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Toyota Avalon 2004 and earlier

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Comments

  • sanandtonsanandton Member Posts: 342
    It appears that I have a stripped XLS no sunroof, no traction control, but it still is a great car. Thanks for the info.
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Sanandton:

    Don't fret buckaboo. Some of us have the XL models. We bought them for different reasons than stated above, although some of the options are very appreciated in the XLS.

    The woodgrain I believe is woodgrain applique, not real wood, plastic looking like wood, I believe. I could be wrong but from my memory had plastic wood. I believe all the XLS's came with sunroofs, so you might have a XL. Not a biggie, since the price difference for wood applique, trac control, sun roof, navigation system, wood steering wheel and 5 disc JBL changer, FOG lights, rear seat courtesy lights was around the 4K mark.

    I was not interested in those items and thought it was a high price for what I call "fufu". Some would argue differently, and that is fine. I did do a little experiment. With that 4K, I bought myself, PIAA bulbs, PIAA 1500 Fog and driving lights, TokicoHP shocks, a set of wheels and HP winter tires, an XMradio, bug/stone guard deflector, trailer Class II hitch, and some other small stuff. It came out less, not much less, but better for me.

    I do like the rain sensing wiper option on the new ones. I think that that is a worthwhile option if they don't put it in a package of worthless crap that is unuseable,and breakable.

    Resale value matters little to us. We keep autos for over 10 years on the average, with over 200K on our past two vehicles.

    Enjoy your Avalon no matter which one you have. They are comfortable and reliable and very useable vehicles.

    abfisch
  • fatguycarfatguycar Member Posts: 38
    I bought a sunroof from American Sunroofs and had it fitted on my Lexus. It was just under $1,000. Now I have an XLS Avalon, and you'd have trouble knowing which roof was standard and which was aftermarket.
  • fred3fred3 Member Posts: 10
    This is a follow-up to my posting last week (#2583, 3/20/04) regarding my inability to get a car with both cloth seats and vehicle stability control. Events following that posting were very surprising:

    1) First, my thanks to abfisch for suggesting I call Toyota and ask about preference orders. As in the past, when I called, they were fairly unhelpful with specific information (e.g., is my desired combination of options available anywhere? can you recommend a dealer?...), simply referring me to a dealer of my choice. However, the one useful piece of information they gave is that I needed to call a dealer and specifically speak to the cusomer relations manager and ask about doing a preference order. I did this, and the CRM said he would get back to me later that day. Later that day, a salesman from the dealer called back and said they could get what I wanted (in either an XL or an XLS) and that it would take 2-3 months. The one problem was that the price was rather high.

    2) I spoke to sales people at 2 other dealerships with whom I had been dealing, explaining the whole situation. Both of them assured me that this was not possible; that Toyota does not make cars with cloth interiors and stability control; one suggested that the only reason the dealer had said they could do a preference order was to bring me into the dealership, so they could sell me something else.

    3) While trying to figure out what to do (i.e., pay the high price for the car with stability control and wait 2-3 months, or simply buy one without stability control), I got a call from a dealer I had contacted early in my search. The salesman said he had an XL with my specificatios in stock - including cloth seats and stability control. Having been told by about 20 sales people that this combination simply didn't exist in this region, I got him to confirm this again, and, still not believing him, got him to fax over a copy of the invoice. To my surprise, it proved correct. I bought the car that day.

    I still have not figured out what happened. Was that car incorrectly delivered to this region? Were all the other dealers misinformed?...?

    The one "negative" is that the car I got has features that I don't particularly need. It came with the "Package #2", which includes "4-way power front seats, remote illuminated entry, multi-function keyless entry system with lock, unlock, trunk release, panic features, P205/65HR15 all season tires and 15" x 6" alloy wheels." I'm ignorant about these things, but I'm trying to figure out what benefit I get from the tires and alloy wheels, compared to the standard tires and wheels on the Avalon. I asked the salesman who I dealt with in buying the car, and he really didn't give any meaningful information. Is this just aesthetic, or will I get better performance from these tires and wheels?

    Thanks, again, for the earlier help I got here!
  • fatguycarfatguycar Member Posts: 38
    Fred3,

    The advantage of allow wheels is that they weigh less. The specific point is that this weight is unsprung, in that when you go over a bump you get less weight for the suspension to deal with.

    In theory this leads to better handling and less noise. However, I've never seen any comparison between steel and alloy wheels in terms of performance, and I think these days it's more aesthetic than anything.

    The tires have a higher speed rating than the standard "R" rating. This probably means a different, more expensive, tire, and thus the likelihood of better grip.
  • fred3fred3 Member Posts: 10
    Thanks for the wheel info, fatguycar.

    My Avalon came with Continental Touring Contact AS tires. From what I seem to be reading in other places on the internet, these don't seem to be the best. "Budget tires at a budget price" was how one reviewer put it. Wet traction seems to be the most common complaint.

    Anyone have thoughts about whether I should consider replacing these tires immediately, and, if so, with what?

