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I have had my car less than 2 weeks, but have driven about 600 miles. The sticker price on my car was $48,275. At that price, I expect things to be darn near perfect. This car could not be further from it!! QUALITY! RELIABILITY! NOT!!!!! I drove mine home from the dealer at 1 a.m. (last customer). I parked in my drive way. When I went to leave for work just 7 hours later, the car started, then died 5 seconds later. It took 3 more tries before there were even any electrical components working. Then spent the whole day turning off the turn signals with the remote key control because the lights kept flashing every 20 minutes or so. Took it back to dealer that night (less than 24 hours after picking it up) to see what all this was about. Turned out there was a "loose relay" or cable in the engine compartment. The driver side dial for the seat heater won't budge yet the seat is being heated. The first button on the radio used for station pre-sets as well as other functions (like working the CD player) is extremely difficult to push in and will probably break very shortly. There is an annoying vibration and sound that comes from the gas pedal when you have turned the car on and put the vehicle into gear and start to move. I had this checked out 9 days after picking up the car. Turns out after driving another 2.7T with only 16 miles on the odometer, that they all have this!!! Squeaks and odd sounds abound. The brake pedal makes a squishy sound every time it is depressed. The doors squeak every time they are opened or closed (they do close with a nice solid sound however and feel substantial). The engine is no where as smooth at idle as a Lexus, you feel the vehicle vibrate at idle. The sports suspension transmits every pebble into the cabin. The sport seats which come with the sport suspension are very narrow and hurt your hind end very quickly (they do hold you in place very nicely during sporty driving however). The navigation system while accurate is ridiculous especially at over $1,300. No full size spare with the sport package. The dealer I leased the car from also sold BMW's. I REALLY, REALLY, now wish I had gotten the 530i like my friend who accompanied me was trying to convince me to do!! Thank GOD for the all inclusive Audi warranty!! I can see I will be making very good use of it. I am extremely disappointed in the car and in Audi.
It should be noted that every vehicle, from BMW's to Chevy's, goes through dealer prep. It is obvious that your dealer does not believe in that stage of the delivery process.
Jay: if you have no objection to telling us: what is the name of your dealer?
Best of luck in resolving the other issues - these would have me just as upset as you are.
P.S. For the ride quality consider asking the dealer to swap out your performance tires for some all seasons, or consider lowering your air pressures just a bit.
Due to an unfortunate event, I had to move quickly on acquiring a vehicle. The dealer performed a search over the course of 2 days for a vehicle configured as I wanted (which didn't include the Nav system) but could not find one anywhere, or so I was told. The vehicle I acquired was on their lot, and had all the options I wanted and more (the Nav system). I did want the Sport package from the get go after reading about the car over the past 3 years. All indications were that the A6 deserved a tighter suspension and better tires to better complement the engine and chassis. My complaint about feeling every pebble may be due to the car I had before, a 1994 Infiniti J30, felt very isolated in contrast. I realize that it will take me some time to adjust to the different driving/handling dynamics of the A6 vs. my old J30. I admit I am knit-picking about the lack of a full size spare. With the 24 hour road-side assistance, it is somewhat of a mute point.
My Mom's complaints so far are that thing with the transmission which I mentioned above, the steering, & she thinks the suspension is too soft. I told her originally she should have gotten a 2.7T with SP, but hey, what do I know?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
We have a 2000 2.7t and a 2002 A6 3.0. The suspension of the 3.0 is noticeable firmer than the 1999 A6 2.8 which preceded it. However, I find it acceptable, especially on rough New England roads. While the steering may be over boosted to some, it is less so than the 1999, and comparable to our 2.7t.
As for the hunting transmission: once again my impression is formed by the 1999: that was worse, in this regard, because the tiptronic was constantly trying to keep the engine in its power band. Without question, there is less hunting with the 2002 3.0; the 2.7t is better yet.
May I suggest that you experiment with the "Sport" mode. It upshifts at higher rpm, and also holds a gear for a longer period of time, absent light throttle, that is.
Regarding the problem child 2.7t we have been discussing. I concur, unequivocally, that defects of any significance should have been dealt with by Audi, prior to importation.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
But the things Jay mentions that are beyond personal preferences must be remedied -- indeed as far as he knew they should never have been an issue period.
