Audi A6

davking · June 2003

The '03's I believe have the new coils. But I think the problem for Audi is not the coils, but their handling of the issue. It does not bode well for how they might handle other reliability issues.

I also wonder how many VW and Audi owners of the cars at risk know about the issue. It may be that only us nuts on the chatlines are aware and concerned.

I once owned a '68 Jeep Wagoneer and had three flexplates and torgue converters replaced in the first year. They liked to tell me it was the same transmission as used in Rolls Royce's. I liked to tell them I was happy I didn't own a Rolls. Two of the those times I was stranded with a young family, once in the outback and once for two weeks in Santa Fe with little cash and a single, oddball credit card. Had a love/hate relationship with that car for 13 years and I don't intend to repeat it with an Audi.

davking · June 2003

I forgot we received a letter telling us about the coil problem. It was a long time ago.

markcincinnati · June 2003

David's point is possibly a bit extreme, but it IS the point. And, although I continue to buy and have overall good experiences with Audis, I can understand how the handling of this problem has cost more than they know -- so far.

On the other hand, the public has a short memory.

Audi may have lost not only David but other potential customers as well -- but this is really a public secret. And this is no where near the scandal that effected them with the 60 minutes unitended acceleration piece.

None of this excuses Audi from mishandling a problem -- and although I would buy another Audi, I cannot find fault with David for not wanting to buy one "just in case" Audi's handling of one problem could be indicative of how they might handle another one.

davking · June 2003

I'm not ready to give up on Audi. I'm not at all sure what the story is on the customer service action and, at least until I get the rest of the story, I'm still a fan of the car.

Dave

subewannabe · June 2003

i was shopping for an extended warrranty on my A6 with just a few days left on the factory warranty. i found out that:
1) many of the commercial extended warranty companies wont underwrite the A6;
2) after comparing my service records over the past 3 years to the covered repairs on the various levels of warranties offered by my audi dealer, i had only one repair that would have been covered,a misfiring #5 cylinder, and it would be covered under the lowest level of extended warranty plan offered . if my next 3 years experience were similar, my extended warranty would give me very little value. So i bagged the extended warranty and im saving the $$ for a rainy day.
BTW, while doing my warranty shopping, i also explored trading in my sedan for an fully loaded '01 avant wagon that had 7K miles and 30 months of factory warranty. the dealer could get it audi certified for another 2 years, up to 100 miles, on top of the factory warranty, but that added approx $1500 to his best price. he wasnt ready to deal that 01 so my wife will keep driving an out-of -warranty sedan! wish me luck!

tbrown12 · June 2003

I have 27k to spend. Liked the 528i sport- can find them in that $$$range. I drove a 2000 2.7 turbo Audi which wasn't as nice a feel or as solid as the BMW but it was very fast and a close second based on drive. It's is also cheaper. The BMW 530i or 540i with low miles are out of my budget so they aren't options. I have heard that 2000 Audi Turbos in general have maintance issues too like a Volvo T6.

It's seems the safer and better handling BMW might be a better choice although Audi's performance is very impressive for the price. Looking at total value not just performance although performance is important. Resale, annual maintenance, interior quality, etc.

What's your take>

merc1 · June 2003

Mark,

What is the word on the RS6? Have you seen any yet, has it gone on sale?

M

markcincinnati · June 2003

I know nothing, other than the fact that the dealers here in River City will gladly take an order for one from you. $500 refundable.

I just wish there would be an S6 sedan like there will soon be an S4 sedan. . .

In fact, an S4 avant could be in my future -- since there is no way my wife will ever drive a "station wagon" -- the grief I get now for driving an allroad is substantial.

". . .but honey it isn't a station wagon. . ." does no good!

An $85K car, in this economy?, seems like a decision I will not have to worry about. My "cheap" $50K allroad is plenty -- for the time being anyway.

marleybarr · June 2003

What is an average 39 month lease payment on a new A6 2.7T w/ the usual options?

I just want to get a general idea of monthly lease costs and down payments other than the Mpls/St. Paul area. Thanks in advance!

markcincinnati · June 2003

#1 put no money down, it is a false economy especially today.

#2 assuming every option, cars MSRP's at $49,600

#3 assuming normal discount of $2500 lease payment would be $695 WORST CASE. Remember this car as configured was a 6spd manual with EVERY POSSIBLE option box checked.

