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By the way I experienced that same vibration driving over a very low curb a couple of days ago with the brake on. I assumed it was the ABS kicking in. I hope that's all it was.
Those who've done it suggest the following steps in this order:
1. Grippier tires, or grippier tires and 17" wheels.
2. Sport rear anti-sway bar.
3. Sport springs.
4. Sport shocks.
Number 1 can be had from Tire Rack (and many other places.) Number 2 from your Audi dealer. Number three from your Audi dealer and other sources. I'm not sure if your Audi dealer can offer number 4, but there are several manufacturers who make sport shocks for the car.
Each of these steps evidently yields incremental benefits in handling. Depending on the combination they will also change the ride. Depending on your preference, you might find it either harsher or just better controlled. If you follow the steps in this order it allows you to see if each step suffices or more is required. This lets you minimize expense. It also allows you to add to what you've already done if you choose to allocate more money to this objective.
I ordered, from Joe Hoppen morotsports, an Audi S8 suspension kit (the car already had 17" wheels and 225 x 55 tires). I replaced the stock tires with Pirelli PZero's size 245 x 45 x 17" had the dealer install the complete S8 suspension and perform 2 all-wheel alignments 1,000 miles apart. Then I added a "sport" air cleaner -- the car "hunkered down" handled and rode better and made sweet sounds from under the hood when pressed.
Total cost of all the above about $3,000 (suspension, labor, tires, more labor, air cleaner) -- this car had the 5spd non-tiptronic auto, and the tip upgrade was an additional $2750 -- I did not do this mod however.
What I did, perhaps cost between $500 and $1000 more than it could have had I chosen to go with non-Audi parts. The suspension kit came in an Audi box with German writing on it -- other companies make "after-market" upgrades that are reputedly very good. Joe Hoppen -- who sold both -- advocated factory parts. My Audi dealer did all the work and I never had any issues, other than improved ride, handling and performance. And, I had the comfort seats that came with the car -- not the sport seats that timcar doesn't care for.
I have a feeling my wife will think the Q is too ponderous, despite her love of gadgetry. She'll find the LS elegant, and it is, but at $58K, not nearly equipped as the Audi. The Q and LS have better color options and higher rated stereos. As of today, I'd rate the Audi and Lexus as a toss up.
I know the Audi includes maintenance but I've had no probems in my 31 months with my GS400 and 43,000 miles. I keep going back and forth. It's my decision, but maybe my wife's non-automotive opinion may make me think of something I've missed.
I had the 540i in the mix but they just raised the price and I can't get over the gas guzzler penalty. My wife has never been in an Audi before. I drove an '01 4.2 about a month ago. I'd appreciate any words of wisdom. I'm on specification overload.
I've gone through the same exercises with mostly the same cars(no interest in the Q, though).
The A6 4.2 is presently at the top of my list, but I am disappointed with the lack of an integated phone and the crummy stereo. I'm thinking either Ming or Silver but neither thrills me. I plan to lease my car for three years so the bad resale value and the reliability issue are not concerns.
I nixed the E320 4matic due to upcoming style change, no in-dash cd, and lousy seats. I liked the vault-like feel and the ride, and the special edition gives you a lot of goodies, if you like black or silver.
The BMW 5 series is fun to drive but it's a bit too small for me, plus I want to avoid putting snows on if I can. Lease rates are attractive though. Interior is so-so.
I was a bit disappointed in the LS 430. I previously owned an LS 400, so I am familiar with the car. The Mark Levinson stereo is phenominal. Best I've ever heard, but the standard wheels look cheap to me, as do the console and controls. The touch screen Nav looks like a $35 video game, but is very easy to use. Otherwise, the interior, fit, finish and ride are superb.
Bottom line for me: all great cars; can't go wrong with any of them; but none of them thrill me the way some of my previous cars have. And I'm bummed about that.
Good luck. Let us know.
Now, I want something different. I can swing the LS430, but I'm bugged that a $58K vehicle is still $10,000 shy of being loaded. On Christmas Eve, I'm leaning to the 4.2. They want $1700, before negotiating, to paint it in S6 Atlas Gray.
We'll see what shakes out this weekend.