    Thanks, again, for all the helpful people out there.
  • mcclearyflmcclearyfl Member Posts: 149
    Fred3, almost every middle-of-the-pack car will have corresponding middle-of-the-pack tires, and the choice of standard or aftermarket tires is inevitably a compromise. My Avalon XLS is fitted with Michelin X all-season tires that are better than the tires on several previous vehicles for wet performance -- greatly reduced reaction to pools of water, and almost no hydroplaning. However, they squeal in tight corners at speed. I value wet handling over dry, so I'm perfectly content. You may seek that extra dry grip. It's all a matter of taste.
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    Perhaps something like this happened:

    1) Your dealership swapped a car with another dealership and ended up with one that was configured out of region... Did it come with high miles for a new car like 200?

    2) Someone ordered the same config you wanted, then passed on the deal and the dealership got stuck with it

    In either case, you win.

    FYI Toyota knows how to do the 'custom order thing' in Japan. They build cars to order there. You go to a dealership and 'buy' your car. They build it and usually deliver it within 4 days.

    They will do it here when the time is right and the market needs it.
  • kicker9kicker9 Member Posts: 57
    My 03 XLS also came with the Michelin MXV4's, an awesome tire especially on wet roads with no hydroplaning, but, not so good in the snow if you have that need. I went with Hakkapeliitta WR's in the front for this past winter, an all weather tire as opposed to all season, didn't have any of the mixed tire problems all the tire dealers try to convince you of.
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Kicker9:

    While I am glad that you do not notice any demonstrable difference in winter tires on just the front axle, I highly discourage this to this forum. I am not a tire or wheel dealer. The properties of two different sets of tires on either axle, with dissimilar properties will set it handling inconsistencies, especially in emergent situations. The small expense in, realtively, for buying winter tires for all 4 wheels, is minimal if you have the vehicle for longer than 3 years. I drive in Vermont and in Upstate New York with an 02 Avalon, fitted with 4 winter tires on steel wheels for the long winter season.

    "Feed the forum"

    abfisch
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Fed3:

    Glad you took my advance with asking about the preference order. Your money and you should get what you want, not what "The corportation" whats to shove down your throat, regioally. What a bunch of BS. Anyway, the Package you describe, for the most part, I find rather useful. It is my opinion, not the gospel now but this is how I use it.

    I put in a remote starter with your above package. Obviously I enjoy that feature, but also in the winter time, unlocking and locking the door is faster in sub zero weather, and opeing the trunk with a full cart of groceries is easier too. Not fufu, and useful features so depends on how much they got from you.

    The wheels and tires, ahhhh. That I differ with most people, probably alot in this forum, but...this is a forum none the less. If I had things my way, the way I bought my Avalon, I would have two sets of steel wheels, one for winter and one for the good weather. Steel I said not alloy. Reasons include these. The steel are more durable, especially on rotten roads in the NE. In addition to alloys sometimes bending, they are a PITA to clean especially if the brake dust start to accumulate on the fronts. The new alloys are slotted and not spoked so this argument has less weight with the new 03 and up wheels, even though those are the same exact wheel as the Lexus 300 some years ago, only with the Toyota centercap in the middle. Good ole Toyota. They know how to cross parts the best. The tires are the 65 series, and are the basic tire, not the 60 series that comes on the XLS with the 16" wheel. Why they advertise like this, is I suppose making a big deal about nothing. Except you got the nice alloys. Yes, they are lighter, but the wheels are NOT the limiting facter in the competent but NOT NIMBLE handling of the Avalons. Rather, the small sway bars, rubber bushings, and same struts as the older Camry/Lexus 300 are the weaker link. Just trust me as I have taken apart the suspension to my car several times.

    In any event, the 65 series tires will provide a softer ride, but give up a little transient response in steering amd handling. These are NOT big increments. If you want to change the ride or handling characteristics to a car, email me separately, and I can lead you to some things that make a much bigger difference.

    I glad that my advice was well headed and hope you enjoy your Avalon for many miles to come.

    "Feed the forum"

    abfisch
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    I would love your advice on the setup on my '03 Sentra, I know this is off topic. Please e-mail me at Sandman_6472@yahoo.com so we can talk ofline about this.
    I do actually like the Avalon and might be looking at one in MY 06. (How's that for getting back on topic?)

    The Sandman :-)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    You two could meet up in the Nissan Sentra discussion and "feed" THAT forum!

    Abfisch is right ... posting questions and answers is what benefits all of us, and is indeed the whole point of our discussions. Taking conversations off-line is sometimes the thing to do, but in this case why not have the conversation in the discussion that is dedicated to the Sentra?

    That link will get you there.