On to the "it doesn't make it right or any less unacceptable, but such problems are not limited to Audi's" comment. It is an unfortunate fact that every car manufacturer brings a lemon to the marketplace from time to time. Some of the reports from posters who quote CR and JD Powers etc. would lead you to believe that Audi's are crap (or perhaps that the conclusions one may reach when reading such surveys include that Audi's are unreliable).
It has been said so many times before by many of us that we wish our Audi's (and our dishwashers, TV's etc) were more reliable. That still stands.
Jay's horror story (perhaps a bit dramatic) is unfortunate and unacceptable -- but his dealer is apparently striving to fix the problems. None of this is meant to let Audi or his dealer have a pass -- yet in perspective it still appears that the large majority of posters here on this town hall actually are pleased with their cars.
And that is the point -- Jay deserves to be "made whole" (on the problem areas not the suspension and spare tire and seats) -- but overall we need to remember that we (on this town hall) basically like our Audis -- some are even passionate in their "joy" in owning and driving these machines.
Thanks-Max
One item you've described surprised me in particular. I have an '01 2.7T, and have driven a 2000 and a couple of other '01's, as well as an '02 3.0. I've not encountered the gas pedal vibration and noise you describe in any of them. It is incorrect for your dealer to describe this as normal, and incredible they actually found another car that exhibits this. After spending TOO much time both here and on Audi World, I don't think I've every heard anyone describe this particular problem before. Very sorry.
I'm also sorry the sport seats aren't to your liking. I don't fit them, so I can't offer a direct comparison. I can say though that having read many posts, after a few months, they evidently do grow softer and more accommodating. I certainly hope you find that to be true.
The 3.0, as compared to it predecessor, the 2.8, is a revelation: much better torque, top end power, etc. The seat of the pants feel is even more remarkable: this engine, if marketed against the BMW in line 6's of a few years ago, would have compared more than favorably. However, your question relates to the 2.7t.
The 2.7t still has the edge in torque, especially below 3000 rpm. On the other hand, the difference is not dramatic. This would be even more valid if manual transmissions were utilized in each car; I would choose the non turbo 3.0, in that case. My expectation is that Audi is well aware that the turbo requires a greater measure of performance to justify its price and, to some extent, the lesser fuel economy. Accordingly, we all expect the next incarnation of the turbo to be at least 10% up scale as regards both horsepower and torque. The bottom line: the 3.0 is underrated by many; it has the added advantage of forcing Audi to increase performance of both the turbo and 4.2.
As to your suspension inquiry: this is very subjective. While I have been to a few driving schools, I have never driven an Audi any place other than the street. Few of us have had Mark's experience on the track. Further, suspension evaluations are a function of both how and where you drive. In my case, the latter is New England. Consequently, how a vehicle handles mediocre roads is important to yours truly. That being said, my opinion is:
The 2002 3.0 is much closer to the suspension of the 2.7t than was its predecessor ( in our case a 1999). However, one must factor in the single biggest change that can be made to a car's ride and handling: tires. Stock, the 3.0 came with 55 series profile (16"), as opposed to the 45's (17") that are on the 2.7t. While still a capable handler, the 3.0, so equipped, was less responsive than the 2.7t. In order to compare apples to apples (love those fruity comparisons), I switched wheels and tires to 45 series Michelin Pilots. Since I am not Mario Andretti (I am taller), I literally cannot discern a difference in the handling capabilities of the two cars.
In the past, I have experimented, with brands other than Audi, with shorter springs and higher performance shocks. I have found that the advantage gained was not equal to the detriment to ride and handling on poor roads. While others on this board seem to have had a degree of success with such alterations, I would caution anyone to proceed with caution; make one change at a time, starting with tires. If it is of any interest, a Porsche factory rep told me that the suggested handling upgrade for the non turbo 911's was a switch to 18 inch wheels and tires; customers who went the full route (springs, shocks, etc) were largely dissatisfied. A larger percentage actually switched back, at a significant cost. The prime complaint: lousy ride, even for a sports car, and poor handling around bumpy curves.
In any event (sorry to digress), I contend that the 3.0 is a genuine alternative for the A6 buyer. It has good acceleration and fuel economy, reasonable weight, and, while a capable handler in its stock configuration, is easily upgraded via the wheel and tire route.
