Older Acura TLs

libertycat · July 2003

It has more wood trim (faux but hard to tell), a roomy interior, and a MUCH LOWER price.

libertycat · July 2003

Take a look at Jaguar, Lexus, Cadillac, and Volvo (The X Type, ES300, CTS, and S60). When you look at these in person, they all have great quality and owners consider them to be very reliable. The X Type has the best interior, then the ES300, then CTS, then S60, but they're all pretty and easy to use. The current TL has uncomfortable seats IMO and a less luxurious interior than these competitors. Just go to a dealership and take a glance at these, some may appeal to you.

bodble2 · July 2003

mishima is concerned with reliability though. 3 of the 4 brands you suggested would give him reliability more on a par with his current VW.

mishima8105 · July 2003

IS300 looks cool, unique, has somewhat sharp, angular, exterior lines for the young, hip, "baggy-panted masses". Interior is sporty and tight. Some titanium would add to it, I think. 210hp was okay back in '01 but is weak for its class today. Very reliable. The IS300 is due for a design change for '05. I'd consider buying one, but I'm not so young and hip anymore, and MY baggy pants I wear to conceal my gradual expansion. My 18 year old nephew would worship me if I got him an IS300. Wish I could be 18 again in the IS300 instead of the image of myself in a Ford Pinto!!! Remember that fire trap?

BMW is the standard by which all upscale sedans are measured. Almost bought one in '00. Superb styling and fit and finish. BMW is German, and so is my vw jetta glx (a frustrating experience), as well as Audi. I love my jetta w/ the vr6 engine WHEN IT'S NOT IN THE THE SHOP(!). BMW 3 series has not gotten good reliability ratings from Consumer Reports recently. BMW 5 series rated average reliability. I TRUST Consumer Reports- Repair History section is great.

If you've got the time (for unscheduled service repairs) and the $$$ to throw down, BMW is it. BMW is The Car the Japanese are trying to beat. Will the New TL reign over the BMW?

LibertyCat, of the cars you mentioned only Lexus IS, Volvo S60, and Caddy CTS appeal to me. The later two have had reliability problems. Money's tight in this economy, so only Lexus would get my biz right now.

As for the New '04 TL Concept, it's supposed to come out in October. Acura rep said that it will have 280hp, 18 inch wheels, rear-wheel drive, the latest in technological comfort and safety features, and the best audio system available--all at a competitive price for its class. Now that has me salivating.

I never gave an Acura a thorough second look because they all look bland to me, but the New '04 TL is something I've got to wait for. I wouldn't put a dollar down on a BMW, Audi, and Mercedes until I check out the New TL.

mishima8105 · July 2003

bodble2, yes, reliability is very important to me. Service is important, too. Now you combine reliability, service, and performance and you have the perfect car--one that you can drive in zen bliss like many of the ads and commercials we see.

Contrast that image with that of on-going, never-ending drives to and ordeals at your dealer's service department, IF your car is consumed with an unreasonable number of "glitches".

I've experienced both images. I prefer the former as the latter has left an idelible thought of uncertainty about my car as I drive off from the dealer again and again.

carguy58 · July 2003

I would never buy an X-Type its not my style at all. The S60 is too boxy for my tastes too. The ES300 looks weird. I don't think the CTS has a superior interior to the Current TL. I have seen the current CTs interior in pictures and I don't like the way the interior was put together. The S60, ES300, and CTS are all good cars though. I have a CL and I'm happy with it.

bodble2 · July 2003

The Acura rep said the new TL will have RWD? That would be a shocker. How reliable is his info? I would have thought we would see AWD before RWD on the TL.

dulnev · July 2003

I just saw the spy photos linked from message #93 and my opinion is that the rear end of the 2004 TL is butt-ugly! It reminds me of the horrible new Maxima. I understand that tastes differ and some of you like how this car looks (or have foced yourselves to like it), but I for one am very happy I didn't wait for 2004 model.

tls02 · July 2003

I also went to message #93 and linked to the spy shots. Mixed feelings. You cannot really see the front and side of the car. The Rear shot is interesting. I liked the rear of the Concept Car, but this picture seemed different. The Tail Lights look smaller than the Concept Car. I guess that I'll just wait for the introduction... . As far as RWD, I don't believe it. My Acura Rep has told me that the word that is just starting to filter down to them is that the 04 TL will be an AWD car. He also said that the car will come in 7 versions (?). He didn't know how, but he was guessing: 1. Auto w. Nav. 2. Auto w/o Nav 3. Manual w/ Nav. 4. Manual w/o Nav. He thought that maybe there will be a Coupe version. (No more CL...) You know, after looking at the Spy Photos again, the Rear of the car is looking better and better!

bodble2 · July 2003

Now things are getting interesting.

