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On the acura-tl forum many people were stuck without cars for weeks and I have no faith in how acura is handling this matter. I hear they are exteding the warranty, but who cares if your without a car for a extended period of time.
I need advice.
This car has been great. Only two other repairs that are non-maintenance. EGR and Rear view mirror. The mirror popped due to heat inside car. Burnt my fingers. Hey, its Central Florida.
Based on research these are my views of pros/cons:
Passat wagon GLS/1.8t/5spd: Pros:
Like the room in the back for dog, bike & skis
Standard side curtain airbags
Appearence
Cons:
Reliability?
Underpowered?
Honda Accord EXV6 Pros:
Standard side curtain airbags
Plenty of power on regular gas
Great value
Great reliability
Cons: Trying to like the looks
Acura TL Type S Pros:
Appearance
Power
Reliability
Value
Cons:
No side curtain airbags
Hard to fit in dog, bike, skis.
I'm replacing a 1989 Acura Integra that I've owned since new. It has been reliable, economical & fun transportation but with all of the giant SUVs around, I feel very vulnerable driving a small car w/o airbags.
I live in Colorado where it snows & I do mountain driving above 10,000 feet. So, the differences between low power turbo & high power normally aspirated becomes less.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
I had ALOT of reliability issues with my GTI - dumped it after 15 months - so, wouldn't recommend the VW. I know many people have had good "luck" with theirs but I don't like to take a CHANCE that I'll get a "good" car or "bad" car.
The Civic, Integra, and P5 are all great! All I've had to do is reg. maintenance.
I would recommend looking at (at least driving) the new MAZDA6. The trunk is quite large. The driving experience is VERY 'sporty'. The interior is very nice -- have to see it in person.
I have test driven all 3 cars and they are all great. The 2 things I don't like about the Accord (as much as I try) are the exterior styling and the soft suspension (the coupes is much firmer). The TL-S was really nice but like you said, no head curtains and since you tend to keep your cars for quite a few years you should probably get this.
The 6. The only way I can describe it succinctly is to see inexpensive BMW. The FEEL is great. The sound is great. The center console area is really nice, as are the Optitron guages in the Sport package. Anyway - just giving you another option.
The TL-S won, since it has every feature you need as a std., and has the coolest headlights. The Accord is nice inside but has a strange exterior, I am not convinced that VW has a good dealer network, and the Camry is a little boring, and has no safety features as std (such as ABS).
The TL-S needs a telescoping steering wheel and side curtains, but is very solidly built, I would prefer to be hit in it than an Integra. Also Acura have the highest reliability ratings of the four.
Please keep us advised as the miles roll along on your TL as to your likes, troubles, mpg, etc.
My wife talked me into buying it (never thought Subarus were very attractive) and now we fight over who gets it and who gets stuck with the Accord. Hard to explain how it grows on you (enough to probably buy the next generation in 2005).
My $.02
Ralph
My 2 cents is that the TL-S is much better to drive than the TL, the TL has much less road feel, and wallows more. I am glad my car advisor talked me into trying a TL-S. At the time it seemed that paying $2K for a few more hp, slightly stiffer shocks and holes in the leather was rather steep.
It's the VSA. The regular traction control on the TL is a cheap traction control. The VSA on the TL-S combines a good traction system with a stability system as well.
I bought this car to get 200K miles out of it. It's my first "Honda", and bought the TL because of Honda's "sterling" reputation for longevity; obviously not my experience. Also brake rotors warped at 20K miles, and at 18K, the electronic ignition (terminology?) was faulty as well.
I've always been a Nissan guy, 150K on my Sentra, then 180K on my Altima, neither of which required any major repairs. Decided that I deserved a better car than Nissan could offer so got the TL. Well you know what they say, if it ain't broke..... should have bought the 02 Maxima.
It seems that people here believe that Honda has addressed the tranny problem...well that probably is not the case. All they've done is beef up the failing parts so that they'll last longer, (probably to 100K miles), there has been NO redesign, regardless of what they claim. And before Honda admitted that there was a higher than normal failure rate on these trannies, they treated owners like dirt, swearing on a bible that we drove the trannies into the ground, (but I know I drive like a grandpa).
They've also released a figure that 1.6% are failures, but as trannies are still continuing to fail, that number WILL increase. Ask anyone how long it takes for the dealer to order a tranny, weeks and weeks....there's a huge backlog because failures are still occuring.