#4 term was 39 months.

I'll bet you could get a monthly payment number for such a vehicle if it was already on the lot of at least another 10% lower. Possibly better.

The chances of finding a car with every option are pretty good -- possibly On*star would be missing, but that is one of the lower cost options ($699) -- and now that I have it, I would say "yes" to On*star.

marleybarr · June 2003

Assuming I can get 10% off the $695/mo. lease payment, $625.00 mo./ 39 months w/ no money down sounds like an attractive way to go on the 2.7T.

Of course tax,license, over the limit mileage are extra.

Thanks for the info!

auneek1 · June 2003

I am amazed that you guys talk so much about Audi's but don't seem to have a clue about the RS6. First let's say that the RS6 IS the 6's version of the S4 and then some. The RS6 is and will be an unbelievable machine. Spanking everything in it's class. Just close your eyes and imagine this... a 4.2 liter biturbo V8 producing 450 HP and 415 LBs of torgue. 0 to 60 in 4.6 and an electronically govered top speed of 155. There's much more.. go search the internet and learn.

It kinda bothers me that you seem to know so much of the negative stuff but very little about the positive things.

Just to make it clear..I'm not talking to everyone one this board, just the ones the fit that fit the description.

porknbeans · June 2003

As somebody who lurks here, I think that it is important for you to calm the sarcasm and read a few more posts. Yes, there are a few negative comments about the reliability issues on this board, but it is far and away an intelligent place for opinions and information. Because we may not know everything about the RS6 that you do is maybe because most people can't afford one or aren't of that bend. Instead of ratcheting it up why not tell us about what you know and try to pique our interest. Add to the board and rise above the "negative stuff" that you feel resides here. Just my opinion.

ctorrey2 · June 2003

I Believe the RS6 is to the A6 line as the RS4 is to the A4 line. There is/was an S6 and there was/will be an S4. I don't believe the RS4 ever appeared on these shores, but it exists and is quite something.

davking · June 2003

Talked to my service manager a bit ago. Letters are going out this week and in following weeks in waves of 10 inviting owners to come in to have coil packs replaced. He didn't know the basis for the order in which they will be sent. The action is expected to take until August to complete. He gave me much more information about the problem and solution than I had received from any other source, including the encouraging fact that they have had only 15 cars come in with the problem. He also explained why the problem could not be prevented by factory level quality control -- it takes a while to show up -- sometimes as much as 35,000 miles.

All of which doesn't exonerate Audi of criticism regarding how they have communicated with owners about this problem.

blockislandguy · June 2003

Mark, You--and I think every one else-- suggest leasing with zero down. Try as I can to understand it, I can't see the benefit of incurring a higher lease payment than necessary.

Sure, you could "deduct" or "expense" more from your taxes but then you could lease an A8 and expense even more. Is it that the discounted present value of a down payment is higher now than it would be at lease end so why loan them the money?

I can't figure it out.

Can you help?

ctorrey2 · June 2003

Blockislandguy -

Before you lease a new vehicle, I would spend some time researching the process. Placing a large down payment (or cap cost reduction) is a contradiction to the basic tenets of leasing (though shalt not drive more than 12-15k miles and though shalt not make a down payment). In short, if the money factor is .0006 (recent MF quote for Audi models), then that is equvilent to a 1.44 APR, which is great (MF *2400=APR)! Just taking your cap cost reduction (ie, your down payment) and dumping into a tax free money market effectively doubles that yield, let alone other more aggressive investment vehicles. Sure you have a higher monthly payment, but you will come out ahead in the long run (unless you sink that money into the next Enron), but you keep the cash. Ultimately, if you can't afford the monthly payment with little or no money down, you can't afford the car.

There used to be a way to make a one-time lease payment, which basically covered the "rent charge" component of the lease payment (the others being interest/money factor and sales tax). Again, you may not be paying any "interest" or vig on the vehicle, but the lessor keeps all the interest, not you and I know they will make more than 1.44%!

In short, if you put ~$40,000 down on a new Porsche 911, you could lease the car for under $100 month over 3 years. Does that make sense?

Of course there is another option, which is to make multiple security deposits. This approach requires the buyer to make n number of x$ refundable security deposits, which, in turn, results in a decrease of the money factor. I don't think this is any better than lowering the cap cost via cash down payment, but you will lower the payment.

