Audi A6

JBaumgart · June 2002

We're leaving for a family vacation tomorrow, and will be towing a 2200 lb. boat plus carrying lots of "stuff" in the rear. With the extra weight I've inflated the allroad tires to 42 front and 45 rear. Normally I run 38 lbs front and back which seems to work about right for this car.

mariobgoode · June 2002

To JBaumgart: What is the max towing capacity of the Allroad? I have a 19-ft boat that weighs like 4000 lbs, and I'm considering getting a replacement for my SUV. I was hoping the Allroad can take its place.

JBaumgart · June 2002

The allroad is rated at just 3300 lbs (with trailer brakes) and 1650 without, which is conservative I think because the brakes are up to the task. I regularly tow 2000-2200 lbs without trailer brakes with no problems. However at 4000 lbs I think you need more of a truck frame as you would be really pushing it with the allroad or any car-based SUV.

rpiercemd · June 2002

I'm having a "heart vs head" issue here. I am new to Audi but have been smitten by two, a 2002 auto 2.7T A6 (preferred, conv packages), and a "new" manual 2001 (never titled) 2.7T S4 with <500 miles on it. Have driven both, heart goes for S4, head for A6. Dealwise, no question, can get S4 for $36 K, and that is without bargaining (yet to come). Rear seat space is issue, but not major one. Certainly the A6 is not as much fun to drive, but no slouch either.
Does anyone have any comments on reliability, holding value, etc., which may sway me a little more one way than the other?

carnaught · June 2002

...S4 the old body design? If so, I'd definitely go for the 2002 A6. Even though the S4 you describe is nice, you'll take a financial beating on it, and it's not the latest body style.

As far as "never titled" is concerned with regard to the S4, it's still a used car except you pay more taxes than used.....

nofeer · July 2002

My wife likes the audi a6, will test drive one as soon as i get a chance. What's new for '03? HAs anyone had the navigation system? What about the 3.0 vs the 2.7T what options make sense? We'll definitly get "quattro", but interested in your opinion for options.
Thanks

dtwleungnyc · July 2002

The 2.7T definitely goes faster than the 3.0. But the 3.0 is no slough either. Depends on where you live, you might think about the sports package. But, you will need a separate set of rims and tires for the winter with this setup(especially if you get snow where you live). The xenon headlights is a must, IMHO. The navigation system is too pricey for what it offers. Hope this helps.

kvsm3 · July 2002

Rpiercemd,
If you want room, go for the A6 but if you want a little bit more speed and dont mind driving the old body style, go for the S4.
I know where I live in DC, there are great lease deals on A6 2.7t, $429 a month for 39 months, 3K down, which I think is a pretty good deal.
the body style of the S4(2000-2002) is different from the 2002 A4. The 2002 S4 is out of production now. A new S4 will be coming out in late 2003 as a 2004 model and I have heard from magazines, that it might be powered by a 370 HP V8. I have also heard an RS6 which has been confirmed by several Audi dealers is coming next year. RS6 is based on A6 but will have a 450 HP twin turbo V8. an RS4 (based on current A4) is rumored to arrive as well.
But anyway, it all depends on what u really want.
if you want the current style, more room, more spacious trunk, go for the A6 2.7 T.
36K seems like a pretty good deal on an S4 with less than 500 miles. Again realize the S4 is based on old Audi A4 style and is now out of production. You could be lucky to find some in stock and get a real good deal on the 2002s.

nofeer · July 2002

for resale value which to consider
3.0 vs 2.7t?
what would be a great price now (amount over invoice for a left over 02.

Should i wait for the o3, and compare to new vehicles.

what's the usual discout during the year.

jmezz · July 2002

can anyone offer help on a6, 3.0 on 36-39 lease. zero cap cost, just inceptions, 15k yr. is it possible to lease for no more than 500/mo tax included

thanks

timcar · July 2002

The residuals on both the 2.7T and 3.0 aren't great. Both A6's and A8's haven't had good residuals. I don't know about the A4. The A8 has been particularly bad, which has made its price when used attractive. I'd check the used prices here at Edmunds to get an idea of residuals. The 2.8 residuals should be similar to the 3.0.