    :-)
  • kicker9kicker9 Member Posts: 57
    Just did the first hand wash job of the season now that winter is hopefully over and discovered what were literally hundreds of tiny rust colored specks embedded on the lower portion of my 03 WHITE diamond Avalon. After hours of hard hand rubbing with a good quality polish,I'm glad to report that they all came off, many needing my fingernail to scrape them off, there doesn't seem to be any surface pitting. I first thought acid rain may have been the culprit, but, they were located from behind the front wheels to the rear of the car and from just above the body side molding down and all over the rear end which leads me to believe that whatever the NYS Dept. of Transportation is spreading in the winter is probably the cause. I'm sure they weren't rust spots because the rear bumper covering was affected and if I'm correct, that's either fiberglass or plastic.
    If anyone else has had a similar problem I would be interested to find out if anything what you came up with.
  • petraspetras Member Posts: 6
    Fred3...i highly recommend yokohama avid touring tires, i had a set on my wife's van for over a year and was pleased with the ride comfort and very low noise level on all surfaces except rough concrete, i recently put them on my 98 avalon and enjoy the improved ride and low noise level, i purchased them at tirerack.com for under $50 ea., note: they are only "s" speed rated which is a lower speed rating than original, but it's not a factor for the type of driving i do...
  • gerry100gerry100 Member Posts: 100
    My '03 XL is approaching 25K miles and the ride quality that I loved when I first got it has deteriorated to the point that it feels like an old Buick. It's too bad because the engine is quiet ,the build quality is excellent and I guess the ride quality is excellent if you're driving thru St Petersburg to the early bird dinner special.

    My recent jaunt across the MassPike was six hours of steering wheel vibration,following every rut of depression in the pavement while being soothed by gentle rocking motions.

    I called my dealer from the car to ask about this. When I get too quick of an answer from a dealer service person I suspect that they've heard the question too many times and have a canned defense.Even if it is contradictory gibberish as I got in this case.

    When I asked about the ride and handling quality, he said something like " that can't be - the Avalon has the Lexus firm sport luxury ride suspension that never fails' ( I wonder if he was one of those tall fat short skinny guys).

    Mr TFSS also told me that the original Contis are good for 25-35K , but you should rotate every 5K. ( Of course where I have work done, that many rotations over 30K mile would be more than the cost of a tire, maybe two).

    I know the shock damping has detriorated and I also know that the shocks are probably not leaking and Toyota probably won't replace. I drive every car I have to its limits but don't abuse. Most of my other company cars have held up rather well.

    Toyota created value in this car by putting too big a body on the skinny legs of the Camry, and mine are getting tired.

    I'd recommend not getting this car as an over the road traveller.
  • fatguycarfatguycar Member Posts: 38
    >> the Avalon has the Lexus firm sport luxury ride suspension that never fails

    Really? My Lexus "failed" at around 120,000 miles. Unlike some other makes and models where the attitude is "I really must get someone to take a look at the shocks, because it seems like they might be going," inside about 1,000 miles it went from no symptoms to the feeling of no shocks whatsoever.

    Also the Avalon has a different suspension to the Lexus. It is softer and is less supportive on corners.

    It's not like any of these things are very bad (I've never had shocks last over 100,000 miles, for example) but things are definitely different from the Lexus.
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    I drive the Mass pike too in my wife's 2000 Avalon XLS.

    No problems with the ride or handling at 38k miles. We've replaced a couple of the tires but not the shocks.

    I drove it to Delaware about 5 months ago and the ride was great, handling was great, etc. etc.

    Sorry if others are experiencing otherwise.
  • warakawaraka Member Posts: 10
    During the extremely heavy rains we had in the middle of last week in the Boston area my new XLS, with sunroof sprang a leak.

    The drip came from the roof on the driver's side just where the plastic meets the soft felt roofing material on the front left pillar.

    On the outside it would appear that the water entered in the intersecting channel where the front windshield chrome meets the roof line. It certainly did not come from the sunroof.

    Is Toyota quality slipping or did I get a lemon?
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    Defects can and do occur on almost every car. Defects occur at a lower frequency on Toyota products ( especially Lexus ) than any other manufacturer.

    But one, or even a few, defects doesn't mean Toyota quality is slipping or your car is a lemon.

    We had serveral defects with our 2000 XLS: several rattles, squeay front strut (Toyota replaced both in a blink), one of the wheel well plastic surrounds was warped (and replaced). I looked at the JDP data on the Avalon that year and figured out that only about 20 of them out of 60,000 made had this many defects.

    You must have some kind of defect in the seal at the leading edge of the windshield. Hopefully it's the only one you have.

    I just checked our Avy and noted that there's a narrow, but long strip of metal (?) that runs the length of the roof on both sides. It stops just before the windshield trim. Perhaps the water found a way in through this area.

    I'd ask that Toyota locate it (with heavy hose spray of some kind but not at high pressure washer) and repair it --- which might require a new windshield or trim piece and seal. Also, if the headliner is heavily damaged you ought to ask that they replace it too.
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
         My loaded '03 XL has 33k on it now and the overall drive is almost the same as new. The soft ride and the large perforated leather seats are wonderful. Never been to the dealer except for routine service. The original Michelin tires are beginning to wear down, however, and will be replaced with another set soon.
         This car still will not consistently get the 30+ mpg that my '99 XL delivered. It gets 28.5 max on the road on 87 octane. But....you can't have everything. Much better than 95-99 series, all things considered.
         Great cars....enjoy yours.
  • fatguycarfatguycar Member Posts: 38
    This morning I was woken by my wife screaming to me "I need help . . . now!" She was about to leave the house for an early doctor's appointment and discovered that the car doors on both cars were frozen.

    I shot back upstairs and got dressed, but when I came downstairs again she had managed to get my Avalon's door open, so she handed me her Lexus keys and told me she was taking the Avalon for the day.

