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Older Acura TLs

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Comments

  • msgreenmsgreen Member Posts: 67
    not sure that you are on the right board, but as someone who has anguished a bit over the the RL, my sense is that they have a HUGE mountain to climb when the "new" RL finally hits the streets (whenever that is). I think Honda has blown it big time with so little info on this car. The existing RL, while a nice car, is NOT selling vs. the competition. If Honda wants to compete with a V6 only, then the rest of the car: interior, styling, features, etc, had better be bullet-proof. It has been incomprehensible to me that Honda did not put the VTEC V6 and a five speed auto transmission in this car two years ago. GAWD! if they were going to let it go this long without serious make over, why didn't they at least take existing Honda offerings off the shelf to improve what they were trying to sell??? I wanted to buy an RL several years ago and kept waiting for the "02" which was supposed to be such a big change. Obviously did not happen, so I gave up and bought a BMW. Great car, but I remain pissed at Honda for not giving me a chance to make some other decision. They have strung out their RL potential buyers far beyond reason....
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I suspect the RL replacement was one of the few cars Honda actually had to muddle over as far as it's market position and specification. I'm sure they probably pondered whether doing another RL at all considering the current car's performance on the market compared to the E-Class, 5-Series, GS and A6. Honda's corporate culture won't let them justify the money, or lavish engineering needed to compete with cars like the E-Class or LS430. They're having to shake this small, 4-cylinder mentality to compete in other areas, so hopefully they'll see that there is some money to be made at the 40-60K level. Discouraging is that they've basically said that a V8 and RWD is out of the question. The current RL was a rare misstep for a usually right-on-the-money Honda. They were oh so wrong in even trying to say a V6 fwd car could compete with a a bunch of rwd V8 cars. I have never seen a company in which on of their cheaper cars (TL-S) shows up their flagship car so bad. This next TL and maybe RL are the last chance for Acura to get me interested in their cars again. Talk about one disappointment after another, thats all Acura has been, to me. It all started when the "Legend" left. Will all the time that has passed by since the current RL (1996) was introduced I expect something spectacular for 2005, dare I say a "segment buster".

    M
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    The Legend was one of the best looking cars of the 90's no doubt but that was like 1995 when it left. Its time to move on from that time. I think Acura just got caught by Lexus when the Legend left. Acura is doing good now but Acura better hope the 04TL does not dissapoint since its moving into the 30K+ price range. Honda did dissapoint me with the new Accord. They had a chance to blow everybody away with the new Accord. The styling is so vanilla I don't know what happened there.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    My thoughts on the RL. And I think Merc1 is probably correct in saying that Honda may have considered scrapping the RL. Honda has had more profitable projects to work on in recent years.

    Based on the reception of the 2004 TL concept and the similarities we are seeing with the spy photos, I expect the new TL will enjoy success similar to the '99-03 model. I don't know that it will bust the segment wide-open, however it should keep its place as a respected offering. The shift upwards in price may not make people happy, but that move is necessary to separate Acura products from Hondas.

    On the Accord, I think they nailed it. The styling up front combines current trends (swept back head lights and the rakish character line along the profile) with new designs like the convex/concave treatment over the fenders, the crease-less hood, and tiny grill. I think most folks are distracted by the problems in the back and fail to notice just how unique the front and profile look. On the functional end, the new model is cleaner, more powerful, more comfortable, more fuel efficient, and it offers more options. There are things to quibble about. I won't argue there. I just think the vehicle as a whole is just as strong as the out-going models.
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Your right the back end does bother me. The side looks fine. I think the Accord Sedan the average age buyer is going up to much. The last time I looked the average age buyer for the Accord Sedan was 55. That has too be lowered down a little bit. Honda nailed the Accord styling to a tee in 1996 and in 1998. The 01 refresh was a step backwards and you know how I feel about the new one. 96-97 was the best looking Accord in my opinion most definately. The thing that dissapoints me the most is Honda released the TSX under the Acura emblem and it looks better than the Accord Sedan. Honda wants to charge 5-7K more than a 20,000 dollar Accord LX 4 cylinder auto model. That's just an awkward decision to do that.
  • 2003tls2003tls Member Posts: 100
    The styling of the Accord Sedan is why I bought a TL. The rear end looks like a Saturn and the front is just odd. The 2004 Accord is such a better car in terms of everything else. Why did they screw up the styling? Luckily, it looks like the 2004 TL is following the styling cues of the TSX. If it looked like a bigger Accord - yikes!
  • automophileautomophile Member Posts: 780
    for the new TL. My wife just brought home a new TSX, and if the new TL is the same but a little bigger, I am completely sold. The TSX is the best car she saw in 6 months of looking that could offer performance, luxury and reliability in a compact size. She was lusting after the BMW 325, but it is no longer interesting after driving the TSX with it's $10,000 cheaper price tag. She had 2 Integras in the past, the first, an '87, went 130K miles without a single repair. The new ones should hopefully be the same or better.