Keep in mind, I have not considered the tax implications of any of these approaches, so keep that in mind. Good luck

markcincinnati · June 2003

. . .what's the point? The cost to buy the lower payment is usually too high.

markcincinnati · June 2003

Several (many?) of us participants on this board are "really into" Audis (of all sorts) and pretty much into cars in general.

While there are complaints posted, it seems to me that folks here on edmunds and at audiworld ARE well to very well acquainted with the brand, and don't spend an inordinate amount of time focused on flaws.

We can probably engage in a lively discussion about the RS6 -- and it is, for the time being, the king of the hill.

Most of us choose NOT to afford an $85,000 car since it would probably mean a trade off in some other area of our lives.

This, however, does not mean we might not lust for such a car -- and it does not mean that we are unwilling to engage in conversation or debate about such a car.

Who has one on order? What did they tell you at the time when you ordered it? When will you have it? Has anyone on this forum ever driven one or even been inside one?

My wish list, frankly, is for a "regular" S6 -- I have driven an S6 avant (2002) and it was better even than my 2001 A6 4.2 sport.

I ended up with a 6spd manual 2.7T allroad that I have modified somewhat -- because the S6 "only" had an automatic and I thought the allroad with the 6spd was "kind of" a cross between the S6 avant and the A6 2.7T (and the performance of the allroad is only .1 second slower to 100kph than the A6 4.2 --- which of course is burdened with automatic only).

My $49K allroad certainly is no S6, but it is in many respects better (for my taste) than the $54K A6 I had previously.

The dream car, for me -- price included -- would probably be an S6 sedan (and if it had either a 6spd tip or a manual transmission, and I had to pay for it -- would make me not miss the RS6 at all).

Blasphemy? No, not really -- I said factoring in the price and using MY OWN money, I think a $63K S6 would be just fine thank you compared with an $85K RS6. Now, if someone else is buying, where do I sign up for that RS6?

tomintampa · June 2003

saw one in Tampa--nice ; couldn't get the driver to pull over; he was probably on his was to the Audi "test center"
tom

blockislandguy · June 2003

Ctorrey2, thanks for the explanation. I guess the short answer is "opportunity cost" and when the APR is low as it is now the opportunity cost is too high? Incidentally, I still see these "single payment" leases advertised in the Sunday NY Times in the fall. I envision the blue hair brigade selling one of their munis, making the one payment and heading down to FL in their newly leased car for the winter.

roxreps · June 2003

I know, I know I'm in the wrong forum, but maybe you can help me.

I've been looking at the lease numbers for the A6 avant and the allroad and I'm not quite sure but the allroad win hands down. Is there any reason for this? most of the reviews I've read place the allroad as an 'anomaly'. Something just doesn't add up. For a car that lists for allmost 46K, it will lease for less than the A6 Avant. What's up? Is Audi trying to phase out this vehicle? I haven't yet test driven the allroad, but is is inferior to the Avant?

someone please answer...

JB

JBaumgart · June 2003

I haven't checked lately but if you are leasing and therefore are not concerned with resale value, and Audi is offering superior leasing deals on the allroad, I would definitely go that route. It is in no way inferior to the Avant and in fact I would argue just the reverse. The engine is definitely worth paying EXTRA for, and if you can get it for less, it becomes a great deal.

On the question of phasing it out, yes there are at least strong rumors that the allroad will be discontinued, maybe after 2005, but I am not aware of any official announcement of this.

As to whether it's an "anomaly" I suppose it is because it's rather unique, and for some reason (price, mainly I think) it never sold in very large numbers. But I say if you like the styling and can find a great lease deal, go for it - it's a great vehicle, and you won't see too many others on the road.

roxreps · June 2003

Thanks for your advice. I am leaning towards the Allroad but my 'sixth sense' has made me stop to get another opinion on this car. I lease and you're correct, I'm not overly concerned with resale value. The difference between the Avant and Allroad (lease-wise) is between $25-50 dollars/month with the Allroad coming out cheaper. I have a little time to do this deal. I'm wondering if I should wait for July residual/MF numbers. They could be even better.

JB

markcincinnati · June 2003

There will be at least one or two more years of the allroad. However, the inside scoop says there will be a Toureg based SUV and that that will probably signal the end of the allroad.