    So I'm left with only the Lexus. :(
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Gerry100:

    I bought an Avalon 02, new. Besides having a number of defects, one of which was a severely warped rotor, I felt the ride was unacceptable for the frequent interstate driving I do. In agreement with CR, I felt although soft and comfy, the car felt not nimble, dove excessively when braking at high speeds, and the car would sway too much causing excessive pressure to the outside front tire, sometimes squealing even at a moderate speed.

    Believe the other posts, but the fact is this. The '00 Avalon and up, have the same part number for the struts, both front and rear, as the older Camry and Lexus 300. I am not sure about the new model of Camry and Lexus 330. I do not believe, and I could be wrong, that Lexus has a "sports suspension", and even if they did, I would need to know what exactly does that mean. Does it mean bigger sway bars, PU bushing, spring rates, shock/strut rates, Wheels and tires, etc.

    Now...I was dissatisfied, not with the car,. but with the ride versus handling compromise, for my purposes again. Some may disagree and that is fine. That is what this forum is all about. What I did, was change the struts and found a company that gave me the best handling without sacrificing too much ride quality. From the two companies that I dealt with in the past, one had a monotube design and one a twin tube design shock. I choose the later, TokicoHP struts. I also, since they do not make bigger sway bars for Avalon, that I know about, changed the front and rear, bushings that hook up to the frame of the car. That is all I did. Not even changed the wheels or tires except my winter tires are of a better quality that the OEM tires that came with the car.

    The difference is astonishing. It is nimble, tight, albeit a little more vibration seeps into the passenger compartment. The car does not undulate anymore nor bow when the brakes are touched at high speed. Yes, it is a little rough, on poor pavement, especially the old roads here in the NE after a harsh winter. Some bumps are harsh and some are actually better.

    Is this better for everyone. NO. Depends alot on your driving and what you do and want the machine (it is only a machine) to do for you. IF you frequent highway driving or rural driving, then I would say this would be a good thing to do. If you do alot of city driving, probably not.

    I did not even entertain, changing the springs as they usually lower the car, and the Avalon's clearance is already low, compared to other large cars, like the Crown Vic, and Buick Park Ave (See CR for specs.) I did not want to lose any clearance, especially with our winter driving and steep driveways. As it is, with the trailer hitch I attached, I bottom out, on a steep driveway if I go too fast. The best way to get better handling without sacrificing ride quality, is through sway bars and associated PU bushings. However, you always give up something. What I did, worked out well, for me.

    Utimately, you have to eval. your own driving needs. But...don't let anyone tell you that the Lexus suspension is that much different from the Camry, and that from the Avalon. It is not. They are all struts, with two suspension arms each to the rear, with sway bars. The New Camry SE has a bigger engine and might have some different hardware but not the older ones.

    I hope this is helpful.

    "Feed the forum"

    abfisch
  • stmechstmech Member Posts: 19
    I completely agree with the previous posting (#2613) regarding improving ride quality. I also replaced the stock struts with Tokico struts. (I didn't replace the bushings.) This was a little over a year ago. My car is a 2000 Avalon XLS that now has close to 100K miles. This didn't turn the formerly Japanese Buick into a Japanese BMW, but it made a huge difference. Previously, any road undulations would send the rear end up and down like a pogo stick - especially with people in the rear or luggage in the trunk. A pothole or uneven pavement previously would cause a harsh bottoming out of the suspension. No more. The ride is controlled over all kinds of surfaces and no longer bobs up and down.

    Of course this is all highly subjective. I'm sure many (probably most) people like it just the way it comes from the factory. And the Tokico's are more "busy" going over moderately rough roads and some people wouldn't like that one bit. The problem for anyone considering changing is that you won't really know until you've already spent the money. Then it is rather impractical to go back.

    I would also say that the year and 20K miles on these shocks has smoothed off the edges a little and now they are even better than when they were now. By that I mean a little less busy.

    Would I do it over again? In a heartbeat. In fact if I bought a new Avalon, I would probably get the Tokico's shortly after the new car. Why not just get a car with a suspension that I like? Nothing else has the room and overall quality of the Avalon. It is a unique package.
  • gerry100gerry100 Member Posts: 100
    Thanks to the previous two posters for taking time to address a not uncommon disappointment with an otherwise fine car.

    Unfortunately, I know that my lease company won't go for the Tokico's. I'll probably get them to replace the original equipment at about 40-45K,( I'll have the car up to about 80K). Shock performance does deteriorate slowly with use even without what is considered failure ( leaking).

    The dealer did a through check this AM and confirmed that the shocks weren't that the vibration was likely due to the completely shot Continentals ( 24K miles!).

    Anyhow, 4 new Goodyear aquatreds have eliminated the vibration and improved the tracking a little.
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    gerry100:

    As an aside, if you are interested in improving the handling characteristics of the other fine car, price out and compare OEM from Toyota Dealership and the TokicoHP put on by a reputable wheel and axle or frame and alignment shop. You might be able to save the leasing company some money and enjoy the car even more.

    Just a thought. Glad the new tires did the trick. I agree that the OEM tires are not premium either, but the car is still a very good car all in all. Just some of the parts are shared and compromised, surprisingly.

    If anyone out there, has comments about improvements or comments on improving the car, please let the forum know. I have heard that the Bridgestone 950s were a very good replacement tire, H rated and sporty without be ultra or super duper at a reasonable price.

    Feed the forum

    abfisch
  • seekperfectcarseekperfectcar Member Posts: 5
    Hello All, Newbie (to this board) here!

    I am in Canada (Toronto area) and man is buying an Avalon HARD! Dealers either have only one (in the back somewhere) or have me drive a salesman's personal 2000 model claiming "it's the same car". No opportunity to check out colors, no option choices (you can have the XLS, XLS or the XLS) and NO NAV. Takes the fun out.

    So without a NAV option in Canada, they stuck a blue screen over on the passenger side that the driver has to reach for to check DTE, fuel efficiency etc.. Is this in the US as well? I've seen no comments on it here anywhere.

    I actually went to buy a Lexus but at 6'2" tall, I just don't fit (unless I go without the sunroof and that ain't happening). Same issue with Mercedes, Cadillac, Buick, BMW, even Volvo is tight. That' show I ended up with a SAAB in 1999.

    So, final question... is the 2004 Avalon worth $48k CAD? ($36.5K USD)
  • footiefootie Member Posts: 636
    You can buy Avalons in the Boston area from any of the top 3 dealers for $500 (US) over invoice.

    If you skipped the Nav that would be about $30,000 (US) pretax.

    Save $2000 (US) on the Nav and buy a Garmin or Magellan handheld for a few hundre bucks.

    The blue screen is very reachable, but we almost never reach over to use it while in motion.

    If you really want a Lexus, shop around for a privately owned, 2001/2002 LS.
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Post 2617:

    IMO only, I had the same dilemma way back in the day, Nov 01 when shopping for an Avalon 02. No mistake to skip the NAV, as I usually know where I am going, and can read a map. In you are in Canada, I would expect for the 1K saved, you could buy 4 wheels and premium (H rated) winter tires and a stone/bug guard deflector which I see on 50% of the cars around Ottawa. If you still have money left over, then aid XMradio ( a bonus on any car).

    I thought about buying a used Lexus LS 400 but a new Avalon was a better choice for me for the following reasons. Better gas mileage, front drive, a bench seat, zero miles on the odometer, regular gas, and a antenna that did not get stuck in cold and nasty weather. None of these decisions have I regretted to date.

    Feed the forum

    abfisch
  • fred3fred3 Member Posts: 10
    Abfisch,

    You mention regular gas as an advantage of the Avalon. The manual for my '04 Avalon sort-of dances around the gas issue. They say you can use regular gas, but you'll get better performance out of premium gas.

    I filled my tank for the first time this morning, and wasn't sure whether I should feel guilty about feeding it regular. Have you, or others, found any problems with regular, or any significant benefit from premium?

    Thanks!
  • seekperfectcarseekperfectcar Member Posts: 5
    Thanks for the feedback abfisch,

    Unfortunately the dealer here tells me there are no options for the XLS. They'll apply 3M protect on the hood edge, no satellite radio option. I understand that, seems our CRTC forbids Canadians from subscribing to US satellite service like XM or others. Too bad, the Infiniti G35x I'm also considering has the satellite radio standard, but useless.

    So it sounds like you've had your Avalon for about 16 months and are pleased. I've read about front brake wear and warping, front end diving, but the '04 has electronic brake distribution so I'm hoping that evens things out. After this time period, are you pleased with hte curb appeal?

    Can I use your mailing address for satellite? (smile).
  • fndlyfmrflyrfndlyfmrflyr Member Posts: 668
    As long as the engine control computer can prevent engine knock there is no reason to be concerned about using regular. With miles, it is common for deposits to build inside the combustion chamber, raising the fuel octane requirement to maintain peak performance.

    The loss in performance between regular and premium, on a new car can be hard to measure. Even as miles build you will probably need a stop watch to tell the difference. However, as miles build there can be a mpg loss by using regular, but usually it is a small percentage.

    My Avalon gets a steady diet of regular. I have noticed a small drop in freeway mpg 5% over the years, but none around town.
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    Regular 87 octane works fine in Avalons. Upgrade 89 octane works a little better in the mountains or towing a trailer, but is not necessary. Avalon is protected, as are most new cars, by a sensor to prevent pre-ignition problems. My '99 XL used regular for 92k miles and was perfect. My '03 model seems a little quicker with 89 octane, but for 10 cents less a gallon I always buy the regular in a major brand. Try both and see if you find the difference is worth paying the extra dime....you will not hurt the car or void the warranty.
  • danielj6danielj6 Member Posts: 285
    fred3:
    The following came from New York News Day' Master auto technician who also answers questions from readers on a variety of auto issues from
    readers. The question asked came from a 2004 Avalon owner. I hope it helps to clarify the issue for you.

    "This is a common question. The manual says it all - for maximum performance use 91 octane gasoline. There is a reason why it is written in the manual. You have a multivalve performance V-6 engine that is very complex. The higher the octane, the slower and cleaner the gas will burn. Yes, it's true the engine has knock sensors for protection. If it was my car, I would use 91 or 92 octane. To make up the difference of 5 to 10 cents a gallon, I would reduce the number of times I buy coffee in the morning."
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Forum/SeekPerfectCar:

    The two posts above could not have explained it better. I have feed the car only regular since I have got it, and have had no noticeable knocking. I do have to tow a small utility trailer in a few months so I might put in premium for that trip, otherwise, it is IMO, a waste of money,something I don't like to do on a routine basis.