One last thing and, arguably, the most important: my wife really likes it.
in Germany a v10 bi-turbo diesel with 313 HP and 551 lbs ft torque from 1800 rpm!!! yowzza ...
Even though i dont care for the honda crv look , i think its quite nicer than the Porsche Cayenne. How come we never get the good stuff ??
DL
"inside information" has it that the 2003 A6 Avant will be "available" with a 2.7T engine. I do not know if this means it will ONLY be available with this engine. And although I got this information from a reliable source, it remains unofficial.
Assuming for one instant that this IS true -- this would appear to be evidence that the 2.7T lives on (at least for another year). In these days of more HP, more torque, more more more -- I wonder if the "unknowing" public will be impressed by a smallish engine with "only" 250 HP (although I know they will be if they drive one!)
What's really got me wondering -- what's coming in 2004 model year?
The vehicle has lots of get up and go, cruises nice at 100+mph, and the quattro system has worked well,especially here in MN. winters. Spacious trunk area, it is amazing what can be hauled in this car! The downsides are fairly poor gas mileage, 17-19 (in town), 21-23(highway), mandatory use of premium fuel and a slight restriction on the driver's right legroom. The space is fairly narrow, but it does make you feel like you are in a "cockpit". The driver's seating /legroom area does have a nice, secure,tight, "sports car" feel to driving the vehicle. No long dash or "peering" over the bonnet of a car like the Chrysler 300 for example.
I haven't driven the '02A63.0 so I can't compare to the 2.7T, but if finances are an issue, I believe the 2.7T is $5,000 more. In '00, I paid $42,500 including most options except Nav, 6-disc (in trunk), warm weather pkg. I feel the Xenon lights and Bose option were important enough to pay extra for.I absolutely hate driving a car w/standard halogens after driving the Audi!
If a fully equipped 3.0 is actually $5,000 less than a comparable 2.7T, I personally would lean towards the 3.0. They sound like very similar cars! I only bought the 2.7T in '00 because the 2.8 standard A6 (at the time) was such an "dog" in the performance area!
However, we're coming up to the end of the model year. A left over '01 is basically a two-year-old car at this point. IMHO, the only way it would make sense is if it were below dealer invoice. Even then, I'd be very wary of any car that's been on a dealer's lot for two years and has 145 miles on the odo. I have to wonder why. I'd even check to make sure it was never titled.
2002 A6 3.0 quattro in Polar White with Convenience pkg; Premium pkg; Preferred Luxury pkg; Bose Premium Sound System and 16" Wine Glass Cast Alloy Wheels. MSRP is given at $42,375, was given price of $40,345.
Good deal or not???
Need to hear from all you great folks on this since I have to make several thousand dollars of cost over my company provided benefit out of my own pocket in a lump sum when I pick up the car. Also, how many miles should I expect and what discount can I get if car has been used as test driver, I personally drove it a couple times over last two months for 15-20 miles each time.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
True Cost to Own (TCO): Revealing the Hidden Costs of Car Ownership
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/59897/article.html
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2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
For 2003 -- and I am speaking of the allroad in this case -- more colors become available, but when you order heated seats you only get front seats heated and no steering wheel heat. These may seem to be little things -- and in terms of money they are -- which baffles me and pisses me off. Why not say "rear seat heaters $150 -- and have a package deal that allows you to purchase seat heaters and steering wheel heaters, etc etc."
So, I tried to order a 2002 -- na baby na -- too late. So IF I move forward with a 2003, I have to take less content. And the content was told to me too late to make a decision.
Anyway the 2003's are the only ones able to be ordered. I suspect that as each day passes the window for ordering 02's is closing. But from another point of view, why would you order an 02 when you could get an 03 in the same time frame (approximately)? Even if the '03's MSRP is up a percent or two, the lease price on an 03 will be less than an 02 (residuals, you know).
I am so miffed that Audi seems to be nickle and diming the customer. I mean for pity's sake if you are buying a car (the Audi Family) that generally ranges in price from $30,000 to $80,000 (the allroad would be $51,000) why would you care if the heated steering wheel was $50 more? I understand that. What I don't understand is the reduction in content as we move forward -- but the real crime, the real disservice is the removal of CHOICE! What the heck are they thinking?
It ALMOST makes me want to shop another brand -- I said almost.