The 2004 lineup for the allroad includes an auto-only (boo, hiss) 4.2L V8 version.

The 2.7T version with a 6spd manual and a 0-100kph time of 6.8 seconds will be quicker than most cars on the road today. With all options, including the "expensive" Audi logo'd phone, the allroad 2.7T in 6spd form will be MSRP'd @ $49K -- it is quieter than a "normal audi," and when the factory original tires are replaced with decent rubber, the car rides and handles like a much smaller car.

The fact that the deals are better indicates that it is being incented by AoA financial -- by a lower money factor.

The fact that this car will do almost everything an SUV will do and almost everything an Audi A6 will do, has a heavier floor pan by some 20% and is very mod friendly, just makes it all the more desirable.

Please, however, give both the tip and the 6spd a nice long test drive. While both cars are very desirable, the 6spd version has so much more accelerative force (grunt) -- the 2 cars' characters are completely different.

The allroad will blow any A6 avant (except the S6) away.

libertycat · June 2003

I HATE the current A6. Its styling is gross and the interior isn't overly luxurious. I liked the previous generation ('90-96') very well and thought it was one of the best cars of its time. I hope the new A6 is as good as the '90 A6 was.

merc1 · July 2003

I have to say you're about the only person I've ever heard say something like that. The previous A6 is all but forgotten now. The current model was a knockout in styling inside and out when it debuted, if underpowered. Very, very interesting that you feel that way.

M

libertycat · July 2003

By the way, my parents owned a '90 A6 sedan and wagon. I LOVED those cars. "a knockout in styling, inside and out"? Ummmmmmm, I think it is PLAIN UGLY at least on the outside.

markcincinnati · July 2003

. . .have had their detractors, to be sure. In the motoring press, forums and chat rooms you can certainly find many that have had issues with their A6's.

I agree, however, that you are the first person ever to not find the A6 to be a "looker."

Interesting and let's see how the brand evolves from your point of view.

Do you have any opinions on the other cars in Audi's lineup???

marleybarr · July 2003

LIBERTYCAT,

There was no 1990 A6, just models like the 80, 90 ,100, and 200 at that time. I don't believe the A4 and A6 made their debut until 1993 or 1994 at the earliest.

markcincinnati · July 2003

libertycat · July 2003

so you're probably right. A troll, mark??? I hated the 1994-2003 A8 and like the new one. I believe the Allroad is NOT an SUV but a wagon and hate it as much as I hate the A6. I like the A4 but I prefer cars like the C Class, 9-3, S60, CTS, etc.

libertycat · July 2003

The ugly top of the trunk is round or ovalish or something and those UGLY taillamps. Yikes! LOL

merc1 · July 2003

The early 90's 100/200 the the facelifted 95-97' A6 wasn't "exclusive...it simply didn't sell. Big difference.

M

libertycat · July 2003

They still weren't common at all and that made them exclusive. However, they sold like hotcakes in my town and they were in the top ten most common vehicles in town.

kwarnold · July 2003

Hi everyone!

I would like to see if anyone has a theory or opinion on my situation. I have a 2003 3.0 A6Q bought in March with about 4500 on the clock thus far.

Pretty much since day 1 I have had a vibration that was noticable at freeway speeds. It was not the kind of vibration where you see the steering wheel wiggle/vibrate. It was one of those things you feel in your seat and a little in the wheel.

At first they said it was the tires. They balanced the wheels - twice - with no improvement whatsoever. Then they sent me to a local tire dealer they work with to have the wheels checked. (I have the optional upgrade 17" wheels.) Two of the wheels were a little out-of-true. (I stood over their shoulders when they tested them and saw it with my own eyes.) No problem; the dealer orders me new wheels no questions asked.

OK, here is where it gets interesting: Yesterday the dealer calls me and says that the 2 new wheels did not fix it so they want the car another day. OK, no problem since I am driving the identical car to my own from their loaner pool. Late today they call and say that they have now put on 4 new wheels, 4 new tires, new brakes and rotors and the problem still exists!!

He even said that they have put some sort of sensor on my car that "listens" for these kinds of things that helps them locate the problem. But they can't find the source of the vibration. They feel it themselves when they drive the car and there is no disputing its existence.