When you have set your primary goals, check out the cars and see if anyone works to your satisfaction, according to your criteria. Decision should be relatively simple. Good luck. BTW, it won't be necessarily easy, but mine was: Audi 2.7T 6M. Drive safely, and enjoy yourself. Mario
Q45--Pros: Not a lot on the road. Most features for the price. Everything conceivable for $60K MSRP. Largest interior--stereo on par with MLevinson. 18" wheels--out of the mold interior design.
Cons--exterior styling unusual. Trunk disproportionately small. Needs to be in sport mode all the time. Identity crisis.
LS430-Pros: Fit/finish/exterior color choices/size/trunk/reliability/Levinson package/image.
Cons--at $59K, only options are MLEVINSON pckg and 17inch wheels. At this price, I'm still not getting ten grand in options. Lexus in Illinois not willing to deal liberally. OK exterior styling.Ugly wheels.
A6 4.2
Pros--most car, fully loaded for $57000 (including special color). Quattro/driveability/maintenance included
Cons--reliability? conservative interior styling/modest sound system
Since I'm leasing, residual value means something. BMW is subsidizing big time--THESE three are not. Styling will hold. LS is in 2nd model year, Infiniti in year 1 and Audi has 2-3 years left in the cycle.
I filled the tank, reset all the computer modes and took off. About 4 hours later with speeds as high at 90mph -- the computer said 25.4 mpg and 66 mph. Used half a tank (the 4.2 has a bigger tank than a 2.7T -- at least in 2001 model).
While I hardly consider these Audis "economy cars" -- I also believe you can get good milage from them if you drive "steady as she goes." But the heck of it is, they are so much fun to push, you can really suck the gas.
If you can control your urge to surge -- I think you will not find the A6 2.7 or 4.2 is a gas hog!
Slurp slurp.
I bought the car in February and have averaged 20.3 mpg over almost 11,000 miles. This includes a mix of highway travel and frequent trips of about 20 miles over New England two lane roads - average speed in the 30s. Numbers are based on recorded miles and gas purchases from my notebook.
The car, even at highway speeds is capable of such milage, was my point.
I assure you all that my "normal" milage is -- depending on two things: #1 how much in town driving and #2 how much "urge" I ask for from the car -- between 17 and 22 mpg. Typical mpg is generally around 20+ -- and I consider that good for a relatively heavy car with a 300HP 4.2L V8.
The 1.8T engine is, IMO, very miserly -- but is not available in an A6 -- I have no clue as to the milage of the 3.0 V6.
1) i called 3 Lexus dealers (Very Competitive Chicago market). I asked about an extended test drive--without a sales guy breathing down my throat. i've got a license and, I probably know more about their merchandise than they do. They ALL said no!! They'd make a sales associate available for about an hour! My long-term driving won't involve a sales associate.
2) I tried the same with Audi. This was with 2 dealers where I had established a dialogue. One hasn't returned my two calls (six hours) and the other said his 4.2 hadn't been PDI'd yet. Isn't that done at the port nowadays?
3) I walked into an Infiniti dealer cold and they're giving me the car (Q45-premium pck) from Saturday through Monday. This may be a by-product of real slow movement, but they were professional, attentive and polite.
Also--Lexus is booking a 52% residual for 36 months. Infiniti is at 57%. As the lessee, I could care less about who's liberal or conservative--the Infiniti brings in a lower number.
If dealers treat prospective customers with such disinterest, what will they do post-sale, when I need service?
Very discouraging--and surprising.
Perhaps a more relevant statistic is "range". With a fuel capacity exceeding eighteen (18) gallons, four hundred (400) miles between stops is quite feasible. However, since I am good for barely three (3) hours, I have not yet tested this theory.
I took a back road -- much less traffic I thought. I was correct on the traffic -- but did not anticipate that I would just sit there watching four or five cars spinning their wheels, unable to move over the very slightest of inclines. No salt trucks in sight, cars fishtailing and those that could move making U turns to avoid the afforementioned inclines.
Well, my ABS pulsed and my ESP light HAD flashed a couple of times but I had no reason to believe that I could not move even though I knew I had to have long stopping distantces.
So, I pulled left and passed all of them -- the sight was an Audi A6 'walking' briskly up the hill passing four cars with their wheels spinning. And, remember the A6 4.2 w/sport has 255 x 40 x 17" tires (in my case Yoko AVS db's -- but not snow tires).
As I passed them, they were checking out the car as if to say "how is he doing that?"
Quattro to the rescue -- I am now even more impressed with this technology. The icy conditions were the worst I have ever had the "pleasure" to drive upon.