Grrrrrr!
PS -- the 2003 TT will have an automatic transmission (180HP version only) available too!
PS2 -- the 2003 A6 Avant will offer a 2.7T for the first time.
A few questions: (1) The dealer doesn't know when the phone will be available. Has anyone heard? (2) One of the reasons I picked the beige interior was the light Sycamore wood trim. This car has the dark burled walnut, which looks almost black in low light. This is not what the catalog said it would have, and the dealer says this is the first beige interior he's seen with the walnut. He's investigating swapping the trim. Has anyone had this done? Is it likely to create interior rattles from pulling off door and dash panels to remove the current trim? (3) Most recent sport packages have had the new Dunlop 9000S tires, which are supposed to be particularly good in rain. My car has the earlier ContiContactSports, which Tire Rack user surveys say are noisy, wear quickly, and don't stick in the rain. Anyone have any comparative experience between these two tires? I'm putting SSR semi-solid forged wheels on as summer wheels and would have a good opportunity to switch the tires if it's worth it. (I'd probably go to Bridgestone S-03 Pole Positions . . . Tire Rack's top-rated max performance tire.)
(2)Changing out the door/dash panels is a nightmare.I had it done on my '89 Audi 100 to facilitate a 12-disc cd player in the trunk. The panels had to be taken out and then re-installed after the CD/speakers/amplifier were wired up.They never fitted properly,I did have rattles and parts of the interior were never aligned correctly.Those panels were not made to come out again,IMO.This is why it is so devastating to have an auto accident where the interior is damaged (on these cars). The Audi Dealer lists 1 or 2 body shops that have enough experience to deal w/complexities of the Audi!
(3)As far as tires, one of the main reasons I went w/2.7T was because of the summer/winter tire changeover on the A64.2. I just didn't want to deal w/storing/changing tires. All I can tell you is that the Conti's on the 2.7T seem to be okay for the "average" driver.I'm sure the tires you are looking at will greatly outperform the Conti's. The Conti's are quiet at all speeds,however.
I note in the 2002 brochure that Audi seems to have moved away from their Atmospheres shtick that was such a big deal in '98 and '99. Now it's just beige, etc., and sycamore.
I currently use Michelins, exclusively (winter tires, also). The reason is quite pragmatic: I was tired of defective rubber from several manufacturers. I asked the Tire Rack consultants which brand had the lowest defect/warranty rates; the answer was "Michelin", by a wide margin. I realize that his may offend some who are looking for the ultimate in performance; I used to be of that mind set. However, I find the Pilots and Arctic-Alpins fully satisfactory.
Being north of "40", I must be getting old.
Help...
So, I do indeed want a very reliable car and I would like the "peace of mind" that knowing the car will go 150,000 without a major overhaul -- but, for now, I want a new car every other model year (or two at most).
My buddy's Honda or Acura (fraternal twin car) is a 1995 or 1996 with six figures of miles on it. It seems to run ok, but that is its only redeeming quality. It does not ride well, is not particularly a good performer, the stereo sucks, the tires roar and the transmission (auto) shifts so hard it causes whiplash. But the car is to the nines reliable -- I'll grant it that.
I would be bored to tears with it. I'd pay to get rid of it.
My wife has a button (the kind you may wear on your lapel) it says "life is too short to drink boring beer" (or words to that effect). Life is too short to drive boring cars -- I don't care how long they last. If they bore, I've wasted more than money, I've wasted my life.
BTW, my friend with the 8 year old Acura, thinks cars are necessary evils, cost too much and wishes, I am certain, that we had public transportation exclusively. He thinks I am nuts to get rid of a 33K 2001 Audi A6 4.2 for a 2003 allroad.
Takes all kinds. . . which is my way of saying, MY way is right for ME, maybe, maybe not for you.
P.S. I drove a 2002 A4 2.5 turbo diesel quattro with all the toys and a 6spd manual -- I don't know if it would get into the MB bragging rights hall of fame class for longentivity -- BUT, it would be a great car, and I'd get one if they were imported to our side of the pond.
I would make sure I'm happy w/ the "quirks" of the CVT, (I haven't driven one), I've heard there is a "sluggishness or lag" off the line.
Just for kicks, before signing I would check out the lease on the 2.7T. Much more get up and go!!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD