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Please give me your opinion on the two cars!
Thank you,
Ralph
In general, the Avalon is going to give you a lot more room with nearly the same level of amenities for less money. It will not have the status of a Lexus, nor the warranty.
Drive them both and see what suits you.
We went back to the same dealer last Sunday and were offered a deal of 24,500 out the door with my trade of a '93 Mazda 626 for a 2001 XL. Since they now add a destination charge they will offer free lifetime tire replacements to make up for it. We are thrilled with our 99 XL and felt the XLS wasn't worth the extra.
Also, the regional distributor, Gulf States Toyota, adds on all kinds of questionable packages to all Avalons whether you want them or not, totaling close to $1K. Does anyone know how to avoid these extras?
Also, does anyone know why a rear spoiler is only available in the Southeast states?
I've only purchased Hondas before, where the purchasing is SO MUCH easier- just choose DX,LX, or EX and your transmission and engine preference and you're done. No option packages, no distributor add-ons. Seems like buying a Toyota is a more frustrating experience already!
Thanks.
My feelings is that Toyota is a pretty much a "domestic" car now in term of quality. I will probably not buying another Avalon again because it is somewhat disappointed.
I loved the breaks and seat comfort in Volvo but the interior size
and quality issues shifted me more towards Avalon. Before making my
decision (and before test driving), I followed discussion boards here and
S70 for ~3 weeks. have read (from) many more dissatisfied people with S70
than Avalon. Furthermore, since both dealerships are close to my house, I visited
them both over the weekend and while Volvo had between 10-13 off the
lease 1997-1998 I 70, I could not find one 2000 Avalon while there were 4 1999
Avalons and below at Toyota.
For 3-4K extra I got brand new 2001XL as opposed to 1998 S70 with 35-40K on it.
Also, lets remember VOLVO=FORD.
One car (in the price range/class) I would choose over Avalon would be something
similar to 1998 3.2TL. I test drove that car as well. I loved the handling/steering/brakes
etc. However, little too small and I simply dislike the 1999 and above outside appearance.
The 1999+ almost looks like accord. The 3.5 is out of my price range + I dislike it as well.
Finally, three days after the purchase, my 2001 Avalon developed slow trans fluid
leak. I took it back to the same dealer (yes, it makes a difference where you
take the car to get fixed and where you buy it) and within an hour some bolt was
tighten and no problems ever since (over a month).
Hope that Hyundai is around 10 years from now to honor your warranty.
And even then, I rather dry my car where I need to go than back and forth
to the dealer.
It was posted on Jan 12, by a chap who says he is a Toyota Technician, and who identifies himself as K.Lee. His thoughts on this subject are really worth seeing.
Let me know what you think.
By the way, I checked out that Tundra Topic you recommended---it's outstanding! Thanks.
I have often built cars for folks who wanted XLS'es with cloth, or even w/o moonroofs... or XLs with the sunroofs. If it's available with Toyota, I'm all ears. Just shipped a special one to Utah, and am constantly building unusual cars for Avalon seekers!
My usual stock cars are like this:
XL = GI or GK cars.
XLS = GU or GV cars, some with moonroof, some not. We don't get a lot of VD cars here (traction/vehicle skid) but we do get some!
-Dianne
dianne@earthlink.net
http://www.carsontoyota.com/master_wecare.html
I have a 97 Avalon XL. MSRP was $28K. I traded a 95 Avalon XL in on this and did very well at the time. The 97 does have more miles and is older now with 73K. Edmunds quotes a used car price of $11,986. I tried to trade for an Acura 3.2 TL. I had decided to move to the Acura since they have more content at a lower cost. But they offered me only 8K. They explained the low trade amount due to introduction of new body style by Toyota. They use the KBB. I know it is tough for you to say but does 8K seem like it is in the ball park on a trade-in for a 97XL? I thought that used vs. new buyer groups were composed of people with different objecives. Used buyers being those that could not or chose not to spend so much for a car. Could you explain this? I see that Camry's are holding their values better. Is this a demographic thing? Does the Avalon appeal to older buyers who have money to buy new and the Avalon is just not very attractive sitting on a used car lot. Particulartly with younger buyers who tend to be in the used car market more often? It appears that the interest in the Avalon on a used car lot may be likened to an old Cadillac or Taurus where used car buyers are concerned. Yet I see very few for sale. Is it safe to say that the Avalon does not appeal to younger and other used car buyers like the Camry. You must see it every day. My dealer says they only get about 1-2 buyers looking for an new Avalon on a given day. Is the lack of interest for an Avalon due to the low profile of the advertising and marketing of Avalons? Depreciation is an important cost of ownership and I bought Toyota since I thought that it would hold up better than a Taurus but now I am having second thoughts on my decision. What are your thoughts and experiences?
Cliffy I would appreciate a reply. Thanks for the help.