    As far as options on your Canadian XLS, the XM radio I put in, was not at the dealership nor would I let them touch my car to install it. I install the antenna (Little mouse on the roof) and wired it back through the trunk and around the side, and a very competent audio electrician who I trust, wired the FM modulator to the stock radio behind the dash, with an VSM (vehicle specific mount) made exactly for the Avalon to hold the docking device. Sounds complicated, works terrifically. Lexus started offering XM radio in their radios this year I believe in the USA, without having to do this. Nevertheless, I am sure Toyota will follow suit, and it is outstanding, not to have to mess with CD's or cassette tapes, etc. It does cut out under tunnels, along steep mountain passes, between two tractor trailer trucks, etc, otherwise it is crystal clear without commercial interruption. I hope you Canadians will have the ability to have that in the future. IMO, it is much more worthwhile, than a Navigation system that becomes passe/antiquated as the road system changes. It is also cheaper.

    There is a product that people are using (Clear Bra and the like) which is a nice option to protect your car's surface up there, although I see alot more deflectors on Canadian cars. The later also has the advantage of protecting the windshield from stones as it buffets the air. Yes, it also probably decreases gas mileage, and I am not "hot" on the way they look, but replacing a windshield is a royal PITA, and if it is not done correctly, you either are left with wind noise or a water leak.

    The 02 Avalon has EBD with the ABS. It does NOT take care of the front end excessive dive problem. CR tested the 03 XLS, and they reported the same thing. I believe on the Jan 03 edition and there was a BLUE XLS on the cover. IMO, it is a parts problem, encompassing the extra weight of the vehicle with the suspension geometry. Instead of using the same struts and probably springs for the vehicle and sharing it, they (TMC) needs to focus in a little more on their top vehicle in that line (IMO). No car is perfect, none. The aftermarket struts I placed on practically eliminated that problem, but I am sure there are other ways to eliminate it such as spring rates. And it comes at a cost, of ride quality, while not steep, it still is changed. I don't have the resources, time,money, nor am I an automotive engineer to start taking weeks off to fine tune things.

    I am not sure what you mean by HTE curb appeal, but it is not really a vehicle in which people are awestruck by the looks, and that is a benefit in my opinion. It is a working vehicle, and does a lot of things well with excellent reliability, far exceeding its competition. There is no other car in the "Large Car" category,(not talking about entry Luxury cars now), that got an excellent rating except this car.

    So, enjoy the car and contribute to this forum with your problems, concerns, and questions. Many people are helped with a very decent knowledge base coming from its contributors.

    It is worthy to keep nice.

    "Feed the forum"

    abfisch
  • luffnuttluffnutt Member Posts: 13
    Just completed a tour with our 2003 XLS to the eastern Southlands. Roughly a 2730 mile trip over 12 days to Florida etc. Had four adults, with a trunk full of luggage and one 12 pound dog.
    we averaged 26.7 miles per gallon, on regular gasoline, mostly Interstate highway, usually about five miles an hour over the posted limits.
    Maintained tire pressures of 34 front 32 rear.
    Was not overly impressed with gas mileage but I can live with that. Car preformed very good with not even a hint of knocking, hesitation: just silky smooth all the way. Now have 10,000 miles on the odometer Well, there was one problem, made a donation to the Virginia DOT of $119.00 for a wee bit (13 mph) over the posted 65 mph limit.
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    luffnut:

    Considering the weight of what you were hauling and speed, very respectable. Trying to stay away from states that do not allow detection of radar devices and drive w/i posted limits otherwise. The price of that ticket is 1/3 the cost of a Valentine One, highly recommended for those that interstate much.

    abfisch
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
        Luffnutt: Your gas mileage is fine with all that weight. My '03 XL will do 28 mpg max, 27 more common, with only two people and a full trunk on those Florida interstates. Enjoy the ride. And if you must speed, try to tailgate behind a BMW 7 Series....they are so much more *tasteful* than an Avalon when parked in front of a State Trooper with his blue lights on..... :-))
  • retiredretired Member Posts: 11
    Just purchased 04 Avalon XLS with all whistles and bells, including Navigation.

    Handsome car but for the 16" OEM alloy aluminum wheels which in my mind look like big ugly shiny Frisbees with 5 holes punched in around rim. Using OEM Michelin P205/60R16 tires,

    Would any one recommend a suitable brand or make of custom wheels. Am not interested in mounting larger diameter wheels, so will stay with 16"
  • solara00solara00 Member Posts: 81
    May I ask what you paid and in what part of the country? I am looking for a similar fully-loaded Avalon.

    Thanks.
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Retired:

    Good questions, and good car. Congrats. on your new purchase. I happen to like the NEW Avalon's 16 inch wheels better than the old, as they are slotted instead of spoked. Slotted are always easier to clean.

    I have a set of wheels and tires, that I only used for one season, without any defects I would be happy to give up. E-mail me under separate cover if you are interested.