Thank goodness I made it home unscathed.
Though I only sat in it, I was underwhelmed. Seven or eight months in my beautiful vanilla/royal 2.7T interior had jaded me. Despite press to the contrary, the materials looked and felt more plasticky and far inferior compared to those in my A6 interior. And I found the interior aesthetic too much like something from a video game. The ergonomics of an A6 interior are very good. Those in the Q were gimmicky and less intuitive. Though I'll take others word for it; the interior of the Q didn't feel any larger than my A6's.
As I said, I didn't drive it, but it's surprising that most road test results show its performance and handling as underachieving. When I first started driving the 2.7T, I was impressed by its solid and substantial feeling compared to the Japanese cars I'd been driving, including a Legend. (And the A6 sure isn't a light-weight.) Having lived with this now for almost a year, I think this difference alone would make going back to Japanese cars somewhat difficult.
The Lexus division of Toyota has fine cars. But to my eye, they're all afflicted with frumpiness, inside and out. This is particularly severe on the new LS430. But that's just my opinion.
Still when you compare the all-weather capability, beauty, value and driving pleasure of the A6 to the other candidates, it is for me no contest. The only areas where Lexus and Infiniti are on average clearly superior are dealer service and residuals. This is because both brands focused on these aspects from the ground up and have maintained them.
So, as usual, it's a matter of priorities and personal preference
As much as I love Audi's, I think they are indeed very vulnerable -- or at least potentially so. Here is my "concern" -- when I read about all the cars that are shopped and discussed on this board, I remain generally confused. For example, I find it impossible to compare a BMW 5 series OF ANY pedigree to any (theoretically comparable) A6 quattro. The key differentiator, IMO, is quattro. If you want to look at a BMW 5xx car, I do not have any problems -- but I just can't get how an Audi 2.7T with a sport package and a couple of option packages can be compared to the 530 (where the A6 resides in price). I have driven these cars, virtually back to back -- and the ONLY conditions where the BMW brings a smile to my face is on a bright, sunny and DRY pavement day. And, even then, the 2.7T is a "more spirited" performer. Comparing a 530 to an A6 3.0 quattro might be "more fair" but that darn price thing gets in the way and the 530 just seems soooo expensive (when compared to the A6 3.0 quattro).
OK, enough background.
The concern comes in when you think -- "what if BMW would offer AWD on the 5 series?" There is, I admit it, a certain "cache" to a BMW that currently Audi does not enjoy (in the US, at least). If the BMW could equal the performance of the Audi quattro (which it currently cannot) wouldn't BMW begin to nibble at Audi's lunch (in the US, that is)? I know several people who have gone into an Audi dealer "kicking and screaming" for a test drive -- i.e., they were certain the BMW would be better -- only to drive away in a new Audi.
So, you see, if Audi's competitors start making cars that would truly compete, Audi might be in trouble, IMO.
That is my issue.
P.S. Comparing the A6 quattro to the AWD Jaguar, Volvo and Mercedes -- now that makes sense. But, what Toyota or Lexus or, Infinity or Acura is a reasonable comparison vehicle, if one ever drives in a spirited fashion on not absolutely perfect pavement?
I appear to be a chorus of 1 (or perhaps 2, including Tim) but I can't even conceive that the quattro feature alone will not convey enough:
1. benefits over the LS and Q,
2. reasons to believe the benefits are real, and
3. product differentiation -- the A6 4.2 is so different, that is,
to render the comparison "fair" other than financially speaking. In other words you are, IMO, comparing a fine wine to a fine Scotch whiskey. They are both beverages to be sure, but they are not, generally speaking, comparable. Why not compare the LS and Q to a Mercedes (either E and/or S class) with a 4.3 engine or compare the LS and Q to a BMW 7 series.
Again, from a performance standpoint -- perhaps not sheer luxury -- the A6 4.2 is incomparable (to the LS and Q). Note that I didn't say I thought the Audi was superior (for you). I just say that the Audi will "run rings around" the cars you have chosen to compare it to.
My final three will all lease between $825-$850/mo for 36/39 with taxes paid up front(horrible tax penalty in Illinois). They're all v8's which touch or exceed 300HP. My last two cars were the Q(95) and GS400(99) and both were dependable. The Q was a winter pig, but I didn't put snows on them. The GS with Blizzak WS50's has been a capable winter performer.
