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Audi A6

18384868889136

Comments

  • bargamonbargamon Member Posts: 302
    First mention of it anywhere! Was the model, this EURO mode a Quattro?? I can imagine a US spec in just an auto, but not a euro.

    Yes, on my allroad, my right Knee hits the console, and after a year it is getting annoying.

    Two more years to go, so I really am just lurking here. But I love my allroad!
  • loslobos71loslobos71 Member Posts: 28
    hey, did the 2005 A6 feel more luxurious or better made then the 2.7T you own? Was the MMI confusing? You said "Cloth Seats"-- does that mean it doesn't come standard with leather? Overall, was this a car that you would consider buying over the 2.7T? "No bells and whistles" such as......? Thanks!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Leather is standard "leather seating surfaces" -- the MMI is a color version and there are many standard features, four option packages and about 10 or 12 isolated options.

    These remarks are all about the 3.2 ONLY. The 4.2 adds several optional features that are avail on the 3.2 and one that is unavail -- power steering column.

    Premium Package
    -sunroof
    -adaptive bi-xenons
    -bose
    -wood trim

    Convenience Package
    -auto mirrors
    -compass
    -memory for seat and mirrors
    -homelink
    -trip comp.
    -storage package
    -nets

    Sport Package
    -sport suspension
    -18" wheels with 40 series performance tires @ 245

    Winter Package
    -heated f&r seats
    -ski sack
    -headlight washers

    DVD Navi
    Rear Seat Airbags
    Voice Activation for navi,radio,phone,bidet,CD,etc
    Tire Pressure Monitoring
    Power rear, manual side shades
    Premium Leather
    Sport seats, requiring premium leather
    Sat Radio
    Rear-only parktronic
    Advanced key entry

    There are several wheel options (17" and 18") too.

    That is all I know today.
  • loslobos71loslobos71 Member Posts: 28
    So i went to my dealer...and there it was. Beautiful. In navy blue with this awesome black cloth for interior--too bad that wont be available =[. Anyway...The Car was great. The MMI was easy to use, nice Nav System, A lot of room, A lot (but NOT too many) tech features (such as a power glove box opener) and other stuff. Also had a huge trunk. Anyway, off to Sleepaway Camp... have a nice summer

    (these were my dads reactions too FYI)
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    Sounds like they were pretty good reactions too. Can't wait to have a look at it myself.
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    Have any new A6 owners had any concerns with the reliability of the car so far?
  • plinaplina Member Posts: 61
    Does anyone knows when is Audi going to come out with a deacent navigation system?
    I have been looking at the A6 but I will not buy a car without NAV.
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    Saw a 2005 A6 3.2V6 at Don Rosen Imports in the Philly suburbs this past Monday night (a stratos blue Euro version with a 6-speed manual). Dealer couldn't say with certainty when the 4.2V8 Order Guide, initial pricing (only that the base may be $51K to start), or first U.S. cars would be in his showroom.

    Info. on any of the foregoing would be greatly appreciated when anyone gets it.

    P.S. Went to the dealer yesterday and got a chance to drive it; didn't seem as quick as a 2004 2.7T manual , but quite a blast anyway!!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    As near as I can tell from the Audi web site, the A6 is available with a 6-Speed manual transmission in FWD configuration only, if you want the Quattro you are forced into the 6-Speed Tiptronic. So, I gotta ask, was the car you drove FWD or AWD?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    You are correct that the A6 I drove was an FWD model.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    In the US, there will be no clutched models, period. At least that is what the current order guide says.

    Quattro = tiptronic 6spd

    FWD = CVT (shiftless, in effect)

    No current mention of DSG or, alas, manual.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    &!@>?*)~%

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .all have or will have full color moving map DVD navi systems. Say amen!
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    My understanding is that you are correct: for the forseeable future, there will not be any U.S. spec. A6's with a 6-speed manual transmission.
    That's what made the A6 6-speed (not CVT) I drove an extra treat.