    IMO, the wheels you have are nice and the best fit. The tires are mediocre and the size 206/60 R 16 make the car look to big for the tire. Many people have expressed this before. I put on Maxxim Vision wheels (16 x 7) with 215/55 R 16. These tires appear a little wider and a little lower profile. This is the same tire size as the Mercedes E class station wagons to give you an idea what they look like. There is practically no speedo error which is important to me.

    Bottom Line: Your wheels are fine. Tires are OK. If you get aftermarket wheels, be careful of wheel offset, diameter and width, and ease of cleaning. The more spokes, the more surface area to clean, the more time consuming. For a show car, they are neat, but for a working car, they are painful to clean, especially the fronts where the brake dust coats the outside more readily.

    Hope that helps.

    abfisch
  • retiredretired Member Posts: 11
    Would swapping out my XLS OEM P205/60R16 tire/rim combo for a XL set up,i.e., P205/65R15 tire/rim combo, merit me a smoother ride over city streets/potholes, RR tracks, etc?

    Yes, I know that for some this may be anathema, when plus sizing's now all the rage, and some will no doubt authoritatively point out that I'd be loosing "performance-traction," but I'm an old '60’s era SCCA road (A/ sedan, E/prod) racer who still can drive, and frankly the performance/adhesion difference between 60 series and 65 series, while fun to talk/speculate about, especially amongst racer wannabes, is really minimal. I mean, where in this side of the International Date Line in today’s traffic can one safely play on the street being an Allan McNish (winner of 2004 Sebring 12 hr)!?

    As the overriding criteria I sought a smooth ride and lots of space for my senior citizen friends, which are a couple of reasons I bought the XLS Avalon. Otherwise I would have bought a sportier but less roomy Accura RS something in that important '30K price range.
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Retired:

    What a great car for a retiree. Sweet. I can just give you my side of the story as I contribute to this forum regularly, and glad to see someone is probably older than I. When you talk SCCA, it brings a smile.

    You are correct. The difference is merely in ride quality and transient response. And price. You will notice they both are 205mm in width, so the contact area is the same. I bought an XL and got the 15" wheels, but as my other posts would indicate, have changed the shocks and bushings, as I was dissatified with some of the characteristics of the car, XL or XLS. I don't think in your circumstances mentioned above, I would do anything except enjoy it. When it comes time to have new tires put on, I would get the same size and upgrade to a Performance AS (NOT ultra performance). I believe the Bridgestone 950 and the Falken Z-512(?), CR rated very high and big bang for the money.

    Either way, the type of tire, in this case will make more of a difference than the small difference in series. Besides, when it comes to handling, it is all about suspension geometry, and less so about tires, although many people go crazy with wheels and low profile. They should read an old, but very appropriate book written in "our" generation, simply titled "How to make your car handle better". Straight forward and most of it relatively easy to understand.

    You bought a very good car, that does give you a smooth ride and lots of space, especially for the money. Your wheels are easy to clean and I would leave them alone. You can upgrade the tires with the same size when you finish with the OEMs. If you are driving in city traffic, I would leave it stock, and don't over or under inflate the tires. Just what Toyota says, I think 32psi for the 16" and 31 psi for the 15s. If you do alot of highway driving, then we can talk about a little more performance parts without affecting the quality of the ride too much, which is why most of us bought the darn thing in the first place. Read the past posts to catch up. Contribute your thoughts. Welcome.

    "Feed the forum"

    abfisch
  • retiredretired Member Posts: 11
    Arthur,

    All things considered, I'm going to leave well enough alone, not messing with tires/rims at this time. Will rethink when the Michelins go away which I estimate will be around 25K miles.

    Yup, how right you are; it's all about suspension geometry. In '66 a buuch of us teamed up to campaign a notch back Mustang in SCCA's first A sedan class. Talk about setting up & tying down that rear axle w/panhard rods and endlessly fiddling with front suspension caster and camber, suspension points, reinforcing upper shock mounts, etc, using Goodyear Blue Streaks on 15X7.5 rims. Koni shocks were de riguer then.
  • microrepairmicrorepair Member Posts: 508
    I stopped into a Toyota dealer a few weeks back and the salesman mentioned that there were some significant changes coming for the 2005 Avalon. He wasn't sure what they were going to be. Have any of you heard any rumors on the changes coming?
    More/less interior room? More/less power? Etc...
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Nothing is confirmed yet, but from what I understand the NEXT Avalon, as in the major change to the next design, is probably going to be a 2006 model, to debut in the Spring 2005. Word out of Kentucky has it that the 2006 Avalon will introduce a new, 3.5L V6 engine.

    My point: Eexpected changes for 2005 may upgrade the vehicle (side curtain airbags, 5 speed automatic, etc), but the major change probably wont be until next spring. This is very similar to what Toyota did with the Sienna, which had a very abbreviated 2003 Model Year, and a March 2003 intro of the 2004 Model Year.

    Of course, its anyones [educated] guess, but these are mine (the 3.5L V6 is confirmed, though).

    ~alpha
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Retired:

    When your Avalon gets old, and you get a little tired of its ride/handling characteristics as they will decrease with use/age here are a few things that I have personally done, that have made quite if not dramatic difference in the way the car behaves. Note that I drive to work through a very steep mountain pass and along the NYS thruway almost up to Canada at least once a month.