But coupe version? Isn't the current CL more or less just a coupe version of the TL already? So if they kill the CL due to lack of interest, seems illogical that they would then turn around and do a TL coupe.

tls02 · July 2003

I agree with you. I don't see a coupe. I see FWD w/AWD as a option. That could give you 7 different model options.

2003tls · July 2003

The 2004 TL is NOT RWD! Where do these sales people get their information?

sortiz1352 · July 2003

Look closely at the photos, fellas (and ladies). There is black tape all over that car - rear lights, mirrrors, side panel - front to back and of course the front end cover. The car you see is not the car you will see. I'm going to wait to reserve judgement when I see the car untaped. Been waiting 8 months - what's another 3 months

ruski · July 2003

do you people realize that there is tape all over those tail lights and that's why they look smaller than the concept's tail lights? or are you people blind? or [fill_in_for_yourself]?

carrelman2 · July 2003

To see the 2004 TL go to : www.autoweek.com. Click on 2004 TL. Let's hear your opinion. Mine was mixed.

carrelman2 · July 2003

Go Autoweek. Then to photo gallery, scroll down to 2004 TL concept.

tls02 · July 2003

Thanks for the autoweek tip. As I stare at these photos, I like it! it looks rounder and sportier than my 02 TL-S. They might have a winner here. cost would be a factor, but I think that it looks very sharp.

varmint · July 2003

I like what I'm seeing in the pics, but I think it's one of those designs you have to see in person to truly appreciate.

On the subject of AWD, I have mixed feelings. Honda doesn't have a permanent AWD design. Both RT4WD and VTM-4 are reactive systems. While both are good for all-weather capability, their benefits from a performance perspective are limited.

dulnev · July 2003

I really can't believe that you like that terrible rear end. The "lip" on the trunk??? The Taurus/Lincoln LS style white lights by the sides of the license plate and some strange additional white lights further on each side???

The rear end is NOT tape masked. This is it; this is what you'll see in the production model. The only redeeming quality of the rear vies are the dual rectangular exhausts. Those are good looking; the rest looks like a bad cross between Taurus and new Maxima.

ashokmathur · July 2003

It will be as small as an Accord, I thought the current TL is bigger than the Accord, am I correct on that. Also if anyone can confirm that the transmission problem has been takeen care. Thanks.

ruski · July 2003

ahhh, the transmission problem... there are only rumors. No one knows for sure because Honda never admitted that there was anything wrong with it.

ruski · July 2003

http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34- 7

josephacura · July 2003

Hello, I posted a few messages about the 2004 Acura TL due out this fall and it looks sweet......there are pics online as well as in the monthly acura magazine. It does look nice, different. I have a 1996 Acura 2.5 TL with 117,000 and I love it. I just purchased a new, 2003 Acura 3.2 TL Type S and all I can say is it is by far the best looking, fastest, most luxuruious, safest $32,000 car on the market. I have the diamond, white pearl with the tan leather and real wood look. I wanted the silver, however, that only comes with black leather and silver/black simulated wood which looks ugly. The car is great.......and the pick up is unreal. At 80 the RPMs are exactly at 2,000, meaning the car isn't even struggling at all........it will beat any 5.0 older mustang and likely the new mustangs with 260 hp, however, the acuras at 100,000 miles will run like new where the american cars will continue to fall apart. Take a look inside the new grand prix for example, the leather and controls are so darn cheesie........the acura TL is completely perfrect......I'd say to all you people looking at the 2004 when it comes out, to buy the 2003 TL Type S, you can probably get a good deal on it as there will be NO incentives on the 2004 and it will likely take months to get, as was the case when the new TL version came out in 1999.

tls02 · July 2003

I went to the web site that you indicated in your "Taped" post. I could not find where it shows that the rear lights are taped in the spy shots. Are you saying that the tail lights ARE taped and they will be bigger than shown in the spy photos? Let me know. I am starting to really like what I'm seeing, except for the tail lights. I hope that they are bigger, as in the Concept Car. Thanks!

ruski · July 2003

whip out a magnifying glass and take another look

josephacura
too bad the Acura's tranny falls apart probably before the Mustang's

bernwa · July 2003

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=06119210

varmint · July 2003

I've been reading more and more about the HPT version of the TL that has been rumored. There's no guarantee that it will be available in the first years of production, however, there is more noise about it including an AWD system.

dulnev · July 2003

You still have that god-awful "lip" on the trunk! That's as ugly as it gets and it really upsets me that Acura would do something that stupid.

