didn't look in the correct spot. Was it the front or the rear braking circut? Where exactly am I supposed to look for the welds? When you wrote "They have braided stainless steel flex segments that are welded to steel brake lines.", did you really mean "Braided" lines? I ask because I've never seen a single braided high pressure line anywhere on either of our Caravans.
FWIW, the master cylinder ends were quite different between the two vans. That said, based upon my quick "look-see" the differences were due to the fact that the 2003 has the full ABS and Traction Control treatment while the 1998 only has ABS.
Best Regards,
Shipo
vankings
Thanks.
Best Regards,
Shipo