I haven't heard reports on '03 spec. changes, but rumor has been that they won't be significant. But it is likely that '03 MSRP pricing will be more aggressive, but accompanied by a reduction in features. It could be that the actual sale prices wont' change too much though, as dealer mark-up has been around $3.5K to $5K. If the margins are any smaller, I doubt you'll see a sale price reduction that corresponds with any lower MSRP. But still, since this is likely the last year for the current A6, and demand is declining, dealers will have to make deals to push them out the door.

End of model year pricing should be very aggressive, but sometimes isn't. It depends on the dealer's inventory and demand. This late in the model year, I think a fair deal would be $500 to $1,000 over dealer invoice. In the past, sale prices have tended to be higher at the beginning of a model year. Good, aggressive pricing has averaged $1,000 to $2,000 over dealer invoice during most model years.

To get an A6 3.0 with quattro and other assorted goodies for $500 a month on 36-39 mo. with zero down would probably be a little tough, UNLESS AoA has an incentive program, which they have had at least once, and sometimes more often during a model year. As this is likely the last year of the current A6, I wouldn't be surprised to see incentives. This past model year, the West Coast was having a 12k, zero down on the 2.7T for under $500!

If you like the less expensive FWD CVT, I think you should be able to find a deal for around $500 at some point.

kvsm3 · July 2002

In the Washington Post, an Audi dealer in Maryland, I believe its Rockville Audi is having lease specials on A6 3.0 and A6 2.7 T. With 3K or 3500 down, the A6 is $399 a month for 42 months, and the A6 2.7T is $429 a month.
These prices exclude taxes. I think these seem like good deals.

nofeer · July 2002

When do the "03 come out. If i don't get a good price or the pkg i like, i may just wait and order.
my dealer is offering
39/39k miles i believe 2k down for 399/ month with
3.0 quattro, conven and premium pkg msrp $40, 245 this was up to 5/31 but continuing now. they have quite a few on their lots. THey tell me this is a subsized lease by audi apr close to 2%.

Is the down payment negotiable? has anyone had success cutting down this down payment (cap cost reduction)

also the redisgn a6 '04 will have a screen dvd NAV system.

timcar · July 2002

They should be in the showrooms any time between the end of this month and September. AoA is not consistent in this regard. I've read that dealers already have '03 specs, but getting them to share them is another thing. I expect these new specs should make their way here or the AudiWorld board within the next month. I also suspect that if you wanted to order a car at this point, rather than buying it off the lot, the dealer would be ordering an '03, and would need to divulge it's spec's in order to accomplish this.

Is the cash down negotiable? Yes, and no. Everything's negotiable, but if this is an AoA incented plan, and it may or may not be, they usually have fixed components. I believe that lessors must now divulge the APR upon request.

However, if you get rid of a cap reduction, this will get rolled into the cap cost and the monthly payment will increase. Also, with just 12K miles a year, I'd check the cost of extra miles. Acquisition and disquisition charges are B.S., and should be negotiated out of the lease. My current lease through a credit union required only $100 up front. No month in advance, etc.

tmanlaw · July 2002

I have seen a lot a discussion on extended warranties on this Board, and have a question. I have a 2001 A6 2.7T that I have owned for 16 months. I have just under 12,000 miles and so far the car has been an absolute pleasure to drive and trouble free. I expect that I will keep it for another 3-5 years, but then again, maybe not. An extended warranty (to 7 years and 85,000 miles), covering just about everything, bumper to bumper, is offered by my dealer while I still have fewer than 12,000 miles for $2,500 ($100 deductible). Should I do it? If so, is this a competitive price, or should I shop elswehere for an extended warranty?

timcar · July 2002

Sounds high, though I haven't done specific comparisons. Also, I've most often read of 7/100K, so I wonder about 7/85K. That's only 35K beyond the initial warranty. I also wouldn't assume that the warranty the dealer sells is better or even necessarily as good as a 3rd party warranty, unless I actually compared them. IMHO, inclusive warranties are pretty useless, so it really depends on what's excluded. I.e., the less, the better. Even if I did end up purchasing one from a dealer, I'd want to do due diligence via some research, and I'd probably start at Google

markcincinnati · July 2002

The coverage sounds OK, just a "wee bit" high. However, if you really are going to keep the car, I would get the extra protection. One repair could justify this expense. I would try to go to 100K miles, however.