Upside: I have lots of expensive new parts on my car at no cost.

Downside: No resolution in sight.

Has anyone ever had this kind of vibration? Resolution?

Thanks in advance! Keith

jodar · July 2003

Wow, sounds like you've got quite a problem. Have they checked any other associated components; suspension, links, etc to see if anything is out of whack? You should trying calling into the Pat Goss Car World radio show and posing your question to him. He is quite knowledgeable about cars and their mechanical quirks. Good luck!

morphie · July 2003

I have had a similar problem; While each vehicle is unique, here is how our dilemma was solved:

First, as did you, we eliminated as many variables as possible: tires, wheels, balance, etc. The dealer then traced the problem to one of the drive shafts; once corrected, the symptoms disappeared. While this may not be your defect, it is worth exploring.

kwarnold · July 2003

Thanks for the replies/posts. Here is where things stand, one week after I dropped the car off at the dealer.

They have eliminated the wheels, brakes and most recently the driveshafts and related components. The service manager made a comment that they are checking with the engineers at Audi HQ in Auburn Hills about a service bulletin regarding some A6s being built with mis-matched components in the drivetrain. While this sounds pretty outrageous, they say it has happened on a small number of cars. So they have sent all of the ID numbers from my car's components to them to evaluate.

So far they have had my car for a week and the service manager says he really isn't sure when they will solve it. Luckily I have their loaner car (identical to my own, except for the color) and I really haven't been driving much anyway.

I will post the resolution when I hear back from them if anyone is interested.

Thanks, Keith

dtwleungnyc · July 2003

Please keep us posted, this sounds very interesting.

jodar · July 2003

I posted this in the Wagons sections but I consider this issue a A6 problem in general. Do any of you A6 owners notice a wind buffeting problem with the sunroof open at certain speeds? If I increase my speed above 40mph or decrease it below, or roll down the windows, then the problem eventually goes away. Is this just a design problem I have to live with or is it something else? Thanks.

JBaumgart · July 2003

This is very common on many different cars, and is not a design problem unique to the A6 at all. Try backing off the sunroof opening an inch or so, and the buffeting should go away. Or crack one of the back windows a bit, and the air will be able to escape, relieving the pressure.

markcincinnati · July 2003

There is a detent in the rotary switch that opens the sunroof. That is the anti-buffeting detent.

Open the sunroof to the detent level and there will be little or no buffeting.

This is covered, BTW, in the 2003 VHS video that comes with the car (my allroad tape spent a little time on this feature).

Lowering a window a bit will make the problem virtually go away if the roof is fully opened, however, too.

andys120 · July 2003

that is one of those plastic deflectors that goes over the front of the sunroof opening. They've cut down wind noise and buffetting on several cars I've owned.

Also make sure your back windows are shut.

mpyles1 · July 2003

I had a 2002 A6 4.2 from May to November of last year, during which time it went through three head unit replacements due to the Telematics system failing and taking out the audio and phone. The service tech at New Country Audi in Greenwich, CT (highest-volume Audi dealer in US) told me the Telematics systems were failing in droves because of a software glitch. He said Audi was at something like 14 new software releases but that the problems remained.

In November, I replaced that car with a 2002 S6, again with Telematics, to prepare for a move to Chicago. That car was in the shop for the third time two weeks ago due to a Telematics failure. This time, I was told it was the On*Star control module. The problem was draining the battery every time I parked the car. After sitting in the shop almost a week, the dealer received the replacement module from Audi (a rebuilt unit, according to the service rep). It failed upon installation, so the dealer returned the car to me with the battery drain cured but the On*Star system inoperable. That's the current state of the car.

This is my 7th failure of a Telematics-equipped Audi in 14 months, but Audi is telling me no one else is having this problem. I will not even take the car out of the city for fear of the electronics failing out in the boonies and leaving me stranded. Nor can I plan on keeping the car beyond the warranty period, as the costs of repair will be astronomical. I have asked Audi USA to repurchase the car, which they have refused to do. So I'm now working with an attorney to start lemon law proceedings.

Is Audi telling the truth? Am I the only person having problems with Telematics systems? Has anyone else heard anything similar to what the Greenwich tech told me?

Thanks for the help.

cdnpinhead · July 2003

this is certainly interesting.