    My dealer didn't know why A of A sent them a Euro version A6 (albeit with
    Michigan plates), along with a trainer from Auburn Hills. (Last month,
    New Country Audi in Greenwich, CT had the copper red U.S. spec. A6 4.2V8
    that was in the NY Auto show in for their training sessions. It was a
    real stunner!!).
  • johnejohne Member Posts: 17
    Just returned from the local dealer where they had a 2005 A6,Canyon Red, 4.2L for sales training for one day. My old 1998 A6 is not in the same Universe. Color unusual, but an eye-catcher...liked it. Handled great...more BMW-like. Took it up a tight, rough road, very nimble. Nice, beautiful, good sized interior, big trunk. Grill is awesome. An A +. Based on test of 3.2 TT, that's enough motor. Watch out 5 series.
  • bmwcccbmwccc Member Posts: 234
    Weird that the car did not seem as fast. Audi says the new 2005 A6 3.2 is 0-60 in 6.8 which is the same ( relatively ) as the 2.7T 0-60 in 6.7

    I don't know how they are going to charge 5-7k more for the 4.2 over the 3.2.
  • johnejohne Member Posts: 17
    4.2 is great, but for my money $5K more is not worth it. I have a 225 hp, 330xi now, and that's plenty fast for me. Sign me up for the 3.2 at 250hp +.

    How much for convenience package? Seems like the best feature of that package is dimming mirrors and homelink. rest of package....not sure?
    6.8...6.7, try to measure that...
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The last manual A6 2.7T was (mfg data) 0-60 in 6.0 seconds flat. The current auto only A6 2.7T Sline (the only way you can get one) is rated at 0-60 in 6.4 seconds flat.

    Indeed, as I read through the product literature of the time (into 2003) the A6 2.7T was the quickest Audi of them all. This changed, of course, when the V8 S4 came to town. But, I still lament, somewhat, that the new A6 A: does not offer a 6spd manual and B: that its performance does NOT rival the outgoing similarly priced A6 2.7T Sline.

    The thinking must be that the public won't know, won't remember, etc. For many, putting out between $45 and $50K and who are in age from their early forties to early fifties (in age), perhaps this is of seconday importance. The relatively small change in accerlation offered by the 4.2 comes at a hefty price in fuel and up front costs.

    As a lover of the Audi V8, I have to say that the cost, upfront, is "almost" worth it. Having had three Audi 4.2L V8 cars, I can assure you that there was a noticable difference between a 2000 A6 4.2 and 2.7T and ditto in the 2001 A6's -- the 4.2 felt stronger, more powerful and sounded sweeeeeeeter than any engine in a performance luxury car had ever sounded this side of an A8.

    Now, I am older (and perhaps wiser and probably more "been there done that" frugal) and I'm thinking the Acura 3.5L V6 or the new Audi 3.2L V6 will provide plenty of power -- I kinda wish for the manual tranny to eke out another .3 seconds over the tip, though.

    Know what? Probably the A6 with the 3.2L will -- in subsequent years -- have power boosts. Horsepower creep is almost a foregone conclusion.
  • jodarjodar Member Posts: 53
    I called three dealers to obtain viscosity recommendations for my A6. I received three different answers. One stated it didn't matter as long as it was the same, the second dealer (the one I go for service) stated 15w40 and the last one said 10w30 is 'fine.' Lower viscosity ratings are unnecessary for this region (East coast), or so I'm told. My regular dealer stated that as the car ages, a thicker oil makes more sense (15w40) as it less likely to leak through seals and other parts. I suppose that makes sense.

    My dealer told me that it is okay to keep the oil unchanged for 10,000 miles! I've never heard of such a thing. The thing is they don't use synthetic but Valvoline 15w40. Synthetic is okay as long as you're consistent with it. Oil filters vary but didn't recommend a particular brand over another.

    As far as changing the oil, myself, it was initially a bear to get that whole engine shield plate off. I now realize that you don't have to completely remove it. I now just unscrew the front bolts (3 of them) and the rear middle one. This facilitates the shield to come down, though it is still attached at the rear end points.

    You can then slip an oil drip pan right underneath, without having to use a lift, and unscrew both the oil pan screw and filter. If you've got fat hands or are big bodied, you won't be able to get under the car. It is tricky to reattach the bolts to the engine shield plate, but once you get the first one, you just shift the plate around until you find the right hole and voila, its done!

    Why pay the dealer $125 for a 15-25 minute job you can do yourself?
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    Just to keep the dialog going, the Audi.co.uk web site shows these 0-62 mph times for the 2005 A6 models on sale there now:

    For the 3.2V6 Tiptronic: 7.1 sec.'s; and for the 4.2V8 Tiptronic: 6.1 sec's (which, for all practical purposes, would make it about as quick as the no longer available U.S 2004 A6 2.7 Turbo 6-speed manual).