Is this an "official" Audi warranty?

I have seen official Audi of America warranties and they generally extend the Audi Advantage (fully) by 25K miles no deduct and service is included -- as I said a 50% extension of the Audi Advantage.

bondguy1 · July 2002

If you look at the national AOA deals, they are running an A6 3.0 CVT with the Preferred Package (leather, sunroof), with a total at inception of @ $3,800 including first month, tax and tag for $399/month for 39 months with 10,000 miles/annually. I got mine back in March. At the time, you could get this same equipped car for $469/month with total at start including 1st month, tax and tag of $1,000 (total outlay) and 39 months with 15K miles/annually. I added Premium Package and Convenience Package, 39K miles, $1,000 at start total, and payment went up to $497/month plus tax. Car listed for $39,945. It is a FWD car, not Quattro. I heard that for 2003, they are going to have what seems to be better prices but some standard items will now be extra charge. Not sure if this is correct though. The most competitive pricing was at a dealer in Miami called "Prestige Motors" but don't buy it there...Go to Champion Motors in Pompano. Much nicer place to deal with and they will match the price of other dealers. I don't know where you live but at least you can use these dealers to get an aggressive price to compare.

tubey · July 2002

I've noted this info here before, but always glad to help out.

I bought one through my broker (who got the car for me) when the car was a year old and had less than 12k on the odo. It's exclusionary, but the exclusions are the logical ones (consumables, etc.). Got it from Heritage, a GE Capital company. 7yrs/100k. Including surcharge for AWD and zero deductible, paid $1,550. Reading through it it's virtually a clone of the Audi Advantage warranty, except that it wouldn't cover brakes, wiper blades, and light bulbs like the AA does. Also, there's a full money back provision if you don't use it. Which, with an Audi, will be highly improbable.

Good luck.

tmanlaw · July 2002

Thanks to all who replied. The extended warranty offered by my dealer (University Audi in Seattle) is through a third party vendor. They claim not to be aware of any "official" Audi extended warranty for new cars, although they do have "Official Audi" extended warranties for used cars that they sell. The new car warranty seems to be very complete, excluding service and consumables, but covering just about everything else. For anyone interested, I'll post the name of the third party vendor tomorrow (I don't have it with me at the office). Has anyone heard of an "official" Audi new car extended warranty from Audi?

kennyg5 · July 2002

I suppose the warranty is only honored by the dealer who sold it and you cannot take your car to another Audi dealer and expect that dealer to also honor it. If that is correct, the warranty will only be good so long as the dealer remains in business. Unless the dealer has been around for a long time and has a good reputation, I would be hesitant in buying an extended warranty, which takes effect only after several years of new car ownership. I am not sure how a third party warranty works. Is it only good for a particular dealership?

timcar · July 2002

I'd read somewhere that the extended warranties sold by Audi and others are underwritten by Warrantech. I'm surprised that your dealer has told you they know nothing of extended warranties for new cars, most won't let you out the door without pitching it.

It's a big world. Take a look:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=extended+auto+warranties

nofeer · July 2002

02 red/beige 3.0 quattro with conv pkg, lux pkg,bose , ONSTAR, everything but nav

2K DOWN
483/MONTH WITHOUT TAXES
aquistion fee 500
apr <1.9%
What do you think

Since no significan changes for 03, felt this is a reasonable alternative for an SUV for my wife.