While I enjoy the concept of an Audi (driving a rental in Europe several times), the reality (owning one in the U.S.) remains a very sketchy concept. Even with a warranty, the time spent taking the car in, picking up and returning the loaner, etc. adds up. Besides which, while trying to fix one thing, some technicians cause what I guess we could call "collateral damage."

Please keep us posted (as it appears you're motivated to do) regarding the Telematics system.

Good luck.

markcincinnati · July 2003

Picked up my car on November 1, 2002; an '03 allroad with all options, including the Audi phone, the steering wheel controls, On*star -- the kitchen sink.

By November 6th On*star worked, sorta, but could not determine my location (big clue, something was wrong).

Car was in the shop, in the proverbial million pieces for 11 days.

New On*star unit, new phone, new phone battery, ultimately the problem was found to be in a conncetion -- it seems if you have BOTH sat nav and On*star (which I do) you actually have On*star's global positioning and the Sat nav GPS -- the cable that "integrates" the On*star with the phone and the cable that runs to the sat nav were somehow misconnected. There was apparently no problem with either piece of hardware, it was just connected improperly.

While my car was in the shop, I had an A6 4.2 loaner.

The problem has not resurfaced and I use On*star for my weather, traffic, news, stock market performance and e-mail. The e-mail feature is particularly cool as is the the weather/traffic "based on your current location" feature.

Since the original trial and tribualation, all systems work fine.

I will always have On*star from now one based on my experience.

What mostly irritated me is that my car was leased -- I paid them a month's lease payment and wihin a week the car was out of service for almost two weeks. Now they did take care of me and I am a currently happy camper -- I would rather, in hindsight, have picked up the car on November 12th problem free.

For my trouble, I was "gifted" a free hour of On*star time.

Woo woo.

Sorry for your trouble -- the dealer service guys claim that there have been several On*star unit replacements, but they have been more of the exception rather than the rule.

A more annoying problem was the factory phone in the 03 TT -- we could hear the caller buy only if we YELLED could the caller hear us. We are finally on our third microphone (which is built in somewhere into the car) and the problem is fixed.

Engines and transmissions seem fine, fit and finish fine -- Audi's in our recent experience seem to have more "electronic" (not electrical) problems than anything else.

My "wonder" is, I wonder if the Japanese and other European marquis have these problems. The Audi electronics have always seemed to me to be one generation old -- that is old enough that the bugs should be worked out of them.

The Audi sat nav system is still CD based, for example, makes you wonder what problems would crop up if Audi had moved to DVD several years ago like the Japanese.

I read some posting here recently -- kinda makes you wonder where your Honda Accord has more advanced electronics than your Audi (or Merecedes or BMW for that matter).

Too bad you can't "mate" a German car and a Japanese car -- the offspring would be truly amazing if the best traits of each surfaced.

kwarnold · July 2003

I thought I would post an update to my earlier post (bottom of page 190) regarding my mysterious vibration in my '03 A6 Q 3.0 (4500 miles - bought March 2nd).

Well its been three weeks that my car has been in the shop. I made my weekend visit to it yesterday morning to see what's up. As of now, they have put 4 new wheels (17" upgrades), 4 new tires, all new brakes, all new rotors, new driveshaft and tomorrow they are planning to drop a new transmission in it.

I laughed with the service manager (for some reason I can actually still laugh about this matter) and commented that Audi would have been better off just getting me a new car. I have to believe that with all these parts and many hours of labor and now a whole new transmission going in, that Audi has to be over the $10K+ mark with my car.

The service manager said that this is the way Audi does it. If my car hits the 30-day mark, then all my options open up, but until then they will keep making repairs.

hen he told me a funny/interesting antectdote: He said they had one customer's A6 that had just a quirky tachometer. It had no effect on the way the car drove and the problem went away within 30 seconds of the car starting. He said that by the time they were done trying to make the car right by the customer's standards, Audi had $42,000 in repairs on the car!! The sticker of my A6 was just a hair over $42K! I am not sure where the business sense is in this way of thinking, but that is the way they do it.

So, as of now, I am 3-weeks into this and they "think" this will fix the problem. (Of course that is what they thought with the other problems....) So I will see what happens later this week!

Just thought I would keep the group updated on the progress of an unusual problem that has proven to be very expensive for Audi to fix (to no good end as of yet.)

