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It took a bit of time to find a spot to get a purchase on the pan and pry it loose. I wound up pulling the left front tire and using a long gasket scraping tool to drive between the pan and the transmission. There is a tab at the left front of the transmission that gave me a place to pry against. The RTV sealant sticks pretty well, but I went with a cork gasket. I worry about some of the RTV breaking loose and gluing the inside of my transmission together.
The dealer sold me the wrong filter, so I had to make a run to the parts counter to get the correct one. Apparently Chrysler used a different transmission on this engine when they switched to ATF+4 in June 2001. Not sure but mine has a 13-bolt pan and they initially sold me a filter and gasket for a 14-bolt pan. I had to take the old filter and a tracing of the pan with me to get the right kit.
Anyway, I actually got more fluid out than I expected. The transmission holds 9 quarts and the manual indicated I would get 4.5 quarts out. I actually got closer to 6 out, which is pretty acceptable. ATF+4 may be synthetic but heat works it over pretty well. The fluid was much more brown than I would have liked, and most of the miles on it are highway. I won't go 45,000 miles between services again.
Chrysler charges $8 a quart for ATF+4. None of the local parts stores carry it. Anyone find a source for this stuff other than the dealer?
the lh cars have always come with and only with the 42le tranny. however, it is possible that they changed the design of the transmission case at some point...
Chrysler's probably made enough changes to that tranny over the years, that different years, and even some different cars within the same year, have something different about the tranny. For instance, didn't they actually make minor changes to it twice in '00 or '01?
I shared this story last fall and thought I'd do it again--just to bring the matter to your attention. First--the second gen Intrepid has ALWAYS required ATF+4. Not the first gen (93-97)... In the fall I had my local auto store (in this case Strauss Auto) do some work on my 2000 ES. They have always done so competently in the past. I spoke to two separate people about the ATF+4 issue--because I wanted my tranny drained, filter changed and fluid replaced. Yes..yes..yes... As with MOST auto supply store they do not carry +4. Long story short they put in +3--which I saw on the sheet when I picked it up. MADE them call the Dodge manager who promptly said.."drain it immediately, flush it with some +4, then refill with +4, DON'T drive it.."
In short--remind, remind, remind.. Though I don't believe--and the data hasn't supported-- the "transmission hysteria" some of our neurotic detractors report--this would certainly explain some difficulties..
How long do you think we can run these things? I am shooting for 10 years and 180,000 miles but will probably not have that many in that short a time. Just over 4 years now and only 65,000 on the '99 ES 3.2.
Currently also have:
1991 Acura Legend with 147,000 (Head gasket only major repair so far)--Daughter's college car
1990 Aerostar van 4.0 Liter 144,000 (Transmission at 133,000)
1990 Spirit 2.5 117,000+ (Odometer broke at that level 3 or 4 years ago). NO REPAIRS!!! What a car that Spirit is. Unbelievably reliable. AC still works, I have converted to 135 Freon.
ES
My driving has decreased a bit, though. I bought the car in early November, 1999, and hit 40,000 miles, oh I'd guess in late January/early Feb of 2001. I delivered pizzas back then though, and also had a round trip from Md to Texas in that timeframe. But then it's taken me almost twice as long to put the next 40K on, and there was still another trip to Texas in there!
Soon, the amount of driving I do may go down again. I'm in the process of trying to buy a house that's only about 3 1/2 miles from work (I'm about 14 right now). If that ends up being the case, I have a feeling my car will die of old age, before wearing out! I'm probably going to drive it until it drops, though. Every once in awhile, I get the urge for a new car, but I think buying the house is going to put a stop to that, at least for a few years!
I talked to someone today with a 99 base model intrepid. He put an outstanding sound system in the car. I did not know that the custom stereo shops sell a replacement panel shaped like the OEM one which can house a rectangular shaped Kenwood unit. I told him that I did not care for the FM reception and he told me the problem was the antenna and wiring to the antenna. SO I may think about buying a new antenna and changing the wiring. He said he spent many years professionally installing car radios and alarm systems. The amp in the trunk was awesome- it cost $500 alone. And he put 19 inch chrome rims on the car and racing tires! Only problem was when he hit potholes... he showed me places where the rim was damaged.
Ed
Ed
Just to let you know, after I posted my previous message, we called a Lemonbuster guy locally. He told us that he has all of his family in Camry's, so, for two days we shopped around for Camry's as well as Avalons (nice! but, small) and Nissan, as well as some of the SUV's out there. We even looked at a Taurus or two (ugh! and the seats are sooo uncomfy!)...the ONLY other vehicle we liked was the Toyota 4Runner...so, at the end of two days we decided that a full size car would fit our needs better right now, and, my husband kept saying, "Nothing we see even compares to the Intrepid!"...meaning that comfy-wise, design-wise, beauty-wise and get-up-and go-wise, none of the other vehicles even came close.
We are happy! What a gorgeous car! Easy to drive...sooo much room, inside and in the trunk!