If this is good, do i include the taxes in the lease payment or pay up front?

tubey · July 2002

I don't know about your state, but in Washington state the taxes are added to each lease payment.

rdachille · July 2002

The local dealer says the 03 models will not be arriving until October. Could this possibly be true?

theremin · July 2002

I'm nearing the end of my 3-year lease on a 2.8 quattro. I've really liked the car (relative lack of get-up-and-go notwithstanding) and am leaning toward getting another--here's what I want and what I can afford:

A6 2.7T
Conv. package
Lux. package
Sport package (or just the 17" wheels)
3 year lease
15K miles/year
$3K drive off (or less)
$499/mo incl tax (or less)

Does this sound doable? Has anybody gotten a similar deal? Would I have to eliminate something (conv. pkg for example)? Thanks for any input.

audible · July 2002

I have gone through many of the previous posts and wish I had any one of those problems. What I have is what I thought was complete urban myth.

The water pump seized on my 2000 A6 2.7T at 60,000 miles (10,000 over warranty) which caused the timing belt to "come off". Which, as you experts know, in a zero clearance engine causes, if your lucky, bent valves. In my case, I have ruined pistons, crushed valves, split heads and ruined turbo chargers.

The dealership diagnosed the problem just from a brief roadside description as the car was being hauled away. Initial estimate was $6,000.

Further investigation revealed the ruined turbo's bringing the total cost to $17,000 (Anybody have a roll of TUMS?)

Insurance won't cover it, AoA is reviewing and the dealer is sitting on it because he knows I won't (can't)pay.

Has this happened to anyone else? Will Audi come to my rescue? Absolutely love the car, but declaring bankruptcy seems like my only option...and yes, I would recommend the extended warranty.

tmanlaw · July 2002

The extended warranty offered by University Audi in Seattle is "RepairMaster" by Warrantech (Note to Timcar: What you have read is apparently correct.) It was offered to me at the time of sale, but after having just shelled out almost $42,000 before taxes, I wasn't interested in spending any more money at that time. I also wasn't sure then how long I would keep the car. Since I now think that I may keep the car beyond four years, the extended warranty has become a must, based on what I have seen on this Board(e.g. post #2877). Its kind of like major medical--there more for catastrophic loss (like the turbos or tranny) than the small stuff. Readers of this Board have also suggested other third-party vendors for me to check out. I'll report back on the best deal I find. Thanks to all who responded.

nyccarguy · July 2002

Damn...you need to stop off at costco and pick up an economy size jar of vasoline! AofA isn't just going to roll over and authorize this reapir for you. You need to take an active role and strat calling and writing letters to AofA until you get the result you're looking for.

Ouch...all that engine work! Sorry buddy. Wish I could help you out!

Mark to the rescue?

timcar · July 2002

I'm very sorry to learn about your problem. In over two years of reading the Audi boards, I haven't heard of this before, or anything this bad. I only hope that AoA can demonstrate some exceptional consideration in your case. I don't think they have any legal obligation, but it sure would be great PR if they could help you out. If you don't get a positive response to the inquiries you've already made, I would seek further attention. Mark once posted the name and, I think, the number of a woman who was in charge of customer satisfaction. She would probably be a good person to address a further request to.

While it would be wonderful if AoA would cover the whole deal, even some substantial help might get you over the hump. That $17K must contain a substantial portion of profit on both the dealer (labor) and AoA (parts) side. Maybe if everyone could give a little, you might get a painful but survivable number.

The only other option I can think of is seeing if you can find an independent Audi shop that can do the work. I'm sure the number would still be very big, but it would have to be less than what you're looking at.

You may also want to try visiting AudiWorld. I don't know that anyone can help you on the A6 board, but I've read of many more reported failures of one type or another on the S4 board. Maybe someone there can give you better information.

I hope this works out for you.

markcincinnati · July 2002

Catastrophic engine failure is rare, but so are catastrophic house fires. In no way am I intending to be flip about what has been described.

I simply want to pose the following question: When would you ever consider (assuming that you could) NOT having insurance on your house, your car, your health and probably your life?