    1. Change the struts. They are of poor quality. I know they are a Toyota part, and I don't give a sh.... They are a weak link on that car. In fact, if you look at the category with the most complaints as the car ages in CR, you will find that the suspension is where most of the problems arise. There are a couple of aftermarket ones available, but I put on TokicoHP, and coated them with undercoating except for the rod and the stamped metal numbers on them (Co advice).

    2. Energy Suspension makes PU bushing, unfortunately not too much for the Avalon, at least last year. My sway bar is 18mm in diameter in the front and about 16mm in the rear. Luckily, the PU bushing that hold the sway bar to the chassis are approximately the same as in the older model. The front ones fit beautifully, the rears with a little gap but I was able to close it down. Use plenty of grease and if you run out of the stuff they give you, get "Blue Marine grease" from a local parts store. Make sure everything is coated or the bars when they twist will produce a squeak!!. You will notice that the car handles almost like a 5 series BMW (older model). It still gets a little light at speeds over 85, unlike a 5 series but at low speeds you really cannot tell the difference. How do I know. My best friend has a 1995 5 series. The BMW is better at higher speeds. Note, the front brackets and PU bushings are a little tricky to put on in front. There is just not alot of room under there and the freakin steering rack. Take your time if you do it. It is worth it in the end. Do NOT change the rear control arm bushing. They are a different size in the old car and will not fit the new cars.

    3. When you had enough of those poor quality rotors, put a rotor on premium quality that are slotted. Yes you will get a little vibration in the steering wheel but with ceramic or semi-metallic pads, the front stopping power goes from good to excellent, and it is extremely notable, especially when working in synergy with the struts than allow a little rear to front weight transfer but no longer allow the car to dive as if it wear bowing.

    These are simple mods. and will improve the car's response greatly without any aesthetic change. The outside looks exactly the same.

    Good luck.

    "Feed the forum"

    abfisch
  • retiredretired Member Posts: 11
    Without going to a complete aftermarket installation, is there an electronic modification available for the OEM XLS sound system to provide XM or Sirius satellite radio reception?
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Retired:

    As far as I know, if there is not a "SAT" button, on your radio, that it is not statellite ready. That is the easiest, as all your have to do is call the company, charge the service, give them your radio assigned number, and away you go.

    Lexus has started to offer the services on their new vehicles, at least in the LS430 I sat in. The antenna is built in on the roof, as you have probably seen on higher level cars. It looks like a "Mouse" on the back of the roof, centered.

    That said, the aftermarket ones, are not difficult to put in for an experienced automotive electrician, and you have to be very selective. Most tear away plastic and break many clips when they do not care or treat it like their own. Find someone who is meticulous about their work.

    I placed the Delphi unit in my Avalon. It works terrifically. I wired the antenna up, and had a very experienced technician do the rest. It is the kind you take out of the cradle and can plug it in another cradle hooked up to your home stereo. So I can use it at home or in the car. Luckily, they make something called a VSM (vehicle specific mount), exactly made for the Avalon. It is constructed of nicely made finished black powercoated steel that is angled at about 45 degrees. It is put in, right next to the radio on the right side of the face plate, and obviously canted towards the driver. It kinda looks like a cellular phone cradle in cars that are mounted professinally but on the docking station is for the Delphi unit. You just drop it in, hit the power button, then hit the Avalon stereo radio power button. You have three choices to set the FM modulator, locater and connected to the radio from under the dash, as to which frequency you want it to come out of. I think mine is set to FM 81.5 or so. The installer sets the modulator to the three choices. If you select any other one, the radio plays from your own radio/source. The sound is crystal clear with no commercials. The black mouse has a huge magnet below its ventral surface to stick to the roof, even through car washes. There is a small black wire from it that travels down to the rain gutter along the back window, but I was not about to drill a hole in my roof and then seal it up. This works well and looks good for aftermarket. Obviously, the wire on the roof would not show if it was XM or sirius ready, probably in the new Avalon. There are no wire exposed in the dash, everything clean and professional.

    If it spurs your interest, FIRST, find a reputable, meticulous, auto electrician, if you are not one yourself. You have to get a feel for plastic panels and clips,as they are easily busted and the antenna has to be feed through the panels on the side of the car if you want a sweet looking job. I can only recommend, the Delphi unit as I have no experience with any other. Its performance is superb, and extremely flexible since you can take it out of the car to prevent theft and use it in your home if you do not have SAT in your home. The only two minor complaints I think I could have, are #1 as I said the small wire coming from the mouse on top the roof until it disappears into the water channel near the window, and #2 the bushed aluminum of the Delphi unit does not exactly match the black plastic or wood applique in the interior.

    I hope I explained this enough. You can also buy an aftermarket radio SAT ready, but then you still have to have someone install it, it has to be double DIN, and I dislike the small tiny buttons on most aftermarket radios. I like the Avalons big well spaced buttons, especially during the winter time with gloves or mittens. The XLS has more buttons that look the same but still they are bigger, and do not clash with the interior.

    Hope this rather long post helps. Only my opinion and experience, but whatever you do, find someone that does not own a chop shop, and does things well.

    "Feed the forum"

    abfisch
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