    The TL spy pictures are interesting - but the cars are obviously a bit disguised. In addition, these could be "older" prototype bodies that they are using for mechanical testing. It will be interesting to see what the final car really looks like My current lease is up in December - just in time for a new TL! I'll keep checking here for more information from you well informed people!
  • ash213ash213 Member Posts: 40
    I think 2004 TL is going to be a bit smaller than the current model, as it is going to be based on new Accord. I am trying to decide between 2003 v/s 2004 TL. Pricing of 2003 is hard to resist. Any thoughts.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    We're inside of 3 months of intro date of the '04. I would definitely wait.

    BTW, someone posted earlier that he was told there would be 7 versions of the new TL. I wonder if we'd be so lucky that there would be an AWD wagon?!
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    The current TL is also based on an Accord and the new Accord is not smaller.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    As I understand it, Honda actually had three versions of the Accord platform. There was the smaller JDM Accord (now the TSX), and the US spec Accord, then there was the large Accord platform (current TL). The rumors suggest that the 2004 TL will be based on the middle one. The larger one (if it still exists) may be reserved for the RL.
  • neo19neo19 Member Posts: 1
    I was excited that Honda was bringing back the Integra Sedan and I think it's the best looking Acura out currently. I'm glad that the TL will look a lot like the TSX. Honda Tuning (July 2003) had an article on the concept model and according to the specs, it sounds like it will be awesome! 19" wheels, compact side-view cameras, LED taillights, XM Satellite Radio, Dolby 5.1 Surround Sound DVD Audio and Bluetooth wireless.

    In the concept model, there are no windshield wipers, but it uses a series of jet nozzles located in the cowl area to shoot high-pressure air onto the windshield.

    Honda's Japan website for their cars have a few models of the Accord (The TL is one of them, but Acura doesn't exist in Japan) and they look like the new TL, but options include a diesel engine, wagon and (I believe) an AWD model. It seems like the US is the last ones to get the technology upgrade compared to Japan and Europe.

    Acura has also stopped the production of the CL. I would like to see a V8 VTec RWD TL. That would be sweet.
  • ash213ash213 Member Posts: 40
    Current TL is bigger than current or any past Accord (see specs on both cars), and what I meant was that new 2004 TL looks as big as the current Accord, that means it will be smaller than the current TL, right.
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    It is hard to tell just from spy photos. There are no specs on the size of the 2004 TL.
    The current TL isn't very space efficient. It has a bigger, heavier, longer body put on top of a more cramped interior than an Accord.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    S852 - I agree. While headroom is probably the only area that is lacking, space utilization is not what it could be. I'm hoping for exterior and interior dimensions closer to the current Accord.

    And I wouldn't have a problem if the exterior were even smaller than the Accord.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I would love to see a wagon version -- about the size and capacity of the Volvo V70, with AWD, and a 260+HP V6. Possibility or wishful thinking?
  • 2003tls2003tls Member Posts: 100
    I doubt there will be a station wagon TL. First of all, Honda already makes an Accord wagon that they don't sell in the U.S., so why sell a TL version? Also, big wagons (which a TL based one would be) don't sell as well as small wagons. Acura coming out with a TSX wagon or Honda introducing an Accord station wagon in the U.S. makes much more sense.

    By the way, I am 6' 1" and have no problem with headroom in my TL. And I would hardly consider the TL interior "cramped."
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I was thinking more in the line of a luxury crossover wagon (ala Pacifica, Allroad, XC) which seems to be all the rage these days.