I venture to say that most of us who can "afford" to drive Audi's and other such $$$ cars, hate insurance premiums, but wouldn't dream of "running naked" (that is without insurance).

I have made few insurance claims in my 51 years on the planet earth -- ditto my wife. I can only assume that we have been "profitable" for our insurance company. Yet, much as I hate to pay the premiums, I do not even hesitate to pay them (and from time to time I shop for new carriers, just it case I can find a better deal -- I haven't changed carriers for 12 years).

I do not have the mental (or financial) capability to have a car that is out of warranty. The $17,000 story reinforces that sense -- i.e., I can't afford to drive an expensive car (no matter how old) without a warranty that will protect me from such things, no matter how rare.

On the other hand, I virtually never buy those extended service plans that Circuit City and other stores try to sell on appliances and stereo equipment.

As I approach the end of my lease and with 29,000 miles on my car thus far, I realize I am way way under the 50,001 mile "danger zone." No matter what, no matter how long I keep one of these wonderful cars, I will not run without a full warranty protecting me -- things, no matter how fine, how expensive, etc. BREAK!

I hope Audi will offer some goodwill to you -- contact AoA, Ms. Carol Glynn - "director" of the Audi Owner Loyalty program. This may not be her area, but I'll wager she will direct you to the right phone # or e-dress to at least "make your case."

Good luck!

cdnpinhead · July 2002

the deal is still to acquire a vehicle for which you have no personal liability for failure. Some would call this a warranty, others insurance. If you need neither of these, the vehicle is an applicance. I'm finally beginning to understand.

I have driven reliable (past the warranty, past 100K miles, past 150K miles) vehicles, with only tire, shock & brake maintenance. Others have too, and appear to expect something like that in their future "luxury" cars. What we're being told on this board is that the insurance industry (hmm. . .who really pays for insurance) is supposed to cover those who buy cars with "soul."

Let's reconvene this discussion in five years.

It'll be a hoot.

timcar · July 2002

Sorry, but I don't think your point is well taken. I've read many reports of Audi drivers reporting the same absence of repair expense you're describing over extended use. I just wouldn't want to be sitting in the Audi, or Lexus, that experiences something like this without warranty coverage. And Lexus is a good case in point: When my Lexus had about 50,100 miles on it, the driver's seat track broke. Lexus USA picked up the whole thing, for which I am both grateful and very fortunate. My dealer said replacement would be around $3K. And that's just a seat track. How much would an engine cost? Based upon this, and the $200-$300 oil changes I paid for during the warranty period, I suspect it would cost quite a bit.

timcar · July 2002

Isn't the powertrain warranty on VW 60K or 70K? If it's appropriate in your discussions with AoA, you might ask why.

mbnut1 · July 2002

It is very concerning that a water pump failure resulted in $17000 worth of engine damage. IMHO this does not represent good engine design and I think that the poster has a valid claim with Audi on this issue. Though there is no clear maintaince interval for timing belt replacement my dealer has warned me that they have had 60K engine failures due to failed belts and recommends replacement of the belt, tensioner and pump at 60K miles. A call to the dealer across town results in a 90K interval replacement so this recommendation is by no means universal.

markcincinnati · July 2002

Yes it is VERY concerning and disconcerting that a failed water pump caused $17,000 in damages. I'll bet it is very rare too.

And, I do not understand the reference to appliances and cars with "soul" in the context of attempting to "insure" oneself from financial risk.

I suspect something in the statements was meant to dis European cars in general and Audis in particular.

Well, generally speaking, this forum is for fans of the marquis, not foes. But, if the point is to say that "cars with soul" can somehow be characterized as appliances -- it missed its mark.

A neighbor's Mercedes E class had the power seat fail -- out of warranty cost $1,400 (because MB helped him). A former employee's Subaru had catastrophic engine failure -- JUST out of warranty. Tough love -- he had to buy an engine from a junk yard and have it transplanted (at least the total cost was a four figure number instead of a five figure number -- but my young employee had to take out a loan to get the car fixed, and he had not paid for the car).

