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Previous posts have reported 2001 prices of approx $26,600 (car and destination) for 2001 TL at Pohanka in VA and Tischer in Laurel, MD. In fact today in Wash Post Pohanka is advertising new 2001TL for $25,950 +$480 destination +$189 fee = $26,579 (if my math is correct). Yesterday (18 Feb) I was at Criswell Acura in Annapolis, MD. They had 34 TLs on their back lot( I counted) and what appeared to be an equal number of CLs. I would think they would be amenable to some dealing. Good luck and keep us informed of any deals you strike.
regards
Jack
Is the TL Type-S a 2002 model or 2001? When could one expect the 2002 3.2TL model? Would it be priced the same as 2001 model? Anyone using the Nav system in and around Harrisburg? Is it useful and worth the extra 2K? Any information would be highly appreciated.
I went to my local dealer in Santa Monica and they said they wouldn't have any until June. My car has been totalled and I don't want to wait that long. Some people have posted they will be getting theirs in March. Does anyone know of a dealership that is getting them early?
Thanks
boe_d@hotmail.com
The map of the Harrisburg area is ok. While I have seen some minor errors, it does contain a nice job of the major routes: 83, 11, 15, 283, 322, 81 etc.
The 2002 TL will have a minor price increase, but you should still get one for around 27,500 to 28,000. You will need to add tax to this figure. Still, I would walk out of a dealership if a final price is not UNDER 30K.
The new TL/S will be out in March. If you are considering one may I suggest you go to Apple Acura and test drive the coupe version. The new 2002 TL/S will be like that except you get 2 more doors, a 6 in dash cd, memory seats, and some other minor changes as well. Actually Acura indicates there are around 500 overall changes from 2001 to 2002. If you want one you need to get a deposit ASAP.
Best wishes!
This flashing is not a "problem". It is simply a timer that goes off every 7500 miles to remind you to perform periodic service on your car. You can reset it by pushing a combination of the trip odometer buttons (It is documented in the manual). Then in another 7500 miles, it will start to flash again.
I have been doing my own oil changes (every 4000 miles) with Mobil 1 synthetic and Honda OEM filters. After reading your posting, I remembered reading something about resetting the maint. req. light in the owners manual.
To reset the light, with the ignition off I had to press and hold the Select and Reset buttons and then turn the ignition on and continue to hold the buttons down for approx. 10 seconds.
Thanks for the input. Saved me a trip to the dealership. Zero problems with my TL in the first 12,600 miles.
The Type-s, in addition to the more powerful engine, would also have stiffer springs, firmer dampers, thicker/stiffer rear stabilizer bar, larger wheels (17" vs the 16" wheels of the TL), VSA (vehicle stability assist) etc., in addition to some other "not so obvious" differences like differences in anti-lock brakes and traction control system.
But the NAV, I would emphatically suggest that you go for it.
Later...AH
I think it would be MSRP (or very close to it) for a while, but the supply-demand equation should catch up within a few months of release, I would presume. But you should be able to get a lot of "relatively" good deals on the 2001s (which, essentially is the same car as the 2002s, minus a few doodads). If price is an important consideration, then I would suggest to grab a 2001, right around the time the 2002 release happens.
Later...AH
Pete
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Board
By the way if I put deposite I should use credit card or check, or doesn't matter.
Some quick response is highly appreciated. I need to make the decision very quickly.
Thanks a lot.
dodowolf
Apparently, the search engine here on our new site does not index numbers. If you had searched for "Acura TL-S" it should have found it. (I didn't try it, YMMV!)
To tell you the truth, I have found it a little easier - if I KNOW that what I'm looking for exists, anyway - to use the browser Search feature on the discussion list page.
That said, the Search engine is undergoing some kind of renovation, I am told. Improvements are in the foreseeable future, I do believe!
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
Some key elements that were discussed there, were the superior transmission of the TL (kickass class-exclusive 5-speed automatic vs the 4-speed auto of the ES300 lifted from the pedestrian Camry), engine (larger engine vs the ES300 borrowing its engine from its pedestrian counterpart and including variable valve timing to it), using the cheaper and inferior Macpherson strut suspension (on all 4 ends), in the ES300 vs the much more expensive and superior double-wishbones on all four ends by the Acura (incidentally the expensive double wishbones like the Acura TL are found in other more expensive Lexus models like GS300/430/SC430/LS430)....and a plethora of other reasons......go through those posts and you will know what I am talking about....