It's obvious I've soured on the brand.
Lexus doesn't deserve the premium they charge, so I'm heading to Infiniti in 6 months or so when the G35 price softens a bit (I hope).
Passat GLS 1.8T
SAAB 9-3 Linear
Acura 3.2TL
The Acura seemed like the best deal on paper. Honda background (although I was turned off a bit as the Acura is the only car on the list built in America), most HP, luxury type service, past ownership experience was good (we owned an integra and a 2.3CL in the past), etc...
My wife and I test drove the 3.2TL and I was excited as the lease deals were around $1500 down and $350+/- per month, very good pricing, equal to the Passat and better than the SAAB.
However, the test drive proved fatal to the lease idea. The car seemed reasonable enough inside, decent interior, although a bit dated and the center stack could use a little more polish, but, at 6'-0" and 210 lbs., I felt like I was squeezed into a sardine can. The car was incredible tight, front and rear, and I could not find a comfortable driving position. Either my head hit the headliner, and not just touching, but making me cock my head to the left, or I was so reclined that I was looked to the side through the rear passenger's window. I was shocked and disappointed, as this car, again, seemed like the front runner on paper. Sitting in the back seat was not much better. Cramped as could be. The only saving grace was the 'scoop' on the rear of the front seat.
The Acura dealer tried to use price concessions to make up for the lack of space/comfort, and I explained to him that there is no way I would lease a car for 3 years and feel extremely uncomfortable for the duration, for any price.
Oh well. Hopefully the next edition of the 3.2TL will prove more roomy. The rest of the car seemed fairly nice, although a bit subdued and soft, which is appropriate for a mid-level luxury car.
I would up going with a loaded Passat GLS 1.8T Tip. VW is running very aggresive leases right now, it was better priced than the SAAB, I am a little wary on the new SAAB model as it has no history like the Passat and TL and it has GM bloodlines more than ever. The Passat is very nice, needs a little more power, bigger wheel and a CD changer, but very smooth ride, very nice interior with great details and creates and excellent driving environment with some sportiness and very smooth ride. I also like the fact that the VW is based on it's more expensive Audi cousin, so you are getting more costly engineering at a value price. I probably would have leased one instead of my 1999 SAAB 9-3 but the 2yr/24,000 mile warranty was absurd and they fixed that with a 4yr/50,000 mile warranty. And I have been pleasantly surprised because out of SAAB, VW and Acura past ownership experience, VW service was the worst, but my local dealer which has proven to have excellent service so far, fixing every minor delivery issue quickly and without hassles.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing a new TL in 3 years. Hopefully they will be roomier and I can strongly consider it for my next lease.
Since the Accord now produces more power with its 3.0l running regular fuel, will we see a regular fuel TL in 2004?
Although I still have the TL, the wife and I bought a Sequoia back in October and I will tell you, we were so pleased with Toyota...I almost traded the TL for a Highlander a month later.
Now don't get me wrong, the TL is a great car, but not for me. I drive 35K per year, thus the (3yr) 100K extended tranny warranty is no good to me. If I was the "average" commuter driving 15K per year, a TL purchase is just fine, but I wanted 200K out of this car, which now seems unlikely without the risk of high repair expenses down the line. Other than that, you CANNOT beat the VALUE (and overall quality) built into the TL.
You mentioned wanting to know about "exactly what the problem really was and how it was fixed." So did I, for my peace of mind, this was my wife's car, so my threshold for risk is quite low (there's a safety issue with the tranny). The two dealers I spoke to were still uninformed (as of Dec 2002) and the Acura Customer Service line still only pipes on that "it was redesigned". No specific details are available from official sources....that I could find.
And like you, I like the ES300 a lot, but the premium Lexus charges is too much, no matter how great the dealer experience is; maybe that's because I do much of the service and maintenance myself.
If you are still seriously considering a TL purchase, do your research on other boards; there are at least two more sites you can get details from, and read about owners' actual experiences. Email me if you'd like.
Now everyone else....I'm not angry,... disappointed yes, but not angry...not a hater. I even still have the TL......
Your car's finish may simply be defective. Manufacturing defects do occur on any model of cars. My 2000 TL had defective glass in both of the side mirrors. The mirrors have developed black spots all over that were obviously due to some defect in the finishing of the mirrors' reflective surface that is not exposed to the elements. That's just an example of the extremelly rare weird defects you might see.