I agree with Tim, there are many examples of Audi's (and other European cars) that "lived long and prospered." And, likewise there are many examples of non-European cars (generally Japanese) that died young expensive deaths.

Because the costs associated with ANY of these "high buck" cars -- no matter from which country they hail -- is so "breathtaking," I would always urge one to acquire "insurance."

This is without regard to one's perception of the car as possesing a soul or being kin to a can opener.

And, as I mentioned, I cannot afford to drive an "uninsured" $50,000+ automobile. Perhaps you can. Self insurance, over the long run, I am certain -- is probably less expensive over a 20 or 30 year period. But ONE catastrophic expense, IMO, justifies the premiums. Hmm, other than my doctor's office visits (and I do have a copay), I have never made a claim on my health insurance and, thus far at age 51, I do not have any of the big diseases -- this means my health insurance premiums have been, technically, a waste of money.

I still consider it money well spent.

And, yes I do think Audi's "have soul." Of all the descriptive terms I can come up with, "appliance" would not cross my mind. To each his/her own.

I'll keep being an Audi customer and I'll keep making sure I'm "insured" from catastrophic expenses.

Some might call this overly cautious, I call it prudent.

nyccarguy · July 2002

there are always going to be exceptions to the rules. Freak things will happen that cannot be controlled by anybody. I know someone who had nothing but problems with her TOYOTA CAMRY. The entire free world swears by the reliability and durability of these cars. She now drives a 1997 DC MiniVan that has had ZERO problems, how's that for irony. People keep Volvos for years and hundreds of thousands of miles. My Parents had a 1985 Volvo 740 Turbo that dropped dead at 85,000 miles. That car was slain with all kinds of problems. So now we know someone (who unfortunately) has $17,000 worth of engine damage to his 2 year old, 60,000 mile Audi.

cdnpinhead · July 2002

not exactly.

Here's why I monitor many of these boards: Several cars interest me, and I enjoy the day-to-day discussions of what lease deals are good, or what outright purchase deals work, or (most especially), what do I do with my recently-purchased used car. I'm a big fan of reliability, having driven several vehicles 200K+ miles, including commercial trucks.

I don't troll here hoping for previously-happy consumers complaining about being huge disappointments with high-dollar repairs. What I'm really looking for are the used-car folks coming in with something like: "I bought an Audi XX-YYY with 89,000 miles on it and drove it an additional 37,000 miles, and the rear door handle broke. I know it's 8 years old, so what's the best source for a replacement?" Stuff like that.

There are boards on Edmunds that actually survive while having this kind of discourse, with real answers. The engine and drivetrain lasts 250K miles, but the seats wear out, or the head liner droops, or the plastic on the tail lights breaks, or whatever.

Believe me, I monitor carefully all sport sedan (luxury, too) boards to see how the long-term thing goes. People who buy the vehicle with 70 - 120K miles on it, then put another 20K or so on it, then ask where the nearest dealer is, do exist.

If they buy Audis, they appear not to be aware of Edmunds.

nosho · July 2002

is unreasonable to say the least. www.goapr.com sales an entire turbo-charger upgrade kit (turbos, bi-pipe, hoses, clamps, wiring...) for $6200 dollars. With the engine out, replacing turbos is nothing labor wise - they are being handled anyways as they are attached to the exhaust manifold.

Find out why the turbos are so much... and what they would charge for installation of third party parts.

vonbonds · July 2002

Hello all. I am curious as to your opinions about using an Audi 2.7T or 3.0 A6 as an everyday car putting on roughly 20K miles per year. Obviously an Audi will probaby cost more to repair than a Subaru but will the Audi stand up over time assuming I keep it for 150K miles.

Just curious for opinions of current Audi owners and their thoughts on holding an Audi for 7+ years with 150K+ miles on it from scratch. Obviously Japanese cars are best suited for this but I am interested in owneing a European car for a change.