I would have considered the A6 in 99, but it only had the 2.8 at the time. There are more similarities between the LS and Q. From a "sporting" perspective, I've eliminated all but the 4.2.. From a saloon ride, I've eliminated all but the LS. As a compromise candidate, the Q rounds out the group. I'll get snow tires with my choice, even if it's the 4.2.
what has reliability been like with the v8 audis' ?
anyone out there with any experience with the a8 or s8 ?
In the guru's own words, he's only recently (and rarely, in terms of miles driven, IMHO) been shown in spades the real value of quattro. Most of the rest of the time, it's a "peace of mind" issue -- well, you've got it if/when you need it. Okay.
The reality is that many people looking for a performance sedan care more about 50/50 front/rear weight distribution than they do about four-wheel propulsion when one or more of the drive wheels lacks traction. If you're willing and/or able to drift a car around a corner, that front-to-rear weigh/traction thing is a pretty big deal, even if only two wheels are driving. Granted, the number of Audi drivers who routinely (or ever) perform a four-wheel drift could probably hold a meeting in a phone booth, but reality rarely intrudes into these discussions. In a perfect world, we could buy a vehicle with 50/50 (more-or-less) weight distribution AND AWD. Audi doesn't do it, nor does BMW.
Until that's available (with reliability that makes outliving the warranty something less that a horror show), I'll stick with 51/49 weight distribution and cheer on those who would produce the perfect performance sedan.
Stay tuned.
At the Audi driving school (and I repeat, I know they receive their paychecks from Audi), the instructors (who have not exclusively driven and raced Audi quattros -- indeed most of the instructors who are or were "win place or show" competition drivers at LeMans, Grand Prix, Pike's Peak, Motorcross, Cross Country, etc etc) claim they "used" to be fans of RWD vehicles because they can be induced into a "power slide" -- i.e., they can be put into an oversteer attitude. They claim (and wish that it were available) that an AWD vehicle with balanced F&R weight distribution would be ideal. However, in both the "classroom" portion of the course and on the "track" the instructors proclaim the superiority of AWD (and of course are quick to say "quattro" AWD).
In January 2001, Walter Rohr (sp?) was our "guest star" instructor. Over the years he has been affiliated with Porsche and Audi (and I believe other mfgs.) He took a quattro up Pike's Peak and set a record. He raced quattros (and AWD Porches) and often won -- or at least finished in the top three, often being bested by other AWD Audi's or Porche's. AWD (Audi) was "banned" for a time from competing because the cars often bested their RWD competitors. While originally not forbidden, quattros were said to have an unfair advantage in such competitions.
As they say, race on Sunday, sell on Monday -- Audi cars are not SUV's or merely utilitarian -- in spite of my personal glee at successfully scaling an ice covered hill, passing other FWD and RWD and even a Toyota SUV (the allroad may be the exception as it is marketed as an SUV "alternative.") The quattro system is a real world system, that may -- in the best driver's hands be bettered by an equal weight balanced RWD car. Most of us are good drivers. We drive in the real world. Dry, wet, snowy or icy -- quattro has an edge.
And, when the best "race" or professional drivers "race" quattros (or AWD Porches) they often win, too.
So, while I do think a balanced AWD (quattro or similar system) car would be "ideal" -- the Audi, today at least, still offers the best "overall performance" on the freeways, highways and roads that most of us in North America and Europe drive on regularly.
anyway, it's now again. did i read in the manual that you can reset the light? and does anyone have any idea why this happened again? signal of something worse? I'm getting an "OK" signal on the display.
besides that..five months in and wow..first audi..won't be my last.
Thanks and Happy New Year.
"AUDI ALLROAD My test car's sticker was an eye-rolling $47,850, but many luxury utilities cost that much without delivering a fraction of the driving enjoyment. This sort-of S.U.V., based on the A6 wagon, is what I'd want to drive in Aspen."
Of course, they also said this: "Great cars, of course, need not be expensive. The comfort and manners of a $13,000 Ford Focus compare favorably with those of some cars that cost twice as much. It is hard to beat the driving satisfaction of the BMW 3-Series, which starts at $25,000. I can't think of a better all- around car — at any price — than the BMW 5-Series, at $33,000 and up."