s852 · July 2003

Is no big deal. There are other cars to buy that lack that feature if a trunk lip is a deal breaker to you.

varmint · July 2003

The unit shown in the autoweek spy shots are definately taped. You can see that the edge of the lights is perfectly smooth. As good as Honda is with fitting body panels, that sort of precision is not feasible.

carguy58 · July 2003

I wouldn't panic yet about the 04 TL spy shots. I'll wait till the real photo's come out. In my opinion Honda panicked with the new Accord when they saw the 02 Altima come out and decided to be different with 03 Accord styling because of the Altima. I hope the same thing doesn't happen with the 04 TL. Honda may panic because of the G35 styling. I hope not though.

josephacura · July 2003

Um, not to be sarcastic but the TL tranny is fine. They only had a problem in a few of the TL series transmissions..........see, the difference is that when acura has a problem with a car, it's a big deal because honda/acura problems very infrequent........the TL will last years more than the mustang. Heck, look at the number of say 1992 mustangs on the road now and the condition they're in.......then look at all the say 1992 acura legends on the road........night and day!

josephacura · July 2003

You know when someone digs deep enough to find a problem in the look of the trunk lip, that they simply couldn't find a darn thing wrong with the car. The Acura TL is by far the best mid-market luxury sedan out there......it wins on price, quality, performance, luxury, safety, and style......give me a break!

tls02 · July 2003

Joseph, I'm not the guy who is complaining about the trannys. I LOVE my 2002 TL S! I went to buy a TL in March 01, left a deposit on a TL, went back the next day, test drove an S and switched my deposit for the S. (I had to wait a month for my color scheme, Black/Black.) This car is the best car that I have ever had, (and I have been buying cars since the late 60's). Having said all that, I cannot wait for the 04 TL. If it is anywhere as good as I believe it will be, I'm going to Trade my 02 for a 04. (My wife has already agreed. Once you get to my age, take your pleasures as you can!) I think that I have seen your Posts at ACURA-TSX.COM. If not, go to that Forum. Lots of good info there. Thanks!

ruski · July 2003

I see a lot of junky looking Legends on the road.

And the TL tranny problem IS a big deal because it is mode widespread than you allow yourself to believe, and Honda does not have any other fix but to replace the broken tranny with a new [refurbished] one.

s852 · July 2003

Price is yet to be announced, so it remains to be seen if the price is going to be that great.
There aren't even any firm facts on what the standard features and performance will be.
Some have said it will move upmarket so the base TL price will not be close to a TSX with navi.
Hopefully the interior will be greatly improved with real wood and no shared interior trim and switchgear with the Accord the way the current TL has with the old Accord. Also, it's time to replace the super-weak Bose stereo system with something that actually has impressive sound quality.

msgreen · July 2003

various sources suggest that the 04 TL will have 280 hp or more. I have driven other FWD cars with notable HP and have noticed substantial "torque steer" under hard acceleration. Acura is not immune from physics. Assuming that the TL will once again be FWD, has anyone heard what they plan to do to mitigate the effects of more HP re "torque steer"? Could be very noticeable if they also add a manual transmission.....

josephacura · July 2003

TLS.....I agree with you on the Type S.....as I've said, I have an '03 with only 450 miles on it and I smile each time I get in it......it is by far the best car I've ever had......and to think, in 10 years, I'll look back and say, it was a great car, but look what's out now......that's what I said about my '96 TL. If you're wife is on your side with the '04.....you must get it...but I'm sure you know as I do, new cars are money pits.........I should have just driven my '96 TL into the ground, but the new TL Type S's are just too nice!!

josephacura · July 2003

I have also read about the 280 hp going into the next TL.....but who knows. We likely know more than the dealerships as Honda never says anything till the cars are on the way. But, I would imagine the car will have more than 280 hp and the interior will be very futuristic.......by the way, the interior in the 2003 TL Type S is nothing short of perfection. I think the new body style in the '04 will take some getting used to. It would be nice to see it have TRUE dual exhaust rather than the h pipe you see in almost all the foreign V6's these days. Joe

s852 · July 2003

The 2003 TL interior is well short of perfection. Have you never seen a Passat GLX or a new Lexus ES300's interior?
The current TL's interior is only mildly upgraded from the old Accord and has some obvious pieces that are exactly the same as a 2002 Accord's.
The fake wood and fake carbon fiber interior trim are laughably unrealistic and cheap-looking.

ruski · July 2003

I liked it until I sat in my co-worker's 2002 Accord Coupe. It is almost the same!!!

ruski · July 2003

well 280HP is a big number but knowing Honda, their engine will probably have relatively low torque. So torque steer should not be a problem.