Thanks for all input.

marleybarr · July 2002

From what Mark-Cincinnati has revealed about warranty repair to his A6-4.2, we are talking about $5000 or more worth of warranty repairs on a vehicle w/29,000 miles.I don't know if this is average for an Audi or any high-end German,(or for that matter,any brand) of vehicle,it does make sense,IMO, to have a warranty and extended warranty, (if keeping the vehicle) for as long as possible.
Yes, I do know drivers who have 160,000 miles on a vehicle and have only changed the oil once! I also know people that went to the casino and won $10,000 with one pull of the slot machine!
These things have never happened to me and probably never will. I have to make money the old-fashioned way-I have to earn it!! So, I agree w/Mark and stick w/ good warranties for the long haul.

aggie76 · July 2002

Great article in new Autoweek on RS6 if you haven't seen it! Really positive view as the one to beat!

davidframe · July 2002

Not to make all you A6 owners feel old, but my 73 yr old mother has her eye on a 99 A6Q with 27k miles. Having never owned an Audi, any general advice on what to look for/avoid on this car?

She's tested it twice, likes it, drives well, a lease return, Audi certified, price OK. Considering additional warranty protection.

Appreciate advice as I continue to read through 2800 other posts! Can also reply to davidframe@earthlink.net. Thanks!

theremin · July 2002

I'm nearing the end of a 3-year lease on my A6 2.8 quattro--I've got about 42K miles on it and I've had virtually no problems whatsoever. There've been a couple of minor electronic glitches along the way...promptly taken care of (along with the maintenence, brake pads etc) under warranty and free of charge. I hope my experience isn't unique--I'm surprised to read about the volume of problems people seem to be having. I'm seriously considering getting another A6 and would like to get a 2.7T if I can get a good enough deal. I posted this a few days ago, but I'll try again.

What I'd like:
A6 2.7T
Convenience pkg
Luxury pkg
Sport pkg
(Maybe premium pkg--xenon lights etc)
3-year lease
3K drive-off cost (or less)
$499/mo incl tax (or less)
15K miles/year

Does this sound possible? Anybody with a similar deal? thanks for any input.

markcincinnati · July 2002

Having virtually no repeat experience with any brand of car other than Audi, I haven't got any first hand experience that would allow me to comment about the reliability of other auto brands. Like many, however, I talk with people frequently about their experiences with their cars. I know some people who never seem to buy the same brand of car twice -- they usually love their cars until their first problem with it then complain about the car until the lease is up and switch brands. The person who seems to do this most often would probably tell you that there are no good (read reliable) cars manufactured on the planet Earth. Other's that I know are the opposite, loving their Acuras or BMW's or Mercedes, as many of us on this forum love our Audis.

Yep, at about 29,000 miles on my 2001 A6 4.2, I have accumulated -- under warranty -- about $5,000 worth of repairs (brake rotors R Us) -- perhpas the single most expensive repair/replacement being the "power operated til/telescope steering column. Maintenance, normal routine maintenance has been additional. And I have replaced my tires twice (I am on the third full set of tires -- 255 x 40 x 17's UHP or Max Perf wear fast, i.e.).

This probably means that on top of my lease payment, about $7,000+ has been put into keeping the car the way I like it.

My main problem, the one that has apparently been corrected for 2002, as you all know, has been with the purring or shuddering brakes -- I have railed about this problem both here and to Audi and as I have also noted Audi has been very helpful. And, this help has cost someone -- thankfully not me -- a bundle. Audi and my dealer have minimized my troubles, but I still find myself shaking my head that a $54,000+ car couldn't have brakes as good as the Pontiac Bonneville I rented on a business trip. My words, as I recall, have been to characterize my brake problems as "annoying" -- the brakes perform their function.

Moreover, I have shared with this erudite forum that I really love this car and that at over 25K miles it actually seems to drive, handle, ride -- perform, that is -- better than when it had 1 miles on it. And, although I am near to the end of my 30 month lease term, and despite what some would think, I am again (already done it in fact) ordering a new (2003) Audi (allroad 2.7T w/6spd), as is my wife (a new TT).