Basically, the ES300 (in spite of certain virtues), is at the end of its life cycle and it is un-fair to compare it to dynamic and mercurial competitors like the Acura 3.2TL, which has been drawing circles around the poor old ES, ever since its 1999 introduction...the ES300 is probably just ekeing out this lifecycle till the new one arrives on the scene....right now, the under-acheiving, but yet expensive ES300 is out-matched, out-classed and out-maneuvered by the kick-butt Acura...
Later...AH
http://www.auto.com/autonews/cwirh17_20000517.htm
The May survey rates Acura as the top brand for initial quality, and the ES and TL are in a tie for 3rd as models.
I agree that the TL falls short in the fake wood and dealer treatment department, but with most other criteria the TL is superior. Now compare the current ES to the new TL-S...no contest by a long shot! Later this year it will be fun to compare the new '02 ES with the TL-S.
Regarding the car sitting in the showroom, that's a judgement call. I would try to find its manufacture date and see how long it has been there and also was it used as a demo (how many miles does it have). It also never hurts to try to get the price lowered a bit. Depends how much you want the car. Personally I prefer one fresh off the truck.
hmmm, do you think that in the Lexus the entire seat is covered in leather?
carguy, I believe the new Camry and ES300 is due out for MY2002. At least thats what most people think so.
What is the cost and how are the dealers after the sale?????
Is the Navigation system worth a couple grand or are updated roadmaps a better buy????
I own a 99 Intrigue and a 96 Deville w/Northstar so you know where I am coming from..
I have just glanced over some of the postings and the ES300-Lexus offering is truly an overpriced Camary; however the buyers of the car are not performance or handling addicts like you Acura folks so comparision is a non-event and foolish. The ES buyers passed up the ugly top-of-the-line offering from Toyota called the "Avalon" If Detroit make such a car it would be laughed at; but the Asians are praised--figure that out..
I don't like Asian offerings so maybe you loyal fans can give me the upside of ownership.
Over 500 changes including the following:
17-inch rims (analagous to the CL Type S design)
260 hp @ 6000 rpm, 232 ft-lbs b/w 3,500-5,500
Larger-diameter throttle body
Dual Stage Induction
19/29 city/hwy
Larger rear stabilizer bar & shock tower than TL (std)
V-rated, all season tires
Acceration times projected at 6.3-6.4 seconds (realtime should be more similar to the CL-S's 6.6)
100 lbs lighter than the CL-Type S
the VSA skid control offered up until now only on the RL, still not on the TL
Perforated leather seating
I drove the CL-S at the dealer a week ago in anticipation of the TL-S and I wanted to drive it hard in accelerations and passing maneuvers. The engine is definitely loud, but refined. I haven't, unfortunately driven the TL as hard, so my comparison to the ES300 is not as accurate. I can say that it was louder (slightly) than my former '94 ES300 (which still purred like a kitten 'til the day she met with the Carmax undertaker). Honestly, if volume in the cabin is a big concern, the ES300 should win that game. Once again, the best way is just to go test drive 'em.
So I did .
The '02 TL & TL-S will have redesigned outside mirrors that are supposed to reduce wind noise.
I don't have the time to demonstrate with specific examples on why Lexus has ripped you poor souls out of a lot of cash for the boaty, buickish ES300....some of the things you may want to look at a bit more closely, is the frame-less windows on the ES300 (while the Acura uses full frame windows with triple weather sealing), also the use of the cheap Macpherson strut suspension on ALL FOUR ENDS of the ES300 (saves 100's of dollars for Toyota just by that ?!!!) while the Acura uses the much more expensive Double-wishbone suspension found on much more expensive Lexus cars like the GS300/GS430/SC430/LS430 (some Euro cars employ the Macpherson struts in the FRONT suspension to save some space - since space is at a premium in Europe - but definitely not a LITERAL ECONO CAR SETUP like on the Lexus ES300, where the Macpherson struts are found ON ALL FOUR ENDS), lifting of the engine (with slight modification) and transmission from the Toyota Camry V6 (again, 1000's of dollars in saved expenditure from developing a new transmission/engine ?), the glass on the rear windows of the ES300, that stick up a few inches above the windows even when all the way down (while the Acura's glass on all the 4 windows go all the way down), and then providing some doodads like a few more square feet of leather covering ?!!! and sticking small strips of "real wood" on the interiors ?!!! wow !!! You have got a fantastic deal buddy (read rip-off )!!!