    An Accord wagon would be more your run-of-the-mill soccer mom daily hauler.
  • tsxfan19tsxfan19 Member Posts: 28
    I visited my local Acura dealership, and talked to some of the salesmen...I was told that AWD is confirmed, as well as the DVD audio, and bluetooth wireless connectivity.

    BTW, I found out that the RL had the electroluminescent style gauges (new Accord and TSX)...does the 04 RL also have the power window control via the remote?
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    How would you rate the salesmen's degree of credibility?

    There's an article over at the TOV site that says the new RL will have AWD and 300+hp V6. Would Honda market 2 sedans with similar powertrains and specs?
  • ash213ash213 Member Posts: 40
    When you say all wheel drive, it means as an option or standard like MDX.
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    AWD is possible. It is also possible the salesman was lying or spreading a rumor that really is not confirmed.
    Usually they keep details like that away from the dealerships just so that they don't blab information before it is supposed to be released.
    How do you tell when a car salesman is lying?
  • tsxfan19tsxfan19 Member Posts: 28
    that does make sense, because the first saleman that I talked to thought that the car would actually have the high pressure jets as opposed to windshield wipers, as well as the rear-view cameras. :-/

    I didn't really believe the awd idea; although, if the car is going to have more power than the current tl-s, then it should be awd, considering it probably wont be rwd.
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    I suppose AWD could happen if it is near 300HP. There are ways to control torque steer though.
    It might have CEDSSMACS. Computerized Electronic Steering Directional Stabilization Management and Control System.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    If his lips are moving and sound is coming out!

    But seriously, it could be he's not lying but he may be unknowingly giving out info leaked on the new RL.
  • bklynguybklynguy Member Posts: 275
    Does anyone know the price range for the 04 TL ( bet. 30 & 35K ? )
  • 2003tls2003tls Member Posts: 100
    Most are predicting right around $35K.
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    $35K is the price of a well-equipped 325i or ES300. They need to price under BMW and Lexus or people would rather have those brands for about the same price even if the Acura has quite a bit more horsepower.
    I don't see an Acura TL starting at that price.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I'd say about 31 without Nav and 33 with it. The Type S coming probably in 2005 will be the 35K version.

    M
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    then it will likely be priced around $35K (and around $46K - 48K CAD).
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I'll put my money on $31,695 for the base model. ;-)
  • mishima8105mishima8105 Member Posts: 43
    My interest in Acura is new. I'm curious to know where Acuras are built. Where will the new '04 TL be built? Anyone know?

    If it's assembled in Mexico, then forget it! If it's built in the U.S., well, I'll have to make sure none of my friends are working there. LOL. You know how we are, people: we often slap something together without reading or understanding the instructions and then say, "Yeah, that looks about right."

    ...And that's after a night of partying and little to no sleep. LOL.
  • swsmsswsms Member Posts: 62
    Based on the new features and enhancements to the '04 TL, we are probably looking at a range of 32.5K for the Auto/non-nav to 37K for the 6pd nav and HPT. In addition, the 330 (not the 325) would be a better match vs. the TL...184hp vs. 270hp is a little bit of a stretch.

    I don't think there will be an issue with price. A premium packaged ES300 lists at 34.4K and we know it's not hard to spend 40K on a 330i.

    Over the last few years, we've seen that Acura knows how to price their cars. As a result, the '04 TL will probably be selling at MSRP for a while. But you are right S852....Acura will not increase price by 6K on the base model from '03 to '04. That would be suicide...

    Just my 2 cents.
  • swsmsswsms Member Posts: 62
    According to other boards, the '04 TL will still be built in Marysville, OH with the Honda Accord.
  • richtheslickrichtheslick Member Posts: 7
    Currently I drive a 2002 RSX type S.
    Amazing car for the cost.
    A little rough on the road, and looking to upgrade. I'm seriously considering the 2004 TL, but I hear that the type S will not be offered until 2005. Why would anyone buy the standard model if in a year for 1-2k more they could get 40 more horses or so?
    Does anyone have any idea on the 0-60 on the new 2004 TL, are there any estimates out there.
    I know the 2003 TL S can do about a 6.5.
    Will the 2004 be under 6.0???
  • dulnevdulnev Member Posts: 652
    If the 2004 TL has 280hp, that's already more than it should have. Then Honda V6 is already quite strained at 260hp in the 2003 TL-S. You squeeze more out of it (without supercharging) and it will be too rough. It's already a bit too loud in the 2003 TL-S. At 260hp the car is already almost too powerful for its suspension. You do know that horse power is not the only measure of a sporty car, do you?
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I would have to agree with dulnev that even the current Type S motor is a touch temperamental.
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    There is not a need for more horsepower. 260 is adequate even for a sport-luxury sedan, but people will moan if power is not increased every time a new model comes out.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Honda/Acura tends to leave a few things off the base product until the model grows long in the tooth. Then they will add the "extras". This may happen with the Type S trim.