Thanks again for your responses!
AiMeE
Our '99 ES was called Champagne when we bought it in March '99. Have a great time with it. I still look back at it when leaving the parking lot and think "what a cool looking car" and with all the room inside, little does compare to the Intrepid.
Enjoy the 'Trep
Ed Smith
Great to hear you got the trep. I hope you enjoy it . Feel free to share all your thoughts good or bad with us.
OTTO
I would appreciate your comments on (a) whether I am considering the right questions and (b) whether my opinions are right or wrong.
1. Long term reliability -- big advantage to Toyota.
2. Performance -- not much performance for either car, but presume it to be about equal.
3. Styling - totally subjective, I prefer Intrepid but Camry is OK.
4. Price - excellent value for Intrepid but $4,000 is not too much of a premium so modest advantage to Intrepid.
5. Wife will drive it most -- will put 20,000 miles per year and keep it for 150,000 (so reliability is very important and resale value is not a big concern as we will drive them "until they drop").
6. Kids will start to drive in 2 years, so blind spot (rear visibility) in Intrepid is a negative, as is its larger length (harder to judge where the end is).
Thanks for reading the long message. Appreciate your thoughts tonight as I hope to buy tomorrow (great anticipatory planning, eh?).
2) Performance: if you regularly carry a lot of passengers around, I'd strongly suggest trying to get a few people in the car when you test drive, if possible. When I first test-drove my '00 Intrepid, it was just my uncle and me. Car seemed to perform fine. But the next day, I had 4 people in the car, and needed to merge onto a highway, and the thing couln't get out of its own way! I think that's a general problem with most small engines that have a fairly high amount of hp, but not much torque...they feel the strain of extra weight more than the old, torquey, battlecruisers of the 60's, 70's, and 80's that I was used to. The 4-cyl Camry only has 157 hp and 162 ft-lb of torque, so I'd imagine it would get strained pretty quickly with additional weight. With just one or two people on board though, I'd say both cars would handle about the same. The Intrepid has wider rims and more aggressive tires, so it should handle and corner better. It also has a lower stance, longer wheelbase, and (I think) a wider track, which should all contribute to a more stable, comfortable ride.
3) Styling: I agree here. I thought the Camry was butt-ugly, but it's growing on me. Truthfully though, it took awhile for the Intrepid/Concorde to grow on me, too! I didn't like 'em when they first came out.
4) Price: well, if the extra $4,000 doesn't strain your budget, then it's nothing to worry about. If you trade every few years, you'd easily make it up in better resale for the Camry. But driving them till they drop, you won't. In my case though, I couldn't afford another 50 cents right now! ;-)
5) I currently have about 81,000 miles on my '00, and never any major problems. Lessee, my power lock actuator went out (replaced under warranty at 35K miles), right power mirror went out (left it alone), door seals started shrinking up (but easy to re-adjust), and my thermostat housing needed to be replaced around 51K miles because of a small leak. Otherwise, just regular maintenance, brake pads, filters, tires, etc.
6) Blind spot: I agree completely here. I also have a 1979 New Yorker that's about a foot and a half longer than my Intrepid, but I can parallel park it easier than my Intrepid! I can see, within a few inches, of where that car ends though, so it's real easy to judge, and the stand-up hood ornament and fender-mounted signal indicators make it real easy to aim! With my 'Trep though, I can't see the hood or the decklid, and I'm 6'3"! I don't know how the Camry would be in this respect, either though. You might be able to see a bit more of the hood, but that high rump would probably be harder to see around than on the Intrepid! The Camry also has a thick C-pillar, but I haven't driven one yet, so I honestly don't know how their visibility is.
A few other odds and ends: Going back to the hauling/luggage thing, the Intrepid has a bigger trunk, and non-intrusive struts that hold the trunk open. The Camry has these huge "gooseneck" hinges that can crush items back there, and torsion bars. If you have long legs, you won't like the Camry. My Intrepid barely has enough room for me up front, so the Camry doesn't quite cut it. And with build quality/fit and finish, Toyota seems to have cut a few corners with the latest Camry. It's still a good car, but just no longer feels "head and shoulders" above the rest of the crowd, like they used to back in the day. I'm not sure, but I think the Camry LE still uses drum brakes on back, where the Intrepid is disk all 'round.
Anyway, good luck in whatever you decide! I don't think you can make a bad choice either way. At least, I don't think there's a "winner" or "loser" here...just whichever one you feels suits you the best.
ES
Heck, you can make them go forever if you are willing to spend the money to do it.
Happy 'Trepping
ES
I didn't get around to washing it...got sidetracked doing too many other things. But I gave the interior a good cleaning. I was impressed at how good it still looks for having almost 81,0000 miles on it. The only thing that shows any indication of wear is the steering wheel on the left outer edge. It's peeling a bit, revealing its whitish core.