The Acura saved maybe 250 dollars by using a bit of vinyl + instead of sticking small strips of "real wood", they stuck small strips of "simulated wood" !!! Wow !!! Actually, I blame only Acura for such criticisms, since after spending such a lot of money for developing this fantastic car, they tried to save a few nickels and dimes by using a few (square feet of leather + strips of wood) less than its competition.
Also, why has nobody commented that the Lexus ES300 is a compact car (EPA classification), while the 3.2TL is a mid-size car (EPA Classification) ?!!! In spite of that, why does, the lighter, smaller engined ES300 gets worse mileage than the larger engined and heavier Acura 3.2TL (19/26 for the ES vs 19/29 for the TL) ?!!!
Does the ES300 have a GPS Navigation system like the 3.2TL from Acura, EVEN AS AN OPTION ?!!! I would think that all the other Lexus cars have the Navigation system AT LEAST AS AN OPTION (except maybe the IS300?)!! I had to wait a while for my 3.2TL, for the exact color (Naples Gold Metallic) that I wanted WITH THE NAVIGATION....after having driven the car with the Navigation system, no way in hell will I make a future car purchase without a similar system....when talking of Navigation systems, the DVD based Acura system is THE BEST system available in the market now....NAV systems in Audis etc are pure junk...I drove a Hertz rental car about a year back and had a chance to use the "NeverLost" Navigation system of Hertz....talk of a POS !!! Which points out the differences between high-end NAV systems like on the Acura vs the low-end systems like the Hertz "neverlost"...the Acura system pinpoints one's location EVEN IN AN UNDERGROUND PARKING LOT/THICK FOG/PITCH DARKNESS, while the Navigation signals of the Hertz system are lost even when a tall clump of trees block the way !!!!
I switched my TL's stock tires with Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 225/55-ZR16 Ultra-high performance all-seasons, which transformed the car (equipped with the double-wishbones at all 4 ends) into a literal sport-sedan.....do you know what would have happened, if you switched the buickish ES300's tires with the Ultra-high performance Michelin tires ? It would have OVERWHELMED the poor old ES300's boaty suspension...have you observed the floatiness that you experience when you take the ES300 to higher speeds ? Want to know why ?!!! Check the suspension again..... some more square feet of leather or a few strips of wood stuck on the interior, won't keep the ES300 planted on the road like the mercurial Acura....the fact of the matter is that the Acura is a MUCH SOUNDER AUTOMOBILE....
Enough of bashing the out-dated, under-whelming, over-priced, under-performing ES300...let us cease discussing such pure rip-offs (read money in the pocket of Lexus, who must be laughing all the way to the bank !!!) and discuss the kick-[non-permissible content removed] 3.2TL...
ruski:
The Motortrend time of the 2000 Acura 3.2TL was 6.7 Secs....not 6.4Secs.... The 6.4 Secs was for the CL-s.... people at the TL site, routinely obtain about 6.38 - 6.8 secs for the stock TL (2000 model year onwards - 99's are slower), when measured with Gtech pro....Also, the Motortrend time was not only a 0-60 time, it was also a 0-30, 0-40, 0-50, 0-60, 0-70, 0-80, 0-90 and also the quarter mile.....so it is not a 0-60 figure they conjured out of thin air....In fact, during the tests on that day, the 3.2TL thrashed competitors like the poor ES300, Infiniti I-30 and the Oldsmobile Aurora V6 IN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE ACCELERATION CATEGORIES including, 0-30, 0-40, 0-50, 0-60, 0-70, 0-80, 0-90 and the quarter mile.......in other words, at no time (right off the line till reaching much higher speeds), did the others stand a chance against the kick-[non-permissible content removed] Acura, in acceleration.....I would have expected better numbers from the lighter Infiniti I-30 (which supposedly has BETTER PEAK Horsepower/Torque NUMBERS)......but the funny thing is that, you will not FEEL THE SPEED building up in the Acura....until you observe the speedometer....the engine is smooth like a turbine and has got a perfectly mated 5-speed Adaptive Sportshift transmission....