My point is to share my experiences pertaining to Audis with you -- and to wonder out loud about many things related to cars, Audis in particular. I enjoy 99% of the posts on this board and actually rely on many of the poster's opinions and experiences as I move forward with my choices of cars (well, Audis).

So, while I think that my experiences under warranty seem -- when stated as a number: $5,000 -- even to me, excessive, it does not diminish the pleasure I have had with this brand in the least. Likewise, I am even further convinced, if that is possible, of the wisdom of never driving a car -- any car -- "naked" (without a full warranty).

Finally, I just read the Car and Driver test report of the new Lexus ES300 -- the car apparently is perfect in every way, but the conclusion one can draw from this review is that while the car is apparently bullet proof in every way, it is uninspiring and one can extrapolate, boring.

I wish my Audi would be as, apparently, reliable as some of the write ups about some Japanese cars describe; but, I would not trade relability for the pleasure that goes with driving Audis.

To each his/her own.

BTW, while not flawless, my wife's TT has been -- except for tires -- almost 100% trouble free.

theremin · July 2002

I enjoyed your post. Again I'm surprised and somewhat bewildered to hear about the problems you had with your A6 4.2...mainly because my A6 2.8 quattro has been virtually trouble-free (a few minor fixes aside) for 3 pretty hard & aggressively driven years. It is the first non-Japanese car I've had (well, the very 1st car I ever had was a Fiat--but it barely counts as a car) and I've loved it. I am actually considering a couple of other cars for my next lease, along with a 2.7T. I will say that the reliability peace-of-mind that is part and parcel of the Japanese car experience IS a very good thing; I've been very happy that my Audi has been every bit as reliable. The feel and spirit of the Audi has also been very enjoyable and as you mention, quite different from the...vanilla? quality of many Japanese cars. I even find the Audi driving experience to be more appealing than BMW and especially Mercedes. The only other car that gives me a similar personal charge is the Saab 9-5 Aero (Saab, admittedly has certainly had its reliability issues in the past, though apparently much improved lately). I'm not quite sure why I'm not just automatically going with another Audi...other than the fact that I'm curious about experiencing other cars...and perhaps reading about all the problems that other people have had is causing me to balk a bit. I'm not sure I'm willing to trade reliability for pleasure as readily as you are, yet based on my own Audi experience I wouldn't have to. I sure hope that would continue to be the case in the future. Enjoy your Allroad and TT--and may all your visits to the shop be for scheduled maintenance only!

gsilverstein · July 2002

Several months ago I purchased a 2002 A6 quattro. I find that the transmission is very noisy (the engine sounds like a diesel when you start up) and not very smooth in changing gears (in fact the ratio changes so much between 3rd and 4th (I believe) that you have to increase pressure on the gas metal to continue driving). My wife drives a Lexus GS300 and it's so quite that you can't tell the engine is running. Does my car just have a bad transmission or is this what I should expect from Audi.

theremin · July 2002

Your transmission problem doesn't sound like something you should 'expect' from Audi. I haven't encountered anything like that in my '99 quattro. I would definitely bring it to the dealers attention.

timcar · July 2002

I second Mike, this doesn't sound right. I drive an '01 2.7T, and have driven an '02 3.0 quattro loaner. I've never experienced what you're describing except possibly for the a somewhat load engine at start up. There's an air injector that runs for up to about 45 seconds after you start the engine that can make for a pretty loud engine. The car will also not up-shift from second for a short while until the engine warms up enough. It's designed that way. But these two exceptions aside, I haven't heard what you're describing before, though I'd expect the Lexus to have slightly better NVH based upon my experience with both makes.

markcincinnati · July 2002

I had a 2002 A6 3.0 quattro for several days while my 2001 A6 4.2 was waiting for parts -- your situation is indeed abnormal. They, based on my experience, are not at all as you describe them -- hopefully you have that one in a million problem and Audi will "make you whole."

Good luck, let us know how it all comes out!

Audi A6

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