But who knows - look at the Nissan Altima and Maxima, I am hearing complaints about ridiculous torque steer in those cars.

On the same hand it is not impossible to make torque steer negligible despite high HP and torque numbers. Example - Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. '98-2003 models have 240HP and 280 torque. 2004 has 260HP and 280 torque. And almost no torque steer! I just had a 2004 GTP for an extended test drive and could not provoke any torque steer, and I really tried.

scholl · July 2003

My guess is that the 2004 TL will have less than 280 hp - I don't think it needs to win the HP war to compete.

I agree that the interior needs improvement - I'd rather pay more for the car with real wood trim than that idiotic fake stuff that's in the current model- sorry folks! I've owned two accords - but if I don't feel like I'm driving a luxury car - then what's the point. I'd also like to see the headroom increased - Acura surely must have listened to the numerous complaints about that issue

While most of these forum comments are subjective impressions - and that's cool, that's what it's all about - I think some posters have become such "fans" of a car that they spin everything to the positive and live in denial about certain issues.

carguy58 · July 2003

I have heard about that but I don't think that will happen with Honda. Nissan has always focused on big horsepower numbers while Honda usually focuses on giving you the "whole package" in a car.

varmint · July 2003

Which of Honda's V6 engines is missing torque? Their small 4 cylinder engines may lack grunt, but the V6 designs have all been fine.

For the most part, torque steer depends on the layout of the engine and use of unequal half-shafts. The actual power is a secondary factor, and power delivery (when and how the torque hit in the rev band) is also important.

I think the interior of the 2003 TL is nice, but nothing special. For comparison, I recently test drive a 30K Buick RDV. The center stack in that thing used a design very similar to my '86 Cavalier! I do prefer the look of the TSX.

Fake wood isn't a problem for me as long as it looks good. Some does and some doesn't. Real wood ends up looking fake by the time they bury it in a plastic coating to protect it from the elements.

carguy58 · July 2003

Was the 95-98 TL interior that much better than the 99-03 TL interior? I remember in 1998 the 98 TL was priced at 33K and the 99 TL was priced at 29K when it came out. Could have been some cost cutting in there to lower the buying price of the 99 TL. My thinking was Acura was slipping while Lexus was streaking back in 1998. They had to do something and lower the TL's price to sway buyers away from the Lexus ES 300. Lets see a base 99 Es 300 went for 33K while a 99 TL went for 29K. Nice strartegy by Honda. I would no way buy a Lexus because I don't care for their styling mostly with a few exceptions but Lexus was just on a hot streak in 1998.

carguy58 · July 2003

In July 0f 2001 I looked at an 01 Accord Coupe and a 01 CL(Base model.) I bought the CL because I thought the interior was a little bit better and the exterior styling of the CL appealed more to me. It seemed like the interior was layed out a little bit better in the Acura than in the Honda.

josephacura · July 2003

well, as I've said, I have a 96 TL and a 2003 TL Type S and I don't see the similarities in the interiors......remember the cars are basically the same size, and if you check the specs, the older TLs 96-98 have more room inside, however, when inside my '03.....it seems much more roomier. I agree, headroom in both models is an issue. Someone mentioned comparing the interior of the TL to that of the new Lexus ES 300.......I've seen the lexus on TV, yep, it looks nice, but have you seen how they completely ruined the design of that car?! Acura, hands down the winner there, and much less $....more power, and it does look different than it's sister, the Accord......the ES 300 does not look any different than it's sister the Camry, oh wait, yep, the lights are different..haha!

josephacura · July 2003

On another note.....one of the main reasons the TL became cheaper in 99 was because the assembly took place in the US. The 96-98 models were assembled in Japan. Also, the no options, other than the nav, help reduce production costs. RE: wood trim, yep, I'd rather have it real wood, I went for the diamond white pearl TL Type S as it came in beige leather and the much better wood color than the black leather TLs offer. One of the reasons, I believe, the TL is not real wood is because they only put that in the flagship the RL to help differentiate the car. The RL for 2005 will likely be the nicest luxury car on the road for around $50,000........much nicer than the Lexus LS 400 or 430, whatever that over-priced toyota is!

carguy58 · July 2003

The RL is going to have battle the 05 BMW 5 Series, 05 Cadillac Seville STS, Lexus LS430 and whatever Mercedes offers in that price range. Its going to be exciting though because Cadillac, Acura, and BMW will put their $50,000 offerings at basically the same time! Even though I like Acura alot I think BMW has everybody covered in this class.

Older Acura TLs

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