    In addition, last night another Philly suburban Audi dealer, who had the same 2005 A6 I saw on Monday night in his showroom, told me that the 2005 A6 4.2 V8 will probably have air suspension as an available option (at least by early 2005). Mark, given all the Audi's you've had, what has been your experience with air suspension, particularly in dealing with bumpy city streets with lots of potholes?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    #1 The air suspension will be made available sometime in calendar 2005. I was not aware that it would be limited to the V8.

    #2 The air suspension, as I have read about it particularly in the A8 makes it somewhat difficult to answer your question. The basis for the A8 (and I assume A6) air suspension is the allroad's air suspension. In this respect, the air suspension has little if anything to do with bumpy city streets and potholes.

    The air suspension is not real-time dynamic in the way that you perhaps might expect (or want) it to be.

    The air suspension effects the ride height of the the car which, in turn, does affect the ride, handling, coefficient of drag, etc. So, I guess you could say the air suspension on its softest setting could make the car ride more comfortably over pot holes, and bumpy city streets.

    It is, however, my considered opinion that the base "stiffness" of the ride insofar as ride quality is a function of spring stiffness will be, even in its softest position still pretty sporty.

    Just because it says air suspension don't go thinking "pillow soft" ride. Indeed, there is at least one school of thought that says the air suspension may even be stiffer.

    Other aspects of the new A6 will come into play:

    A: the chassis is 34% stiffer on the new A6 than the outgoing one

    B: the new car weighs 150#'s less than the outgoing car

    c: the new car has less unsprung weight than the outgoing car

    d: "evolutionary" suspension improvements that "just happen" will be in effect in the new A6

    The air suspension should make the A6 able to go from sporty to sportier to sportiest simply by the fact that the air suspension raises or lowers the ride height of the car and compresses the springs.

    Again, to the extent that the suspension when it is at its highest level will have the most spring travel, the ride over bumps will be "smoothed" somewhat. The air suspension, as I know it on my allroad and on the A8, does not mean the wheel travel vertically is air damped or that the springs themselves are literally made of compressed (a little to a lot) air. Springs, conventional coiled "metal" springs are still there with all their advantages and limitations intact.

    The A6 3.2L currently offers a sport suspension option -- lower by 20mm, lower profile tires -- it will probably be firmer than the standard suspension. At this point, I have nothing to complain about with my allroad's suspension -- I run it about 50% of the time on as low and stiff as it will go about 40% of the time on the next higest level and about 10% of the time on the next highest level. The only time I ever use the highest level is when I run through drive-through car washes, cause the wheel wells are cleaned better with the car at its maximum ride height.

    I, based on what I know now, would not be motivated on a sedan to acquire the Audi TEVES (?) air suspension. Now Cadillac's Magnaride is a different subject as is the Audi RS 6 suspension system (diagonally linked shocks that provide hydraulic real-time anti-roll inhibition.

    The Audi system, thus far for me, has been more of a novelty rather than a useful feature (but, in the case of my allroad, it NEVER strays offroad -- for other folks who do go off road, well they may love this feature).

    I would be just fine leaving my Audi on the lowest level forever if I had to do so.

    The new A6 with the sport suspension will be, I'm almost certan, just fine and dandy. It would only be better if I could get a 6spd manual!!!!
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    Mark:

    Thanks for your detailed response to my question about air suspension.

    I, like you, am very disappointed that Audi has chosen not to bring a 3.2 V6 6-speed manual to the U.S. for 2005. Given that, I plan to order a 2005 A6 4.2V8 (when the Order Guide and pricing for it become known).

    I was inquiring about air suspension to see if it would help soften the ride for the times my wife is in the car with me, and we're driving on bumpy city streets. Like you, I prefer stiffer suspension and, when driving alone, don't mind the bumpy roads at all.

    Given your experiece and input, I'll now probably forego ordering the air suspension. Thanks for saving me some money!!
  • tommtomm Member Posts: 31
    Auditor - have my name on Stratos Blue'05 A6 3.2 coming into Mass. in Oct/Nov. - tell me what you think of the color (the paint chip in the sales book was not instructive) - grey leather interior. Other options = silver/blk (I have a '01 2.7T like that now) and canyon red - dealer says "too much red for that size car" (maybe a blk/tan one? - I might like that - tuff to keep looking clean as we all know). Thanx -Tomm
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    Mark:

    Thanks for your detailed response to my question about air suspension.