Now, lets look at your car. It has 72K miles and therefore is not eligible for most extended warranties. The miles also put it outside of the limits that many banks have for financing. This means that when he sells it, he needs to find a customer with cash or very strong credit or he must use a "secondary" lender which means very high interest rates. None of these will prevent him from selling it, but it limits who he can sell it too.
Like I said, $8000 sounds a little light but not horribly so. Shop it around. If you live near a CarMax dealership, take it to them to see what they will offer to buy it for.
The Warranty and credit issues are also new to me and I see how that could effect the dealers decisions.
Conclusion: I must either sell or keep my 97XL in order to be happy with the result.
1. Seat uncomfortable- I am tall (6' 0"). The leather drivers seat is uncomfortable in the area of the lumbar support, but only on long drives. The passenger seat feels fine. If only I could drive from the right hand side. I doubt this "problem" will ever be fixed, and haven't tried since my wife is the primary driver and she's short and thinks the seat is fine.
2. Drivers seat pops- My dealer has ordered a whole new seat frame to address this problem. Since it hasn't been installed, I can't say yet if this will solve the problem. If your dealer wasn't able to duplicate, don't worry, it'll just get worse, and eventually, they will.
3. Rattling noise from under dash on acceleration (more noticeable when cold)- this noise was coming from the steering column. Dealer lubed a part in the steering column and noise is now gone. You can duplicate this noise by stopping with engine running and slowly turning steering wheel all the way to the left, then all the way to the right, etc. (move it very slowly), you will hear noise that is identical to the noise that you hear when accelerating. Dealer also ordered a new part in the steering column (claiming that lube is not a temporary fix only).
4. Radio volume fluctuates- Dealer has replaced radio and an amplifier, but it still isn't fixed. Dealer claims Toyota is working on TSB that will fix the problem, but no news on when it will come out.
5. Rattle from right hand side of dashboard- I don't know what the fix was, but I know that the dealer did more damage "fixing" this problem than was justified.
6. Wandering- when we took delivery, the vehicle wandered badly. Several alignments later, the car seems fine, but the alignment seems out (again).
7. Driver door hard to close- I noticed that our drivers' door was adjusted oddly after we took delivery. That is, the window seal between the top of the door and the top of the car was pinching when we closed the door. The dealer adjusted the door by lowering it (slightly, so there is very small gap between the top of the door and the car), and now there is a wind noise. My advice: Leave it alone. Doors that are slightly hard to close beat a wind noise any day. Also, the drivers' door body molding (the molding mounted to the body) constantly dries out, causing a creaking noise when it is cold outside and the car goes over bumps. The dealer has ordered a new molding (it is my understanding that a new molding has been engineered for several reasons - see www.yotarepair.com.
(has anyone else noticed any of this?)
8. Dancing lights reflecting from instrument panel onto the inside of the windshield- if you are a tall driver (or you lift the seat up high) you may notice lights that dance across the windshield during nighttime driving or a green glow on the windshield. These appear to be caused by reflections off the instrument panel plastic lense. My dealer says that Toyota is re-engineering the dashboard/instrument panel to address this problem, but the TSB is not out yet. Supposedly, this involves extending the dashboard (top part that covers the instrument panel) and re-doing the angle of the instrument panel lens.
Comments welcome.
The only problem I noticed is the "reflection issue"
on the drivers side window. Remmber reading here while ago that someone had the dealer change the angle of the dashboard etc.
Personally, it does not bother me that much since
I don't drive late at night + if I do, it is most of the times on illumiated streets.
I am going to wait and see if Toyota comes up with TSB etc.
Hey, Cliffy
what do you guys do for people who complain about
"relfecting" dashboard ?
As for the green glow on your windshield, try turning the intensity down. That takes care of it for me. I hope these remedies will work for you as they have for me.
I have driven my 2000 Avalon XLS for over 12,000 miles and I have not encountered any of these so called problems. Maybe these cry babies should return to the dealership for a thorough demonstration before trashing the Avalon.
But, maybe you're right...silence the "cry babies", and let's just keep it a good car.
Living in Nebraska, I don't really have any need for the extra help in going around curves. We don't have many. Actually, I did not feel that it would be worth the money to me as I am a senior citizen and tend to be a somewhat conservative driver.
The salesman had both kinds on the lot, but pointed out that he had never been able to take advantage of the other features as one has to be in over his head to really need. it.
Hope that this helps.
One wet pavement, it is much more useful. It does a great job of preventing "understeer" and will give you more control in a panic situation.
On the VSC, we have it too, even though we live in Southern California area and it almost never rains. I don't really expect it to engage on regular basis. However, like the ABS and the airbags, I expect that it will work when we need it (i.e. when it is raining and we might have lost control of the vehicle). I have noticed that it engages and seems to work fine when I force it . . .