    Take the CR-V as an example. Intro'd in 97 and went until 2000 before they gave it the SE trim. It was redesigned in 2002 and there is no SE. We expect it to return when the design is getting old and sales start to falter. Maybe 2005.

    Cars that are directly performance related get the Type S up front. The RSX and CL are good examples. Both are performance-oriented vehicles. The current TL is not. It took 3-4 years for them to add the Type S trim.

    That may happen again. It all depends on what Acura sees as the market position for this new TL. If they go after BMW and the RWD Infinitis, they may bring the Type S soon. If they take the approach that this new TL is both luxury and sport, it may not see a Type for quite a while.

    BTW, I disagree that the current TL-S version of the 3.2 feels maxxed out. Most reviews have been favorable on its mix of power an smooth operation. I never noted any undue harshness in the CL-S.
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    It is probably the rough exhaust note, rather than the engine that is less than Lexus smooth.
  • 2003tls2003tls Member Posts: 100
    Price: The 4-cylinder 2004 TSX is priced at $27K or $29K with NAVI. Do you seriously think that the MUCH bigger and more powerful 2004 TL will cost just $4K more. Every other Acura board is predicting a price of around $35K, maybe as low as $34K for non-NAVI. I'll take any bet at $31,695.

    As for power, 260 bhp in my TL Type S is not enough! Front wheel drive cars can easily handle 300 horsepower, with the right traction control and power delivery. Unfortunately, whereas the 2002-2003 TL Type S could be positioned for performance drivers, the 2004 TL has to appeal to the average near-luxury driver. That is the best arguement to wait till 2005 (2006?) for the Type S if you are any type of performance driver.
  • 2003tls2003tls Member Posts: 100
    Performance drivers like the Type S exhaust note, non-performance drivers don't. Period. Lexus cars (with the exception of the IS300) have quiet exhuast because they are not performance cars. Acura has always been sportier ("fun to drive") then Lexus. I don't think any BMW drivers complain about the sound of their exhausts.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    When I said it is temperamental I didn't mean that it is not a refined engine. When you hammer the throttle, the engine revs as smooth as anything else out there. But when the situation demands sedate driving, then I find it less than smooth. For example, throttle on/off in heavy city traffic, the tip-in could be quite abrupt. Or in light-throttle coasting, the engine would sometimes have little hiccups, which may be more the fault of the ECU.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    not for me. Give me more.

     bodble2, aren't those hickups a pain in the rear? (I usually have them at 45-50mph - very annoying, but once I had one at 80mph - not very pleasant, kind of scary)
  • melakleinmelaklein Member Posts: 1
    I am on the wait list for 2004 TL. The MSRP is starting at $33K
  • carguy58carguy58 Member Posts: 2,303
    Probably at the Honda plant in Ohio.
  • halls120halls120 Member Posts: 1
    My local dealer told my this week that they expect the new TL to arrive in September, and will have a 270HP engine. No TL-S until 2005 or 2006. He also told me that the chances for a manual transmission are dim, since the CL w/manual didn't sell well.
  • dulnevdulnev Member Posts: 652
    That MSRP of $33K is a pure speculation on the part of the dealer. They know exactly as much about pricing of 2004 TL as we do: NOTHING!
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    No mention of AWD option though. :(
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Very interesting. The "3.2" designation will be dropped. I wonder if they're going with a larger engine like say a 3.5L or just going to call the car the "TL" from now on. Doesn't look like there will be a Type S for a while either. Good info! My only concerns will be the styling and why they don't offer the HPT option on the automatic version.

    M
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