    I, like you, am very disappointed that Audi has chosen not to bring a 3.2 V6 6-speed manual to the U.S. for 2005. Given that, I plan to order a 2005 A6 4.2V8 (when the Order Guide and pricing for it become known).

    I was inquiring about air suspension to see if it would help soften the ride for the times my wife is in the car with me, and we're driving on bumpy city streets. Like you, I prefer stiffer suspension and, when driving alone, don't mind the bumpy roads at all.

    Given your experiece and input, I'll now probably forego ordering the air suspension. Thanks for saving me some money!!
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    Tomm - The stratos blue I saw earlier this week (on Mon., Tues. & Wed.)
    was a very nice medium blue, i.e., much lighter than the very dark midnight blue pearl, but not washed out. Actually, if you like blue, it's worth considering.

    As to Canyon Red, I believe some clarification from Audi is needed.
    The 2005 A6 4.2 V8 I saw at the dealer in Greenwich, CT a month ago was a very orangey Copper Red Pearl, which is what the 3.2 V6 Order Guide I got earlier this week says will be available.

    However, both the dealers in Phila. who had the stratos blue 3.2 V6 on display on succeeding nights showed me a small brochure on the forthcoming 3.2 V6 with color chips - that brochure had a Canyon Red Pearl paint chip that was a very rich burgundy color. It resembles
    the color in some of the pix in the very in depth review of the new A6
    of about two months ago on www.germancarfans.com. Both of the dealers
    I spoke to were totally unclear as to whether Copper Red or Canyon Red
    would actually be coming.

    The exterior colors I'm considering (equally for the moment)for my A6 4.2 V8 are silver, midnight blue and canyon red (if it comes and I can see what it looks like first), all with the amaretto & black interior.

    Hope this helps. Let me know if you get any clarification on Canyon or
    Copper Red.
  • bmwcccbmwccc Member Posts: 234
    Auditor, I am deciding between the 3.2 and the 4.2. I just am having a hard time swalling the 5-7k dollar increase for the extra 80 horsepower and 1 sec faster 0-60.

    What is your thought process for instantly paying more and jumping to the 4.2?

    Thanks
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    bmwccc:

    Late last year, I was seriously considering an A6 2.7 Turbo 6-speed (with its 6 sec. 0-60 time) when I learned that the '05 A6 would be "all new."

    So, I put off buying the 2.7 T foolishly hoping that the '05 non-turbo A6 would be available with a 6-speed. By the time (early 2005) it was clear Audi wasn't going to bring in any 6-speed manuals, I test drove a 2.7 T S-line Tiptronic and, for the hell of it, an A8L (which is quite fast for such a big car, but a much larger car than I need or want).

    The S-line was great, but the speed and sound of the A8's engine really impressed me. Then, I learned that for 2005, Audi will bring in a standard wheelbase A8, but the base MSRP (I just learned) is $66,590 plus $720 for delivery, etc., etc.). That would bring a fairly well equipped A8 to about $70,500. And, I really don't want to spend that much and I'm not after a luxury sedan.

    So, the '05 A6 4.2 V8, which I'm guessing will come in at about $55 to
    $56K when I equip it, seemed like a good compromise. I'd get a close to
    6 sec. 0-60 car with very sporty cockpit-like seating for the driver in a car that's large enough for me with as much power as the A8, but for
    $15K less. And, since the A8 4.2 will most likely have as standard a number items the A6 3.2 will treat as options, I didn't think the spread would be more than $4 or $5K. Given that I tend to keep cars too
    long, I've rationalized that over a long period of time a few thousand
    more would be worth the pleasure I'm sure I'll get.
  • bmwcccbmwccc Member Posts: 234
    Sounds very interesting. However, Ibbelieve the 2005 A6 4.2 is 0-60 in 5.9 sec. The 05' 4.2 A6 has the S4 engine in it which has 8 more pounds of torque, 5 less horse power and should be only 100lb heavier than the S4. The S4 clocks in 0-60 in 5.6 sec so 5.9 sec. published sounds very realistic.