I bring it in for inspection to discover that I need a new transmission. Apparently the 2000 model transmissions were of lower quality, metal is slowly shredding in the transmission. Fortunately the transmission is guaranteed up to 60k
Changing the transmission here in Canada is about $4000 CDN tax excluded. Personal income in the province of Quebec is taxed at 55%, so you'd need to generate about $10,000 to cover this repair .... I must have a guardian angel
The technician at Acura mentionned that this has become a real headache for them, transmissions are back ordered, and the problem has put a real dent in their reputation this year. However this car is extremely dependable and the mechanisms detecting troubles are very efficient.. of course make sure you are covered by some kind of warranty past 100k if you can. Do the math
If you did, what was the cost?
Are you happy with the outcome- in terms of the quality of the work and the performance of the system?
Please advise- I am about to shop around for prices this weekend.
My friend has the XM radio in his Chevy Avalanche and it sounds awesome, this is an option Chevy offers.
I am over 40 and want a 6-speed TL-S which I understand is coming out in 2004. Just saw the TSX at the auto show and it will be a good car too. The Accord Coupe 6-speed also would be nice.
Getting back to stiff suspension I had 98 M3 and it wasn't the suspension that bother me rather the lack of trunk space and small back seat even in the sedan 5-speed version.
I have an IS300 5-speed and the suspension is actually too soft.
I don't usually request input for others' causes (I've had no problems with my TL), but the transmission failure stories I've heard have me concerned enough to do something.
Anyway, I bought the Pioneer GEX-FM903XM receiver. http://www.xmradio.com/catalog/product_detail.jsp?id=17214&ty- - - pe=Tuner It cost $189 last summer, and there is a $50 rebate on it currently. It was installed behind the back seat (e.g. no one can see it from trunk or cabin). It has a wired remote that I placed on the junk drawer at the bottom of the central stack. To see an example of the setup, see here http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showthread.php?s=59e6af2633d12db5e4- - - - - 8ef900fa3ad4e1&threadid=42693 . I also bought the Terk SR-1 antenna ($79 last summer, now $59.95), which looks like a fat regular antenna. I bought this because I didn't want my gorgeous black paint ruined by the SR-2 antenna which, while smaller, adheres to the top of your car.
The unit I bought uses FM modulation (22kHz), and I set it to broadcast to 87.9. This allows me to keep my stock radio and head unit. The sound quality is excellent! However, there is also a connection to allow digital-quality (44 kHz) if you choose to upgrade your head unit at the same time. I didn't want to go through that hassle.
The range for XM radio extends well into southern Canada, as I found on one of my frequent trips to Niagara Falls and environs. The idea of listening to the same station across the entire country is intriguing to this frequent traveler. There are other radios that are more easily installed, e.g. the Delphi Ski-fi, (see install here http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showthread.php?s=59e6af2633d12db5e4- 8ef900fa3ad4e1&threadid=51389 ), but those options weren't available to me last summer. Any questions, email me.
I am not inclined to rail against a manufacturer based on comments by others in a message board and do not understand someone who would take an active role to address a perceived problem with which they have no personal knowledge or experience.
My dealer told me to stay away from Circuit City, according to the Dealer, they will do a sloppy job.
They recommended a Car Audio Shop around a block from the Dealership.I am going there Saturday to inquire more about the setup and their prices.
From the pictures you posted it seems like a ton load of work to install.I really don't want to take my car apart like that.I have this anal attitude about any car I own.I want everything to be picture perfect,squeaks and rattles freaks me out.:)
I'm not happy that my first automatic sedan has a cloud over its transmission, but my alternatives are to rely on the Honda warranty and customer service, or sell the car. How will a petition help?
billy,
I wouldn't want to take my own dash apart either, too complicated! I lucked out in my install, but I was insistent on getting that "free" install.
How will the petition help? It'll send a message to Acura that they can't just cover up this problem. Thanks to the internet, more and more people are learning about this transmission problem. Many Acura owners, people who have owned Honda/Acura products for decades, are turning away from Acura. And some potential Acura buyers like me are having serious doubts about Acura. The only other way to get the message across is to stop buying their cars. But they may conclude sales fell for some other reason. This is more direct and clear.