Keith

mbnut1 · July 2003

Audi A6 & Mercedes E-class, comparison test
I should be in bed as I write this. Being a male car enthusiast, only 2 things are likely to prevent me from doing so. One is female. The other is a rather good car. And I have just returned from a 250 mile one-night trip in one.

The other day I took my first real drive in a W210 E-class, a 2000 E240 (2.6). Maybe it was simply what I expected a newer Mercedes saloon to be. Or maybe it didn't feel like it had really moved on from a late 80's Mercedes, but it didn't really impress me much.. It had some of the good qualities of the oldies (ride, a fairly solid feel etc.), plus all the new technology they've come up with in the interim (airbags coming out of your ears, extra weight etc.), while also missing others (build, some of the class & elegance etc.). Being a manual didn't help, it doesn't suit the car and I decided pretty soon that it is not a car to drive quickly for fun, whilst the actual box and gearchange is pretty poor anyway.

Either way, it is not the car the W124 and 190E were in their days, and I cannot really see a reason for wanting one over either of these other than it's newer and safer. Okay its quieter than a 190E, but it also has precisely none of its nimbleness and enjoyment of driving quickly.

An 'OK' car in my opinion.

So, as luck has it, my Dad's garage sold a 2002 Audi A4 and a late 1997 54,000 mile Audi A6 (the new, current shape) was traded in. It's a car I have always liked the look of, but never driven much. My family has run many Audi's, but I am the first to tell people their faults and then drive one of our other cars. Our 261,000 mile 1994 A6 has and will run for ever while feeling it has done 100,000 miles, but I'd never choose to take it anywhere. The '98 A4 1.9 TDi we had was competent but dull in nearly all areas, the poor damping the most frustrating factor when attempting to drive it fast.
The only one to inspire me has been the '97/98 A8 4.2 Quattro. Excellent in all areas, but too damn big. To big to drive fast, too big to park, to big to own, and to big to fit in a warehouse. No idea has enticed me close to enough to make me want to own one.

This A6 is a 2.8 Quattro version. With a 5-speed manual. So, this afternoon, I took off to run some long distance errands with it. The below average ride experienced in some Audi's is nowhere to be seen. It's very slightly firm, blame the Quattro suspension (blame that also for the constant grounding) but also forgiving, and never crashy or anything close to unacceptable for an executive saloon. Then, you turn some corners, and I found the compliance completely at odds with the astonishingly flat cornering. There is also Zero weight transfer. I feel like I could use the white lines in the road as a slalom course all day and never worry about the rear of the car swinging some way I don't want it to. Incredibly stable through fast bends too, which I'm crediting to the Quattro drivetrain. This is all in the dry - where Quattro really excels, it is said, is in wet weather which I've yet to come across. Best of all, the whole car is complemented rather than disabled by the 5-speed manual, which happens to be rather sweet too. That said, for stop start work, I'd still prefer a good auto. I honestly didn't think a large saloon could defy physics like this seems to. Within minutes you can be close to the limits having the time of your life like you can't in any other large car I have ever driven, whilst never, even once, cursing the size and weight of the A6, or even, after a while, bothering to keep them in the back of your mind. This recalibrated my impressions of the capabilities of saloon cars. And I have driven 3 different new 3-series BMWs prior to this.

The 5 valve-per-cylinder (30-valve) 2.8 V6 is fairly lacking in torque, and thats my main problem with the car as a whole. It feels quick in the higher rev ranges though, where it is also super smooth, and it sounds great throughout, certainly a lot nicer mechanically and at the exhaust than the E240. I only averaged 21.7 MPG on my trip though (!!), though that was with hard driving I usually don't enjoy and therefore don't bother with in... any other cars I regularly use, the 190E being closest but nothing like as focused.

Anyone who has sat in a recent Audi will also already know the class and build of the interiors is miles above anything Mercedes has managed in ages. This particular car has been maintained by our garage for around 3 years and has been problem free, like most A6's tend to be.

Someone else, please back me up here with late model A6 experiences

So, how can I show I'm serious? I'm putting my money where my mouth is, and have decided to buy it, from my dad.

markcincinnati · July 2003

Wow -- nice half hour show on two remarkable cars.

Since there is no action on the RS6 board, I thought I would ask here.

Audi A6

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