    I keep hearing about the sound of the V8 but have never driven one. I went to a dealer to check out the A6 04'4.2 and 2.7T but was mauled by an idiot. In 5 min. he showed me 4 cars I wasn't interested in and 2 of them were used. I am going to go back over the 4th of July to a dealership near my folks that is very upscale, professional and knows what they are talking about. I can look at the above mentioned and eventually compare it to the 05' models.

    I guess I need to drive the 3.2 and 4.2 and determine if the extra $ are ultimately worth it. I am also looking for someone to talk me into the 4.2 as you and Mark have.

    Thanks
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    I, too, plan to drive the '05 A6 4.2 before I firm up an order for one, just to make sure it's what I hope it'll be. And, since I get a big kick out of test driving everything new I might be interested in, I'm sure I'll test both the A6 3.2 and A8 std. wheelbase, as well, if the dealers I've been talking to don't kill me first!! So, I agree that you should really test drive both of them and see what feels best for you.

    As to the S4, my older son (who lives and works in Berleley, CA) was visiting us in Philly a few weeks ago and, as he and I always do, we
    went test driving. First, to an Audi dealer in Cherry Hill, NJ (whom I
    hadn't even begun to pester) to drive an '04 S4 Avant 6-speed manual because he's determined to buy one some day when he can afford to.
    Driving that S4 was truly exhilerating and just made me even more determined to get an '05 A6 4.2!! Then, we tested a Suburu WRX sti just for the hell of it. What a blast!! Looks and feels like a tin can (we
    thought the scoop on the hood was gonna come off, since it kept shaking the faster we went), but goes like a bat out of you know where.

    If you get to test drive the '05 A6 3.2 and 4.2 later this summer or early fall, let me/us know what you think; and, I'll do the same.
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    bmwccc:

    To give you a little more incentive to go for an '05 A6 4.2, following is a list of the items I understand (from an Audi of America preliminary specifications sheet I got last month from the Audi dealer in Greenwich, CT) will be standard on the 4.2 but are options (either in a package or individually) on the 3.2:

    Dimming/folding exterior mirrors with memory
    Adaptive Bi-Xenon headlights w/washers
    17" (rather than 16") alloy wheels
    3 position memory for driver's seat and mirrors
    Volterra leather upholstery w/door panel inserts
    Wood interior trim
    4-spoke leather steering wheel w/MULTIFUNCTION
    Sunroof
    Homelink

    Seemed to me the above itmes accounted for a good part of the potential $5 to $7K differential you
    mentioned in your first message to me of last night. BTW, if you like a copy of the printed info. I got, give me a fax # and I'll send all 3 pages to you.
  • bmwcccbmwccc Member Posts: 234
    Auditor

    I live near your son about an hour an a half south of him in Santa Cruz,Ca. I need to get into more test drives and am taking my Dad over the 4th with me for fun. Have to take out the 04'S4 to feel that V8 cause that is the exact engine going into the 05' A6 4.2.

    You do the same if you test drive each, I am sure once people start actively driving them later this year these posts are going to go crazy.
  • bmwcccbmwccc Member Posts: 234
    Auditor

    You are awesome. I have been laughing for the past 2 min. This is exactly the justification I need to push myself over the edge to the 4.2.

    I already decided I was going to get the following packages:

         Premium - sunroof, multifunction steering wheel, xenon, wood trim and upgraded bose system.

         Conveince - folding mirrors, auto dimming, compass, seat memory and trip computer.

         Upgraded leather?

    I will be interested to find out how much these packages are because they will lower the gap between the 3.2 and the 4.2.

    Auditor, that would be great to fax that to me. Could you send it to 831 476 0356 and put Attn: Chris C.

    Thanks for that!
  • johnejohne Member Posts: 17
    It's weird, the car I saw was very orange...almost like a burnt orange. It was called Canyon Red, according to the dealer. The paint chip in the 05 A6 book at the dealer, in the sun, looked like it matched the car and was more orange. In the shade, the paint chip looked more red. That may account for differences in the picture on web sites (including Edmunds). The A6 Microsite, under options, talks about new colors including "cooper red" (not Canyon Red). The dealer told me that the color will be the more orangish color and that there will only be one "red"... In the site section under 360 degree views, exterior, it definitely looks more like the more orangeish color. It's pretty, but bold!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    It would be a "sin" to get the 4.2 without the sport suspension package, IMHO.
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    How, in your opinion, would air suspension in the '05 A6 4.2 (which you convinced me yesterday wouldn't be much help in softening the ride over my bumpy city streets), and using it in the lowest/most dynamic setting compare to just getting sport suspension (without air suspension)?
  • bmwcccbmwccc Member Posts: 234
    Mark, I don't really like the look of 18" rims, 17" are fine but 18" get too pimpy looking for me. I think the suspension is already going to be a major upgrade from the 04 A6 4.2.