Re: the crybaby comments, we love our Avalon, and just wanted to share the resolution of some common issues. It seems that the only crybaby's here may be the ones who complained about my previous messages.....
Here in the Northeast, icing and snow dustings are a regular part of winter. There is a lot of melt during the day and it refreezes every evening. This makes driving particularly challenging during the morning and evening commutes as ice recoats the roads.
The VSC in the Avalon works wonderfully in these conditions. I can feel the system taking over anytime I round a corner and hit some patch ice. It also works well when one wheel spins on ice and the other three don't. The VSC response is smooth, not at all like when ABS kicks in. I don't find the feedback very obvious. All you see is the VSC light flickering. You feel nothing through the wheel or pedal.
If you live in an area with ice and snow conditions like New England then I recommend the option enthusiastically. The only down side I can see is that you tend to drive a little less carefully that if you experienced slipping and small spinouts. With VSC you don't even realize that it is slippery until the person in front of you fish tails.
Just wanted to let folks know who are considering whether it is wotrth it or not.
1) turning down the dask illumination works. You can watch it "disappear" as you lower the dial.
2) raising or lowering the seat helps too. I changes the angle at which the refelction comes back.
Either or both of these should minimize the problem. This is not unique to Avalon. I drive rental cars on a regular basis and I have noticed that many different makes and models (US and Foreign) have the same problem only worse.
the good: nice quality (lunar mist), quietness & ride (scary--cant judge your speed by engine noise or road feel), basic ad stereo & speakers, lighted ignition key lock area; headroom; running daytime lights; pocket storage areas; extra visor pop out; the high shoulder appearance; room inside for passengers; dash setup I/ warning light section is fine;
the less than good: driver seat positioning to see the gauges for my 6' height and the bus like steering wheel position (have to lean back then move too tight to wheel; needs telescoping steering or better); seeding of the cloth and carpets (stone); key less entry can open trunk I/I adequate notice (button must be pressed 2 cc according to manual, but I was informed by another restaurant customer I/ an Avalon that they had to close my trunk lid as it was popped open and that it had happened to them also (i would rather have trunk pop fully open to load items from full arms easier, like my 00 taurus that also has more grocery bag clips); cup holders in center middle not great for moving shift lever; power seat pack #2 does not incl memory; air filter should be standard (can it be added?); engine under hood light missing--makes it difficult to check oil, etc. in garage or at night away from lights!; slippery steering wheel w/ that little molding hole; odometer lcd screen can not be seen well w/ polarized sunglasses; shift indication on "stick" hard to see, but will adapt to dash indication, which could be a little stronger; need more lighted switches to prevent groping for buttons; wish pocket storage areas were bigger to fit cd's...should have 20 cd storage system built in; 1000 mile breakin less than 55mph; doors can by tough to close probably due to light weight and air tightness?
does anyone know if a 10 cd sony player can be added to this system?
toyota of simi valley fleet manager was given to us by carsmart.com for inv-$100 price and in/out of dealer in less than 2 hours...he even had fine sratch removed immediately.
the ride and quiet of the Avalon makes it worthwhile so far to pay $4k more than our fully loaded taurus (which is a bit more fun to drive and has the 6cd player, touch entry buttons, leather) and the hope for long term reliability.
VSC is all the rage for sport utility vehicles - with their higher center of gravity and tendency to tip. A recent tv-news piece showed the value of VSC on the Mercedes SUV in preventing roll-overs. It will probably become standard technology on SUVs in the future.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I have had numerous cars in my life and never have had a problem like this! If anyone else has had this problem please let me know and if there is anything that can be done about it other than touching it up with touch up paint. The way I look at it, if this continues by the time I have 50000 miles on the car I should have about 100 paint chips.
Any comments will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
By the way, does the 2001 XL/XLS have de-powered front air bags? I can't find this information anywhere.
toy av xl2001, I did not get the leather option so later on I added a leather steering wheel cover-it feels and looks really great and grips well-www.wheelskins.com- I even bought one for my father-in-law's Suzuki. I also posted previously if the air filter can be added-no response.
Lastly, i can store cd's in the center armrest- I have the front bench seats, but I see now that 2001 Toy's have an in-dash 6 cd player, I wonder if it can be swapped out for the single cd player?
The Tech found a rock lodged between the condenser and some part of the frame (?).
Sounded hokey to me but lo and behold there is no more moaning and no more rattle.
Now I am back to enjoying one of the quietest, smoothest cars I have ever owned.
My only real grief is the dash reflection problem. I drive at night on unlighted roads, I've tried reducing the illumination level, but that damn green reflection still hovers out there over the road like some ghostly apparition attempting to flee before me. Grr.
It's just a frustrating problem on an otherwise near perfect (if unremarkable) vehicle. Anyone know if Toyota is addressing this problem? I saw other posts hoping for a "TB"? Does that mean something like a "Toyota Service Bulletin" or similar? Meaning they're fixing it?