Also, Road and Track obtained 7.2Secs for the 1999 Acura 3.2TL, which, with the 4-speed transmission (like the Lexus ES300) and a non-freeflowing intake manifold, was universally considered as being about 0.50 secs slower than the 2000 3.2TL (with the 5-speed transmission and a host of intake modifications including a free-flowing intake manifold that increased low-end torque and mid-range power, even though the peak power numbers for both 99 and 00 remained the same).....so if we subtract 0.50 secs (of the 99 TL) from 7.2 Secs, we again come to 6.7 Secs (extrapolating the 99 TL's time to the 2000 TL, since R&T have not tested the 2000 TL)....so does that mean that we have got 6.7 Secs 0-60 from 2 separate sources for the 2000 TL ?!!
Later...AH
Reading the last 20 posts or so, I have a few comments ...
1. The TL/CL is indeed a dressed-up Accord. The ES300 is indeed a dressed-up Camry. Who cares? All four of them are great cars. The Lexus is marketed to a slightly different crowd ... slightly more luxurious, softer ride, less performance. I personally want the performance as did probably most of the TL/CL buyers.
2. In most cars today, leather seats really mean "leather seating surfaces," not full leather-trimmed seats. I work in the automotive seating business, and today's auto companies and their suppliers look for every penny they can save. By using leather on the seating surfaces only and using a decent imitation vinyl for the rest of the seat, a supplier/OEM can save hundreds of dollars per vehicle and still call them leather seats. (By the way ... even most leather seats are vinyl impregnated because they stand up much better over time than just plain leather!)
3. Anybody know the asking price for the TL Type S? Anybody know the release date?
Thanks,
klkrause
I also opted for our TL over the ES300. The Lexus is a great car and the Lexus service and treatment is extraordinary (our best friends have had 1992 and 1999 ES300). However, I feel that feature-for-feature, the TL is as good or better than the ES and the price difference is several $thousand less for the TL.
In terms of cabin noise, the TL is the quietest car I have owned in terms of blocking outside noise. HOWEVER, that makes the various interior creaks and clicks all the more noticeable. Basically, this has been my only complaint with our TL--there are a few interior phantom noises (plastic-against-plastic like clicks and creaks from the interior rear pillar and creaking from the drivers seat) and I hate nothing more than interior creaks and noises. We bought our son a new Accord EX6 Coupe in July and he had the same types of occasional sounds (one was traced to the trim around the central console). You would think that by now, auto manufacturers could anticipate where noises will occur at interfaces between parts and use felt or teflon tape at those locations. As an aside, the 90 Maxima that we had before the TL did not have a single interior creak or rattle for the 10 years we owned it.
Town Hall management will be reviewing what has happened here this afternoon.
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
"Revisions to the TL's exterior enhance its sporty appearance for 2002. The front end is redesigned with a more aggressive front grille, reshaped headlights, and revised badging. Fog lights are now STANDARD and the TL's taillights have clear upper lenses for a new look (i.e. euro design of the Toyota ES300). Three new exterior colors are available for 2002: Anthracite Metallic, Aegean Blue Pearl, and Eternal Blue Pearl." The 2002 will come with 16" rims vs. the 17" on the Type S. The suspension remains the same for the TL in 2002, whereas the Type S has the performance mods to make it stiffer, with a thicker anti-roll bar in the back. 2002 TL (std and Type S) will have the 6-disc in dash CD changer mated w/ the Bose five-speaker system. The Type-S will have the perforated leather, the TL will have identical seating to 2001, and the Type S will have the perforated leather steering wheel. I'll email you the stat sheet if ya'd like.