    The other changes to the sport suspension are tires so not really worth it to me. Plus if I am trying to jump myself up to the 4.2 I really don't want to add more $ for something that does not add a lot of value. I am mentally struggling now for the hike in price from the 3.2 to the 4.2.
  • bmwcccbmwccc Member Posts: 234
    Auditor, you get a chance to fax over that info?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I hate to give half-baked answers, so I'll try to give you enough information to make an educated decision.

    My 1997 A8 had the standard suspension, I ordered the S8 suspension kit and had the Audi dealer put it on for me (lower springs, swaybars, struts, lower profile and wider tires). Big diff in handling, little diff in ride quality.

    Bought a 2000 A6 4.2 w/standard suspension but 17" wheel/tire option. Due to my obsession to have ESP, traded that in on a 2001 A6 4.2 w/ sport package -- again big diff in handling (mostly in cornering, in that the body roll was almost eliminated). Don't leave home without it.

    Bought a 2003 allroad 2.7T with 6speed manual, immediately put on 18" wheels and 45 series tires and wider tires, also put on REAR Audi-sport anti-sway bar and had the Audi technician "fool" my air suspension computer into "lowering" the ride height by 12mm (making it about the same as the A6 4.2 sport suspension ride height). This combination transformed the allroad into "almost" an A6 4.2 sport in terms of handling and with the switchout of the stock turbo by-pass-valves for sport BPV's, my 6spd manual allroad became a threat to A6 4.2s in terms of accelerative (and as mentioned handling) prowess.

    I understand the cost issue, I understand and disagree about the lower profile tires and 18" wheels, vs the 17" wheels. Which sorta kills my next "alternative" suggestion, which was, if you didn't want to consider the full-blown sport suspension option that you should at the very least get the upsized wheels and tires, which, in my opinion will get you about 60% of the benefit of the whole sport set up, just as long as you realize there will be a bit more body roll.

    You have to drive the car and it has to make you happy. If you don't like the lower profile tires and 1" bigger wheels,the correct thing for you to do is avoid them. At least consider the high performance tires -- the 4.2 is a blast to drive and it will make you want to tackle the twisties with full-gusto.

    My personal tastes are to go with the maximum sporty suspension -- and that is right for ME. Under no circumstances am I suggesting that the stock set up and 17" wheels and tires are somehow weak or bad. I prefer the lower body roll and the extra grip. Just agree to disagree, there is no right or wrong thing to do in this regard -- I explained my preferences and made my opinionated comments based on my biases. You will be delighted with the stock set-up, I only suggest one thing: test drive both a stock and sport set up. If the "look" still gets you, so be it, if the improvement in cornering grabs your attention, well then, go for that.

    I believe MY allroad set to the lowest level (with the mods I noted above) is ~ the equivalent of the A6 sport suspension. But, never having driven an 05 A6 period, I can only speculate that the new A6 will -- even in stock, non-sport mode -- have a tighter suspension and crisper handling.

    The ride quality of the new A6 should be better too, due in no small part to the added 34% torsional rigidity of the new model.

    I hope this helps.
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    How, in your opinion, would air suspension in the '05 A6 4.2 (which you convinced me yesterday wouldn't be much help in softening the ride over my bumpy city streets), and using it in the lowest/most dynamic setting compare to just getting sport suspension (without air suspension)?
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    bmcc:

    I faxed 5 pages to you about 4 hours ago. If you didn't get them, let me know and I'll send them again.
  • bmwcccbmwccc Member Posts: 234
    Auditor, i will go check the fax. Thanks in advance for the help. Lets keep up the chatter on this inc. test drives etc.

    Later
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    bmwccc: I just sent you the 5 pages, again. Let me know if you got them.
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    Mark:

    I've read and reread your very much appreciated detailed explanation of air suspension in message #208, plus your comments in other of your messages about the pluses of sport suspension in, for example, an A6 4.2V8.