Enjoy the rest of the holiday season. Cheers! Mario
Infiniti Q45-- a dazzling technology lab on wheels. Sumptuous interior. As we pulled up to light, my wife said, "look,there's a Q45 in burgundy." It was a Hyundai Sonata. I really didn't like the exterior looks. I also thought the trunk was woefully inadequate. The right seemed relatively precise for a large car--but it always felt like a large car. We have eliminated the Q.
Lexus LS430--elegant, tight, impeccable fit and finish. Seemed to provide a tighter ride than the Q. MLevinson sound system was good--but I don't see the need for excitement. My life loved the Black Cherry Pearl color. Dealership is close, long service hours, free loaners, car washes, etc.. Lexus reliability--I drive one now. The Lexus is in the hunt.
A6 4.2--I drove an 01 model. I thought my 99GS400 was fun to drive. This care blows it completely away. It's a 540i without the bone crushing bumps. It makes those beautiful gutteral sounds. The A6 is still alive. We'll see what the $$ look like. It will be a fully loaded A6 vs a modestly equipped LS430. The only faults I found with the Audi--if you can call them faults were: 1) It seemed like I dropped way down to enter the vehicle (I thought my butt was at ground level) and 2) No remote fuel door-at least on the 01 I drove--and the gas cap was tethered and just hung there.
The Atlas Gray paint would retail around $13-1500, although I think I could get it priced on a par with Pearlescent White Pearl. No other mods-- I can't get the S6 silver interior or the grey burled walnut. My order would the Atlas/Platinum/Dk Walnut.
a6 versus ls430 is a very difficult, yet fortunate, dilemma to have to resolve. good luck in your continued search.
You might want to check the 2002 model to see how its cap is designed.
Happy New Year to all!
I place the order this weekend and look to a May delivery. I gave the edge to Lexus on reliability, leg room, cargo capacity, comfort and image. I gave Audi the edge in interior layout, drive system, exterior design,fun to drive, and inclusion of maintenance.
Thanks again and Happy new Year everyone.
Reasons:
1--Exterior style
2--Dash layout
3--5 series is in last year of current design
4--Audi still rides "German" but less bone-jarring than the BMW
5--Don't know where you live, but if bad weather is an issue, quattro can't be discounted.
6--If you line up the A6 3.0 v 530i, you probably get more for your money with the A6
7--Both include maintenance.
For a lot of folks that participate in the edmunds town hall, well I would guess that we would qualify as enthusiasts -- and we probably (!) have very strong opinions -- you may too. Here is my take on the spirit of what is often said about Audis by folks on this forum and by the editors of magazines like Car and Driver, Car, and European Car -- but not Consumer Reports:
1. The BMW probably is or has "the best" in (pick one, based on the model you are looking into) acceleration, handling, braking, transmission, stereo system.
2. The Audi is often discussed as a whole -- and the conclusions are often that the BMW does "X" better but the Audi (in the real world) is the car that would be chosen due to the fact that it does virtually everything competently. When you put all the pieces together, the Audi inspires confidence that it will outperform the BMW -- even though the BMW may "out accelerate" or "out corner" or have a better seat warmer (or whatever the writer or editor is focused on at that moment).
After so many Audis in our garage, our "deal breaker," must have feature (the one that provides the most benefit and enjoyment) is quattro -- even the BMW's all wheel drive system (currently not on the 5 series) would be an improvement IMO over the current set up offered on a 5.
Now, to hopefully not be "beaten up" verbally, I qualify this by saying "perhaps" if the roads were always clear and dry and the weather was a constant 70F and traffic was never heavier than moderate -- perhaps -- the lack of quattro in the BMW would make it a contender.
The BMW is fun to drive, I have never NOT enjoyed my extended test drives in one -- and my wife owned a 1988 325ix for almost 3 years (but then again it had AWD) -- but day in day out, the performance, confidence (and safety) and value of an A6 2.7T vs a 530 or an A6 4.2 vs a 540 makes the choice for me. From a price point, it would seem that you should compare the A6 2.7T and the BMW 530 -- not the A6 3.0 to the 530. The A6 3.0 is less expensive and would be, IMO, not a proper comparison vehicle (because of the $ diff.)
One editor said something like the following, ". . .while not a clear winner in any category, the Audi is greater than the sum of its parts [sic]." That pretty well sums it up for a lot of us participants on this forum.
At this very moment, Pete can probably regail you with his process and how he arrived at the Audi A6 4.2 buy decision.