Still, I remember my first car, a 1980 Malibu, which had about the same mileage when my Mom gave it to me. It was about 7 years old, though, so it had a few more years to age. Still, the dash was cracked in about 3 places. The headliner was starting to let go. Carpet was pulled out from the sill in back (it had done that since it was almost new) and was just showing its age in general. The gear indicator had broken a few years before, eternally stuck over somewhere left of "P", so you had to keep track of how far over you shifted to know which gear you were in. There was also a tear in the vinyl door panel on the passenger side, and the cardboard package shelf in back was starting to distort a bit.
My only other complaint about the 'Trep is that the cloth they use on the seats is like a magnet for lint, fuzz, dog hair, etc!
It'll be interesting to see how this car holds up as it ages.
the 2.7l is a great engine!! just do proper care and feeding (that goes for tranny too) and it'll give years of service. i know there has been some talk about oil sludge with the 2.7l (just like the toyo problem), but if you change your oil every 3-4k miles i doubt you'll have any problems.
btw, what about the 2.7l makes you think it isn't a decent motor?? the motor has been around since late '97 and local shop here says they've never had to tear one down yet!
So basically, don't let the oil get down to two quarts!! That's the level that would trigger the idiot light on my '68 Dart, and then only if you nailed the brakes hard enough, or took a corner too fast.
The 2.7 is a small engine wih a lot of hp but not a lot of torque, so it just has to work harder than the 3.2/3.5 to move the car. Therefore, it's not going to be as forgiving if you slack off on maintenance. Which reminds me, I'm due for an oil change in a few hundred miles...
That $180 is in line with what I was charge about 2 years ago, after my warranty ran out. That was good bargaining there to get yours down to $50. I should have had you with me.
The 300M is essentially the same car as an Intrepid, same with Concorde, and LHS. Just each is tweaked a little differently. We went with Intrepid because of more space than the 300M, and not as ugly from behind as the Concorde (our opinin). The LHS might have been the way to go, but it was another 5 or 6 grand at the time.
Thanks for your comment. We agree that Intrepid is better looking car. Since we had already owned two Intrepids ('95 & '97) we looked forward to the new style Intrepid that came out in '98. I think our '98 is a beautiful car (deep cranberry pearl) but was disappointed when we had the problem with transmission with only 9500 miles. Guess that shows that you should drive the car enough during the warranty period to find out if there are any problems. My husband and I are both retired (since 1998) and drove the '97 58000 miles before selling it to a niece and her husband recently. That's why the '98 had so few miles. We were really disappointed when looking for new car in late February & early March and the current year Intrepids didn't have some features available that both the '97 and '98 had and some things that were previously standard, are now optional items. We have always preferred Mopar cars and felt a little guilty turning to another brand. We ended up purchasing a new Lexus ES300 in March, primarily because of the safety and reliability ratings, though it was more money. This is our first non-US-made car, but after looking at what was available in Intrepids and researching on the internet, decided that might be best for us. We had hoped that with so few miles on the Intrepid, we could expect to drive it as many miles as we did the '97 without a lot of problems. Were dissappointed when we had to replace the driver side window motor (still under warranty in March) and then the transmission problem. Hopefully nothing else will go wrong with it soon. I assume you haven't had more problems since you replaced the sensors.
I didn't realize they changed the tint on the window glass, as well.
My wife drives this car. I consider myself a savy consumer, expecially of cars, but I didn't realize this car didn't have ABS until after we bought it.
As a result, the insurance on the Intrepid is more than $100 more a year than the insurance on our 02 SUV (probably enough to pay for a safer car with ABS over time). It also means I will probably sell the car early rather than pass it down to my daughter when she starts driving (less than two years away) as I planned. Good grief, the 92 Explorer I gave to my son to drive has ABS on the rear wheels.
I agree with others that Chrysler builds a car that technoligically is a cut above Chevy and Ford. I really like driving this car. But even the Ford Taurus has ABS standard. Penny-wise, pound-foolish Daimler-Chrysler. Fool me once, shame on me. Chrysler will not fool me twice. I will never again overlook the basics when buying a car.
funny how it's so easy to blame everyone else for our mistakes, isn't it!!
I also have to confess that when I called the insurance company to get the car added, I played stupid. "Does it have airbags?" "Yup." "Does it have ABS?". "Uuuummmm, I'm not sure. I think it does." "Well, it most likely does, most new cars have it."
So see, it's not my fault. It's not DC's fault. It was my insurance company's fault! ;-)
***disclaimer: a few months later, I switched insurance companies, and came clean with them, telling them that there was no abs.
I've never had a car with ABS, so I really don't know what I'm missing. I don't have a problem with the 'Trep's brakes as they are, but have to admit that, surprisingly, I think the Gran Fury's were a little better! It was a police pursuit though, so its brakes were upgraded considerably over what a normal passenger car of its size and weight would've been back then.
For me, it depends on the tires on the car. The R/T definitely needs ABS for winter stopping because the wider performance tires offers less traction in the snow, but my 92 Taurus did fine without it - narrower all season tires.