    One further question: Can a 2005 A6 4.2 V8 equipped with sport suspension also have air suspension, or are the two somewhat redundant "systems" or "setups" incompatible?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    It is my understanding, thus far, on the subject of the air suspension and sport suspension that there are "two variables" that, at this time I can ONLY speculate on: wheel/tire system and f+r anti-swaybars.

    On the sport suspension set up, Audi traditionally has done the following:

    1. lower ride height (usually 20mm sometimes, rarely, as much as 35mm lower) and of course stiffer springs.

    2. roll bar diameter -- on the A6 vs sport A6 the roll bars are 20% larger on the sport suspension than on the standard suspension

    3. "strut damping" 'improvement' to provide less jounce and quicker recovery from spring compression and expansion

    4. at the very least lower profile tires (the so called "plus zero" size change or "plus one" size change (often accompanied by a change to a higher performance tire --UHP or MAX, "summer only" tires).

    These steps are sometimes further enhanced with the swapping out of the comfort seats for sport seats which contribute to the driver's butt staying in place in, shall we say, twisty driving feats. And, sometimes even further changes to brake pads and/or the entire braking system accompany all this engineering magic.

    The above is "as it is today and as it has been for some time." However, these "static" changes do not exactly track when the subject of the current A8, allroad and RS 6 are included in the discussion.

    The RS 6 does, as you may know, all the above and it does NOT have an air suspension, but it does have the ability to further control roll articulation via an "X" design of the "shock absorbers." During cornering where body roll would normally happen the appropriate "shocks" are stiffened reducing body roll dynamically, more precisely and appropriately for the g forces being generated than merely the anti-sway bars and bushings could ever do. The RS 6 system is a passive-dynamic system. It has no intelligence no active brain that causes changes in the suspension system.

    The A8 (and the somewhat similar system in the allroad) has struts and springs and anti-swaybars just like a normal car. Additionally it has four air-filled bladders that can be pumped-up or decompressed. Add air and one thing happens, subtract air and the opposite happens.

    Generally speaking what this "thing" that happens is, is as follows: ride height starts at level 1 and can be increased in steps to levels 2,3 & 4. Each step changes the dynamic capabilities of the car and if set on full-auto mode, the ride height will raise and lower in response to certain speed related trigger points. But do not confuse this active suspension trait with a so-called "active suspension." For example, if the suspension is set to level 3 and a certain speed in attained the suspension will lower itself to level 2 (decreasing the coefficient of drag and stiffening the springs). This ride height change happens gradually perhaps taking a minute -- this is not a change that happens in response to entering a curve such as the RS 6 suspension. Indeed, if the curve would be entered at the threshold speed of the suspension (to lower itself) and the corner is being negotiated, the suspension will actually "pause" until the curve has been negotiated and the chassis is returned to a more or less flat attitude. At higher speeds yet the suspension will again lower itself to minimum ride height, maximum stiffness and all the accompanying attributes such ride height and spring compression carry, will be realized. It is a good system. It is not an active handling in on-line, real-time, big-time show-time (say that really fast) speed.

    Think of this system, as good as it is and with many benefits as a major evolution of automatic load leveling (remember when you used to put all your luggage in the back of your Caddy and it would level itself out?) Indeed, the Audi will compensate for the rear load by raising the rear end, just like your father's Cadillac.

    What I do not know is if, in the air-suspension model, the associated hardware (as listed in #1 - #4 above) is set to the same level of sporty minded-ness. With the air suspension, for example, are the roll bars automatically 20% thicker (they we're NOT on my allroad, I had to buy the sport anti-sway bar from Audi). Are the tires plus sized and up-rated to a grippier status? Are the other potential associated changes in the "plain old" sport mode faithfully carried out with the air suspension?

    I do not know.

    I read a lot of articles, web sites and other car-info, and I have been unable to get clarification on this aspect.

    So, as usual, I'll give my opinion and qualify it as such: I believe the ride height at level 1 of the "new '05 A6" air suspension will be ~ the same as the sport suspension. I believe the sport suspension will have the edge (when ordered as the "Sport Package") over the air suspension at level one, assuming the air-suspension does not come with plus sized wheels and tires and thicker anti-roll bars and sport struts.

    The current set-up of the air suspension as I understand it on the A8L is further sported-up in the "S8" version (I know, I know, we're talking futures). So I draw the conclusion that the sport suspension is, despite the similar ride height comparison to level 1 of the air suspension, still the sportiest of the two (and lower in cost for obvious reasons).

    I have had ZERO problems with my air suspension'd allroad (a 2003 model). If I could have purchased the car with just a sport suspension -- for less cost -- I would have, due to the limited value I perceive in this feature.

    I like to keep the suspension as low as it will go, for the performance improvements it supplies, most of the time. And, if I were told "you must keep it in level one" -- well, that would be fine with me.

    Assuming I move forward with the new A6 for 05, I will order the sport suspension, period. I will further clarify: knowing what I KNOW at this juncture, I would get the sport suspension over the air suspension even if they were the same price. My opinion would changed, ONLY, if I found that the air suspension had the other sporty attributes mentioned above.

    If I had a magic wand, I would want the RS 6 suspension (and brakes and seats) over either of these choices, however.

    I hope this helps.
  • bmwcccbmwccc Member Posts: 234
    Hey Guys, just went on Audi's site for the 5oth time but noticed a new link named: Explore the 2005 A6. (Not the On the Horizon one though!)

    On this micro site shows some new screen saver and wallpaper photos. This is such a nice car, I am really liking the front grill and like the rear much better than the 04'. The interior is super nice as well.

    Anyway, a question I have for you guys back east that have seen some of the cars or paint chips is what color is the car that shows the 2 rear shots? Some sort of Gray i think?

    They are also saying 0-100 kmp in 6.1, does that usually translate to 0-60 in 5.9-6.0?????
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    0-62 in 6.1 i suppose? Probably something like what you said
  • hjcanterhjcanter Member Posts: 31
    I think that color is the oyster gray. I might go with the beige though. I like the lighter color interior.
  • bmwcccbmwccc Member Posts: 234
    Auditor

    Thanks for sending over those spec sheets. I think you are going to be right about the $ difference being narrowed with a loaded 3.2 vs. the 4.2 having the same features standard.

    I called my dealer and they have no idea when they are getting the new A6's to the showroom, I am going to test drive a couple 04's anyway. S4 for sure to feel the V8, A6 4.2 04'to feel the room etc.

    Did you check out there new micro site they have added? Check on a previous post I put a day or two ago.

    Thanks Again!
  • auditorauditor Member Posts: 63
    bmwccc:

    Let me know how the '04 A6 4.2 you test feels to drive, as well as how it sounds. Also, whether it was one with sport suspension or not. (You may recall from some of my earlier posts that I'm considering getting an '05 A6 4.2 with air suspension so that I can use the comfort setting in the city, but then be able switch to the lower, dynamic (more sporty) setting when I'm on less bumpy streets or roads.

    While I'm waiting for all the '05's, I may go test an '04 A6 4.2 (w/o
    sport suspension), too, along with an '04 A8L (w/air suspension) just to see if air suspension is worth waiting for.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    If you want to see if the air suspension is worth it, take a new allroad V8 out for a long drive; try the air suspension at the four settings and see what you think.

    You might also take an A8L out for a long drive -- my belief is this (both cars back to back) will give you a sense of what the suspension will do -- remember the A8L has a much longer wheelbase, the allroad may be a more accurate representaion -- just a thought.

    I cannot for the life of me think that this suspension is worth the premium I have heard it will command. But that is because I use mine so rarely.

    I have tried recently to determine if the differences justify the cost -- I have gone from level 3 to level 1 over a variety of surfaces and at equal to or less than 50MPH. The suspension on level 3 loses some "precision" -- the car bounces more, but I guess one view of the increased bounciness is that it is softer. It makes me feel the car is a little "sloppy" in the handling department and I think the ride quality actually deteriorates even though I suspect it could translate into some perceived softness.

    I have not deliberately run it into pot holes at the various settings, I just can't bring myself to do that, even in the interest of science.

    Remember that the tire/wheel system is a big component of ride quality.

    I am coming to the conclusion that the sport suspension and the air suspension are mutually exclusive. In any case, I am coming to think that the sport suspension and level 1 of the air suspension, even if they are at similar ride heights and spring compression are NOT the same and that the anti-roll bars and struts are stiffer on the sport model.

    Please let us know your impression of the long allroad and A8L test drives.
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